@@eumaies Absolutely ! With Arisaka Type 38 rifles (Mausser inspired), Western inspired cannons, and almost perfect Carl von Clausewitz military doctrine. With Which also they completely obliterated the Sinno Sun Tzu stile armies during the First Sino-Japanese War 1894-95. Read von Clausewitz "on War" to understand how and why the Western military doctrine, cleverly embraced and modded by Japan, dominated 200 years of military conquest.
Clausewitz And Sun Tzu also contradicted western assumption of west and east. Sun Tzu tend to follow pragmatic approach to warfare, discourage (inept) political figure meddling in warfare, and fighting last resort with first being diplomacy and subterfuge. Clausewitz tend to have noble insight on warfare, view military as will of the state, and also see it as similiar tools as diplomacy and espionage. Ironically, most tend to use art of war for honorable Samurai (at least to the west…Japanese period piece tend to have cynical or mixed view on them, especially Dororo and Akira Kurosawa).
As a life-long fan of the 1980 series and the book, I am *really* enjoying this new series. Given how well the 1980 series still holds up, I was skeptical that Shogun needed another adaptation but it's been thrilling to see how this new team has shaken things up, expanding on characters like Fuji (such a great, tragic character in this version!), changing up the plot like this weeks death of Yoshi Nagakado and most of all, how they've approached the language barrier and the heavy lifting Mariko is doing in *interpreting* (not just translating) both to and from Blackthorne. I really appreciate how the 1980 version decided not to have subtitles for the Japanese and the effect it has on the viewer and conversely, in the new series how having the Japanese translating opens up the story. Both valid approaches with each bringing something fascinating to the show. I must admit though that with each passing week, I'm liking the new Blackthorne less and less. He's far, *FAR* too passive, reactive and kinda dim-witted. I miss the much more take charge, intelligent and inquistive Richard Chamberlain Blackthorne. He started strong, intuiting how to behave and navigate (pun fully intended) this new society he finds himself in but he's become mired in his self-interest to the detriment of his likability, relatability and more and more, the realism of the story. It's becoming more frustrating to watch him every episode with the end of this one and his temper tantrum being a new low point.
I agree. I like the actor, and I get that they want to show it more from the Japanese perspective (and avoid the "white savior" reputation the book got--which makes no sense, since Blackthorne was in no way that kind of person)...but he's too weak of a character. Chamberlain was able to convey that Blackthorne was a fish out of water, but with that solid inner strength that made the character so good. You understood that Toranaga liked Blackthorne and wanted to keep him as an ally. This Blackthorne gets his ass kicked in every episode, Mariko treats him like a dimwitted child, and Toranaga seems to regard him as being annoying. It's one of the few weak points of the series.
A strong male and white character would surprise me given the current social-political climate. And no, the Anjin is not saving anyone here but himself and what little remains of his crew. Seems that is already too much for the industry. Still, some people in the comment sections assumed the audience is supposed to like the main character. I think these guys are wildly mistaken and could not be more wrong. It's no coincidence that Blackthorne is such a dullard, detached from his whole surrounding in this new series. That DOES have negative consequences, though because despite the title of the book the protagonist IS the English navigator. It would have surprised me a lot had this Blackthorne be anything like the one Richard Chamberlain portrayed.
I'm becoming increasingly concerned for the portrayal of Blackthorn's character in this adaption. It's almost like the writers in their determination to avoid the "white saviour trope" have turned him into a hopeless buffoon. I mean seriously, a privateer who once fought under Drake against the Spanish Armarda has no clue how to handle a sword?
Blackthorne knows how to use a saber or a cutlass, not a katana. Notice his stance when Yabu challenges him? He was trying to use his sword like the ones he is familiar with. It would be like giving a samurai a claymore and tell them "Go fight with it."
@@PolarizedMechs He wouldn't be a buffoon with the Katana, though. He would even state something like, "the Katana is inferiour to our sabres. Too heavy, poor guard, short reach". An he would be competent with it.
@@dominikvonlavante6113 But he would be something at a loss with the katana. At this point in time and being a sailor, he would be familiar with the rapier and maybe a cutlass, but they're both one handed weapons and unless he was some sort of master swordsman with years and years of experience he'd have a hard time adjusting to using a 2 handed weapon. Not only a 2 handed weapon, one with a bit of a shorter reach than he'd be used to as well as a point of balance that's much farther forward than he'd be used to.. And by this time he's seen enough samurai in action to know to not underestimate what a katana, or more likely tachi, can do. It's also shown that Blackthrone is far more comfortable with his pistols than with a sword of any kind and given his bringing, and social status back in England he probably had little to no formal sword training. He probably couldn't afford to attend a fencing academy or hire a tutor to teach him swordsmanship when he was younger, and was probably too busy learning how to build and pilot ships as well.
Why is nobody speaking on the part where Blackthorne stood up and walked away? I was confused because I would assume that’s very disrespectful but Lord Toronaga didn’t say anything. Also, Mariko instructed that Blackthorne leave his pistols and only bring his swords but if you notice he carried his pistols and swords during the meeting at the end.
I thinknits all part of the plan. Id bet BT speaks Japanese by now but for Toranaga and BT it is more useful for everyone thinking of him as the idiot Barbarian who has abandoned Toranaga.... Until he, his boat, and his crew show up off the coast of Osaka as Toranaga "surrenders"
@@teufeldritch If Toranaga has a plot brewing, (and that's probably the case) he very likely wants everyone to react as if the surrender is his final defeat. The barbarian would act believeably disrespectful in his disgust at the surrender. Toranaga is in a tight spot, and is manipulating his friends and allies as much as his enemies.
Blackthorne acting disrespectful was perfect, and probably hoped for by Toranaga. As a Gaijin, he can act dispresctful witouth needing to commit seppuku. Amplyfing Toranaga's staged defeat. "Look, even the dimwitted Gaijin left Toranaga! Look how powerless he is!" This sets the stage for the next phase of deception. His slow, slow march to Osaka. I am curious how the show will resolve the next stage of the book.
I'm pretty sure Blackthorn was ordered to take all these L's as not to rouse the wrong attention to himself. I imagine Toranaga had already asked him to crew the ship and/or canons and position them in key points of ambush. And the whole sword play was also a ruse to make it seem like he's just a lowly banjin.
BTW, Toranaga did not sanction the brothel assassination of his Brother. His quip to Hiromatsu about not allowing a child to be a "second" clearly tells us his plan is more thorough and through-out.
Do you think it was Blackthorn that set it up since he left only acknowledging Nakado and Yubi, or was it once again Omii planting seeds for Nakado so he could manipulate him into doing his biddings?
Brother, I have been on your channel since episode one. Learning all the lore and history you have curated from this most interesting time period. Thank you for these reviews, your perspective and overall commitment to this content. You are the true Shogunate 🎎
I still call BS on Blackthorn's "I'm a sailor, I don't know the hilt from the blade...", man's a seasoned privateer who raided Portuguese ports for years. He may not be a blade master but he damn sure isn't as clueless as he pretends to be.
Filmed on Vancouver Island. Very rainy place and giant trees. I guess they got tired of waiting for the sun and decided to film during the rainy days. I don't mind.
um, spoiler warning...?!! "attempt" how the hell do you "attempt" seppuku...?!! Once you cut yourself open, you are pretty much fucked anyway, especially back then, so...
I think i can take a guess where this attempt will occur. To me will be linked to Mariko, as the shogunate said, she is his only true link to the land.
There is one thing that baffles me whether or not they stay true to the book. In reality if anyone from Elizabethan England were to wash up on Japan and were given fiefdom, courtesans, and a personal translator they would 100% assimilate to think otherwise is insane. A man of blackthorne’s class would never surmount to the gifts Toranaga has furnished for him.
Exactly, it's almost as if Blackthorn doesn't understand the concept of what lords are, seeing that in his own country has had them since before he were born .
@@abc4781 he wouldn’t even need to be versed in the subject. Think of all of Human history, all the revolutions and bloodshed for freedom to own something small as a farm or land or to prosper. Obviously we see that for now he is a pawn on the chessboard from the audience perspective but blackthorne wouldn’t be so keen from his.
You're totally correct but by this point he has seen like 20 people get beheaded and some of them had gifts bestowed upon them as well. I mean, a dude was killed for touching a rotten bird. Another dude had to kill himself and his infant son for speaking out of turn.
My theory is that Nagakado is based on Ieyasu first and eldest son, Nobuyasu, who did die in real life (excuted), and the unborn son is in fact, Hidetada. If you look at when Nobuyasu died, he was about 20 years old and died just before Hidetada was born. It matches up to how Nagakado died in the show at the same age, with there being another Tokugawa being born. The last thing to solidify my theory is that Hidetada was born to the one of Ieyasu's cocubine in real life. In the show, you can clearly see Nagakado was from the first wife with the unborn child belonging to one of the concubine. Anyhow great stuff!
5:43 Her name is Gin. She also requested Toranaga to build Yoshiwara district for her in Edo. 8:22 Actually, Nagakado was based on Ieyasu’s another son of the same mother (Lady Saigo no Tsubone), Matsudaira Tadayoshi. The one who was inspired by Hidetada is Yoshii Sudara. But since they totally left out Sudara, Nagakado is a mixture of both Hidetada and Tadayoshi in an instant and this is a problem, at least for me. In the book, none of these kids were killed off because Toranaga’s biggest goal is to establish a Toranaga shogunate and having at least one heir is necessary for the shogunate to be formed but now with his only son dead in the show, what’s the point of said grand plan anymore? Even if Toranaga win the war, it’s still a hollow victory because he’s old and he’s gonna die soon without an heir anyway. His family’s reign will end in just one generation (unlike in real life, with the presence of Hidetada, Ieyasu was comfortable to retire after two years and let Hidetada become his puppet shogun to secure the bloodline). And not to mention how everyone is so either cold or murderous towards Blackthorne (thanks to the whole learning language in six months plotline being left out). There’s zero reason for Blackthorne to appreciate Japanese culture, let alone being in Toranaga’s side. It would even make more sense for Blackthorne in this version to defect the Eastern Army and join the Western Army in Osaka because at least Ochiba and Ishido never tried to kill him. The warmth and compassion between characters are gone. And the betrayal and hatred are so amped up that it lacks subtlety (in the book, it’s implied that Zataki wasn’t that in on it with the council. He just got along with them because he saw the opportunity to topple his brother and became a shogun instead and he also wanted to bang Ochiba. It’s more subtle than this). Topped with the stupid death just for the sake of shock value. That’s why I considered that this show has fully become “Game of Thrones” and ceased to be Shogun.
Would you say disappointed with this show? It's not hard to understand because it keeps getting excited and then stalling, and then getting excited and then stalling. In other words, it becomes necessary to connect the place through violence and eroticism. I won't be able to evaluate how it will end with 3 more episodes left until then.
@@nont18411 He didn't die here, as you point out. He participated in the Battle of Sekigahara. Still, it's reasonable to assume that Nagakado's historical counterpart is Tadayoshi. The whole story is fictional, so we don't know when the characters will die. However, the characters have characteristics of their historical counterparts. Tadayoshi was thoughtless but brave; he did everything to help his father and died young. I don't think this is Hidetada, who became the second shogun despite being overwhelmed by his great father.
Naga/Nagakado is not the stand-in for Hidetada but for Matsudaira Tadayoshi, the fourth son of Ieyasu. Yoshii Sudara is the stand-in for Hidetada and I think he hasn't appeared in the show yet. In the book, Naga no longer has much of an active role after killing Jozen so I think that's why they decided to have him meet a more dramatic end.
There's lots to like about the show and I'm personally enjoying it, but why is it all so visually dark and gloomy? Day or night, outdoors or indoors, the visuals are relentlessly dull, dark and grey. It would be nice to see some of the colourful beauty and decoration of the period! And why is it seemingly always raining? Nit-pick aside, I hope the success of Shogun leads to more such quality historical shows being made. There is clearly an audience interest.
I think it‘s because it‘s supposed to be autumn and they‘re basically all considered to be death, because they surrendered. So they make the lightning gloomy to fit the atmosphere. It‘s also a classic film making cliche that it‘s always dark and raining when someone from the main cast is depressed or dying.
Curious to know a couple - of the things to like about the show, that is. The costumes are weird, the actors don't act like real Japanese, the photography is depressing; the score is a downer…..
One thing I like about this series is that even when people are just sitting down and just talking, the dramatic tension is real and palpable- it's all generated in the minds of the viewers. In fact, Shogun has few fighting scenes and even at that, those actions were quite short. But we know in this Samurai culture, the people, especially the warriors, are violent people, apt to cut off people's head at a moment notice. The viewers were setup early about this very early in Episode One when Omi cut off a villager's head for a minor disrespectful gesture. Something important that budding screenwriters should take note: If you write in a setup, make the sure the viewers have a payoff later in the story, otherwise they will feel cheated.
I think Blackthorne and Toranaga have something cooking together. I think Blackthorne speaks fluent Japanese by this point with only Toranaga knowing this. I believe they are planning on a Naval bombardment or blockade of Osaka using BT ship to force Ishido's forces into open battle with Toranaga(Sekigahara). Part of the "3 hearts" idea. BT is masking his true intentions and strategy behind a facade of aloofness. That whole storming out of the council was just a charade.
Nope. In the book, Toranage never realizes the utility of a mobile gun platform parked right in front of Osaka castle. In the book, Toranage is also dismissive of the insane power that can be generated through the insane profits of trade. He dismissively calls the Queen a merchant and not a real leader seeking ultimate power over her subjects. In the book, Blackthorne is also explicitly leaving out real battle and siege strategies used by European Armies. In the book he realizes that all Japanese castles are completely defenseless against 17th century use of canons and is dreaming of laying waste to Osaka with a company of European troops.
As an Englishman living in Asia for the last 10 years I like that Blackthorn is struggling to understand, struggling to make friends but at the same time doing very well with some women (not all). For me I can relate lol.
9:27 When Toranaga was seen dictating his will there was no mention of his son however, he named his heirs as his grandchildren “when they come of age”. I thought it odd yet insignificant until his son slipped and killed himself - indicating there is much to be revealed…
I can't wait for your review! Very good, thank you! I maintain my opinion that this show is grade 7! I don't like what they did with the characters, what they did with the story, I think that at this moment this show has too little of the book, I don't think it should say that it is an adaptation of the book written by James Clavell!
The clan colors hardly matter because it's so bloody desaturared and drab. There are literally no blue skies, no reds, greens, whites, or anything bright in any way. It's all just dull grey and weird orange meant to look like candle light. You can't see any of the amazing details in the costuming. It's just plain boring to look at, regardless of its historical accuracy. History was not actually "grim dark". People have always loved color and found ways to surround themselves with it.
I'm struggling with this aspect too. Even the interiors of settings like Osaka Castle are depicted as drab and gloomy, with no real sense of the beautiful architecture and colourful decoration of such a place. The costumes are gorgeous but I'm having to squint to see them. I'm not sure why they chose to make everything so overcast, dull and monotone all the time.
@@fractalfae5418 This seems to be a staple of all "modern" cinema and design writ large. Part of it is that literally every frame of every shot has some sort of CGI/digital grading, so nothing looks "real" anymore. They also seem dead set on highlighting "diversity" by making everyone looks as similar as possible. Everyone looks the same in the dark, I suppose.
@@fractalfae5418 That's not entirely true. When they first arrived in Osaka, Rodriguez comments on how advanced the city is compared to europe and there's a really great shot of the city. But yes for the most part it is a bit drab. I think they are trying to convey it's winter time.
@@calvinfisher5886 Irony, reading comprehension and the English language are clearly not your strong suits. Pro Tip: all forms of politically motivated "Diversity" initiatives are designed to erode uniqueness and individuality for the sake of "Oneness". That's why everyone and everything are all now the same shade of beige or grey, or orange to hide skin tones (see: DUNE, the glasses of "Blue Eye Samurai," et. al.) Using real lighting would show the actual differences and true diversity of people, which is no longer allowed in our Wonderful World of Oneness.....I mean Globablist Hegemony. I bet you're wondering where all the Black folks are too, right? LOL!
None of the three main characters are "main" at this point in this particular adaptation. They are mostly single note "bystanders" while so much of the plot driving and discoveries are being done by "side" characters. Fuji, Yabu, and Buntaro are all progressing as characters. Even Nagakado and Omi are doing more to drive the plot vs the main 3. The main 3...dont like each other, dont trust each other, and barely communicate with one another. So who cares what happens to any of the main 3? Honestly, I can't be the only person who notices this, right?
I am not one for making drastic changes from books to film. But upon reflection, I think Mariko going out like Gracia did would be better thematically. I think it would have more impact on the characters and the overall plot of the story.
Rarely can a show pull an audible reaction from me, but when I saw Nagakado slip and crack his skull, it did it for me! Pretty suremy upstairs neighbor heard my reaction 😅 I'm really looking forward to how this impacts the rest of the series. I may be reading into it a bit much, but Ifeel like they want to make Fuji and Blackthorne a match by the end of the series. My theory is that after Mariko's death, Blackthorne will have his seppuku attempt, but will be stopped by Fuji who will ask to go first, but will be in turn stopped by Blackthorne, an event that will leave both closer to each others. Yeah, that came to me from those two short scenes with her and her grandfather. Pure speculation though.
I like it. I really don’t mind the changes to book, because a James Clavel Authorized version already exists. Why repeat the story again? I like that I don’t no where the story is going.
Yes, some Daimyos used kinds of similar outfits to identify or show off their mighty army. Kyushu Daimyo Tachibana Muneshige ordered hundreds of gold gilded peach shaped helmets for his elite mounted samurais, 239 of these helmets still exist in Tachibana Museum, Fukuoka.
I don't see why they needed Blackthorne-focused episodes if they never planned on integrating him or utilizing him at even half the pace the original show and book did. Buntaro causes a ruckus at Blackthorne's house in the evening and then puts himself through public humiliation in apologizing- which Blackthorne does not accept, as far as I could tell. He then decides to put a sword up to Toranaga's Hatamoto's neck, in public, in 'broad daylight' (it's always raining in Vancouver) and has absolutely no repercussions from any of his liege lords. Worse, every opportunity they have to show Blackthorne integrating in any way- such as perhaps making a small response to Yabu during his beach-side confession, they instead have Blackthorne stupidly and blankly stare at all the actors. Somehow Chamberlain's rendition of the Anjin had him picking up even the physical cues of the Japanese actors and reacting to body-language. Here, it appears Blackthorne is told by the director to 'stay quiet and stay still.' If this show had 2 seasons, this episode might be looked back upon with favour. Since it's a mini-series and time is precious, I feel like this episode's contents could have been done in 30 minutes, not 55.
The begining was amazing and i hope there are more flash back like this. Although I saw the way Toragana swing his sword was weak and pathetic. Which was the whole point when his brother boast about him cutting the head in one fell swoop which was him insulting him but everyone was praising him and the oppsite happen when he again mocks of him shating his pants. That beginning really sets up every thing and lures you with a expecation of what would happen. Expecation vs reality. 9 time he tries to cut his head off but 9 times he fail because he was a kid. This epsideo really digs deep with Toragana and i love it and want to see more it of his past and thinking. What really bothers me is how much he defends John so much and how casual he is and John for the 1st time spoken out of his postion only for him to back down again then insults him and his company in front of his face. His son's death was a shock for me to see although i dont think he would die but dam did I felt so dissapointed with his tragic end. Again lile i said in the perious epsido he was a idiot who takes everything to a impusive act. Beheading Jozen and trying to kill his uncle with no though of what would come next. I hope he surives and if he dose that mother $@€£*$ better learn how to be humble and crafty like his father. I had a feeling that long robe was gonna be the death of someone but did not expect it to be Toragana's son which was "killed" by a long wet robe. I also watch this seires with my brother and he woukd offten compared to last samurai with Naten comming to love the samurai and how Katumoto would form a bond with each other. Here we dont get that. Its more like John is held at his leash and never barls back and Toragana is too relax with John and although he lash out with Mariko and Buntaro he never done that with John. But what i do enjoy from this is the feeling how it takes a jab at the last samurai for its romantisum of samurai culture. Assination attememts preform not by black cloak sinobi but other samurais. How Kastamoto's son dies and heroic death but Toragana's son in a pathetic way.
The joyous and loving nature of meeting his brother makes his portrayal so painful for me. Also it seems he is supposed to be a leader UNDER someone else ? It was mentioned that why would they let someone so young be their second. Seemingly implying it was he who made the winning move, but not in overall command So maybe that's who they show ur is not his own warlord but also showing some skill for battle at a young age
Thanks again for another invaluable review, Shogunate! It sounds like in various aspects the show continues to be improving, which is very welcomed. I'm personally still concerned, but if the show continues in the direction it has continued to do so I'll likely end up supporting it after it finishes it's airing. I'm very disappointed that they didn't stick to the original story as much as is possible for a film adaptation to do so, but it sounds like it'll be an entertaining watch nevertheless. Which is uncommon in the western film industry now a days. Though personally at this point I feel that the show should be classified as "inspired by" rather than "adaptation of" because of the many changes that have been made to the story. So it really should be seen/regarded as something different. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does disappoint me, because I was looking forward to an adaption and that's what they promised/advertised. Again thank you very much, Shogunate! These reviews are invaluable to me and I appreciate them more than I can probably say.
Blackthorn has also a careful friendship with Fujiko in this adaptaion, but yeah, by that point he also should know Japanese better. I was very sad, that they killed off Naga, because he was with all his faults a pretty likeable character in the book.
I think John would be happier if there wasn't a looming war as he does seem to appreciate Japanese culture but also sticks to aspects of his culture which is fair, he cares for his men and has mostly just been subject to politics and war thus it makes sense he is not having a good time but he likes Fuji and Mariko and was mates with his Gardener
I was disappointed in episode 7 for several reasons. Blackthorn is still acting like a sluggish dullard with no appreciable progress towards understanding the situation he is in, this I think is a distinct departure from the book. Toronaga’s son has been given much more exposure so far in the series whereas in the book he is almost nonexistent, in addition you are correct that his death is not in the book. I do not recall the assignation attempt in the book and this whole episode revolves around Toronaga’s brother whereas (as I recall), it was barely a page or 2 in the book and I think also there was no assassination attempt on his brother. Again I am very surprised at the almost total absence of Father Alvito and the Jesuits in general, another distinct departure from the book. I am finding the 1980 treatment much more closely aligned with the book (still do not like the music). The success of this series in my view is the sets, period dress, the depiction of the period culture, and the actors portraying Toronaga, Fuji, Hiromatsu, Buntaro, and Gin…disappointed in the direction and guidance of the other main characters, I think they missed the mark.
Clearly Crimson Sky is now in jeopardy as the uncle was to lead toranaga straight into osaka castle, for the assault, the son has now stupidly attacked the uncle who is on their side all along...just my thoughts
The shift in focus from Blackthorne is not compelling. It seems like it's a story of Toranaga's expected win instead. we'll see how they bring in Blackthorne's character back into the plot as the main character....
I absolutely love the show but do not like what the writers have done to Blackthorne's character. His diminishment, making him look like a clumsy buffoon, is obviously very deliberate. Anyone who's read the book or watched the 1980 miniseries understands this. Apparently the writers felt compelled to erase any semblance of the "white savor trope" which required turning Blackthorne into an inept, unhappy man. He was portrayed in a much better light in 1980 but of course back then we didn't have the slimy tendrils of woke weaving it's way into everything Hollywood put out.
Turned recording of series off, think I just like watching these videos instead. The characters are all made out to be so dim witted and one dimensional. I actually laughed out loud several times in this episode because of how ridiculous it is.
Overall I still enjoy the Show but this episode might be my lest favourite so far. Nagakados Death just seemed to happen to have the Show be different for the sake of being different.
@@baileyboy6246 I live in Florida. We got plenty of both and it's actually quite sunny ;) Same in Japan. Sure, there are cloudy days, but this is just absurd.
In history, Hidetada failed to arrive on time at Sekigahara. So, the author needs to find his way out sooner than the final battle. Besides, Hidetada took away 30,000 men from the main battleground. Hence, the novel created the earthquake. Maybe the kid didn't die and will come back in the following episode.
I think the Regent brother is still in cahoots with Toranaga and all of it is just an act (until Toranaga's son accidentally killing himself lol) to basically allow Toranaga to march into Osaka castle unimpeded with his brother's army in tow. Blackthorn walking out the meeting like that is definitely suspicious, Toranaga definitely ordered him on a secret mission like using the ship to bombard Osaka castle using the cannons (which has tremendous range btw) thus forcing Ishido to battle against Toranaga outside the castle.
Why do they have Mariko constantly ask to commit suicide when she is supposed to be a devout Catholic? She knows that is a serious sin. It seems like the only reason they bring up her Catholism is to explain why she speaks Portuguese.
Watch the movie Silence for a perspective on this. In Japan then, and still now, religion doesnt have the same bearing as it did on Europe. Mariko still feels to be living in a state of dishonor as her family was slaughtered by the Taiko and he died before she could avenge that. So Mariko is in a tension of her faith but also her sense of duty. And ultimately Catholic doctrine never really builds roots in Japan even though it never really goes away, for example many japanese people identify as non religious but still marry at a church or hold funural at a temple. A european may say that she is no true Catholic, but that comes from your understanding of the faith. Mariko will say she is a devout Catholic and this comes from her understanding. So yes Mariko is commiting a sin by commiting suicide, but she commits a greater sin every day she is alive.
I had the exact same thought, the three hearts story for a true christian is unthinkable, or is she bluffing or sinning, but by sleeping with Blackthorne, i think she really means when asking to kill herself, which make her a christian only in apperance.
She ask for him to kill her not for her to commit suicide. The real Gracia had someone kill her, rather than commit suicide as it was against her faith
@@patrickjeffers7864Asking someone to kill you is no different than suicide in Catholic doctrine. That's why euthanasia is a sin. And the earliest versions of her death said that her husband, Tadaoki ordered the servants to kill her if her honor was threatened. That is the most accepted version.
@@TribuneAquilaShe was very devout in real life and was famous for her long theological discussions with priests. In 1595, when Tadaoki was in potential trouble, she even specifically asked her priest If suicide was acceptable. He said absolutely no. She understood that very well.
everyone concentrates on the male characters - it's the female characters propel the male characters through the vagaries of fate in early Edo Period Japan. Through guile, suggestion, sex, humor,, etc., they are puppet masters in a real sense. Gin, Mariko, Fuji, Kiku, all manipulate, in some way, the men they are involved with changing the trajectory of the plot. In deconstructive terms, polarities are reversed and the female characters are able to tease out the ironies inherent in the various situations...
Ok here are some insights into this mostly excellent show. Firstly, Mama-san was not the only one who realised Toranaga was enacting a ruse of being defeated. Blackthorn's dramatic walk out of the sit down shows that he also knew of it and wanted to help to make it believable by feigning shock and disgust. Next, the reason that they changed the story so that Blackthorn had no friends is because the show is in fact woke. And here's how. I should start by saying that in the recent year or so, the clumsy woke that has been destroying studio viewership and revenue has been notice and adapted to. Not in abandoning woke but by being more subtle with it. This is fine because creative are gonna be woke. So if they are woke, it's at least better that they are woke in a way that enables them to still make great productions. The creators of this show insisted that they wanted to 'show respect to Japanese culture' by portraying it accurately. And they have which makes their abuse of the historical shows of their own culture all the more infuriating. It shows that they can make great shows that respect the historical context but just chose not to when making shows about our own history. Next, the woke element of this show is that they are very careful not to have the viewer like Blackthorn that much by making him just a bumbling shouty fool and showing all the 'noble' Japanese characters 'model' disdain for whitey by looking down their nose at him. They re-wrote that his good qualities shone through in time and he won certain characters over because they don't want to model affection for whitey for the viewer. Notice how they justified the guy peeing on him by showing Blackthorn making sexual gestures towards him first and being very insulting rather than just defiant at his imprisonment. They will not allow him to be the victim or the noble character. He's just 'there' being whitey that everyone can disdain. Despite this, it's still a very enjoyable show. Think how much better it could be if they weren't so eager to be subtly woke and anti whitey.
spare me dude. Blackthorne isn't portrayed this way because of "wokeness", Blackthorne in the show is portrayed as a an actual believable human character rather than the storybook fantasy character he is in the book. I enjoyed the book immensely, but it was a fantasy string of lucky and flawlessly executed adventures; portraying him a bit more realistically as a human being with strengths and weaknesses is a way they've improved upon it in the show.
lol the parade of usual 'fanboy' pearl clutching at any criticism. How fragile you are. Name one Japanese character who likes him or even shows appreciation for him saving their lord? Other than Mariko of course but even then they just paid a quick stealth shag homage to the book but quickly reverted to type with her showing nothing but disdain for him in the modern anti whitey style of Zendaya's MJ or Chani. Your ignorance of the book is evident. Blackthorn failed to save his crew, he failed to escape Japan, he failed to build a fleet as it got torched. What exactly were his 'flawless victories'? You are like a console kiddie who can't bear for anything you like to receive even the mildest criticism. You need to grow up and become more emotionally robust. It's a hard world out there, toughen up kid and you begging people to 'spare you' from being exposed to opinions you don't agree with isn't going to cut it. @@eumaies
its not anti white or even remotely woke. this is history, foreigners were never treated nicely in almost every nation during this time period (exc. ofc europe, being full of diversity) this is more realistic.
This show is permeated with woke through and through. In this episode, it also shows up in Gin's petition for the Yoshiwara. In reality, it was a man who created the Yoshiwara, and this show has switched him to a female, purely for ideological reasons.
@@cocoacrispy7802 Gin's petition is straight from the book. In reality, none of the shit on the show happened the way its described in the book or the show and the white samurai dude was a pretty boring character, so enjoy the show and stop imagining your crusade against imaginary wokeness has any connection to reality about this brilliantly done show.
Thank you for your thoughts on the show. We really have enjoyed the show on FX. I had read the book and did an essay on it in school(over 40 years ago🙄)so I y serrano your viewpoint.
Half way through the episode and already they are messing up. It turns out that John Blackthorne doesn't know how to hold a sword. Someone for the sake of drama forgot that anyone in the 17th century knew more or less how to use a sword. Specially someone whose job was to raid other ships and attack enemy Ports....
This series stopped following the books in a very drastic and out of left field direction. Sadly I suspect this series ends very poorly like game of thrones. Also episode 6 was just fluff so this also portends a worsening of the quality.
Idk I found the ending of this episode comically goofy and dumb. The brother isn't shown to have gotten slashed but for some reason is crawling like he was just shot in both kneecaps, then Nagakato slips on a wet rag and flies backwards getting multiple feet of air and explodes his head on a rock. And why was the brother undefended and weaponless? As if nobody would attempt to kill him? The whole sequence felt completely unnatural and cartoonish.
Do I like the direction the show is heading????? I don't know where it's heading and that's great! This show is so dramatic and unpredictable that it keeps me glued to the screen every second. But I do think Toda has betrayed Toranaga. That's why Toranaga ordered him out of Blackthorne's home. He doesn't want him to track the comings and goings of Blackthorne.
What did toranaga mean by, “are you with me, or are you with the Barbarian?” when scolding Mariko? He keeps showering the guy with gifts, and he’s certainly no threat. Is he planning on turning on him orrrr…. Did I miss something?
The guy that plays Blackthorn has an acting issue. When he’s supposed to be angry he doesn’t emote it and it just comes off as screaming real loud with no anger. Mariko is similar too. She has the same deadpan face. Even when she “smiles” it looks fake. The art of showing emotion that you don’t really have is a real thing. The original Mariko had that down perfectly. Literally everyone else is great…maybe not Alvito, I mean look, what chance does he have against Damien Thomas from the original. This Alvito has zero screen presence. But I still am enjoying the series. They added a lot but did take a lot away and most of the changes are fine, at least we get to have some surprise moments too.
Mariko for one thing is a samurai woman and therefore would know how to hold her emotions. John Blackthorne on the other hand can't even hold a sword. Mind you he was on a mission to raid Portuguese ships and sea ports....
@@tatumergo3931 Yeah I know that, but the original Mariko range was so much more real. I mean she had one look, it’s the same look she had in Godzilla. It’s like she’s forcing this stoic look and it just isn’t very believable. I’m still enjoying the series though.
@@Wetboss. Well yeah, I personally like historical and period pieces dramas more than the rest of the stuff out there. Yeah the actress is just going to far with the characterization (over acting much). I blame the Director in all of this, he has the ultimate say so! She comes across like one of those evil female characters from sleepy eyes series.
@@tatumergo3931 Agreed. The original Mariko was so disarming with her smile and her soft tone. That is how you hide your true feelings. The new Mariko looks sour, disinterested and avoid. Kind of Resting B#%$ Face. Still, Blackthorn bothers me the most, and like you said, it’s the direction. He’s not melting into the culture. He’s like a whinny guest and they seem to keep Torinaga away from him, I mean they do bond to a certain extent. But we’ll have to see where they go I guess. I wasn’t sure about Kashigi Yabu at first. The original was great, but he has grown on me. He almost seems like a used car salesman, all sneaky and telling half truths. Todasama is REALLY good too. So for me there are more positives than negatives. Just a different vision I guess.
Maybe toranaga's son is not dead just with the head messed up ? they could still save him somehow if they want... great armor display on the episode tho.
Some of the comments on here are hilarious talking about the show being woke and the white male. If this was an anime or Kill Bill no one would be complaining lol
Not a fan of the changes. At this point, I expect Fujiko to die in battle and Mariko actually survive, simply because we only have a few episodes left and her and Blackthorne got nowhere, compared to book and original series. Girl-boss Ochida pissed me off the most so far, it's nothing but an award check box they included, completely unjustified. Blackthorne himself I initially did not like, then I started to warm up to him but now he starts to really piss me off because he's just too stupid at this point, continuing to ask for his fucking ship EVERY FUCKING EPISODE when we all know the answer. Mariko's reaction was priceless, it was almost like breaking the fourth wall, hahaha.
Enjoying this show but throughout this episode I was thinking, I don't remember this happening in the book like this. lets see how it goes but the characters are just lacking warmth overall in the recent episodes. Overall the weakest episode. Didn't like the way the end twist happened, seemed very late game of thrones nonsense.
Why would Toranaga want to alienate Buntaro by having Mariko be Blackthorn's translator? Right now he needs all the allies he can get, and Buntaro is a top warrior. He sees it is causing a big problem. She isn't the only Japanese that knows Portuguese. She wasn't even his translator before Blackthorn got here.
Buntaro is a samurai with anger issues. Toranaga doesn't really need him. Sure, he's a great archer, but so are probably a lot of other samurai in Toranaga's army.
@@PolarizedMechsIn real life his character is Tadaoki Hosokawa, leader of the Hosokawa clan and leader of 5,000 soldiers in this battle. What purpose do Mariko and Blackthorn serve here? Nothing. She is just his wife and Blackthorn knows nothing about land warfare.
I’ve never read the books so I might not know everything that’s about to happen but based on what I’ve watched and seen I think Nagakatos death was the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. Toranagas son slips on a rock and cracks his skull how can someone like him be such a bumbling moron when it comes to footing, how did he fall backwards when his weight was forwards. He has the ultimate opportunity to kill Saeki and do SOMETHING useful. Instead he slips on a wet rock and cracks his skull open like a moron. I may seem uneducated and probably don’t understand but as someone who is consuming anything shogun related for the first time this to me was fucking stupid.
Bro I thought Nagakado was based on Hidetada and I thought he was gonna have an Ueda moment. So the look on my face at the end of the episode 😂 Edit: I have been told that apparently Nagakado is Toranaga’s second son, and Toranaga’s first son is somebody named Kazutada. I didn’t notice this anywhere in the show though 🤔
@@TheShogunate I looked it up, and its on FX’s website as well, he does in fact have another son named Kazutada. I havent read the book or watched the 1980s show, so i dont know how vital he is to the story, but I do know about Hidetada’s importance in actual history. If he didnt die in the book as you mention, why would they just kill him off? It doesnt follow the book, nor does it follow actual history, so it would make sense that there is another son, perhaps in Edo or something. Maybe that is who Toranaga has up his sleeve to ambush his brother’s forces?
The show is going from great to garbage. The decisions made have make every character a non likeable Character. And the end of this episode show how ridicule the show has become by killing Toranagas son
Anyone knows who's head was it that was sent to yabushige? The head has a one eye patch on and we all know who's the famous one eye patch samurai is in sengoku jidai...
From what I heard, there were a few samurai during the sengoku jidai that wore eyepatches, not just Date Masamune. I highly doubt it was a character meant to be Masamune that was executed.
I was not a fan of this episode, specifically the death of Nagakado. I thought his character was a stupid stereotype of American storytelling wherein the young rich bratty son of someone with great power and wealth dies in a manner that is an embarrassing 180 from where the character in the show personally sees themselves. It was lazy and stupid. Overall I'm becoming less and less of a fan of this adaptation because main characters story archs and personalities are quickly glossed over. In the book the main story conflict of Toranaga and the counsel was seen as a thunderstorm on the horizon in the book and original series yet is a full on hurricane in this show and the personal relationships are mere window dressing. This is totally different from the book and even the original TV series. I'm having an internal debate over which is 2nd. The original TV series or this show. Right now this show is in 3rd place.
One thing thats on my mind every episode is why toranaga keeps disrespecting hirokatsu "Buntaro" toda? Dude literally died for him and he makes his wive not only serve the barbarian but even encourages them bedding together while knowing really well Buntaro loves her
I enjoy this show. I've never read the book and won't. So I'm just enjoying this series for what it is. But ya, that kid's a dumbass and toranaga won't cry about his loss(although i thought he'd survive like the real Hidetada). At least Fuji had some moments in this one.
Man, I hated this episode so much... Blackthorne characterization makes no sense to me and even is not clear how has not been killed so far. And of course, the whole interaction between Toranaga and his brother has been changed so much in comparation with the book and 80s series... Changes are not necessarily bad, after all is a new adaptation, but I fail to see how this whole mess will be solved in a credible manner, specially considering what happens at the episode end. In any case, lets see how the showrunners tie this new adaptation together, maybe it will be a new twist that put all pieces on place.
I really don’t mind the changes from the book, because a James Clavel Authorized version already exists. Why repeat the story again? I like that I don’t know where the story is going.
