Shocking Truth about my Airplane - Vans RV12 

After working for 30+ years for a major aircraft mfg I can assure you that all mfgs have issues with new aircraft going in to service. These can be structural, systems, powerplant, vibration related, or just about anything else. This includes boeing and airbus. They have an army of structural engineers and numerous test rigs to simulate loads on primary structure and they still get surprised by cracks or damage from firm landings etc. Vans don’t have anywhere close to those kinds of resources and some of these issues don’t show up until many 100s of hours or different kinds of operating environments are encountered. I don’t believe this has anything to do with the design being rushed. It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that this aircraft had to meet a weight limitation so there could be no extra structural reinforcement and skin thicknesses had to be kept to a minimum.

I personally have owned a 2017 RV12 SLSA, It was a great airplane and I had not had any big issues with it. All airplanes go through growing pains. Don't buy experimental airplanes if you are afraid of them.

We have four new RV12’s at our flight school in Naples, FL. (Rexair) It’s a great plane, easy to fly and land, responsive, great view, and fabulous avionics. We’ve made a number of actual cross country flights without a single issue and hardly any weather delays. Our instructors were at first skeptical, now it’s everyone’s favorite plane. If you haven’t flown an RV12, you’re missing out.

Certified standard category airplanes don’t have to comply with Service Bulletins, only Airworthiness Directives.

Great video. You are so right about the handling of RV designs. Just superb.

I really enjoy flying my brother's -12is. Light and delightful controls with great balance across aileron, rudder, and stabilator. Great visibility. Great t/o and climb performance with the injected 912. The castoring nose wheel with steering via differential braking is not my favorite, but then, every airplane has it's peculiarities.

Great video. I have the tail kit mostly done and maybe half of the fuse kit done. Already have done several SBs on the tail but more have come up since I’ve paused the build due to life. It’s annoying to have these come up but if you built the plane yourself you aren’t afraid of them. Hopefully I’ll get mine done some day and have a great airplane like you said. I did a demo flight before starting the build and it was the best flying plane I’ve ever flown. My comparison is 172’s, 150/152’s, , Cherokees, my own Champ, Cubs, Kolbs, etc. So admittedly I’ve not flown much in the performance category but the RV12 is so much more responsive and light on the controls than all of those. I am not too worried about the Chapter 11 as I don’t have that much invested compared to others. I think it will work out but if not I can mount the tail on the roof of my house and make it look like an airplane crashed into my house.

I can tell you really take care of your airplane. I am still stuck on boats, but have always wanted to get an experimental airplane. Still on my bucket list. Great video all around quality!

As a part owner of an RV-12 for a while, I have to say that I was never really comfortable with having the fuel tank in the cockpit. The advantage is that it allows for the wings to be removable. One of the other owners experienced an alternator failure (actually a stator failure and that's a whole other story) 800 miles from home. That made it possible to retrieve the airplane on a trailer. That needed to be done because, despite the common nature of the Rotax engine, there is no corresponding availability of A&Ps who are certified or willing to work on Rotaxes. While I was involved with the airplane we chased various issues with the carburetors and the engine ignition modules. When the engine got to about 1600 hours, we decided to replace it with a new engine. Compared to the typical $12-15K cost of a Continental O-200 rebuild, the new Rotax cost $23K. We did recover $5K on the sale of the previous engine, but the lack of overhaul options on the Rotax is something that should be considered by potential owners. The aforementioned stator speaks to a design choice that I question. On a typical engine, the alternator is an external component and it takes about an hour to replace one. The Rotax has the alternator as part of the flywheel assembly at the back of the engine which requires either special tools or removal of the engine. What would be a simple repair on a Continental or Lycoming is a major repair with the Rotax.

Gorgeous aircraft Pedro. Mint clean and maintained. Great presentation with honesty balanced with experience. I'd keep it too! Glad you missed all the cracked rivets on the firewall in many current RVs...

I have flown several light sport aircraft and I really liked the way the RV-12 handles and flies. Very well balanced in roll and pitch. I considered purchasing one, but never did. I didn’t know they had this many notices. Thanks for that.

I trained in the 12iS. The wing removal and pitot tube seemed strange, I didn't like the lack of a parachute for its weight, but it's a basic fun LSA with some of the best control feel.

Very cool and very professional, all normal…thank you!

When i was learning to fly my flight instructor would create a fault for you to find when doing your preflight check but he didn't do it all the time it made sure you really give the aircraft preflight and it always stuck with me i would highly recommend other instructors do this and you really get to know the aircraft and you can spot a fault quickly

Fine ride and another good vid! Thanks

Good video. I have been a fan of vans ever since the RV4/6 days. I have thought of building a RV10 but that looks like a lot of work. The RV12 or RV14 might be more my speed. Nothing you mentioned scares me away, it just makes sense to have a lot of bulletins. The nice part about experimental is you can do the work yourself and manage the maintenance. Thanks again for the video. All the best!

You have a very nice aircraft inside and out! I had flown a number of years and operated several general aviation certified planes. The only experimental I had flown was a Long EZ the belonged to a friend of mine. It was quite a performer for it's power and weight combination. I like that your generation is doing their due diligence on legal and cost research to fly more often and safely. New certified aircraft is getting too difficult to obtain and maintain. Blue skies!

I’ve built a 12IS in Australia. I did get pretty annoyed with all the Service Directives. Easy enough to do as the builder but bloody annoying.

My brother made his RV8, took enough years, fun, safe plain, easy to over correct on landing mistakes. Being able to take the tank out to alter or repair the panel is not a bad thing, be thankful you are not doing that from inside the cockpit

Great info awesome looking aircraft good job! :o)

Thanks for sharing your experiences with the RV-12 It is a beautiful aircraft! So do you know if they have changed the kits to reflect all the fix's. I'd love to hear your comments on the RV-9A and RV-10A as to the bad Fix's

Great Video. I have done a lot of Light Sport Service and Flight instruction. About 5,000 hours in LS alone and while the RV 12 does fly very well, working on them is difficult. For a few knots extra the cowl is too tight.This has resulted in many issues. When in Florida are you? Best, Dave

i was wanting to buy my own plane about the time Zenith was seeing a lot of crashes. i thought light sport kits were a way to get into flyimg without spending the kids college money. in the end i found an older 152 for 13'k and spent another on repars an engine overhaul. I kept all the original steam guages and VOR and voice radios, added a transponder a few years ago I came across a low hour CH 750 stol There had not been any major problems with that airframe so I felt more comfortable with it. It has a 10 hp Subaru up front but I think when I get to the overhul point I, Im gonna swap in a Viking to save some weith. I love the STOL for weekend camping in the mountains and I have taken up several ranchers to survey their more remote section when they are looking for small groups of cattle or sheep. So the STOL feature has been a door opener for me because I m free to camp, fish and hunt anytime I like on about 300,000 acres in the northern rockes and I know I will be the only one there. There is a Vans RV 7 at our airport and the owner and I have swapped stick time on several occassions. His is a whole bunch faster than my planes but it is wonderfully easy to fly, Myh only issue with the 750 is power. We can get some highly localized weather conditions. Lst summer I went up just to burn a few gallons on a clouless day. On the way home I hit an area of unforecasted head winds, I ground away two hours of fuel to make 43 miles before I got out of that and back into calmer skies. I was pretty low on fuel so I reinstated my rule of never taking off without filling the tanks. The nice part about the Subaru is I can run it on 91 octane pump gas so instead of $9 for avgas at the FBO I'm fueling at $4.10 I bought a 100 gallon tank and pump for the back of my old truck so it's my personal bowser. Life is good in Light Sport world

Thanks for the great Video. Can you give me the more info on Teflon water hose. size/brand, where to bye ? I want for my Rv 12.

If you don’t build it or know how to look at structure for damage or weak areas just write a check again for a Cessna and have it inspected every year. Experimental with Rotax is constant inspection/refinement process .

1st comment response I make when asked about the 12 is the horrendous number of SBs. One really has to wonder who designed this and their qualifications. OTOH, gear problems -- realize that the demonstrators are typically used for transition training (and on the 12 especially) by newbie pilots and frequently landing on rough (back country-like) airports, so one can expect hard strut stresses imposed. But yeah, overall good airplane with ridiculous SB history. I did my counterweight change WAY before that SB was issued cuz I found my counterweight hanging (but had not yet fallen off) during one of my annual condition inspections. Another (but no SB issued) is the extreme camber on the main gear. Notice the wear on the outer treads of your tires. Can easily wear out tires in a couple hundred (if not a single hundred) hours and need them to be flipped around. I made some shims to reduce the camber from the factory 6* per axle down to 1.5* per axle and now the tires wear in the center, with the tire being changed at the 5 year time limit rather than because of wear (still LOTS of tread left after 5 years). And the hose change is EXPENSIVE -- and I agree, first change, go teflon. Factory hoses are teflon ONLY for the fuel hoses ...

I think many of the SB's on the Van's fleet are from ABUSE, from pilots who should not be teaching themselves aerobatic maneuvers and any other type high G and high roll rate maneuvering. I get it, light stick forces and clean design are FUN!. But, proper training and technique, to minimize stresses is essential for safety. I also think improper ground handling causes excessive abuse on the nose gear system. Fly these as you would a tail dragger. Always, stick full back for all taxiing and try to use the soft-field takeoff and landing technique. One issue with the TIG welding process in many of the steel assemblies is they are not heat treated (stress relieved) after the TIG process. Both of my steps failed at a TIG weld (RV6A)

Do you have a ballpark (or specific figure) on how much all those SB's cost? Curious to know how much you've had to spend on them in addition to the original purchase price of the plane. Great content!

Mosaic rules will see some very interesting aircraft coming to market. I am looking into the shark, TL stream, TL sparker, tarragon, and flight design F2.

I gave serious consideration to purchasing the LSA version of the RV-12, five years ago. I flew to the factory for a test flight. I also planned a stop at SLING (The Airplane Factory) in Torrance CA. Long story short, I ordered a SLING 2, LSA. It’s been 5 + years, appears I made the right choice.

great info, A&P and private pilot looking to build one of those :)

So… I watched this video for the first time a bit ago. Based on the content expressed I am truly pleased with the airplane. The very few items mentioned, either airframe or power plant seem extremely light and manageable from my perspective. I am frankly at a loss as to why anyone would think differently. The only thing that I can respond with would be something like this… if you’re displeased with the very few and minor Issues then you probably ought to look at the Ad’s for any one of a couple of other aircraft… such as Hughes 500, or a Piper Turboprop model… those would really upset your apple cart ! Any way, maybe perspective is skewed and I’m living in an altered reality. Good day all and Merry Christmas!

Do you have a list of hoses you used for the coolant hose replacement? Need to do the same.,

I have a similarly designed airplane, a Bristell with the Rotax 915 engine. Flies great, has plenty of power, great airplane for the mountains where I live. I do have connector issues and wondering if you have the same problem. Usually happens with Lane B where I get a warning light and the engine runs roughly if on that lane. The fix has generally been to clean connectors and apply electrolytic grease. This is just an observation of engines in general, but it seems that Rotax engines have a lot more connectors than other engines…more to go wrong.

so approximately what did it cost to comply with all these issues?

Why don't you add extra welding to the weak spots?

Excellent video. Nor afraid to show how the results of hasty marketing remove some of the joy of ownership. Thanks for the honesty.

great video but I thought you were going to list these costs? $$$

Not sure what you mean about the Teflon coolant hose, this looks like silicone to me. Probably more durable than the original nitrile rubber though.

I’ve flown in the 12. Nice plane. Not the easiest to get in and out of. I don’t like having the gas tank in the cabin. I fly a CTLSi high wing Elsa. I like having a parachute. It saved me once. N121YT.

It’s a little beauty. Do the supports on main landing gear before metal stress should begin to present problems. I say a student pilot performing first solo. She lost one wheel on her 172 and was warned by tower. It was an emotional mess for her. Obvious problem was keeping cool and not stop flying until her instructor got to tower to instruct her. She trusted him and brought herself under control quickly which saved her. She brought it in successfully. You mentioned your plane in comparison with 172. Please choose wisdom and follow the service bulletin. A student plane gets beat up with more hard landings than yours but don’t ever take it for granted. Change it out.

You are a very patient and forgiving person. Was considering a RV-15...I think i will pass. Appreciate you sharing your experiences!!!

A bunch of the Cherry Max Rivets on your tail cone and near your fuel cap are not pulled correctly, which means the stem of the rivet is not snapped off correctly, the length of the rivet is likely wrong or there may be a gap in the underlying skin. Any Cherry that doesn’t pull correctly is not giving the structural strength it was designed for and will start to work loose as time goes by.

Beautiful airplane.

I remember many years ago when there were a bunch of Zenith 601s that crashed. many those had wings come off. so, i bet Vans owners aooreciate getting a pile of notices rather than none

changed the gas tank on ky design from under ghe seat into the wing roots with st least 1 kevlar and several inches of fire proof foam between me and the tanks...and possibly go metal despite the higher weight, simply bcs i don,t want to sit in an cage after a crash soaked in gasoline or whatever...one who has seen gasoline melt plastic and ever got burnt or seen other after they git just into a gasoline vapor blast...well, you don,t sit in the same cage as your gas tank, never...!

The bad? I'd rather have a company like Vans sending service bulletins, and offering parts and instructions for "fixing" them. every single certified aircraft have AD's and service letters......this is nothing new... at all....

11:36 Teflon? I think you meant Silicone hoses..

The answer to all the questions are plainly announced and revealed at the back of the cockpit - "EXPERIMENTAL". All you need to know a few seconds before you transfer your cash. It doesnt claim to be a Cessna

If you had to list everything you would want in a plane, what would that list look like?

Crazy

Can anyone indicate where he got the blue, teflon coolant hoses? Experimental only, non certified?

What is being used for the redundant horizon source? This set up is ok for IFR currency in VFR. Without that fully redundant AI this isn’t legal for actual IMC.

You do not have to comply with technical service bulletins. They are advisory in nature only. You must comply with AD's.

You flew that thing to the Bahamas? My flying rule was no flying over significant water without a twin or turbine.

That much downtime and financial punishment, and still a happy owner. It must fly like a dream.

Nothing new regarding SBs on a newer model. Try flying/owning a newer Cessna 😳 you have to have DEEP pockets.

Would you be willing to tell us how much you paid for it? I would love to know what this plane in this condition cost.

Vans doesn't want their planes dropping out of the sky. That's how every service notice should be looked at.

All of these airplanes they try to shoehorn into the light sport category are built lightweight and flimsy similar to a mountain bike. It’s like flying an eggshell….

Cost per hour to fly is what?

LSAs are typically half decent because it tends to be more modern thinking but I'm a strong believer that a plane should be made of composites in as few parts as possible. Because a carbon fiber fuselage can be rigid as just a thin shell with no frames or stringers and that's just hard to beat for weight, simplicity and resistance to fatigue. And if aviation advances from WW2 to the jet age of the 1960s we could have both natural engine redundancy and out of body rear placement so we don't need a firewall nor the aesthetic homicide that is the front noise maker.

I have a zenith 601, so I was curious for a review of the RV-12. I just didn’t expect 12 of the 14 minute video spent going over ADs….

Wow

Its just the repeated love letters about "cracking" that give me pause.

Should you explain that most SBs done apply to later builds and, for those that do, they are one time fixes and are not relevant once complied with (even though you decided not to replace the nose bracket for one time fix)? Know anything about certificated aircraft in their first (and second) year of production? E.g. Bonanzas, Comanches, Remoses, etc. This is a highly misleading (and more than a bit whiny) report on the RV-12. Note: I dont own one. I have to guess that this is the first plane you have owned. GA aircraft are not BMWs with required dealer maintenance. (Or an electric scoooter, haha.)

How hard would it have been to prepare a list of SB’s prior to recording the video if the point of doing so was to inform of the issues?

Seems like a LOT of design issues. Too many parts cracking and falling apart.

That's a whole lota 2's!

Vans makes good plane kits but I do think they rushed things with the RV12. At least they are trying to help the aviation community have affordable options which is more than many other companies are doing (cessna). I hope the FAA wakes up to the fact that general aviation is dying and adopts new rules to save it. We need planes that are more affordable, or we will see hundreds of small airports close their doors and no new pilots enter the fray to replace those that are quickly dying off.

It’s like a flying egg shell there are so many cracks to watch out for 😅

Maybe I missed it. Are you a AP?

Oh yes, its named expirimental 🤣

I kind of found the corrections hilarious.

S/E aircraft over open ocean? No bueno👨‍✈️

My Ford Focus has more service bulletins than that

1000' to you is STOL ? 😂

Homeboy looks like jim jones

glad I can't afford a plane now

Before each flight the pilot is the only person who can say if an airplane and engine is safe. Are you capable? Are you smart enough to shut down the engine, get out of the plane, put the chocks back under the tires, get in your car and drive home? You better be if you wish to stay alive. If you don't find the problem no one else will

wouldn,t we ask for our money back wehn we git sold junk that is not working savely? cased closed and reading the rv forum with JOKES about people dying in older verisons and how many cracks one has in his bird made me think that rv s are not my cup of tea...besides thta a blid person with minimal technical design training can see that those brackest are unnecessary loaded with an extra leverage...as i also saw on kany mayn talwheels concocted in US homebuilts! but my channel was almist deleted bcs some dude building a corvaire was complaining anout me after his 3 rd attempt to let his break up again...all i saw on technical data and some very idioticly short service intervals (24 hrs? really? ) of anything regarding landing gears, my impression is that besides the main players in GA manufactoring....most small airplanes have bad landing gears with flawed leveraged momentum designs, whells that hardly even out the wieght on soft fields, cracks in all kinds of stuff....and then there are people digging down on the landing strip like crazy with their 3 wheelers...no trad. gear setup would allow that...and more than 2'to 3 G are not really intended for safety on any landing gear! thats written in the oapers! if the wuote" or change it if you find anything better than ours" is really true...id. try to get my money back! 🤷‍♀️that,s a safety issue! but my personal idea seeing those blueprints tells me that is not a good design...high stress concentration, long leverages needlessly dienwards and horizontally...sorry...but thanks for showing amd surely not an RV...and no CriCri either! i read a 10 pages long owners repirt yesterday eveening about crakcs, engine outs, deaht spirals, loosing parts like the rudder or stuff...and mostly bcs of alterations done by builders or the former Us importer...🤔stay safe! and we all should check on the papers and blueprints in advance BEFORE deciding what to buy or build...

Who pays for these safety modifications? If it is the owners then I think they have been badly served. Fair enough if the aircraft is several years old, but some things on this list are undoubtedly due to poor design and quality control.

This is what I think about "Service Bulletins " Service Bulletins is just another way of saying "Recall" just like the car manufacture do. This is another way aircraft manufactures are saying, "We screwed up, now come spend your money for new parts." Van and others should be held accountable for their "bad" parts/design(s) As for your nose wheel bracket, and engine mount standoffs, among others, if they are cracking/breaking, they are a bad design and Vans should be sending you new ones @ no cost!

Would you rather that Vans did not issue service bulletins? If so, you are in the wrong business, sport.

The shocking truth is that I award all titles containing shocking truth with a thumbs down and a please grow the fu ckup.

no thanks...

What I learned from this: Vans can't weld.

So basically, don’t buy one. They can’t haul, cant go anywhere, arent fast and are maintenance nightmares that seem like the spend more time on the ground anyway Noted

dognmikeRv

Wow I just flew in one of these. No more!

You are the most dangerous thing in the airplane.

What ever you do, don't buy a boat....

You need to get rid of that nose wheel cover. In any area known to have issues why would u make it difficult to inspect? Asking for a disaster if that " issue " with the front fork appears wile u are about to take off. Don't let something get u hurt or hurt someone else because the wheelpant is too difficult to take off and inspect routinely. That's just lazy and laziness gets a lot of pilots killed! Leave it off. Are u gonna let 3 or 4 mph increase in speed get u hurt? What else on the aircraft are u being negligible about because it's a "pain" to inspect?

*****EX....PER...I....MEN.....TAL. That's French for "you gonna do a lot more work by yourself."

I guess that's why all men name their AC after women.

Is this guy a bank manager or other non-engineer? "Or something like that". SBs and ADs are there to improve safety. That means your neck is potentially being saved with each SB. Don't knock the system. I suggest you go and buy a boat.

Note to self, never buy a Vans.

Some of your comments were way off base. The prop and engine have no bearing on Vans. Name another manufacturer that does what Vans does, you can’t. Very disappointing video.

So you offer yourself as a spokesman regarding your experience with your RV12, yet your presentation is full of after production corrections. If you want to be seen as more knowledgeable, get your facts in order first. Otherwise, you hurt your credibility.

Double check that stabilator always. I had a very good friend killed in the initial test flight of an RV12. I believe the trim failed and or the stabilator paremeters were set incorrectly and during an attempt to hold the aircraft down for a fast strip run the tail stalled and fell sendind the aircraft into a vertical climb from which it did not recover.. stall spin fatal.. two other incidents in the USA that I looked into where the trim servo failed both went into vertical climbs.... the pilots pulled power the aircraft fell with damage and injuries... Take care... Vans has a good reputation but I would not own the 12...