I regrettably told a therapist that I attempted suicide, which I was ashamed and frightened to mention. She dropped me that session, and as she was my first therapist, it was a significant blow. There's more to the story, as a few days later I was hospitalized for suicidal intentions, and she wouldn't cooperate with the staff as they would tell me they left phone messages which to my knowledge, she never returned. I also needed paperwork signed for work once I left the hospital, and she refused. I felt so alone and broken, worse off for saying a damn word. I don't know if she was afraid of legal trouble, or what made her decide I wasn't worth the risk... But, frankly, it makes me trust others even less, and reinforced the thoughts that I was damaged beyond repair and unlovable. I'm not sharing a tid bit of my experience for sympathy, but to let therapists know the devastation such conduct can do to people already within the pit of despair and haunted by their tramatic pasts. If you can't handle it, let your client know up front.
I'm so incredibly sorry this happened to you. It shocks me that some healthcare providers behave this way. Helping to save someone's life is far more important than worrying about the legal ramifications (especially if you do your best, follow mandated reporting, and act ethically) if that tragedy does occur. Do everything you can do prevent it, not contribute to it....so awful. There are providers out there like Martha that you can trust, I promise.
wow that’s the opposite of what she was ethically required to do - dropping you instead of getting you help is what really legally could have gotten her in trouble. that was about her shortcomings and inappropriateness, not yours. i hope you carry no shame for that, that’s her shame to carry.
I feel ashamed a lot. Not BPD, social anxiety disorder. I feel ashamed because I'm 37 and still live with my parents, because I've never been in a relationship, because I'm so bad at social interaction due to avoidance, because I'm so dependent.
Marsha, I am a 77 yo man having been a highly abused child between 1950 - 1960, by my Methodist Minister step father. I was diagnosed with BPD in 2017, with narcissistic tendencies, after several failed marriages and relationships. I did not discover DBT and your counselling until last year. You have pointed the way to my mental and physical healing, for which I will be eternally grateful. Your advice is so practical, spiritual and “right”. I am now in the life process of healing both myself for myself and for my wife. It will be a rest of life journey. John W.
She is my hero, I admire her so much, she is the only one who cared enough about borderline to really try and find an efficient treatment. She understands bpd so well since she herself was suffering from bpd when no one knew what it was. She managed to make history with her approach combining science and spirituality. I live in France where there's no dbt program at all, i bought the dbt workbook and watched all her videos, and I am trying to learn dbt on my own. My dream is to go to Seattle for a year and enter a dbt intensive program.
Shame is often the heart of suffering, and most of the time we don't even know. We have to live with, accept and practice opposite action skill. Thank you Marsha.
If a *therapist* (cough) is going to drop a client for suicide ideation or even attempting, then that *therapist* has no right practicing, period. The whole gestalt is to get to the crux/core of the matter of the issue at hand - the key to what is motivating a person to want to end their life - and the reasons are always spiritual in nature. But of course, the current mode of *psychology* is to focus on behavior, not putting the soul into the equation. MAJOR MISTAKE and the one top cause for people actually completing suicide. Therapists who do not address the spiritual aspect are responsible directly for any outcome that arises from this exclusion. Then to drop a client on top of their own shortcomings and failures? That's not only unethical but it's also immoral and re traumatizing the client further.
I havent been dropped for suicide, but I was dropped for telling I occasionally do drugs She said that she isn't "equipped" to deal with it, she wasnt trained for it, and if I do drugs then therapy is pointless-even if I do only occasionally-because my emotional states are under influence and I should go to rehab centre first I was also dropped for being transgender by a therapist who didn't know anything about transgender issues
Its because people with bpd are more in tune with people's feelings. If people disrespected me I would think I would not say or do that to you. And we are good at reading facial expressions. I could always tell if people were making a fool out of me. People would say it was only a joke but I knew they meant to upset me. I have found being less in tune with people's feelings . By thinking more logical thinking she's being snobby or he is being arrogant. It doesn't feel good not being in tune with people's feelings . But it's best to smirk or roll your eyes if people are inconsiderate. But it has helped me a lot by not getting upset about what people say or do. If people show disrespect they lack respect. Dont take it personally what people say or do. People are more self focused these days. And have less time for people. Dont take rude people seriously that's what they want a reaction. Its best to keep it polite with people you are not friends with . To avoid inconsiderate people. And it's best to mind your own business. And it's best not to overshare your feelings because I have had people. Tell me I dont care about your problems. Or laugh or make jokes at my expense.
It has to do with your specific situation, your wise mind will tell you if the emotion is useful to act on. Having emotions is never wrong and it's not something you can control, what you can control is if you want to act on the emotion or not.
Thank you for your brilliant explanation of shame. Learning about emotions, their function and how to cope in healthy ways has really helped in lifting my depression. I am so thankful for yourself and others for the help and hope you bring.
Thank you, Marsha! This is the best description of shame I have heard. I’m not criticizing others who have added to the conversation. This just got to my heart in a way that so many are unable to access and communicate.
I don't know how to change my life around... I watch this video and what arises in me is overwhelm and stress. my dream life feels 999-trillion universes away from my reality: - I have minimal work (I live in poverty) - the place I rent is old and teeny tiny tiny - I have passions and talents that could make me rich, but... - I'm single, have been my whole life, I die for true love - fat and diabetic - old now, no longer attractive - no friends - always a million-trillion stressful things to do...
I think a key to success with BPD is focusing on multiple ways to work at your problems. I use CBT to change my thoughts about other people and DBT to do the harder work. I also take an anti depressant and anti anxiety pill which makes it alpt easier to handle the overcoming emotions. Before all this, I would feel empty and worthless. I never felt like I was good at anything even when I did do good at things. I also was paranoid and saw contradictions in everything. I had no motivation to achieve anything and it’s hard to get out of that mindset even if you have all the tools. Now for the most part my actions line up with my thoughts but it took about 3 years to get there. Now I am thinking about what next to do.
its like a heavy stone on me and even though im tired i check out if its whether rational and still being exposed to my parents is too much for me to handle,they are perfect and im a piece of s for them
I never thought I'd disagree with this genius woman. She is the queen of not listening to society, so this came as a surprise. I think often you are in a situation where some people agree and others don't. If you can, be out and loud and proud and change the narrative!
Sorry but shame many times act as a survival tool for many which intentionally or unintentionally protect them from further getting harmed, its not that simple. And changing narrative is not the 1st priority of traumatized people 🙄.
@@talyalubit4067 sorry I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. In a group based community where group is everything shame many times protect the victim from getting further abused or hounded. I just wanted to say that.
@@punyashloka4946 I'm feeling so hurt and invalidated, punya. When I read your last sentence, I read it as an implication that I'm not traumatized. Is that what you mean?
@@punyashloka4946 I understand- I'm working on feeling less of a need to change the narrative. Because I'm trying to prioritize protecting myself. Everyone is in their own learning process. I understand if you believe that changing the narrative shouldn't be something that people with trauma put themselves in danger for. But when you say 'this is not the 1st priority of traumatized people' it can easily be taken as- any person who feels/acts differently, has not been traumatized. Please be careful with that, as it can be devastating to someone who doesn't fit in that box.
I feel like this convo and most convos are too complicated for a text conversation. just a head up that I'm gonna delete my comment soon cuz i don't want it up there anymore, which will delete the thread as well.
Telling a suicidal patient to shut up about being suicidal in therapy is not the right advice. I say, get another therapist to whom you can talk about your suicidal feelings.
The therapist can do something unethical and when confronted cover it up. When the client is angry it can be considered just a symptom of their diagnosis.
Acceptance is healing though isn't it? Baring in mind acceptance isn't condoning, agreeing or passively allowing things to happen. If you don't accept the past what else can you do other than suffer? Genuine Q.
Weird talk about shame. It doesn’t ring right. The main shame people with any personality disorder have to deal with is of fundamentally not being good enough to be loved for who they are.
She talked about this. That's not an action based justification for shame. It's something that we feel shameful for some reason that's within us. Talking about it makes us make sense of it. And we can work on why the fuck we feel that way. It's the "unjustified" shame she said, you have to talk it out!
I completely disagree with her analysis- there is so much nuance to shame and ways to react to it, instead of the oversimplification she expresses in this video
The problem is therapists need a quick, simple and effective method of dealing with shame. In some ways the reasons for the shame are actually a red herring. If it isn't justified then dwelling on it isn't productive.
Ok so I had 7 of 9 traits of BPD and was under narcissistic abuse by my daughters father for 7-8 years now...I broke away and found a church and rebuilt my life with our 6 year old high functioning autistic daughter...he still controls me and I feel my BPD is still being antagonized here...oh im also fully diagnosed with narcolepsy and cataplexy...fibromyalgia among other auto immune disorders how would you help me???
I think I might be confused. For me if no one had every risked speaking out challenging “ social norms” then things like gay rights may never have developed. Is abandoning yourself to fit as for example Berné brown talks about or keeping yourself small any healthier. Keep your mouth shut advice scares me a bit. It could be that I don’t understand. Of you don’t have to speak out. I takes more courage than many have the resources. Many understandably choose safe and attachment over authenticity and autonomy but it is still painful and kind or means you must kill yourself of, disconnect from your own judgement, thoughts, feelings, preferences, needs etc. I am personally grateful for the people who don’t keep their mouth shut, without judging those who feel they need to. If more people could share their truth and support each and speak truth to power then things might be able to change outside of dominance structure that only serve the few rather than exploring ways to get nearer to a win win for all. I’m not saying I am absolutely right or no all answers to everything and I might be misunderstanding something but honest my gut reaction to this was it felt unsettling, uncomfortable and maybe fearful and I have thoughts that it doesn’t seem what I would call or understand as progressive, whilst understanding that that is not what everybody wants and there has been a strong backlash against all that for some period of time now.. Ideas and thoughts of advocating blind conformity, internalise oppression come up for me. It is not necessary and sign of health to be well adjusted to a sick society.
So, You tell about abuse in your family and get kick out, ( community) or get kick out because you talk back to the narcissist in you family and that's why you feel so ashame? Make sense.
This is a bizarre video. I can see her points but I think they are a bit muddied here and are open to misinterpretation. I'm also confused that the advice is to keep your mouth shut about suicide in therapy opposed to get another therapist (or advice therapists they need to be a shame free place.) Is this a marketing ploy for this movie? It's almost as if the topic is not fully fleshed out on purpose in order to seem controversial.
I didn't like that she seemed to find equivalence between child(baby) molestation and being lgbtq. Yes, talking about either, the latter clearly societal prejudice, which is much reduced now and protected by civil rights laws, could get you in trouble, but the molesting is morally wrong, destructive to another and indicates something really dangerous and horrible about the offender (who may not feel guilt). Marsha!
Whilst I agree, for decades you could be imprisoned for being gay. In many countries being gay is punishable by death. So yes, even though its not the same as child molestation, some cultures treat it like it is. Its very sad.
But she wasn't, she was contrasting them-- they're two very different situations in which you might feel the emotion of shame, the function of which is to get you to hide behavior that would result in ostracism or major social consequences from most people. The idea that Marsha is somehow saying that child molestation is okay or that being gay is wrong misses the point. Shame is a different emotion from guilt, and it has to do with societal standards. Guilt is the emotion that has a message about what is right and wrong, which is often different than what is accepted and what isn't.
I dunno where you're getting hardass from-- maybe some more Marsha Linehan videos would give you a clearer idea of who she is. She's definitely talking about shame from the standpoint of effectiveness-- what works and what doesn't. I honestly think of her as a little goofy and eccentric. I don't think DBT is about "tough" love, either, therapists treat their clients with unconditional positive regard. Prior to Marsha the most popular treatment for borderline, if you got treatment at all, was to be pestered into "admitting" all your issues were rooted in anger until it broke you.
