Selling The Tesla & Saving Money Using Advanced Man Maths! 

I think the cost and hassle of having to buy and sell every few months would put me off.

You clearly enjoy trading your cars, but for many of us it's an emotional/anxious transaction. However, I really like your man maths approach. Keep it up EVM.

I love having new (to me) cars, but hate the process of buying and selling cars.

Keep the Tesla, it has the best charge network by far. (and I don't even have an electric car 😅)

If you keep it and run it till it dies, you'll save more in the long term, better than giving car sales people a cut every time.

I’m going to pick up a long range Tesla model 3 around 3 years old. Just so cheap now with low mileage.

Hi EVM, every time you change cars it costs money. Very few people make money flipping cars, miles added always add to depreciation, but a Model 3 should last several hundred thousand miles.

Man maths deserves a man answer... I dare you to do it!

Interestingly, what does the boss at home think!

The downsides are the actual amount you can sell it for. Going with an older car obviously makes this far easier to go direct to the second hand purchasers, rather than the dealers. Higher prices are less likely to attract as many diect purchasers. An interesting idea but will very much depend on getting a super deal in the first place.

Depending on how frequently you change, you're essentially playing a used car dealer in your spare time. If that sounds like fun, go for it - there's not a large amount of risk if you are buying sensible secondhand cars, and you know the release schedule of new stuff so you can avoid messing it up that way. And if you have a rainy day fund of a couple of grand in case you end up on the wrong side of a deal, it's an interesting idea. If you really wanted to gamify it, you could see if you can trade up over time to end up in something super nice (though I suggest that probably involves taking more risk). It sounds like a lot of hassle to me, but I hate selling cars - I'd be happy to watch you doing it though. :)

Hi Evm, I have done this for years. Everybody, Everybody thinks Im mad. But, I like the process, the chase of buying a car at a good price and then selling before it loses too much. You know, its about research. It can be a pain in the arse, my missus hates it, she worries what the neighbours or our friends think. I dont. I have made money on some and lost on others of course but no more than buying new and keeping it. Ive had a lot of fun too. I know the car buying and negotiating process better than the dealers sometimes, and know how far I can push, sometimes not at all. I say if you dont mind the process do it. Bon chance mon ami.👍

Like the idea but it depends solely on your ability to buy at a good price and sell at a similar good or better price.

Model S with free suer charging would be my first go to, if its about saving money you also need to consider the cars that are the most efficient, so Kona / Nero etc...

From a content creation standpoint it’s a great idea. The biggest pain will be the constant buying and selling however that’s not such an issue if you enjoy the process. I’m tempted to do something similar with my model 3 lease coming to an end. The easy answer would be to go for a 21 model 3 sr however I do like the idea of experimenting 🤔

Have done those kind of miles pre COVID it was hell after while, with the amount of time waiting in car. Thankfully now fully remote.

Man maths makes sense, plus you get content for your channel too boot. Biggest downside is time and hassle each time you get another car

I've always contrived not to have to sell privately because I find the prospect daunting. Stick me behind any counter, shop or pub and I can give you all the spiel and sell coals to Newcastle. Absolutely no idea how to go about selling a car, which I'm sure you must find extraordinary but if you could possibly do an in depth video about how to go about selling a car, ev obvs, from start to finish, I for one would find it very helpful. Not quite sure how I've managed to get through my long life in such ignorance. I think we always had a fair and decent local garage with whom it was just easier to chop in the car for another used one and have all the paperwork done. Then we had a small windfall again chopped in the old one and bought new, had that for ten years until a small accident wrote it off last year and we got our first ev. We'd planned to make the move later this year which would have been perfect for affordability but, no, its us, so we got forced into buying at absolute top price. We got a lovely car, Ioniq 38kWh in that beautiful blue which has utterly spoiled us for anything else so not in a hurry to sell it. However we dont want to let it get too old before we do sell it for similar reasons to those you listed. Hope you think thats a worthy topic for a video Andy, I for one would greatly appreciate your advice. 👍

With inflation the cost of the repeated car purchases will slowly creep up. You would be better off just running yours into the ground. Good content as well. You can show what the M3 is capable of in terms of long term use and mileage.

ENiro 4+ mate. Get JP to get one at auction for a good price. They are a great used buy just now because of the newer model NiroEV.

That sounds silly. That’s why I started watching 👀 you

Buy second hand you have no idea how it’s been treated. One bad car and your plan dies. Keep the known good car until it falls apart

MG5, MG4, E-Niro, Kona. Plenty more out there. Sounds like a plan, but Mrs 1st & hope for the best. Example MG5 4,100 miles 2022 £17K (leeds mg)

As already said you’re going be spending a lot of time buying and selling and with added pressure of price changes. If you go newer end of the market you even have things like new model releases to upset previously stable prices.

The MG5 is excellent value used with some low mileage examples around £14k and with a range of approx 180-210miles. Has a lot of kit for the money and decent warranty. Even the newer shape that has not been as successful can be had for similar.

Everyone other than you should keep it.. Do it for the channel!

Polestar2 dropped like a rock recently and quite a nice car

Not the sort of thing I did, I am retired now but during my working life I always moved near (within 10 - 20 minutes drive ) to where I worked, you can move for less than 10k. Save hours of driving, fuel, service etc and get loads of extra hours with the family and spare time, no brainer for me. Best for me was not having to get up at silly o'clock to play with the traffic. Plus you are not clogging up the roads.

Literally just bought replacement ev today. Changing the 2020 Kona EV for a 2022.... Drum roll.... Kona EV! Can't beat over 300 mile range for the money.... Very cheap these days. Managed to do 38k a year in the old one! 🤯 Was tempted with an old Model S but insurance is £1200 compared to £500 for the Kona, and part cost look a bit ruinous in the Model S.

Definitely the way to go just from the content point of view, more and more motorists are going to be buying used EV's and knowing which offers the best value in terms of battery degradation, car insurance and depreciation is going to be invaluable.

I can not remember when I last sold a car, my last two vehicles had been insurance write offs, and no neither was my fault.

Ioniq 5 around £25k looks great value. Bigger car but very nice. Even an ioniq 38kwh - still amongst the absolute best in terms of efficiency and comes with a 5 year warranty. Could pick up the premium SE model for 12-13k.

Blimey your Carbon footprint must be enourmous. So much driving and wasted electricity. I work in IT (from home), use the e-scooter in town and rarely use the car.

Why don’t you lease? Loads of great deals on EV’s on LeaseLoco etc. at the moment 🤔

Sounds like constant depresiasion anxiety doing that plus you'll miss the supper charger network

There are two things about Man Maths that make it a perfect solution; 1) On the face of it they always seem entirely logical 2) Somewhere in the calculation there is a massive floor in the reasoning. As long as you ignore or don't look too hard for item 2 you are home and dry. Go for it!

I was going to suggest a Skoda Enyaq - seen many for only £16k (edit: That amount was wrong. I plead failing memory and stupidity). So, instead, I will fall back to my usual favourite and suggest you get a MG5 - or any MG really. An MG4 is within the price range you mentioned.

It’s a thought. But for every car change you will incur more depreciation, more uncertainty as to its condition, more insurance costs as well as the time time pressures and hassle of finding and buying the replacement. You could sell your Tesla, and replace it with a lfp SR with a more resilient battery or long range to be sure of winter mileage.. Keeping your m3 is the least hassle option, you know the car, and if you never sell don’t need to worry about depreciation which only really affects you when you want to sell. Just put aide 2k a year for bills and at the end of time, have a nice holiday with the remainser

I do love the car change man maths Couple of tyres / service / spend a bucket of money :-) The thoughts of private sales are painful mind. How do you do payment when you sell cash or bank transfer ? 18k is a lot of cash

Its a good idea in my opinion as you can give viewers your day to day driving experience in difference cars, one of which may be something they are thinking of buying

Sounds like you need a diesel 😂

Men!!! do find a reason to change cars every time 🙂and I suppose this is one such reason to get approval from your better half as well. A big gamble to save money, but used markets don't operate as efficiently as we may estimate. A bad purchase can knock out the benefits considering lack of EV specialist garages you can hardly find as you had mentioned in your previous videos.

EV's: You lease new, buy used. It's up to you if you want to keep it once the battery warranty is gone.

Not just man maths, this is quantum level man maths.

I think the only point I was thinking might be a stress is having to change insurance details if they charge you a flat fee for a change, but I guess that might only be 4x £25 per year or something like that, and VED.

Good idea - But the problem of flipping cars every few months, comes with a LOT of unknown variables. Keeping the model 3 is a better known outcome with less risk I think.

I Believe most Tesla Model S and X before 2017 had transferable Free SuperCharging.. with your high mileage, how much could you save?

I bought a 78k Model 3 from Tesla a year ago for £24k and it's now on 93k. I will be keeping it until it dies I think, this is my passion car. Happy to do the maintenance, fuel savings pay for that.

Used EV market still seems a bit volatile so that adds a risk into your man maths. Ultimately i like risk and change because I've got a 'you only live once' attitude. That being the case I'd go for the swap quickly option. You've got a safety net there in that you just stop the project on a car you like if it becomes too much hassle.

If you don't mind the hassle of near constant car shopping and selling, then go for it! It will obviously be good content for your channel. On the other hand, no EV is as good as a Tesla 😊

Excellent rationalisation lesson. But If you like buying cars, go for it.

Some advanced man maths. Create an LTD company for the RU-vid business. The business can they buy/lease an EV with tax incentives and then it can give it to you as a company car. BIK would only be 2%.

I'd be a bit worried about a Tesla out of warranty because in the event of battery or drivetrain failure it is effectively written off given the lack of an independent repair network. Polestar 2 or Mégane E Tech?

If you buy other EVs, your dealing with a less safe, less fun, worse charging experience, worse performing, worse software etc car. Tesla really is something special.

Go for it.

In theory it makes sense. In practice though, if you get unlucky with one car and require some repairs then you will spend more money. With so many cars you are buying at a bargain price, you might end up buying one or two with issues that are not easy to spot in a test drive and then get stuck. So many examples of this on RU-vid...

The risk is that you buy a bargain that then needs lots of mechanical or electrical work done after running it for a few weeks: suspension, bodywork, brakes, OBC, AC unit, heater, etc.

Would you save money by buying through the Eco Cars auction service? Your detailing skills would bring a grade 1 or 2 up to top spec for selling value.

Remember it’s not just miles. There’s a big difference between 1 owner and 2 owners. Especially on a relatively low mileage EV. Why didn’t they want it any more? What’s wrong with it?

I get the maths, I've done it myself and still do it with some tech items, such as phones. Wouldn't say it saves money, but if you can experience something different / newer / better and it costs no more, why not? However, it only works IF you can a good example of the car you want at a bargain price, at the time you want it. Will obviously help massively if you can overlap the buying / selling, i.e. not relying on sale of a car to buy the next one. Every 3 months sounds like too much hassle for me, but i dont run a car based RU-vid channel 😁

That was man maths fields medal worthy.

Sounds like you want to tap up some manufacturers to run each car for six months as a long term test then rinse and repeat with no cost per year!

Surely the psychological 100000mile barrier for used car buyers is irrelevant on an EV . If I was buying a used EV I’d be basing its desirability on how much warranty it’s got left, not how many miles it’s done. The used EV market is far too volatile right now to be swapped and changing every few months. ZEV mandate targets have shifted the used EV market, many main dealers (legacy) are only interested in selling new and don’t want used EVS.

Never underestimate “woman maths”. The one that brings you back down to earth and makes you realize that after several months you “don’t get your money back” if you sell it at the same figure you bought it for. She’s the first one to let you into the little secret that the statistics blurted out on the telly by the usual rabble of politicians that inflation is at 2% really means the shopping bill has doubled since then …

Interesting maths, I'd say if youll enjoy the game of constantly shopping about and trying something different every few months then give it a go as long as you're happy you might not save anything if the market moves agaist you. You are also in a uneque position having driven most models before to not get stuck with something you hate

From watching your last video a discounted MG 4 , 5 or HS and sell at 6 months

IMO I think you are really wanting to change your Model 3 for a Highlander as it seems so much better 😎

see R symonds recent video with his ompany m3 LR with 100000 miles and also James from james and kate with a taxi model 3 with 200000 miles. i sold a zoe last year for 8500 from a delaer and just bought a 22 zoe battery owned for 3500

Need to buy and sell privately as the dealers need at least £1000 profit on each sale. Stick to cars with 5/7 year warranty ( Kia/ Hyundai) and low to medium miles traded privately .

Absolutely, go for it! 🚗

Meanwhile, I'm driving an 6yo EV with over 100k miles, and plan to run it into the ground for another 100k, so resale value is irrelevant. I bought it used w 82k miles and $325/mo loan payments. It'll be paid off this summer. Given what I was paying for gas, in just 2 more years it will have paid back the loan on fuel savings (man math). After that, every month it's still running is money in the bank. At that point the resale value is meaningless - whatever I could get back for it will still result in a new autoloan for 5-6 years.. Or I can continue running the car into the ground for another 5-6 years for practically free. And fundamentally, when you trade in you're just passing on all the savings that you've earned to someone else buying your used vehicle. Meanwhile, the whole argument about trading in a car at around 100k was based on gas power train life expectancy of 150k miles.. When EVs have a powertrain life expectancy of >300k miles.. the whole math behind the process changes. Gas cars get traded at around 75k miles because that when the warranties expire and power train mechanical problems start appearing.. When does an EV with a 300k mile power train life expectancy hit mid life and repair issues start becoming a common issue? 150k miles? 200k miles? What powertrain issues? The battery? That's known to last out to 250k miles reliably. The motor? That's rated for >500k miles. The power electronics? also rated for over 300k miles.. So realistically, what is there to reliably start failing before 250k miles? the seats? And if an EV has 2-3 times the operating life of a gas vehicle.. why trade it when it's just getting broken in? Is there a new EV whose features are so advanced that your current EV is obsolete? (If that were the case.. who are you selling what amounts to your iPhone 5 to, or is it just getting sold for scrap?) TLDR: don't evaluate the trade-in timelines for an EV the same way you do for a gas car.

Is registration that cheap in the UK or just temporary discount for EVs?

For normal people it isn’t that easy in the private market selling and EV, especially right now with so many used EVs available and the used market demand still growing

Saving money is . Buying a Mercedes diesel new in 1998 and still running like a Swiss watch today in 2024👍

For once I somewhat agree here... Indeed you don't want an EV that's over 100k miles and out of battery and drive train warranty. A diesel is still a teenager in those numbers... For that mileage, get a diesel.

I have a model Y long range and plan on driving it until it disintegrates. I think you’ll get a lot more than 250k miles out of it.

buying a car every 6 months is a bit mad. the amount of work you have to do, to do it. you have to find the car, go see it or a load until you find the right one. you have to replace insurance and look at all the insurance company quotes. inform DVLA for road tax. the amount of time doing this is going to be hours of your time you can be with your family, but instead looking for another car. May be the better Math is Keep the tesla until it goes to the scrap yard. if you spend 30K and you keep it 10 years then cost is 3k a year. but we all know Tesla and electric cars last longer. 30K for 15 years 2k a year. renting or leasing any car will cost more than that.

You could give Eco cars, Orkney (Jonathan Porterfield) your requirements and let them do the legwork and get you one from auction at not much more than trade price?

As you write about cars why not keep this on as a project to document its niggles as it ages and dies.

Im in same boat with a '21 Eniro I got @ 12mths old with 5k Mls now has 75k Mls, it'd make €20k now & in 12mth it'll have over 100k Mls & no warranty, what to do???? Gave €37k for it & have saved bout €8k so not bad depreciation really. Great car apparently the newer ones aren't as good MY at current price tempting but suspension bit hard...

This is a well worn path and I don't think there is a definitive answer as there are so many variables. It is undeniable the those who are closer to the industry and more experienced will be able to get better deals and if you are trading in relatively new-ish vehicles you are likely to avoid much of the servicing and repair cost. Against that you have to factor in inflation (your recent resales may be less profitable than they look due to recent rises in inflation), crystal ball gazing for future values, luck - or lack of it and can you honestly be assed to go through this every 6 months. We often try to convince ourselves on best outcome scenarios when the more realistic view is marginal. You may save some money but I bet you won't notice it. It will just get lost in the day to day spending. If you're going to do it, do it because you want to. Life's too short!

I see the man maths, and where other folk really do not enjoy the process of changing cars obviously you do and it would provide content for RU-vid. Perhaps one aspect that would be out of your control is market conditions and how they impact prices. 12 months ago there were waiting lists for many new cars (especially eV's) in recent months prices have tumbled. Look at the discounts being offered on many new registration EV's,

So, doing "micro trading" with cars instead of stocks and forex? Trying to time the market? Or, doing the same as practically every small autotrader or "house flipper"? These are normally fulltime jobs, though, so unlikely to be a sustainable model for a long time as a "side hustle". Continuing with the stock market analogy, you incur the 8 grand loss only if you sell (the Model 3). Maybe it's more practical to deliberately set aside on a regular basis an amortization sum and use it for a new car payment when the Model 3 must be really scrapped.

The buying and selling would bother me but it seems like you like it. It would put you in a position to purchase a new amazing EV with say a solid state battery, since those are always 2 years out. Every 2 years you can just say you have a 2 year plan to get the solid state battery EV.

Versus a 14 year old Volvo with 170,000 miles on the clock together with a 24kWh Nissan Leaf… neither “worth” anything and so depreciation is also zero

5hr daily commute!!! 😮

yeah it's a no brainer really. If i had this channel id have been doing that already

This is a really interesting discussion so let me throw my tuppence worth in. If you hold on to this car that you are driving surely you lose NOTHING ( other than the normal amount of money in driving a car like replacing tyres, paying for charging etc). If you sell it you lose money in advertising it. You lose money in depreciation. You lose money and time running around looking at other cars to buy ( but that’s something you seem to like doing). So if it was me, I would lose nothing and run this car. But I suspect you will sell it and lose money because you like to buy and sell cars plus it will give you loads of content for RU-vid. You seem to be a risk taker (which I’m not) which is why I love your Great channel. Prove me wrong and sell the car and change every couple of months and let’s see how much you lose

A good car would be my mg4 se long range with 12k miles 5 and a half years warranty for 17995 and just serviced too bargain

depreciation isn't linear; keep for another 6+ years

If you applied this method to classic cars instead, you'd make money every time you sold one.

22 plate ioniq 5 with 17k miles £21'500 on auto trader !

In theory you effectively become a car trader and “should” be liable to pay tax on your sales. Personally I wouldn’t buy a car from someone who has only owned it for a few months (alarm bells suggesting issues with vehicle). Might as well lease. And incidentally, you sound a bit like Paul Daniels, not a lot! Thanks for your videos.

Need to get rid of them before the degradation kicks in.

Instead of the messing about of selling every few month, why not a short term lease ?

I do 100 miles a day, mainly motorway I need to tow a trailer and do a run to France four times a year We do weekend breaks in the countryside Ev's just don't work to me. I'll stick to my 9yr old BMW 3 series Diesel estate. 50MPG, no finance It's not just age and mileage that will present owners of 6yr old EV's with a bigger issue than the traditional car depreciation curve, it's the challenge of finding a big enough market of people who are looking at buying an EV with 90,000 miles on it, thats out of dealer warranty and has the nagging fear of battery degradation especially when you consider that they may be buying it with a view to keeping it for maybe 3yrs when it could be up to 110-120k miles and who are THEY going to sell it to then... THATS the dilemna for 2nd owners of EV''s right now when it comes to their own prospective sell-on value at the end of their ownership

Yeah......keep it ....!!!!

Keep the car. Better the devil you know.

You will miss the Tesla, but it's a good decision for content

Selling and buying a car every 6 months sounds like an absolute ball ache...