In this video Ryan Coach’s Vivian on how to help communicate better with her mare about contact, leg pressure, and lead changes. For more info visit Rosehorsemanship.com To join my patreon page go to www.patreon.com/ryanrosehorsemanship
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This horse looks stiff and dragging and slow in the back legs and CONSTANTLY swishes tail (just flies or?). It's like it's own butt seems too heavy for it when walking. It's not uncommon for vets to miss pain issues, she should consult with a gait and physio expert on this horse IMO. Plus this horse seems always a bit mincing with the back foot falls. It never makes any bold moves with those back feet. Compared to the front legs which seem nicely bouncy.
Nothing like a sensitive mare to call you out 🤣 Vivian, I've been there and i wish i had seen your video sooner. This horse is going to make you an even better rider, and I'll she ends up one of the best horses you ever have!
I think this young lady has finally met a horse that will teach her soft hands. I had my reins taken from me when my hands got hard and I deferred to the strong arm tactics. Sometimes my spurs and my reins were taken away by the coach. Vivian is at a crossroads and she has her lovely mare to thank for her development and a wonderful coach to assist.
I don't think she was hard necessarily, she has soft hands, she just has a bad habit of fixing the feet with outside hands half halts. She's doing too much for the horse and managing her with the bit instead of giving her room to choose the right thing.
@@jmwhorsemanship I know you’re trying to be nice but I don’t think that is helpful. The young lady does not have soft hands. She is strong arming the mare and the mare isn’t having any of that. It will take awhile for the mare to trust her again. This is why they didn’t use a western bridle for this demo.
@@amandak3198 I disagree. I have seen trainers who have great timing and don't manage their horses, but their hands are hard. They develop horses that are afraid of the bridle and tend to be overactive. I have also seen amateurs or lower level trainers who manage their horses constantly and are soft, but don't understand how to let some things go in favor of focusing on their current goal. They create horses that are either behind the bridle, or become a little numb to the bridle. These are two very different things, and I have seen both in enough cases to recognize which side of the line most people fall on. I've also seen people who did both of these things, those are what I consider just bad hands in general. These type of people are the ones that cause the worst problems: horses that rear up. Mind you, a sensitive horse may resort to this behavior because of either of the main two problems I see as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a hundred ways to be wrong without being hard with your hands. It's my opinion that calling all hands that are incorrect hard can make people be too soft instead of addressing the actual problem, which is often times just managing the feet (which can be done with soft hands) or not holding and waiting for the correct response to release.
Many riding school teachers, in the early education of their students, unfortunately teach riders they are to help lift the horse into a canter while also insisting on a consistently vertical head set (the “frame” being paramount). I think this is where defensive problems can begin for horses and riders. Vivian’s a great student and rider to put herself out there as she’s wisely determined to learn through a sticky spot. She obviously cares about her riding and the horses she works with. She’s definitely a valuable asset to the horse world. 😎👍
Horses are mentally and emotionally fragile... Great statement, and what a good thing to keep in mind as we try and teach them something new. To stay aware of their state of mind.
A big life lesson for this girl.....her lovley pony is reacting to a heavy strong rider...simple. Getting your ego out the way and learning the lessons 'of life' as Ryan beautifully suggests is the only way forward to become a graceful soft rider...Ryan has a magic way of positive encouragement of both horse & Rider....wonderful stuff
Absolutely! Vivian is obviously a skilled rider but I can see some ego coming through there. Thank you Ryan for making corrections in a thoughtful yet firm way so that she can continue to improve her skills. What a great session!
Hi tracydreelin . I just turned in to this and Ryan,s training techniques. I’m not a horse owner . I use to train semi drivers . And Ryan has shown me the mistakes I made teaching drivers . It’s absolutely fascinating to watch. And I agree with your comments. I know it’s not the same as horse training. But Ryan,s communication with the riders I’d great .
Yeah. The trot is already not looking good, the canter is bad too, and then the horse is punished for being too out of balance to change lead? This woman shouldn't train horses, she is not at the level to do it.
Vivian, thanks for letting us follow along your lesson. Don’t feel offended by some of these comments. Trust me, the folks with the meanest comments are the worst riders.
This is a great education. Ryan is clear with directions for humans and horses. Vivian, you are great at what you do and you would not have asked for Ryan’s help if you didn’t want to have more success.
I just buried my "Doc" he didn't speak English but, he understood it. He was so bomb proof the FBI would've hired him. A perfect gentleman. He taught me how to treat horses. He was only 26 and I rescued him 8 years ago from a less than ideal situation. He could've taught horses to be gentle. I let him adjust to kindness and he responded beyond measure. Thanks for your videos and God's peace to all
I am so sorry for your loss, it’s the hardest part of sharing our lives with these wonderful creatures. You gave Doc the best life as long as you could and your memories will give you comfort in time.
I can relate to her having problems with keeping the soft hands. There just have to be enough scary run-offs or bucks to make the hands even more "prepared" for what might come - so they do the little twitch to make sure the horse "stays imaginary collected" - but it will end up having the opposite effect, since you don't trust the horse to do what you expect - but hope for it to happen. And it will definitely bother a sensitive horse - and they will act out when the person on the back is giving them multiple aids that isn't making sense for the horse. Vivian is brave for putting herself out there. This is such an important lesson for so many riders. She's definitely not the only rider out there not being aware of what aids she's using. Everyone has been there in one way or another.
Even when the mare is resting when Ryan was on her and she put her head down to brush her front legs he did absolutely nothing and you could see how relaxed she become. When Vivian was on her and the mare did the same thing Vivian’s hands were busy and the mare never really relaxed.
Ryan, your compassion and patience are extraordinary! it was a blessing to see Vivian(and the mare) move from frustration to a place of possible partnership. All the best to them. Very pretty Appy mare.
The worst part about learning anything new is when you first start and you are aware of how much you don't know and how unskilled you are at it. It can feel very discouraging. I am learning to understand/speak Japanese (Writing/reading I'll do later). I'm not doing it the conventional way, with language classes, because that's not how native Japanese people talk, so I am mostly learning by hanging out with Japanese native speakers and training my ears/mouth/brain through observing and practicing with them. I am wrong a lot, lol. But rather than focus on how embarrassing it can be to fail spectacularly at something I'm just starting off on, I try to put myself in the shoes of the Japanese people who are surprised and thrilled that a native English speaker would think to ask them for help understanding their language. The teacher roots for the student to succeed, so the student should root for the student to succeed, as well. Every master was a novice at some point. You don't get better at something by _not_ doing it. Remember that!
Basic dressage in a western saddle! Love it! Those basics shown here are so important! True dressage takes it to a much higher degree but the basics make a terrific dif of how a horse and rider perform! Some maybe upset by my remarks but I really like to see what is being taught here!! Every horse and rider need to work like this! Some do it naturally and it can be dif to put into words!
Love this video. All three of you giving it so much try. There is enough info in this to watch numerous times. Love your diagnostics Ryan. I hope we’ll get to see how Vivian and Diamond are doing later in the journey. Thanks for sharing so much of your philosophy in bringing a horse along.
Sometimes riders separate legs and hands creating a disconnect in how a horse performs. I think that this gal is doing that and not realizing it. Her horse does not have any idea about giving her mouth and breaking at the poll; this causes unbalanced movement. Great that you are riding her horse so she can see the dif! Legs and soft hands! Glad she is open to learning more.....will really move her forward with this horse and any others she is workng!
I’m no expert, but have you had any bodywork done on her hips and back end? She looks like she could be tight through the psoas (hocks together), her back isn’t relaxed and swinging and she doesn’t seem comfortable. Maybe you have addressed this already and it’s a case of training or she’s just one of those cranky horses, but I’d be inclined to get a body worker out to check for tightness and pain as well. If she’s in pain, she’s not going to want to canter and do lead changes.
Thank you for posting this longer format lesson. The riding and conversations were intensely interesting. I can see how challenging the training issue is for this talented pair. Ryan's teaching is captivating. I hope to see an update in the future. Best of luck to all!
I loved hearing Ryan say he doesn't lope a young horse right away - ha ha because I'm working towards starting my blm mustang..and it is true. let's wait and get the understanding of leg, bit etc a good base 1st..Never thought about that - but the 1st day you learn to drive a car no one would put you behind the wheel of a semi..so this makes awesome good sense..thanks for that tidbit..
One of the best videos. I’m also appalled by people giving her crap. She’s not a green rider - I am, but we all develop habits, and none of us are perfect, so it’s mean and bullshit to call someone out who literally asked for more training. Completely and utterly rude. Good on her. I learned a few things even in my very green era. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Oh my goodness the lack of training in other departments is what was causing that conflict of interest situation for sure thanks for sharing your rides guys that's great!
Thank you Vivian for taking this lesson and letting it get put out there for everyone to see. I am also quick to get into my hands and be too strong. My mare is also super sensitive and calls me out on my bullsh-t. lol. If I don't fix my own bad habits, she's going to kick my butt.
Thank you so much. My horse and I are no way near lead changes but my mare braces like Diamond. Now I have some tools in the toolbox to work with her on the bracing.
308 having really good posting position helps a lot when you know your timing of elevation and de-elevation your upbeat of which lead you're on for you and the horse simultaneously stays more congruent which allows changes to become more congruent
Is it possible that she is in some sort of pain or distress while trying to switch leads? For a horse that seems to be very kind ad willing in other ways, something physical may be going on. I'm watching the mare in the video and her tail is flicking constantly, which is a sign of some sort of discomfort, her head is constantly moving, which to me is a sign that she is not relaxed. The rider mentioned a new saddle because the old saddle was a bit tight across the shoulders. Possibly this saddle is causing discomfort somewhere. I don't care what Ryan says about it probably not being physical...something is not physically right and the horse is telling the rider that every time she attempts a lead change on that side. I would go over EVERYTHING...started with the mare...check her lips for bit damage, teeth to make sure that there is not a tooth/bar issue on one of her bars, check her tongue to make sure there's not damage to the tongue that could hurt when bit pressure is applied, then go to headstall, chin strap, bit (to make sure there are no burrs on it that the mare can feel and that hurt her) cinch, saddle pad, and try different saddles.
Maybe the mare just needs a little more rehab. It could be something that nobody thinks of, for example, maybe she gets some temporary ovarian cysts that affect her on the one side. I think if she were my horse I would give her a break from the flying changes and get her a Chiropractor and some more rehab before trying to train her to do flying changes and see what happens.
I also noticed her reaching back to the cinch area and kicking her tummy. Made me think maybe she was uncomfortable too. Reminded me of a mare in labor. I kinda felt like her tail swishing was irritation/frustration. All of that aside, great video. A lot of good information.
FINALLY someone showing lessons not on perfectly trained fancy quarter horses! My mare is literally the same! And this video os super helpful. I hope I will succeed with my witch lol
A very interesting video with details and insight to illustrate the basics and how to solve involved horse and rider interactions for improved performance.
Ryan is an excellent coach. His attitude and the deep knowledge and understanding of “how riding works” combined with his great horsemanship skills... damn I wish I lived in the US:)
What a great job this trainer has done on this semi complicated mare. Great point on the positivity. Even though she has worked hard she needs to know she is getting it. She is "right" there.
Ryan you are an awesome teacher! You break things down and explain things so clearly. You understand horse psychology and share your understanding generously!
Great video. The horse doesn't appear to understand collection and isn't driving from the hock. I would spend the next 2 weeks on that. Once she understands drive: and able to direct the shouoder and the hips; the lead change is effortless.
Wow! U never disappoint me! I wish u was here to train my horses! U r the absolute best! I love your videos! I say it all the time, u r a horse whisper Ryan Rose!
So interesting. When the owner picked up the reins, the mare rolled her eyes. Every time. Until she lightened up her feel. “Excess baggage” hits the mark.
Love this! Learning a lot! Totally relatable to training a dog in not pulling them into doing something as much as waiting for them to give or come into it on there own and getting what evere type of reward (food,toy,happy voice) works best for that dog
I'm watching the horse's tail. Not a luxury from the driver's seat. Good video! Thanks to all and Ryan. Love that my parents gave me riding lessons my whole childhood in five countries. Lead changing at a canter on any horse that can be ridden in arenas or trails in groups or alone was like what you gotta do to graduate. English and Western. I really enjoy your calm teaching style. A must for sensitive horses and or sensitive people. Rodea horse named Hash that could walk perfectly straight and nibble on my boot toe. Not that I would get him in a habit of doing that. But if I told anyone then I would have to ride him and prove it.. quite funny looking. Also had to know what we were doing and get back to proper riding. It was our secret trick. Not Recommended outside of maybe dressage.
1252 exactly the people accidentally train the horse to keep fighting with them because they don't stop to teach because they didn't learn to listen it's hard to listen when the horses speak so quietly and the humans have so much on their minds given the horses size and physical stature already outweigh the human
This was awesome!! Thank you vivian for being willing to show me where I can improve! Also, anyone know where the back of the line is for Emily and Ryan’s sisterwife applicants? I’ll just do the cleaning I swear.
6:30 figure 8 in any gate can help with teaching lead changes with a bit of dramaticized seat and leg position change right at key interchanges the horse begins to become aware of what you're asking it's legs to do for both of your main goal
Love this video! Soooo much information here, I come back and watch it often. I have a mare who can get a little hot and knows her changes but gets frustrated easy and I had to slow down and use les leg pressure. It would be interesting to see how this mare is doing now 😄
2108 it's such a bummer when they get that head toss thing going it makes me want to go back to ground work and teach them to drop their head and at least stop and teach them the cue to drop their head the old days of a tie down or Martin Gale even where very restrictive and then that isn't the same as teaching
Just want to point out that the lead change is a natural thing, so if she can do it without a rider, more than likely she can do it with a rider no issue. This looks mental to me, not physical.
1707 that's critical for teaching the bach effect away which leads eventually to The runaway effect yes exactly thank you people are so silly with their anxiety thing they really need to train horses more this is excellent everyone keep it up
Maybe she's sore in that area...soft tissue...go with the physical first.... chiropractic is a good check.....sounds good that you checked all that out.
33:43 yes in animal psychology it's a little different than in human psychology because when we call them out with a negative comment we can tell right away who they work for and it cracks us up
Horses can often appear lame when they are simply bracing or resisting pressure. Their focus is no longer on their feet, it's all on defending the face, they will often times even trip and stumble while actively resisting pressure. A good way to tell is watch the horse while moving on a loose rein with the rider simply riding (balanced of course), on a straight line or large circle and not being asked to do anything besides move.
It is hard to ride when you are having someone give you tips. You're concentrating on two directions at once. I always had more stress and frustration when my ex was giving me advice because I wanted to do what he said when he said it. Rather than feeling for that moment. But when I went back later, alone with my horse, it would fall into place. And of course No one was there to see that progress. But a person does have to let go of wanting others to see them do things the right way. You gotta let go of that need to be a perfectionist, and just be a human and your horse, and accept that both make mistakes while learning.
It does seem the communication is not 100% clear and she gets confused then by intention. Never a bad time to learn as well as teach. These are extremely fine tuning both hers and yours riding.
I love your techniques and all other things aside, that mare appears to be in pain imo. Whether it is whatever her original injury was, something further up or down as a result, or just weakness she appears to be resisting due to a physical issue. That violent tail action is speaking volumes. Sorry, just what I'm seeing. Wish they could talk and tell us - but I'd hate to hear the comments at feeding time ;-)
I’m wondering if it’s chiropractic instead. The lady never said she got her assessed by a chiropractor, a vet doesn’t commonly check the spine when doing health checks. All things need to be assessed before blaming the horse for being resistant.
My draft / tb x mare, home raised, did the same thing - ended up being a problem in the hock which now requires injections to help her. She pretty much is retired which is sad, pasture injury (slipped in the pasture which created the injury).
How about a lesson in using the fly spray bottle for Vivienne? Poor little thing can't concentrate due to bugs bothering her! 😨 And her back end looks off.
Some dressage training might help with the hands and softness. At least more relaxation in the shoulders and arms would be something to work on. Practice letting the shoulders "drop" while riding will steady the arms and hands.
3515 it is hard to transfer between trainers educators have different styles that work differently for different beings that's why it's wonderful to try to communicate the different ways of figuring out any circumstance we come across
1424 that raciness comes when they are unaware of exactly what you're asking for that's why it's important to slow down like you are here and get direct communication instead of allowing the speed zone to get them confused
I think she is super tight in her hind end, upper hip by back of saddle and radiates to her whole back end. I sense soreness. One way to relieve this is when your done for the day...& hopefully a not always riding sessions, but occasionaly time spent with her on a long line , a picnic lunch, some time with her...let her graze while you read or write in your journal perhaps about how you guys could be better friends/team. The point here is to allow her to experience you full spectrum. Hopefully your ground work is not always confined to a arena only, nor your riding time. Quarter horses are compact muscular units. They have been bred to be complacent and expected to be push button machines all day without complaint. Their body's bung up. However you choose to spend your time the thing you can do at the close of your day is to schedule and allow a relaxed time doing these techniques that reinforce your bond, and can provide a amazing relief for both of you. The best way to do this, is take them back to their enclosure and allow her to participate of her own accord. So halter off, no ropes . Do not pat, keep verbilization to a minimum. Lay hands flat w fingers relaxed but slightly cupped towards your horse. With long broad hand over hand strokes fall in rythem with the sound of her munching on whatever free feed you provide. Feed in feeder don't handfeed while at this. Allow one hand to be on horse at all times, stroke long about the length of your arm. As it is coming out of / the bottom of the stroke, take the other hand and begin that stroke. Read her flesh with those hands, your looking for heat, puffiness, a density in the tissue underneath. These will be places you assess once the day session is done. Once you have a list of mental notes of whereby you dialed into notable differences that exist in her body right then. Can be helpful to keep a note pad / journal because over time patterns of physical resistence become apparent and you can compensate for her .Once her whole body has been " scanned"...by your hands slowly ,what you assess, those are your directions as to what you do next. If she is cleared ( you don't feel anything in particular) once every bit of her hide has been covered, & while she is eating...reach up and grab her about 1/2 ft or 2 behind poll on neck. Drape both hands, keep your Fingers curled so you won't loose grip of her ridge line of her neck. If you have a source of laid back music, play it throughout this session. Start rocking back and forth using your whole body until she eventually has what I call a noodle neck. Can and have spent up to 15 min. Rocking. Do not lock your shoulders or torso, ( or you will take on the tension and lodge it in your body) and if you just rock her by stepping forward,stepping back. Remaining relaxed and the movement is coming from your whole body, once your are satisfied with the now transformed noodle neck, you can go grab her tail just above her hocks, start swaying with it back and forth, as in side to side. The tighter she is, is indicative of how tense her muscles are and how much pain she could potentially be it. Next gently take her tail and make it do range of motion circles either direction. Pay attention to protective resistance or clamping. When you encounter that just gently work that part of the circle pattern until she softens then continue on until you sense all tension has left that tail, take your time, we owe them to put them back into their body's after we have demanded so much that they are no longer comfortable being in their bodies. Horses are some of the most generous nature's on the planet. Who do you know that would carry you into a live battle field because you requested them to do so. We should not exploit their charitble nature. Without proper building of their condition is like asking a 1st grader to do prima ballerina routine. Many horses will push themselves into a pained state trying to accommodate us, then behavioral issues emerge. Good luck with your mare Vivien. Also many mares have the equivelent of ovarian cysts that impede their work. Her resistance and her tail swishing makes me suspect. This mare is trying hard. She is uncomfortable, give her some observation , groundwork, & empathy please, until you can rule out she doesn't have issues. Men have No concept to the pain female bodies can be tortured due to our reproductive organs, animals and humans. Please broaden your perspective on possibilities. I feel super strongly this mare is in trouble.
