Confused Horse Doesn't Trust People 

Updated by owner: 3 weeks ago we saw Ryan. thanks for all the comments: to clarify- this horse has been vetted thoroughly and her tongue checked by a vet and a bit recommended by the vet. She was not treated well by a past owner. She also has successfully worked with kids for 2 years in a kids lesson program. She has helped hundreds of kids learn to ride BEFORE she started acting out about 4 months ago when she was pulled from the program. The video excerpts you saw were a one off situation of us recently restarting her back with trainers and a vets advise and using only our intermediate kids with supervision. She escalated in a 24 Hr period and reared for the very first time at which we instantly brought her to Ryan the next day. She is no longer working with kids and won’t again if the tools and training we are applying do not result in her wanting that job. We are a very safe and knowledgeable barn that puts the welfare of our kids and our horses above all else. Because we care we are willing to talk to the expertS and do what is right and never give up on learning and growing as humans. There’s never a bad horse, just bad humans!!!!! Please realize this. The horse has done a 100% turn around already in 3 weeks and is already responding to Ryan’s amazing Fundamental program, we highly recommend it. We have consistently applied it the last 3 weeks and she is happy and calm and reminds us of the horse we knew four months ago before this began. We will continue to work with our local trainer and with her and have high hopes she will be the horse we know, understanding us and us her!!! Thanks again Ryan!!!!!

You work with horses like my mom. She was a jockey for 30 years but trained her own horses since she was 4 with the help of my trainer papa. I’ve watched her with thousands of horses over the years. I love your thought process and how you are mindful of the horses needs. Baby steps to the bigger picture! Love it love you

Update- 1 year later our beautiful mare is relaxed, happy, and understood better now than ever. She works with beginners now with a much more calm and thoughtful attitude. As someone always a student of learning- the more we learn the more we find we don’t know- this is no different in the horse world. To all the people who have been our barn thru our journey, we KNOW, all of us how amazing these two horses are, and how much we are blessed with them in our lives! Thanks again to Ryan, our local trainer, and all the clients who have had the opportunity to experience these amazing animals here at Middleton Stables!!!

and if your horse is getting upset and starting to go into refusal mode, redirect to something they know and are good at. Do that for awhile, then work your way back to where the issue is. That's why these Ray Hunt natural horsemanship methods work so great. It's about task analysis, steps that build on steps. You always have a place to back up to where it was good, and if you reach a spot where you are having difficulty it is most likely because you didn't fully teach a previous step. That is what is meant by "a hole in their training".

Yes! We are doing just that and have been for 5 Months and thankfully we met Ryan and he is leading us down the right path. Already in past 3 weeks she’s improved tremendously

@Cherie Middleton Thank you for the update! Congratulations and give yourself a pat on the back!!

@@Middletonstablesllc- Any further update since last year? I’d guess you’ve pretty much resolved everything by now.

Honestly both my horses are amazing! My mare in the video is extremely sensitive and kind and has come so far that my 13 yr old rider just today won Grand Champion on her in the show! We have applied all the tools and horsemanship and love Ryan asked and our amazing Local Trainer works with us and our horses and kids every week! God is good and answers all prayers and I’m super happy to report that She and my retired eventer are happy and well adjusted !!

So we hadn’t looked at her tongue injury in 2 years since we bought her and apon a second look- it now looks like a healed cut in one side. That being said- we didn’t and haven’t made anything worse- the cut is better - we also had a vet look at it and the type of Tom Thumb we are using - very thick cushioned bit- that doesn’t hit or bother her past injury, and she likes it over many many other bits. I also purchased a bosel and am going to learn the right hands and reins to ride it with her since she’s sensative

@@Middletonstablesllc That's all good to hear :) I hope everything works out for you guys and this horse

@@Middletonstablesllc Bravo to you for being open minded about alternative to bits!

​@@Middletonstablesllcthere's hackamores to try too if those don't work.( And a side pull).

​@@Middletonstablesllcso happy to hear your moveing away from the old ways I wish more people lernt it's about a connection and relationship to therebrain and not reliance on heavy duty hardware. Warick Schiller is the best for learning how to realy have a relationship with your animals.

She reminds me of my abused mare. So sensitive, sweet hearted, and willing. She is my jogging buddy now, not sure if she’ll ever be ridable. She was roped around the hocks and stretched out on the ground so they could mount her when she was younger 2-3 years old. She’s now 19 now, I’ve had her for 4 years, everyday I wish I could’ve owned her from those baby years.

Same for dog owners also.

I agree with you 1000%... totally judgy. People will make mistakes, at least she is willing to be humble enough to ask and learn. I am just getting into horses myself for my love of them and there is a huge learning curve but if you love them and want to learn, who is anyone to criticize. Instead of making hateful comments, why not try to support her and give her more advice and encouragement? Good Lord.

EXACTLY

I love this saying you shared. Thanks

It wasn’t the space. It’s that she doesn’t like her owner. The owner probably focuses on the kids, and blames or fusses at the horse when things go ‘not perfectly’.

​@@kitkakittehThe owner was uptight and tense. The horse did not trust her as a leader. The mare immediately recognised the Ryan was a trustworthy leader and she relaxed.

In my opinion the horse is too sensitive to be used with inexperienced riders. Maybe when she has a bitless bridle, she may do better.

DEFINATELY looking into that being an answer

Hope woman has learned something, AND REMEMBERING

This is also something that has been considered. After doing Ryan’s suggestions she may or may not be used anymore in the program. It will be up to her

I'd like to see her around kids. I have a horse that was severely abused in his past and does not like people. I would say my mom and I are the only people that he trusts enough to relax while we ride him, but we had to work hard to gain that trust. However despite his past, he LOVES kids. He's scared of an adult holding a water bottle, but a 3 y/o being held by a parent and grabbing at his face is completely fine. He'll leave my presence if I just look at him, but I've seen him fall asleep while he let's a 12 y/o girl pet him. Now I'm curious to see if he could be a lesson horse for a friend's niece and nephew. He's definitely not your typical lesson horse, but he might just have the heart for it

Honestly these horses come to us from all situations. She was 13 or so when I got her and not much was told to me as they wanted to sell her, then I found out from the ferrier that did her feet for them that she had had this or that done to her. I felt immediately on meeting her she’d been neglected (feet hadn’t been done in almost a year) and I could see in her eyes and her demeanor she didn’t trust😟. I felt my heart leap from my chest and instantly I wanted her loved forever and promised her a home where she’d be cared for the right way. My kids treat her right- are taught to ride with their legs and their bodies , but as was mentioned - kids aren’t confident and it can scare horses. Sometimes she picks kids she can handle and some kids she can’t and I am very involved it what she does and doesn’t do. She has been extremely great for kids with confidence who think they are great riders to learn they still have to grow more in confidence. She didn’t really start objecting seriously to her job until recently - so I’d say try your guy with kids and see what happens just have your radar up. You never know. It might be good for him. Kids can be so gentle and loving. Guidance for them is so important. This allowing my story to be out there and criticized by all 1millin of Ryan’s followers has been difficult for me as I am always willing to learn and listen. But I will not listen to people who just want to put others down when they are seriously looking for good and sound answers. My mare is in good hands. She tells me what she will and won’t do and she is listened to. And I love her and won’t let anyone kid or her be hurt.

Quit blaming the horse. The horse is not understood. The owner is a poor horsewoman. Her lack of understanding is the problem.

@@krisbaker9427 Maybe read the entire comment, and others on the thread, before replying. The owner is doing the responsibile thing by seeking expert advice. She also responded that she is observing the horse with students to evaluate whether or not it is a good fit.

Thank you for noticing- I love her and have been working very hard to learn to listen to her- this has been a journey for sure of love, respect and patience

I hope she begins to understand horses better. Her lack of understanding is the problem.

Vision loss can be subtle, especially when a horse is secure in a familiar setting.

This is probably the only thing we haven’t done in the past year- great suggestion

This is interesting, and something I've often wondered about with horses that consistently shy at white lines on pavement for instance, or dark shadows. It seems we take for granted that all horses have good eyesight. Without my glasses, I'd be nervous too!

Came to the comments to say the same. She hesitated to walk into the shady area with the fly mask on. Ryan walked her without it and she followed willingly!

I've never been a fan of covering the horses eyes. Never have used face masks with eye screens. Research finds Pros & Cons. Some are contradictory. All specify an imperative need for properly measured fit, and all state the importance of a clean & washed mask, fresh daily, and to have a few extra masks on hand, to rotate while washing others. The emphasis on clear vision and unencumbered sight, from behind the eye screens, looking out, does vary accordingly. Most agree about slight variations that do perhaps interrupt or block clear vision path. Others claim using same masks for sun protection. I recall when the fad started. I didn't care for the apparatus nor feel the neec. . I think masks block this & that.. It all depends. Good & perhaps negative too. I feel as though, placing a screen over the eyes, could distort free & clear vision. It reasons. However, ask your Equine Veterinarian. They studied for 16 years. They know the eyes requirements & capabilities. I prefer to use excellent quality repellent made from several natural botanicals & essential oils. My horses are brought inside well before dark. Bathed & sprayed. Fans above. No bugs.

Could be we are figuring that out

I’m a professional horsebreaker and I’m no great bronc rider either. But I never found one that could buck me off the end of the lead rope! 👍

To add what she is teaching.. Two kicks and a crop.. Yep typical ribbon chaser hunter jumper trainer... I'm so done with this industry...

That woman is an instructor? That horse is not ready for the drudgery of two kicks and a slap type riding

Me too, I feel bad for that sweet mare. If you need money, get a job somewhere other then horses

She has my horse and a lesson horse for 2 years and has recently decided she doesn’t want to. Listen to what we said. She has taught over 300 kids to ride safety. This issue is a new issue.

@@Middletonstablesllc i’m not saying that I know everything wrong with her and the situation. I am seeing glaring clues Even her facial expressions are telling a story. Yes she is intelligent, but she’s also sensitive. She is trying to tell you something in the only way she can. I do absolutely believe that insecurity is at the root of her issues. In addition, she could also simply be plain old still sick of being a lesson horse. Why force her to keep doing it when she obviously does not like it? That could be the reason why she was sold to you, if I’m understanding the story, it sounds like she was sold to you as a private horse, and then you decided to use her as a lesson horse. Riding stables usually don’t get rid of a good lesson horse that’s working for them. A lesson horse has a very difficult job. Not every horse can do that for its entire life. She is a lovely horse. Find a lesson horse that is duller and more tolerant.

Ponygirl- please so being so rude. You don't know as much as you think you know. Give Cheri some grace. She is doing her best to help her horse.

@@marilynbridges8697 this is not being rude. This is just stating an opinion of what I’m seeing from 50 years of horse involvement. She can either consider what I say, or she can say I don’t know what I’m talking about and throw it out. I’m not calling her any names or being mean. I’m just stating my opinion and what I see. people are way too easily offended these days

Thank you

Same!!

I can highly recommend the patreon page. It’s awesome. I’ve been a member for over a year. It’s been the best value for money ever. It’s transformed my relationship with my horse.😊

Back in my riding days, I had a wonderful rescue horse that had been abused, who (after six years of bonding and building trust) tuned out to be the envy of the barnyard. It takes a gentle hand and a lot of patience to train a horse properly. It is so much easier to train a foal than to work with an older horse that has had traumatic experiences, but if you can get them past the fear, there are some wonderful horses out there who deserve to be saved (and loved). Ryan's training methods are top notch, no doubt about it.

@@ryanrosehorsemanship you're welcome!!!

I mean.. the owner was also holding onto her head and clucking but not actually leading her forward. Horses aren't mind readers 😅

Not true at all, it’s Been two weeks and she’s already doing amazing

I did buy a bosel for her and we are working on learning to ride correctly in it and ultimately that is the goal

@cheriemiddleton6722 I'm so happy to hear that :)

Absolutely- what we are working on and doing much better with already

I think so too!

And the owner. She is not communicating in the horse’s language. She is the smart part of the horse/human partnership and needs to start using her brain.

It looks to me like Ryan is riding her with a pelham using 1 rein with a leather bit connector between the snaffle and curb connection points.

The Tom Thumb is the ONLY bit that she has liked and accepted. With the advice of a very skilled trainer we have tried over 20 different bits. She has a severe cut on her tongue. The other bits get caught in her tongue. She is most happy and the vet said she likes the Tom Thumb best because of this tongue injury. We have the Tom Thumb in with bit connectors and bits are as safe or unsafe as the hands of the rider

@@Middletonstablesllc I am not anti-bit and understand about hands. But a TT bit wobbles all over the place - incl in the horse’s mouth - and sends conflicting signals to the horse. A direct pull to the left w the rein attached to the bottom of the shank pushes the purchase into the side of the horse’s head, pushing it to the right. Opposing signals at the same time. Plus jaw pressure plus poll pressure. That’s a lot going on for a horse who has been badly abused in the mouth. Anyway good luck w your mare. She is beautiful and Ryan really liked her. Very encouraging.

@@evelynwaugh4053 Thanks I couldn’t tell. Presumably with a solid mouthpiece. That makes more sense w a badly damaged tongue v a Tom Thumb. I don’t understand the point of bit connectors; it seems like they would just result in a dull/ambiguous signal going to the horse. Anyway Tx for the clarification.

@@epona9166 I have one with a mullen mouth, which I like. I agree, I read both pro and con about them. In theory, it seems possible to use hand position to cue either the snaffle or the curb bit with one rein and a bit connector, but that's conjecture.

😊 thanks

We are blessed beyond measure to have this amazing man Ryan Rose take the time to show us a better path!!!!

Yes, we got her this way, and we’re super sad to find someone had damaged her tongue with brute force. Never should an animal be treated this way for any reason and it stands to reason why she is somewhat weary of humans she doesn’t know

@@Middletonstablesllc Nothing worse than animal abuse in my opinion. We also have a horse who was abused he’s a handful. The great thing is, there are people like you who are willing to give these beautiful creatures, another chance, and truly be their friend and family ♥️ However, I would take Ryan’s advice and use a Bozell👍 I don’t think your horse needs a bit, not at all

Yes I love her with all my heart and soul and will do anything to make her life happy and sound and it hurts my heart to have people be so judgmental and nasty/. I would have never come to Ryan if I didn’t care about the kids i teach and my precious horses. They both are my life. Thanks for your kind words

Sadly years ago a trainer ALSO told me to start with a Tom Thumb bit, a bit that instantly puts harsh levering pressure right on the bars as soon as ANY pressure is applied. Avoid any "trainer" that is promoting their use, esp THIS sensitive & scarred tongue mare! Also understand that curbed bits are not intended to be ridden on contact. I applaud that this owner understands she has a lot to learn herself... As we all have in our journeys with horses!! But with proper, clear, gentle & consistant communication from a benevolent & confident handler (Sooo NOT the best career/horse for beginning/multiple riders or students). However,THESE are the horses that have the most potential to become the PRICELESS partner. A gift that is worth earning... But a long haul to be EARNED.

Bravo!!

And teaching kids

Thank you. I had no clue. 👍

Welcome! Glad you like them!

The patreon page is even better! Can highly recommend.

My pleasure!

Keep your negative comments to yourself - not true at all- this horse has helped over 300 kids learn to ride in the last two years. She just recently lost connection with us

So we don’t have any known history- we have tried to find bits and things she’s comfortable in. Her tongue has a healed tear from someone being mean. She loved her job for over a year and then now doesn’t and we are addressing it now. Without all the info you are being very judgementAl. Ryan is helping- if she decides NOW , that after we address the leadership and kid issues she doesn’t want to do lessons anymore. She won’t. I love how people think they know everything when they couldn’t and clearly don’t. Monday night quarter backs.

@@Middletonstablesllc Cool story. Except she said the horse was in a tom thumb which was chosen by her trainer.

The she was me- and the trainer I use did put her in a Tom Thumb because it is the best bit for her and the vet concurs

@@Middletonstablesllc Get a new vet and a new trainer then. She clearly doesn't need it and if you use your own brain, you can see it's a terrible choice. If YOU had been abused in the mouth, what would you choose for yourself?

@@Middletonstablesllc Research Dale Mylar info re bits/systems PLEASE!!! Not even that people have to buy the bits/systems he's designed (but many do!), but his research is EXTENSIVE!!! Julie Goodnight is also a good resource for good explanations on the subject & Is ADEMENTLY opposed to Tom Thumb being used on ANY horse!! People that recommend bits, etc that cause pain only escalate things & esp the fight response vs a bit/system that is actually a communication tool!! Anyone still recommending pain oriented items & techniques, thinking us weak humans CAN FORCE a horse are still in the stone ages!!! We need to keep looking at ourselves to fill in the holes in our own EDUCATION regarding communicating back & forth with horses! ... Besides Ryan's, Also PLEASE check out many of the free Steve Young RU-vid videos!!! All this will help us fill in the holes in our & horses training. 💪❤All these folks improving horses & humans lives!!

DEFINATELY - we are stepping back and Ryan recommended taking her out of our program for a few months and working on certain things- which we are doing/. She may never work in it again- it will depend on her