September 2023 SSBM Tier List 

slippi giving fox all the resources he needs is fitting

ok but why you recording underwater tho

I'm waiting for the day DK makes into this tier list.

Still believe if there was an aMSa for Luigi he would be able to get similar results. Maybe I am crazy but I just see so much potential in the character

Did mew2king predict the future meta?

Probably should start ranking Ganon and DK

fox players pick up sheik for marth. marth players pick up icies for sheik. the arms race ends when everyone realizes this is stupid and just goes solo fox

I would like to hear some description of Donkey Kong, His 20XX Tech skill and punish game as well as tools against the top tiers makes him look alive.

Bobby died for this

I agree with the order 100% but I'd put puff and falcon in a-tier and climbers and pika in b-tier.

a year ago people called me crazy for putting Yoshi above Peach and Sheik above Puff

omg this tier list is insane and i love it. sending to all my falco homies rn

I think dk lowkey could be better than luigi honestly. Luigi is just more exploitable and dk up b is so versatile

babe wake up new objectively correct opinion dropped

Fairly agreeable list I think you'll see bigger things coming from Samus in the future enough to bump her up into the next tier atleast

You were 8 months clean but here we are

You should do a tier list that goes down to the worst character that beat you in tournament

mekk has shown ganon is much better in modern meta than expected

You have a great voice dude, combined with melee it makes great content lol. And I couldn't agree more with your reasoning for the top 3 and how you see the endgame developing.

interesting, i figured since top 8s can have up to 5 foxes in them and usually max out at 2 marths, falco would still get the nod over sheik for being better vs fox. ICs and Puff still are quite bad for Sheik where Falco doesnt have match ups that bad. Fox at 1, Falcon at 6, Samus at 11, and Luigi 12 is very solidified for me. Peach being better vs Fox, Sheik, Falcon (she loses those mus, but they're playbale), Pika, ICs and Samus than Yoshi is in those mus keep her ahead of Yoshi. Also Peach beating Yoshi. The Puff mu and to a lesser extent Marth are really tough for Peach so I can see how people would put Yoshi over Peach, but Yoshi's Fox, Sheik, Falcon, and Peach match ups are brutal as evidenced by aMSa's recent records vs the best players of those characters. So I feel Peach has less VERY tough matchups to dodge than Yoshi. And luckily for Peach, her worst mu in Puff is not a common one and it's easier to dodge hbox these days. Dodging top Foxes has never really been feasible though; you have to beat at least 1-3 to win a major. Kind of a tradeoff where Peach has a must-dodge match up in Puff and Yoshi has four very bad match ups that arent quite MUST-dodge, but aMSa will never be favoured vs the best of those 4 characters. Yoshi and Pika have very similar mu spreads except Yoshi does far better vs Puff and better vs ICs and Pika does somewhat better vs Falcon so I always have them 8 and 9. ICs I have at 10 bc they only beat Sheik and Pika and they are horrendous vs Peach, Puff, and to a lesser extent Falcon. But ICs still have the huge grab damage potential which can mitigate the terrible match ups a bit and give them a chance vs the other top tiers. But also doesn't help ICs that Ganon and Luigi can also be a pretty big threat to them. ICs stay relevant cause top players that aren't a Puff, Peach, or Wizzrobe are still not clean enough to avoid grab consistently. I'm still good with Ganon at 13 since he's good into Samus and ICs and although he's very bad vs the S tier characters, at least he can get a lot off grab. Mekk doing work with Ganon and being ranked higher than the best Doc and DK supports this placement too.

Sick teirlist I enjoy that you explain every character with a good argument

As a Falco main I agree with this. I feel like I get absolutely destroyed by Sheik. One of my worst matchups and turns my shield pressure around on me every time.

Great video but bummer about the mic quality

We need full tier list I want to hear his opinions on all characters in the game

I think this tier list is a consequence of recency bias and will change within the next year. Sheik is not as good as people say she is and when people really start to dissect the MU and play style of top sheik players, she will swap with Falco again. I also think the yoshi stuff will fade over time. A top ten character? Sure. But above peach? I can’t see it. Love the in depth look at this list though. Keep up the good work Hax!

I personally think Falcon should go into A-Tier... Especially since he does not have any winning matchups in S-Tier. Yoshi at least has favorable matchups in S-Tier. The line in the sand seems pretty definitive for Falcon, he absolutely does not beat S-tier characters.

Where would you put Donkey Kong now that he has more solid placings and representation at the top level?

pretty much flawless. looks exactly like mine besides maybe one or two placements

I wish some balance changes can be made for the rest of the characters that are never viable for tournament play.

A few years from now, fox players will realize Pikachu is actually the best counterpick they could do versus Marth. Same jumpsquat argument, but on top of that the gameplan is closer to fox than sheik is; you just get punished way less hard and survive much more as pikachu vs marth than as fox, and have better edgeguard, with similar up-throw confirm but a slightly weaker neutral game (which doesn't matter THAT much considering how much more attempts you get due to the increased survivability)

Full tierlist next for sure, thanks🙏

fwiw, I dunno about fox sheik dual maining, because I think that in practice dual main fox loses to solo main fox, and honestly I think we've kinda seen this play out with leffen and plup. in theory the matchup spread is probably the best in the game, but I think that dual maining fox with a character that loses to fox (ie, not falco or marth) is kinda sus for that reason.

I don't like consolidating down to 3 tiers for this. I think with the characters you're looking at, there are some clear tiers that you captured well in your previous list: - Wins regularly - Wins occasionally - Rarely or never wins, but it is or should be possible - Never wins, and should never be expected to win, but is a threat to upset/make top 8 (and then everything not tiered isn't even a threat to upset, although I might add a few more characters to that final group). There's a results-based argument that only Fox and Marth should be in "wins regularly", given the limited pool of players that have ever won majors with any other character, but it's hard to disentangle that from how few players actually win majors at all, so I could see ending this top tier anywhere from after Marth to after Puff. But I just can't see Falcon belonging up there when Wizzrobe is the only Falcon to ever do it, and has only done it a handful of times (depending on which events you count, arguably only once). By results Yoshi is arguably better than Falcon in terms of threat to win, though I'm not saying I'd put Yoshi above Falcon on a tier list. Similarly, I have a hard time seeing ICs or Pikachu in the same tier as Yoshi or Falcon given their lack of results - while winning Summit is extremely impressive, it's a different sort of thing than winning a "normal" major, and Axe generally looks like less of a threat than Wizzy or aMSa. At the same time, I think your list correctly identifies a big gap between those two and Samus/Luigi, where the latter two don't seem close to having a shot to win an event, as it's rare for them to even make top 8. All that having been said, if you're going to have just 3 tiers, then I think bumping at least Falcon down to A tier would make sense, given what I said above.

0:03 Intro 1:45 Fox 2:43 Marth 4:03 Sheik 5:30 Falco 11:10 Puff / Falcon 13:44 Yoshi 15:01 Peach 16:44 ICs / Pikachu 18:24 Samus 19:01 Luigi 20:12 Outro

No expert however. I think the one thing that keeps Sheik from being rated that high is her horrible ICs matchup.

i love rock paper scissors

Fox/sheik worked well for me for quite a while!

Mew2king tier list

The one i'll predict will change is pika, given that quick attack is still a bit underdeveloped and swift with his 2001 a Space Odyssey ass controller might be the one to advance the metagame

This seems about right but instinctually I'd split it a little different recently I counted the mains of the top 100 didn't account for dual mains here so there'd only be 100 entries which means it is a little inaccurate but 27 fox 12 shiek 11 marth 11 falco 9 falcon 9 peach 7 puff 4 icies 10 "weirdos" to quote zain's tier list characters so Doc/Yoshi/Samus/Yink/pika that sorta deal Where characters weigh in the top 100 could bring room for discussion it's kinda clear there's a slight division between falco and falcon/peach/puff personally I'd just shift everything down by 1 and have puff falcon in A then yoshi peach icies pika in B, samus luigi C

Interesting that Falco has jumped all the way up to 4th, from 7 years ago in your Daily Dot AMA when you put him at 8th

S and A are all the characters that have won majors!

Marth / Falcon dual main is lowkey crazy, maybe not at a top level because it doesn't cover Sheik as well, but at lower levels it can help cover certain playstyle that a Marth main might struggle against. They have the same jumpsquat and long dashes so they're not terribly different on that front. The biggest advantage is that Falcon just go in and fucking kill quick. Even if you can beat annoying floaties with Marth, just getting two knees instead is way easier. - A Marth main who salivates at the idea of getting a raw knee on Samus.

Full tier list sensei

I think if the criteria is specifically looking at solo main you gotta still give it to falco over sheik and possibly even bump falcon above for having less full stop match ups at the top but if you are factoring in dual main, especially given relatively speaking how little upkeep sheik takes comparitively, sheik easily outplaces falco.

I'm a scrubby ultimate player but i love these melee meta discussions

How many more games will Hax have to lose to coolio and TPN before he bumps Link above DK and doc?

The better and more technical the players become, the further down the tier list Puff will slide.

there will never be a 14th faulty mechanic (hax confirmed it in a stream yesterday)

Its basically a rock paper scissors with shiek fox marth. Marth beats fox beats shiek beats marth.

People underrating Samus is criminal. She goes 45-55 with Fox and 50-50 with Marth and Falco. Any character that can contest with those 3 are better then DK who can get lamed out. even if DKs punish game is probably on par with Captain Falcon. If you can't win neutral it doesn't matter.

how falcon has risen

I don't think Sheik being 3rd place is that crazy tbh, makes sense to me. Jmook makes the character look ridiculous. 👌

Falcon in S is something

W video, as always

I really dont understand the luigi argument because his recovery is horrible. But I don't have the most experience

where is DK?

What about DK ?!?!?

Mew2King was right all along

i get hax’s point abt sheik but he doesn’t really talk about mu’s against ICs and puff. also not too sure about falco puff being even??? imo it’s falco favoured (even tho my opinion is not very well informed)

where's mr game and watch

Hax$ my guy you need an audio doctor immediately

where's the full tier list though? where's the roy?

pikachu has a better matchup against marth than fox right?

He has spoken.

YES! Completely agree with Sheik as number 3. Sheik is similar to Marth in a lot of ways. Everything else is spot on. Optimal tier-list.

wheres donkey kong?

who is stronger vs Marth, Fox or Falco?

Falcon will always be A

My only comment is you buggin putting Shiek above Falco.

hax i love you but please get a better mic

God damn he is back with a tierlist 😂

My friend, you need a new mic, but good list.

Hell yeah brother

x1.75 activated. Let's hear it.

Let’s gooooo

God bless everyone her ✝🙏❤🥰😊☺, Cool and chill vid 😎❤👍

UPDATE CHROME

wheres doc

WHERES MONKE

Game & Watch = S tier

Damn peach is weak now

I tuink there should be more levels to this Fox, Marth Sheik, Falco, Puff Yoshi, Peach, Falcon Icies, Pikachu, Samus, Luigi

Falco is trash imo puff should be above him.

I might be wrong but it just doesn’t seem right to me considering dual mains in this. I just wanna know what the character itself is capable of. Sure sheik’s marth matchup gives more incentive to play, but for consistency I’ll take the 50/50s from falco.

Fix mic

Sheik 3rd is so correct

Falco s is wild.... hes too far aheadd of the currve. Fr the elon musk of melee.

game has been out for 22 years, the tier list does not change!!!!!!

Ninth

4th

First

i have always loved your videos and contributions to the community, and i always will. stay strong, you will make it through this era of melee man, please don’t give up, ur too cracked at all of it 🫡

do you thinkl puff beats sheik

Where is hitler ?