Great contest! I love Edwin T Socket because he goes into great detail to describe things that mainly advanced car stereo installers would understand. LIKED!
A question that Ive been wondering for the longest time that no one was able to explain it correctly but you. To be honest ive always noticed a difference but wasn't never sure, thanks for this vid
@3stagevtec I am going to try and get my hands on some items to test too. Thank you for bringing this all up and making me think more about it. It's always welcome to have that.
@ShowtimeSPL I figured the outcome wouldn't change, just wanted to point it out just in case. I am glad you took the time to make such a video. I have never really thought about this subject, but I'm glad I do now. I think a video needs to be made about low impedance and high current and the effects on voicecoils.
@sentrapower Its mainly for greater SPL numbers in competition, so if that is important to you, you can recone your woofers with other coils. If not, and you just are enjoying music, its not a big issue.
Youd have to re-cone or switch woofers if the same woofer comes in multiple options. There is no other way to do it unless you change qty of woofers or split them up to multiple channels if you have multiple woofers.
@3stagevtec See, the difference between series and parallel (at least in my understanding) is that the formula for heat in series is taking the total R into account and for parallel it can be individual R. And the heat in parallel is not summed.
I forget why I used 1.33 as an example. perhaps I meant 2) 4ohm voice coil woofers which would be 1 ohm. But I did not mention 2 SVC woofers. I mentioned 2 coils. They may not even be in woofers.
@3stagevtec As far as manufacturers catching on, thats not always as simple as it seems. I myself am a manufacturer and there are obstacles in the way and trends to follow. There was a rise of quad coil woofers in 2002 but competition organizations outlawed them. 8 coil woofers is not really feasible for other performance issues but they are possible. Some brands such as JBL had made the crown amps able to be parallel bridged for higher ohm loads and less current for this very issue.
@3stagevtec Well, according to Joule heating, power itself isnt the big factor, its a relationship with current and resistance. And in the case I discuss in the vid, resistance is the same, but current is a variable. And Joule's law says that the higher current will produce higher heat. This is one reason why we use higher voltage in our electrical grid in homes and such, to combat this. I will respond on FB too. Thank you
@ShowtimeSPL Using Joules 1st Law and your example, assuming time is kept constant, Heat in a Series arrangement (with 0.5ohm coils) = 50A x 50A x 0.5ohm = 1250 Heat in parallel with 2ohm coils = 25A x 25A x 2ohm = 1250 I am still getting the heat produced to be the same.. This is the 1st time I am using this formula, so please correct me if I am using it wrong. Rene
@fritosaregood My tests were with same woofers, reconed with different impedance coils. Clamped power was actually about 50w higher with the series config which was the lower SPL. Bl does have some to do with it.
I'd have to disagree with that. Ever have coils burn up during a 3 second SPL run? I have. I have also seen many many others do it as well. It only takes a fraction of a second for the coil wire to heat up from room temperature to over 200 degrees F. So when you are running 8,000w-28,000w to each woofer, you'd want to do everything you can to help it run cooler.
Somehow the video got recommended to me now. The explanation seems to be incomplete or wrong. You cannot reconnect your woofer setup without consequences to the amp, wiring and such. I think that reasons for SPL increase are different.
@ShowtimeSPL This would be an interesting test! I have a Kintrex infrared thermometer, if I can get my hands on a similar set of drivers, I would definitely be willing to give it a shot.. Like you said, you can't beat real world testing.. Thanks for the interesting and educative discussion..
@ShowtimeSPL I'm trying to keep this technical but I only have a basic understanding of this stuff.. so please bear with me.. 'And the heat in parallel is not summed.' How do you take into account the heat produced by multiple coils in a parallel arrangement? According to the formula, each coil will produce 1250 Joules of heat energy, and there are two coils. Logically, I am seeing 2500Joules total.. ?? (I am using the 50A by 50V obtained from the video for series and 25A by 100V for parallel)
@J00bles He said that he changed his vc configuration to test this. So that when in series it had the same final load, as with the parallel wired coils.
@3stagevtec I do not agree to your statement about current and heat. If you read Joule's first law, he states that when you vary the current and the length of wire, the heat produced is proportional to the square of the current times the resistance. This is called "Joule Heating".
@johnny05x Wiring it in parallel lowers the final impedance into the amplifier, the lower the impedance the more power the amp is going to put out to the woofers. Wiring in series wouldnt help in SQ it would just lower the power being sent to the woofers.
@ford302redneck Yes, I did establish that in the comments. The example would be best suited if I used a 2ohm load. In trying to keep numbers simplified for explaination, this was overlooked. But it does not change the outcome of the point being made.
@3stagevtec My understanding is not too advanced either. But there are flaws with what both of us are trying to show here. So we must take a step back. The example values I used in the vid were to simplify matters and they are not accurate to real world figures. Also, we must take into account that we are dealing with a reactive load in which those values are not static. The reactive load is the main reason why I have seen more heat from series over parallel. They react in different manners.
In a real SPL setup heat is not an immediate factor because its just a 3 second burp. Heat would not effect u system or DB output in 3 seconds. It would in 5-10 seconds when ur coils are hot though
@3stagevtec In a true real world app, we must test an example setup in a car, I do not have one avail. at this time so perhaps you could assist with doing tests and sharing the results in a vid. I can do that in given time. My hypothesis and estimation is that the series wiring would yield in a higher reactive load than parallel wiring. Even when the static load reads the same. Testing this would show a variation in Current as well, then we can figure true life Joule heating.
No it's not. Watch the video and pay attention. Parallel does not always half the impedance. If you have 2) 4ohm voice coils in parallel it will be 1.33ohms. And if you have 3) 0.44ohm coils in series, it will also be 1.33ohms. But the parallel coils will play louder because of inductance and lack of joule heating.
So how can one possibly move from a series/parallel connection to an all parallel connection and somehow maintain the same final impedance? Obviously buying all new subwoofers (switching from 2ohm to 4ohm versions for example), but unless you're sponsored, nobody is buying all new subs for that! Secondly, as was mentioned, if you're switching versions of subwoofers, you can't really compare the two numbers and automatically attribute a ~0.2db gain to the change you made. They're different drivers. I would like to see a couple hundred people do this and catalogue the results though. :)
@ShowtimeSPL What I was thinking about was if you designed an 8 coil subwoofer, for example.. with 8 coils, the current flowing will theoretically drop by 8 times, and according to the formula, there will be a similar drop off in heat.. If that was the case, an 8 coil sub will be able to handle huge power and not dissipate much heat in the coil.. If that was true, other manufacturers would have picked up on it and already have such designs in production.. That's one unscientific way I see it..
I just asked someone this question the other day. I need a 2ohm load at the amp and wondered what would be better. Wiring up from dual 1 or down from dual 4. Thanks
@ShowtimeSPL how would you like to do a test with the same impedance coils, but wired different and set to equal power with a clamp? Id be interested in that, i may do it sometime soon though
How would you go about having the same final impedance after switching from series to parallel without reconing to a different coil configuration? The only way I can see how to do this would be wire parallel to terminal post on the enclosure, then series them off the terminal to the amplifier. I know this is an old video, but I was watching some older videos of yours and was wondering how you would go about getting the same final impedance if you wired in parallel as opposed to series.
@ShowtimeSPL Didn't know about Joule Heating.. Heat produced is proportional to I^2 x R OR equal to I^2 x R x t.. but isn't Power = I^2 x R, and since the power is the same in both cases, shouldn't the heat produced still be the same? I also commented on your FB page, would like for you to respond there as well, it's hard to carry out a conversation on youtube.. lol thanks
So if Im wiring multiple 6.5 and want to have a certain ohm load would it be better to wire down then back up to get the right ohm load or wire up then back down to get the same ohm load? Or would they not even make an audible difference for mids and highs?
@ShowtimeSPL isnt this the only way to wire to a final load of 1 ohm? i am confused on how to possibly wire it differently while retaining the same reactive load...
Would this scenario still apply if you’re trying to wire two 1 ohm DVC subs to 1 ohm final load, if you wired them by parallel coils, then series the subs, so wire each sub down, then back up by running them in series, when compared to series the coils on each sub, then wiring the subs in parallel? Cheers!
Saying that less current = less heat is wrong. Yes, the current flowing is less, BUT the power being dissipated is the same! Power is work done wrt time. Since the power remains the same, the heat created should also remain identical! The main advantage of parallel vs series wiring is the voltage or potential across the coils.. and as you said, more potential = stronger field.. Do you agree?
I have 2 18's and they are dual 1 coils, can I run my coils in parallel and then wire the woofers in series to get a 1 ohm load and take advantage of the cooler running coils like you mention in the video?
2 subs, 4 x 2ohm coils. final load needs to be 2. does it make any difference at all if i wire the 2 coils of one sub in series then wire the 2 subs in paralell, versus wiring the 2 coils of a sub in paralell then wiring the 2 subs in series?
Can edwin t socket explain how a jbl bpx2200.1 amp can put out more wattage at 4 ohm (2400 watts) than it can at a 2 ohm load 1800 watts ?? and also put out 120 volt to power stuff like a dc to ac converter ?? Is jbl defying the laws of physics????
Awesome tip but i cant run my setup in parrell i have to run mine in series since my subs are dual 1ohm and my amp is only 1 ohm stable. Is there anything i can do or no?
Did you test it with the same sub and the same clamped power just with the voice coil config changed? or just switching subs? Ive seen on t/s specs where the BL is higher in dual 2s than in dual 1s, would that higher force be part of the reason too?
If im hearing this right, so wiring in parallel will help with increasing the spl so would that mean having it wired in series would help with sq competition?
hey showtimespl I have a question, If I have a 2 channel and 2 ohm stable amp. I have a DD 3515 and is dual 2 sub. I have 1 coil from sub to one channel and the other coil to the other channel on amp. There is no parrell or series wiring, so is the sub receiving 2 ohm power to get the full power or amp or since one 2 ohm coil in each channel does this raise to 4 ohms. It is something I am stunted about.
I didn't read all the comments and I'm not sure if anybody else pointed this out. But your example of 5000watts at 1ohm and 100v x 50 amps isn't correct, as that would be at 2ohms. To be 1ohm, it will take 70.7volt x 70.7amps. Soooooo.
Ed, I'm sure you remember me from SMD. I got a few questions on your theory you have. Is there anyway I can get intouch with you? I'm no longer on SMD, and in email, I'm not 100% I can get the point across. Do you have AIM or anything similar?
@3stagevtec I like a good debate but I dont like being called wrong with no evidence in support of your statement. If you would like to discuss Joule Heating, we can do that in a civil manner. It's a law that does support my statements.
@ShowtimeSPL Sorry if I came across wrong, but I didn't mean any disrespect at all! I was just typing quickly, and that's what came out.. Sorry again. I provided evident in the maths to show how I came to those conclusions.
