The glorious season of 2009 featuring the 2000 Guineas, The Derby, Eclopse Stakes, Juddmonte International, Irish Champion Stakes and Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe
Sea the stars did something that may never be done again. Winning the Guineas in May and going on to Win Group 1s every month and then winning the Arc at the finish his career 6 out of 6 as a 3 year old .A truly great horse one of the best ever.
Sea The Stars was a complete thoroughbred, period. Enough pace and turn of foot to win at a mile, but better the further up in trip he went. If you watch both of his wins at 12F at Epsom in the Derby and at Longchamp in the Arc, Kinane still had a handful of bridle with Sea The Stars pulling double while everything else was already full out off the bridal. This horse was a real athlete in the truest sense of the word.
Give you a funny story, my boss at the time was on holiday in Turkey, he knew I followed horses, he text me from the beach to say a guy selling sunglasses had told him a horse (in Turkish accent) for the Derby, was it any good.....? *SEEDY STAR*
My favourite flat horse also. Frankel was fantastic, but there was something bloodless about his wins at times, particularly beating the same Aiden O’Brien horse Xcelebration.
@norman smithers What has that got to do with anything? He was a horse that only ever got to the front when it mattered, at the winning post or a furlong out. He went the pace of the race and picked them off, like he did in every race! His winning time in the Guineas was faster than that of Frankel (on the same ground) if you want to mention times!
@norman smithers Again, what has that got to do with anything? I am well aware of the distance of the Guineas. Any horse can only beat what is in front of it, and Frankel is seen as the superstar, and my point is, his most spectacular performance, the one that got everyone excited was the Guineas, and in my opinion, if Sea The Stars was in that race, he would have been picked off. Sea The Stars was in trouble a long way out in the Arc, was pulling a long way out, had multiple G1 winners all around him and in front of him, but when a gap appeared, he went through it with aplomb. I think when those in the racing world start throwing superlatives around you start to pay attention. Not to mention the length of his season he had, to be that classy in the biggest race in Europe, 5 months after a long summer with 6 G1s on the trot, at all distances, I think anyone like yourself that is looking for negatives was either not on him when he was winning, or is bitter for some other reason.
@@smollyboi There is no doubt she was an excellent racehorse BUT she only ever raced in Australia so we will never know how she might have fared against the top European thoroughbreds.
@@smollyboi Great unbeaten filly who proved how good she was outside Australia here in Britain in lousy conditions and a jockey who nearly gave away the race.Winx I am sure would have been even better than that great filly. Its just a shame we didn't get to see her in Britain or Europe.
what a great Horse, but all credit to Mick the Jockey rode him brilliantly, timed everything to perfection, never got in a panic, even in the arc when he was boxed in. Must be great having that much confidence in your horse.
For me the greatest I've seen... adversity in many of his races always found a way to win but his excelleration in the arc boxed in is something else...
Would he have beaten dog shit like Youmzain as a four year old with an extra seven pounds on its back. NO ! They knew full well they ran against rubbish and cut their losses. Cowards knew Zenyatta would destroy him.
Absolute bolox ! I have a picture of Frankel on my wall thus am a massive fan but he would never have lived with the likes of Secretariat , Phar Lap and Sea Bird. Secretariat is the greatest of all time . I suggest you watch its Belmont win - small field but smashed the record that no horse has come remotely close to since.
@@simonchapman5560 look,whilst Secretariat showed enormous ability and probably was the greatest American racehorse in his time, claiming to be the best in the world you'd need a bit more than 19 starts at home. Like Frankel he raced same opposition, I would though put him above Frankel for breaking track records and non losing streaks don't really matter in the end. To claim he's world champion is typical of Americans as they're the world champions of American football as well. The difference with STS and Black caviars of the world is that they took their record overseas and won. Australia sent pharlap to America and won,so to call Secretariat the greatest the world has ever seen is a long stretch.
@@KAF128 thought you might like to view this as its probably the closest we could of ever got to see them race each other ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pfRzDsG3a70.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aMvmAsRmwqo.html
@@russe19642 Sorry but its time in the Belmont makes it without question the best of all time. No horse has come remotely close since even with massive improvements in training technology and no horse will ever beat that time ( not in my life time anyway ) . Without using the clock it is all subjective comparing different eras but with Secretariat that time is absolute proof.
I don't get caught up on who best between Sea the Stars and Frankel. I take it for what it was, 2 of the all time great horses, in same era and it was a privilege to follow their careers.
I very much doubt that we will ever see a three year old do what he did. From a mile to a mile and a half, three countries six group one's in four months. 2000 Guinneas, Derby, Eclipse, Judmont, Irish champion stakes and the Arc - unbelievable. Mick Kinane said he was never really out of second gear. It's a bit of a shame that we never really saw his absolute full potential. His Guineas was comfortably faster than Frankel's in almost identical conditions, broke the track record in the Judmont, one of the fastest times in the Eclipse, strolled the Derby and how on earth did he win from that position in the Arc? The best I've seen and I've been watching racing for over 45 years.
@@JPwhoknows The exceptional son of Sea The Stars is looking like he could be one of the best we've ever seen but he's now four years old so my point was really regarding his sire's three year old season that particular standard is not going to be challenged but I greatly look forward what else this great colt can achieve.
In my opinion,for what its worth,probably the greatest horse ever!,not ever given the recognition he deserved because he only ever done enough!,Frankle was a great horse but he'd never had live with sea the stars!,look at he's fractions,the fact that sea the stars is rated 140 the same as harbinger is ridiculous!,the handicap seems to place so much importance on how far a horse wins by just tells my how little he knows about the intelligence of a horse!. Its just such a shame that he was retired as a 3 year old,in fact I think it was sacrilege!,he would only have improved with age!.
but it goes further back. Urban Sea is great, and so is her dam Allegretta, who has brought King's Best and several excellent broodmares. And Allegrettas full sister Alya is pretty influental too. It's arguably the best dam line in the world.
Why did the owner retire this stallion so early at three years old??He can still compete for another three years!!I noticed the earlier wins of his career was won with a lot of spare energies.
Donkey derby horses in comparison. Sea the stars had no equal. Frankel was a carthorse pulling a wagon if judged against Sea The Stars. Frankel was never asked to pull out all the stops or to dig deep. He was over protected, whereas Sea The Stars was given objectives and he blasted through everything thrown at him. Anybody who mentions Frankel in the same breath as Sea the Stars are deluded, biased because they loved his trainer or more than likely know nothing about horse racing
@@wheretheresawilltheresaway7752 oh yah definetly would have beaten mastery and the horse that came second to him called kite wood, sea the stars beat him by about 14 lengths going away at Epsom
Both great horses...Frankle was more exciting, Sea the stars more the bare minimum....In a fight tho I'd have Sea the stars...But the best maybe yet to come imo Baeed is very special and could eclipse both those legends
Frankel for a lot of his races got a pacemaker…I feel without him having a pacemaker in a lot of his races he wouldn’t of been unbeaten. Baaeed will never be beat imo, absolute machine.
@@colintipton1740 Michael Kinane said that Frankel would have played into his hands, the faster Frankel went the better for STS. Also, Johnny Murtagh said "Sea The Stars first, Frankel second" and here is the video to back it up at 19.07 when he talks about the two Race Horse's ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-X5uHtfWF0G4.html
Trying to compare great horses who never actually raced against each other is a largely pointless exercise. Also, it is not necessary to make a case for one horse by denigrating another. I revere both Sea The Stars and Frankel, the latter being undoubtedly the greatest miler I've seen and I'm sure he would have smashed STS over that particular trip. But here's the thing - STS won over a mile like Frankel, then stepped up to 2400m to win the Derby, then came back in trip to win three of the crown jewel events over 2000m, then went back up to 2400m to win the Arc in testing conditions. I'm not criticising Frankel's connections for not taking their chances over 2400m, as I can understand they didn't want to risk his unbeaten record. But I rate STS achievements as slightly superior because he won over a wider range of distances and it takes a special horse to win step out straight from the Guineas and win over the Derby trip. We can speculate till kingdown come, trot out Timeform ratings, etc - but the bare fact is that STS stepped up to 2400m and did it, and Frankel didn't. [FWIW, I think Nijinsky's achievements were even greater due to his Triple Crown + Irish Derby + King George + plus nearly winning the Arc despite being not being anywhere near his best].
Mick Myers, Whether you agree with Timeform or not you are wrong. Here is why: Sea the Stars raced in won 9 races; total prize money four and a half million pounds. Frankel fourteen lesser races total prize money just over half of STS or two point nine million. That is a more definitive and realistic assessment of the oppositions qualities relative to both horses. Frankel behind Sea the Stars by a long way.
I totaly disagree...STS 10lbs better... and I win money longterm /...Post dosent...He won 2 classics..an ARC ..smashed yorks trak record...a judmonte international...Frankel beat nothing with rubish clocks.in poor season....You are an amuter SIR like racing post...There is no way you make money longterm on HOSSES.
Dancing Brave failed in the Derby, Nijinsky failed in the Arc, Mill Reef failed in the guineas, Shergar would never have won a guineas but fair play he came 4th in the St Leger. Sea the Stars the greatest ever and his times prove it beyond any doubt 👌
Sea the stars was better than Frankel. Even though Frankel achieved higher timeform figures he was left unproven with unfinished business! While Sea the Stars won Guineas, Derby etc 🌟 ✨
No great horse but Frankel was left them all behind . For sheer excitement he didn't just nearly win but at greater length. Frankel 14 wins Sea the Starts 8 no competition
Horses have different styles of winning Sts only ever done enough but had plenty left in the tank put him in a g2 he would win the same way so your point is pointless
sea the stars beat delegator form suspect marks 5/10. sea the stars beat fame and glory form suspect marks 6/10 .sea the stars beat RVW an average horse marks 6/10 .sea the stars beat a good horse in mastercraftsman marks 8/10 sea the stars just beat fame and glory again marks 6/10 sea the stars beat youmzain a perrennial runner up marks 7/10 . dancing brave would have beat this lot by miles and wupped sea the stars over any distance .
But he always idled in front. He was never the type of horse to win by five or ten lengths. The suspicion would be that had he come up against even better horses, he still would have won by a length or two. I'd hazard a guess he was at least the equal of Dancing Brave.
@@wheretheresawilltheresaway7752 Any horse that can win all those races in one season (Guineas, Derby, Eclipse, King George, Arc etc) is clearly quite exceptional (and let's not forget Dancing Brave was beaten twice as a 3yo). Sea The Stars could probably have gone even faster if tested by better opposition, he was a classic 'idling in front' horse......could well have found another gear if needed.
@@ronaldobrien6870 i hear all that but his form was average and your only guessing about how good he might have been. dancing brave was beaten twice but we all know why that was ,so cheap shot pal.
@@wheretheresawilltheresaway7752 You're assuming that if Sea The Stars had come up against better horses that year, he wouldn't have been able to accelerate past them - I'm suggesting he would have, he would have found another gear. Not denigrating Dancing Brave at all, he was quite outstanding - probably more flashy than Stars with his turn of foot. Definitely the best horse of the 1980s.
Most overrated horse ever . Not ONE horse in that Derby field won for the rest of the season. Beats a handicapper in Delegator . Beat the not so great Rip van Winkle and Youmzain twice who didnt win for 4 1/2 years ( recieving 7 pounds ) and Masterclassman ( really ) Didnt go to Breeders Cup because they knew Zenyatta would beat it. Its form does not tie in . It was the best of a terrible bunch on 3 year olds. To be a champion they have to race aged four and give the weight to the three year olds like Frankel did. Frankels fom tied in with the magnificent Goldikova through Canford Cliffs both of whom would have destroyed Sea the Stars over a mile.
Rip van winkle won at Royal ascot Fame and glory irish Derby who also bt Nathaniel 2yrs later. Mastercraftsman irish guineas Debussy. Arlington million you should really do your research. Between Frankel and Sts who was the highest rated horse either bt that's right rip van winkle. You say why didn't Sts go to the breeders Cup? At least Sts ran in different countries can the same be said about Frankel simple no he was spoon fed his wole career
@@rodneymckee8431 i must have read incorrectly so apologies. that said STS still the most over rated horse of all time as proven by your list of erm ' legends ' Rip van Winkle , Mastercraftsmen ' Seriously ? No mention of Youmzain who STS beat in Arc recieveing 7 pounds. Frankel raced as a four year old giving weight . that is what real champions can do .
@@simonchapman5560 Roderic oconner. excelabration dubai dream. Zoffany. farhh to say they where average would be a understatement yes he bt Canford cliff who was retired due to a injury in the race good horse that's it the 3 best horses he bt St nic. Nathaniel and cirrus des aigles meet Frankel over 1m2 they where best known as stayers there winning over 1m4 up. That has to be the most ridiculous statement I've heard about what makes a true great. If going by the way you think. Horses like ZARKAVA. American pharaoh. Justify. Kingman. Golden horn. secretariat another can't go down as a true great get real. He's a true champion if the owner and trainer had of at least tried Frankel over 1m4 and brought him to breeders cup instead they took the easy option every time
