Shermer with John McWhorter-Neoracists Posing as Antiracists & Their Threat to Progressive America 

I will listen/read/watch anything involving John McWhorter. He always gives me new perspective

Listening to John McWhorter is always refreshing and enlightening.

John’s economy of words, and general command of the English language, allows him to really drive a point home. He has an amazing ability to convey complex ideas in a way that is easily digestible for laypeople, such as myself.

John McWhorter, whom I greatly admire and respect, is a man of immense intellect and integrity. TY for interviewing him. Would love for you to interview Chloe Valdary about her Theory of Enchantment program.

"They're performing and everyone knows it. In a way, they're speaking in tongues." Great content.

I first heard John in discussion with Sam Harris and was just hooked on his every word. Looking forward to see and hear more from him. Thank you for having him on.

Thank you , John McWarter, for your brave, independent, very deep and factual thinking. Always inspiring and educational to listen to you. Taking lots of notice, learning to live up to your level of honesty and objectivity. Thank you 🙏 .

Can't wait to read his book! Been waiting for it.

We see sooo much content where people are simply reacting or “whining” About this neo racist culture, but it usually isn’t too academic. Finally, we have a cogent, coherent, substantive analysis / an alternative path forward. More of this!!! Less reactionaries!

I think one point is missing: it is about power between people in power that fight over power by virtue signaling using black people.

John McWhorter, brilliant as usual. I’d slightly critique his analysis @ minute 42. Differences in crime are predicted somewhat by being poor, but a better (and correlating) predictor is “having grown up poor”; it’s differences in developmental-environment, more so that current-environment, that predict disparate outcomes. We call poverty a childhood “risk-factor” for a reason; we mean “risk of ... teen pregnancy, prior education outcomes, low income and employment, substance abuse, crime...”. This has subtle but meaningful implications to his analysis.

Shermer and McWhorter, two very intelligent people, defeating strawman arguments left and right. And feeling incredibly good about themselves for doing it. 🥱

I was the one who sent the three emails that day about Tony. And I've been communicating with Tony's mom and I gave Tony's mom the contact information for John McWhorter

great talk... a breath of fresh air... comforting that there are still intelligent people talking out loud...

I loved the way Thomas Sowell set Francis Fox Piven straight on the point that she is mistaken on how black people think

This was amazing! Also love how it ended, “Thank you for your work...and your friendship.” 😊

I've never heard of this guest until now. What a great mind, I can't wait to get stuck into his books.

I love listening to McWhorter. His two new books sound right up my street too, so I be happy to support him by picking them up when they are available.

Theory: Almost everybody falls in love with John McWhorter the first time they hear him speak.

25:40 we have a Hitchhikers guide moment, and it goes unacknowledged? Cmon Michael.

John is obviously the "must have" interview for everyone with a podcast or TV show. AND, the deserves the attention!

I was pulled over and I put my hands on the steering wheel, looked straight forward and waited for the cop to talk. He asked me if I came from a police family. I answered; "Just honorary uncles; my mom dated the sheriff's department." He just laughed and let me go.

Just pre-ordered a copy of Nine Nasty Words: English in the Gutter: Then, Now, and Forever. Always excited to see what new things Dr. McWhorter has to say about development of languages; expect that his take on this specific variety of maledicta will be spicy.

Thanks for your attempts at steelmanning the BLM position, Michael. This made this interview much better than the conversation with Helen Pluckrose

I'm White and Gay and I go out into the world everyday and I almost never hear anything homophobic or racist by anyone. What I hear occasionally are sexist remarks by women towards Straight White Men and less frequently the reverse of sexist remarks towards women. The world just isn't that bad anymore.

Michael, your "ads" for Great Courses are probably the ONLY ads I've ever been happy to hear again, reminding me to get the product. Keep reminding me, plz!😄

Great seeing John McWorther here

Yessss, love John McWhorter!

Thank you both for such an eloquent discussion. Hopefully we are pushing against extremes.

If I even suggest to some of the people I know to watch this, they will instantly call me racist and right radicalized. It really hurts my feelings when they do that, I even say so to them, which makes them angrier. What is the point of having these ideas and having these conversations if the people who need to hear it will outright refuse on moral grounds?

The problem with representation is that it always goes one-way, meaning we don't discuss the "overrepresentation" of blacks in the world of basketball while we urgently need to discuss the lack of black Formula 1 drivers.

I've loved Michael Shermer for many many years! Its great to find him on YT, I'm now subscribed!

Wow, what a great discussion. Michael Shermer show is one of the best conversational shows on RU-vid.

McWhorter=click, with a Shermer skeptical thoughts bonus. Excellent!

I remember this guy from somewhere happily surprised at with this conversation!

Ive been following *The Elect* by John ... Much appreciated John ... You are doing the hard work for everyone else's benefit

My dad once told me "you can never convince a man of anything it's in his financial interest not to understand"... Explains Ibram pretty easily.

Brilliant, articulate man. Hope to hear him again here

Great discussion. I admire both of you. Thanks.

Love this. Thank you -

I want to add that I have found that there is lots to learn from people who think differently from me. I am a christian and a right winger. I learned lots listening to two atheist liberals talk. I find it interesting that just because you don't agree on everything does not mean that you can't learn new things from them. I was once guilty of ideological bigotry, over the past few years I think that I have mostly overcame that.

Just a small point about the "woke" = "religion" metaphor. It would be nice if J.M. would distinguish between "religion" (all the great religious traditions of humanity that have endured for millenia) and "cultic fundamentalist ideologies." Like many atheists, JM doesn't "steel-man" theism. He should consider David Bentley Hart's argument in his book God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss in which God ("the Father") is defined as "Being." And M.S. is mistaken to reduce Christian beliefs to mere story that are not believed (by thinking Christians) to be based on actual historical fact. It is true that many Liberal Protestants and nominal Roman Catholics (like the man referred to in this interview who said "I don't believe this is true, its just part of my faith") view the gospels as merely moral stories (that are not fact-based), but classically orthodox Christians (who are not fundamentalists in that other sense) have always claimed that their faith is based on actual historical events even if they cannot be proven scientifically. Whether they are right or not is a separate matter, but that has always been the orthodox Christian claim....that Jesus was a real historical figure who died on a cross, whose body went missing and was never found because, according to orthodox Christians, he was literally resurrected and appeared to hundreds of people over the course of another 40 days before he ascended to heaven in some mystical manner. That, for what its worth, is what orthodox Christians have always believed. So yes, JM would regard such unprovable things as fairy tales, but that is still different than the "fundamentalist" aspect of the Woke ideology. Not all religion is fundamentalist, although there is overlap.

The wealth of info in this podcast makes it a more than once listen.

Some people are concerned about mining for racism anywhere they can and some people are engineering ways to save the species from climate change and building infrastructure in impoverished countries, making vaccines, feeding kids etc. Just the difference between those two types of person says alot I believe.

Helluva guest. Thanks Michael.

McWhorter is the most honest man in America today. God bless his courage and insight into the truth of how we are being manipulated by our masters.

Just found your channel and immediately wished it was called the Michael Shermer Showmer. Obviously the Michael Showalter Showalter spoiled me.

John McWhorter - keep on speaking the truth. i love listening to your talks. i get more answers from you than any woke crowd.

This makes me hopeful!

Great guest!

Kudos to both of you. Well-phrased questions, pithy responses.

Love listening to John McWorter speak. He’s a very intelligent man. Although I don’t always agree with him his answers are always very well thought out. Keep up the good work John.

Great discussion.

Great 👍 conversation- went to substack and subscribed! So much to digest

If I voiced anything like what John McWhortor said, I’d lose almost all of my friends. I think this is the reality a lot of us live in.

I am an atheist also and I'm worried about what my child is learning. Its been sneaking in and I've had to be on top of what is being taught and actively seek out reources that explain the truth instead of lefty nonsense. I too am exploring Catholic schools however a crazy one in NYC was very woke AND Catholic so it isn't any guarantee.

I love John McWhorter. He is a true gem.

I once looked around my dentist's waiting room, and (gasp!) it did NOT mirror the racial/ethnic breakdown of the country. I guess it must mean that my dentist is racist.

"The sacred status of black people as victims". Spot on! I've heard so many black people wax lyrically about the GLORIOUS struggle as if somehow this makes them better and more special. The irony in this is that in the same breath they say "We shouldn't have had to struggle in the way we did. And we no longer struggle in the way we did...BUT we ARE better for the struggle. We are better for the suffering that we've endured at the hands of those who made us suffer BUT they're bad people for making us struggle and suffer unnecessarily. We hate/love you. Or we hate/use you."

25:40-yes, “42” the answer to the great question of life, the universe, and everything!

Wow how refreshing

1:02 and John hits his trifecta of nemesis Ibrahim, Coates, and Hannah-jones. 🤣😂

"The oboe plays a minor part in black culture."

Absolutely loved this conversation - I think it's time for Michael Shermer to invite Rupert Sheldrake and have a lovely conversation that can demonstrate rational, imaginative, civilized people discussing subjects, world views and even just ideas peacefully in a way that entertains and positively enlightens everyone involved and everyone watching.

Great podcast as always.

Sadly, I think NPR writer is treating the issue the way an American social scientist would approach it in our day. The "social sciences" are extremely "woke" and has been for years.

Nicely done

Ibram X. Kendi and other woksters won't debate McWhorter or Shermer because they are winning without having to debate.

This book is so very necessary.

I will be with you until the end of an age.

8:45 when he talks about 'people who consider themselves the saviors of black people are actually hurting blacks' it reminds me of Walter Williams 'Good Intentions' video on YT.

Hey John. HUGE fan of yours. Sometimes I call it 'Racism 2.0". Not expecting this to become your subtitle, but I thought I may as well tell you!

I think ‘Paving with good intentions’ (as in The road to hell is...) could be a good subtitle.

54:12 The Chris Rock reference in question can be found on RU-vid under "how not to get your ass kicked by the police". Absolutely f'in hilarious short from his sketch comedy show back in the early 2000's. IMO, it hasn't only aged well, but has actually gotten funnier as the absurdities of the BLM narrative on police violence have emerged into the mainstream.

When I would see a person elevated above other more qualified candidates, and have to look away from their struggling, it was disheartening.

Hey John, you got “lie low” correct. So rare to hear nowadays!

Gotta love John McWhorter!

What a cool guy! I like him!

As for Catholic schools in England it depends .... some are getting woke while others are still ok in my experience. Thank you for a great discussion.

I used to support BLM back in the Trayvon/Mike Brown era. The era I guess no one else was paying attention to because very few people remember the BLM sniper in Dallas who acted as a book end to that era when he was *BLOWN UP BY A ROBOT* after killing like 9 cops and refusing to negotiate with a white cop (HOW DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THIS?). But one day, while I was still a supporter, I saw a little factoid on Facebook that said something like “blacks make up 14% of America but are 24% of people killed by cops, END RACISM NOW!”. And I was lit up by this data point. To that moment I didn’t know we had that kind of data collected in America. So, I started digging in to everything I could find on the subject of race, policing, crime, interacial crime, police shootings etc. and *nothing has made me oppose BLM more than knowing the basic facts that show BLM to be a kind of mythology that is almost perfectly inverted from reality.* Since BLM presents this idea that black people are under a real present threat from the violence of racist whites/cops. I’ve made my own factoid, based on an amalgamation of various data points and here it is. Black Americans (14% of pop) kill more white Americans (60% of pop) than whites + cops kill blacks combined. Blacks unjustly kill more cops every year we have good data for, than cops unjustly kill blacks. Which is made much much worse when you realize there are like +50x more black Americans than there are cops. Every data point of fact or study I can find, shows that black Americans are not the victims, but are the *Victimizers!* It’s just that the media and activists don’t focus on the victims of blacks violence even 1/1000th as much as they do the victims of white/cop violence. Giving people the exact inverse perception of reality. Also, of all black Americans killed by another human annually, blacks unjustly killed by cops makes up literally less than 0.01%. Meaning BLM is centered around ignoring the literal 99.99% of “black lives” which do not fit their narrative of black victimization and white racism. And ironically, even the cases they do cherry pick out of the fray, are never actually proven to be racist. The racism is simply assumed because of the race of the people involved. It’s as if they imagine there is no circumstance where a white cop can kill a blacks person, and it NOT BE RACISM. That’s blasphemy in their mythos.

Great find here. A shermer show is a fucking great idea. Instantly subbed.

John is awesome.

I'm kind of stumped at 26:40 on holding a belief which isn't examinable

None of us chooses the family that we are born into! As with nurture vs nature the formative years are crucial! Kids are curious and want to be able to express themselves but they do need guidance. The most important thing that I learned from my mother was love! Not only in word but always in deed! That's my hope for the world and individual people!

It's an interesting debate. With the issue of 'redlining' and, as John puts it, being no longer legal, a case could be made that, for instance, most wealth is a result of inheritance ( your parents offer up a down payment as a result of their equity, or help with college costs) , people of color havent had that same legacy ownership that most others have currently. Something to consider.

I am with John.

Wow, you mean it took until 2021 to realize it’s CLASS ?

Better Background!

The routine and systemic affirmation of unhealthy thoughts and unquestioned perspectives is training people to accept individual feelings as factual without any critical evaluation, which cannot end well.

LOVE McWhorter, can't wait for the book. I'll say though: not just black people but ALL Americans need an end to the vicious and counter productive war on drugs and ALL need access to long term contraception. D.A., J.D. (atty-writer) NYC

5:30 start of the conversation.

Michael; your own podcast is much better than being watered down on 'Scientific American': John; a delight to hear you anywhere, anytime.

54:12 Reference to Chris Rock's - How not to get your ass kicked by the Police "cause everybody knows if the cops have to chase you they're bringing an ass whooping with them"

I didn't know John McWhorter teaches music history. Very interesting.

Systemic racism is to sociology what intelligent design is to cosmology. (Or at least seems so.)

John McWhorter is awesome.

"Race" is such a bad word for grouping skin color, makes it sound like a competition

Black proud boys: currently numbering at roughly 300 so far just saying

50:07 Even if they do have training, if someone grabs them the immediate concern is they'll take weapon. Not sure if Jocko was talking about this with that in mind. I recall Jocko talking about police using chokeholds to put someone resisting to sleep, and how that is preferable to beating a suspect into unconsciousness and severely injuring them in the process. The holds are safer overall though they were banned because in rare instances when applied incorrectly one or more people died.

30:10 - not just religion, but fundamentalist cult like religion. Not all faiths are blind followers that believe/ obey/ follow w/o any critical thought or questioning.