@@porkchopspapi5757 If each block is 1", that means the #1 buck barely makes the 12" standard. But it's to my understanding, from previous research, that all 12 pellets consistently penetrate at LEAST 12" into gel at that velocity. It just seems something is missing..
I have a 8 round tube and 1 in the chamber. Load #4 buckshot, 00 buckshot, #4 buckshot, 00 buckshot, slug, slug, Dragon's Breath, silver pellets, rock salt. Because if you can't take them down in the 1st 6 shots, they're probably wendigos, vampires, or some kind of demon, so the dragon's breath and silver should take out the 1st two, while the rock salt should dissipate ghosts and demons.
I understand that we should also consider nephalim (giants) from the Biblical days, that are being bred under the ice caps in Antarctica. Not sure what the best load is for those fellers, but I'm stocked with #1, 00, and 000 buckshot, as well as plenty of Gold Dot .223 and Russian 7.62x39. Only have a case or two of 12 guage slugs, probs need to build up that supply just in case.
I don't want to imagine. I still go with more pellets with the 00, more chances to hit. With buckshot you've already got enough power, 000 is overkill for home defense
True, it does penetrate more. But still, I might keep a few in my side saddle for those extra special people hyped up on heroin/meth/cocaine/all of the above that don't stop with the first shot.
I thought that too. maybe because it's basically the exact same thing happening, just on a smaller scale. you know, energy being dumped into a fluid medium... quickly. speaking of wasted energy, I think people waste too much of their energy on war and weapons. I mean killing gets boring too, eventually.
DesertArizona Huh? If you are shooting at ranges where you are worried about pellets not hitting you are not carrying the right weapon. For Home Defense you want all pellets to hit. And in any decent round like Federals FliteControl at 30 ft all pellets are going to be 1.5-3 inch grouping. If those pellets miss and kill someone else you are going to prison. Second, the 000 over penetrates. This means you will shoot through the target and could wound or kill an innocent. #1 or 00 buck is going to be your happy medium for damage and penetration.
000 certainly packs more punch, but I noticed that the 00 was reduced recoil load compared to standard 2 3/4 1325fps velocity. I’m curious how much the extra velocity of a full power 2 3/4 load would have compared to the 000 buck. Either way, both are very effective….
@@legstitchedtigerftw2455 that doesn't mean it's more lethal. It's about how much energy is dumped into the body before coming out the other side. The average human torso isn't 25 inches.
@@stefanodogg280 Actually, 000 shot is larger than 00 shot but not my a huge margin. Still, after further research, I have switched from 000 to 00 Buckshot in my shotgun for home defense purposes. The reason is that I live in the city and have to consider my neighbors. 00 is more than powerful enough to do the job with less penetration.
@@astrofrk True but the 00 has more overall surface impact area because of more pellets. I would use either and would use 000 if I was in bear country.. I will be, soon but I'll use slugs, instead
#8 shot wont penetrate at 55 meters( 60 plus yards) who the hell is gonna shoot at someone with a shotgun at over 60 yards?? if I use a shotgun, your gonna be in my house, period!!! #8 will fuck up your day.....
shot a stray dog with #8 from less than 2 feet away he rolled a flip and a half took off yelping thought he would go off and die well nope he showed back up about 2 weeks later. so nope i wouldn't stake my life on #8 shot.
I have my 12 gauge loaded with #6 bird-shot. It may not kill him at 5-7 feet but the second shot will. And I don't think there would be any collateral damage. And if the guy decides to run, I'm not going to attempt to shoot him when he gets 60 yards away.
Jerry Knasinski Is your 12 gauge a pump action? If I may share, I've made a rule for myself never to use birdshot unless it was double barrel, or semi auto. Since pump action is not follow-up shot friendly, I wouldn't want to reload only to ready a shot for someone who is already down. Nothing worse than forensics showing that you shot a man while he is down and you have murder on your hands.
The 000 buck was on a much smaller block (but zoomed in) so it appeared much more devastating than the 00. The 00 was a 24 inch block, the 000 was a 16 inch block.
I know it's scientific saying #8 shot at 55 yards won't penetrate human skin, but I was shot rather directly at 25 yards and it only bruised me. I had a weird acne look for awhile and I picked one pellet out of my chin, but that was it. I believe it was actually #6 shot, upland quail load.
+Neit LNU People have been killed by .22 short as well. Are you going to carry .22 short for defense based on that alone? Lol. Your BIL was an exception, not the rule. Birdshot is for birds and pests, not humans.
If the message is "get the fuck out of my house" then birdshot is a great choice. If you want to kill the person infront of you with one shot, then 000 buckshot or a slug is ideal.
My father was shot with birdshot during a home invasion in the 80's. Thankfully, your response is correct and he survived. It definitely put him out of the fight, had to have his liver repaired because he took a shot to the side and had his last rites read, but that definitely wouldn't have been the case if it was any form of buck or slug.
Birdshot is perfect for in a house. People don't realize buckshot will go through walls. Birthday typically won't. A shot the the upper torso with birdshot they probably won't walk away. About 450 pellets lol
@@stryker1953 My father was able to fire back at his attacker during a failed home-invasion after he was shot 15 feet away with bird shot. he wasn't 'out of the fight'. And while I'm grateful that was the case, he's a living example of why we shouldn't rely on bird shot for self defense. Better than nothing? Absolutely. But if you have a choice? #00 or #
Honestly, #4 buckshot, or any smaller buckshot really, seems to be the best compromise for something like home defense, where you want a good amount of penetration, but not too much as to put others in less danger. It's probably going to be my choice from now on.
I saw photos from Detroit's Receiving Hospital (anti-gun violence show) of a guy shot with bird shot. OMG, it was brutal, the shot went through all the clothes but most stopped short of penetrating deeper that skin and muscle. The torso area had penetration into soft tissues. He didn't die immediately (large man). However, the spread was from knee to face. He was swollen like the stay puff marshmallow man, and perished a day or so later. For those that say its ineffective at close range, immediately yes, but personally I would never want to get shot with that much lead. Again, the effects were brutal. Akin to mid-evil warfare....
+Scott McMillan I've tested birdshot against a hardwood tree on my property. At ten feet, wearing heavy protective gear, one 12 gauge shell blew a hole about five inches across and about an inch deep into HARDWOOD. Under 25-30 feet, buckshot, still in a tight pattern, will eliminate a target quite handily.
+PotzyMccoy im on the same page with you on shot choice, I keep buck loaded in my shotgun, but my shotgun is also not my go to HD weapon. But interestingly enough, and to support the comment below this. I have found that alot of times at 10 feet and off the shelf low brass universal 7&1/4 shot will not spread out at all and acts like a slug. I was doing some practice, and noticed these 1 inch holes in the targets and was like wtf is going on. This is not guaranteed to happen
+PotzyMccoy im on the same page with you on shot choice, I keep buck loaded in my shotgun, but my shotgun is also not my go to HD weapon. But interestingly enough, and to support the comment below this. I have found that alot of times at 10 feet and off the shelf low brass universal 7&1/4 shot will not spread out at all and acts like a slug. I was doing some practice, and noticed these 1 inch holes in the targets and was like wtf is going on. This is not guaranteed to happen
+USMCSurvivalist85 That's true, it doesn't spread really quickly through the air in regards to typical indoor distances. It does however spread a lot after hitting a soft target such as some tweaker's sternum. When a more resilient medium than air gets in between the pellets it pushes them apart much faster.
Lets also not neglect the shotgun slug. A 7/8oz to 1.5oz riffled slug traveling up to around 1,900fps is going to hit harder than just about anything less than a .50bmg round. So the real benefit of a shotgun, besides being one of the undisputed best/hardest hitting "close combat weapons", is the extreme versatility that is available thanks to the wide range of rounds that can be chosen.
I noticed that the 00 buckshot in this video was traveling at 1140 FPS and i just checked a 2 3/4 inch remington 00 buckshot load and the advertised velocity on that is 1325 FPS. Was a low recoil load used in this video or is 1140 FPS the actual velocity one should expect with regular loads? or was a short barrel used in this video? Just curious . By the way i love your videos they are very helpful in making decisions on load choice. Thanks a bunch,
@@gz617 It was not a low recoil load, in fact it was quite the opposite, it was a 3 inch Magnum load. A whole lot more pellets, but lower velocity. Also the size of the blocks used in all the tests (except for the 000 which used a smaller block) made the damage seem relatively unimpressive for a lot of these loads. Blocks used seem to be roughly 22 inches long.
Your use of 19 inch blocks for your favored rounds while using a 10 inch block negates the physics involved and the experiment. A target with more inertia is going to allow more penetration than one with less that moves to absorb the shock. I have no intention to be "snippy." My intention is to gather facts from experiments that have standards and and are repeatable.
For close range defensive ammo, a person can't go wrong with #4 Buck. It has a reduced chance of over penetrating the threat, and seems to dump all of it's energy inside said threat. #4 Buck is my choice because birdshot is for the birds.
I tend to agree. #4 has the penetration, but the smaller pellets carry less wounding capacity if they miss and hit someone else downrange, through barriers. Another thing to keep in mind: more pellets hitting the target means more wound channels and therefore a larger chance of something vital being hit.
A while back the U.S. government tested buckshot loads for effectiveness, and they found that the best offense/defense load was nickel-plated #4 buck...I've seen comparison videos of plain lead vs. nickel-plated buckshot, and there is a clear advantage to using nickel-plated pellets. I use Fiocchi Nickel-plated #4 buck in my shorty shotty for house defense.
" Flechette ammunition and 00 buckshot were equally preferred by the troops over the issued XM257 #4 buckshot, which proved ineffective under combat conditions, lacking the penetration and terminal performance of either flechettes or 00 buckshot." A while back being during the Vietnam war.
Jeff Sartain I just watched another video by a different RU-vidr and he shot a high brass #4 turkey load into gel from 10’ away. Only penetrated 7” and the first 4” of gel is representative of the skin alone. So it would only go 3” into the human body... not a reliable round.
Please post the video derek or link I have personally observerd an autopsy where a high brass 3 inch 12 ga, made a slightly larger than 72 caliber hole around 12 inches deep at approx 20 feet...and the first 4 inches of gel = skin.......btw the suspect was dead on the scene...just fyi
Jeff Sartain i don’t remember the exact video nor do I care to go searching... wasting my time to show proof. Cause I really don’t care. If you really wanna see it just click the search bar and type #4 birdshot gel test. Never said birdshot can’t be lethal. The argument is that it can’t consistently and reliably stop an attacker.
The 000 was impressive, but to me the whole point of a shotgun with buckshot is the multiple chances of hitting a vital organ in a single trigger pull. I'd rather have the smallest size that still reliably gets adequate penetration, because smaller pellets means more pellets in a shell, which means more chances that one of the projectiles hits a vital organ. #1 buck still reliably gives more than enough penetration and gives you 15 projectiles.
No worries. I've read some of your posts in the past and I appreciate them. Only once a week do I post my famous "snippy comments" back to fans :). I will be expanding upon this video in the next few months .. with an updated video. Thank you .. John
I love 000 buck. It shoots 8 x .36cal pellets. Higher mass per pellet (60grains) 00 buck is not bad, 9 x .33cal pellets. (54grains/pellet) but I would rather the heavier 000 pellets for more retained energy and wound hole size.
@@Gieszkanne 2 holes hemorrhaging blood is much better than 1. This leads quickly to volumetric bloodloss. If you are too worried about overpenetration buy a sword. I dont let someone overpower and kill me for fear of overpenetrating. Always be aware of your target and backstop.
@@kearneydillon4803 That is nonsense! Nobody has such quick bloodloss that he couldnt shoot back. And a thru and thru isnt any deadlier at all. Also in a life and death situation you can and will not have any awareness of the backstop. Do you want to wait or move for a better angle? Irresponsible people like you real shouldnt be allowed to own a firearm or at least should be liable to do a kind of driving license for guns!
bigtoad45 Yeah people don't give the 20 gauge the credit it deserves, the recoil is super controllable but the shells still pack some nasty god damn power.
Low recoil buckshot works wonders. The 00 in the video is low recoil. Standard velocity 00 buckshot is around 1,300 fps. The buckshot in the video was travelling at a little more than 1,100 fps. the same velocity printed on a box of Federal tactical buckshot
00 and 000 buck both go more than 18", wasting energy. #4 buck is, IMO, just about right, doing massive damage, and dumping all the energy within the target. We are responsible for every projectile from our firearms. Over-penetration means those projectiles still can do damage for which we are liable. I'd rather use something that will stay within the perp.
I would like to see a 2 3/4 turkey or water fowl load tested, something over #4 shot size, maybe the new blind side or something, since everyone keeps disagreeing over bird or buck shot for home defense, I think one of the before mention types would put some at ease over using a bird load, while not decimating their house.
Although, I kind of underplayed it. If you're shooting someone center of the chest, you're going to hit the heart, lungs if you're far enough with a clyinder bore/choke. I mean really, there's nothing anyone can you for you at that point, really. At least with the .357, if they miss vitals, they'll live... A shotgun removes a certain margin of error as well.
I know I have not. I also know that use of a firearm is automatically considered Lethal Force by the law and most sensible people, regardless of whether it's a .22 pistol or a 12 gauge shotgun, whether the fella you just ventilated goes to the trauma surgeon or the morgue. Therefore, if you are put in a situation where you must shoot someone, it is best to pick a firearm ahead of time that is as effective as possible. And yes, if you do it right, the fella will NOT make it to a trauma surgeon.
@East or West Oh sure, someone did a lethality study, and the .22 LR is every bit as lethal as the big boys. Problem is, it isn't nearly as immediately incapacitating; it doesn't put the target down fast. This means they can still do unto you in the meantime, and now they have nothing left to lose...
@@Tomyironmane True. It doesn't help you if the 250lb boxing champ beats you to death after you shoot him and then dies 10 minutes later, that doesn't do you any good.
Just plan to turn your living room into Huế City '68 and forget the self-hating critics. If there is any justice, they will be weeded out once they get outside of the comfortable cocoon of our artificial life-support system and act like the jellyfish that they are.
Birdshot CAN be lethal at inside-the-house ranges, but the point of these sorts of penetration tests is to establish what can be RELIED on to be. If I'm not mistaken, the smallest shot size that penetrates deeply enough to be relied on to incapacitate is #4 buckshot.
-The average human torso is about 9 inches thick -the vitals sit somewhere near the middle - go to 00:50 Translation---if you're worried about over-penetrating the attacker...#4 Buck is Perfect
If memory serves, #4 buck pellets individually hit like a .32ACP at typical home defense ranges. Therefor, a full wad of #4 buck is tantamount to shooting an entire box of .32ACP simultaneously! So, yes, #4 buck is quite suitable for HD purposes.
Except humans are not made of gel-like substance only. Humans have dense bones, muscle tissue + layers of fat (depending on individual) + possible heavy clothing. I'll stick with 00 at 1200 fps.
Unbelievable what Buckshot is capable of. The 000 Buckshot is like an atomic bomb going off, in you. I have 00 Buckshot Magnum. Shooting this is a unique experience.
Clearly the 000 buckshot is more effective than the 00 in this test. Another factor to consider however is shell length. With 2 3/4" ammo you typically have 9 pellets for a total weight of 474.2 grains with 00 buck and 8 pellets with a total weight of 560 grains with 000 buck. So you only have 11% less projectiles with the larger shot, which isn't much. With 3" shells you have 15 pellets with a total weight 805 grains with 00 versus 10 pellets with a total weight of 700 grains with 000. So you have 33.3% fewer projectiles with the 000 buck in the longer shell, which is substantial.. This might be enough to make the 00 buck a better overall proposition for the longer shells. Of course you also have to think about the fact that tubular mag shotguns will hold one less 3" round and the longer shells will recoil more.
I know you probably get asked to test a lot of stuff. If you don't already have it on your list, would mind testing the pdx1 segmented slug, or the 1 ounce slug, with 3 buckshot. I think it would be a cool video, and a great home defense round. Thanks, Jimbo
#1 buckshot all the way for me. Especially the Federal Premium flight control. The superb round for distances up to 40 yards. The greatest "stopping power". The best choice for home defense shotgun.
I have shot most sizes of shotgun ammo and a lot of different animals from every range possible. There is an extremely wide range of performances. Powder type and volume, shot size, volume and composition, chokes, barrel length and even the wads all change the performance, range and impact of a shot shell. The answer is not yes/no. The answer is "Depends on what you shoot, what you shoot it from and how far away"
Don't underestimate 00buck. It's a .33cal, 54gran pellet, traveling at +1,500fps@10yards, and carries almost %140 the ft/lb energy of a 65-70grain .32ACP at 900fps, times 8-12 pellets per shot... you do the math. I can say from experience each 00pellet slaps harder than a .38special against certain flat steel surfaces. 5rounds of .38 put large dents, a few of which split the metal slightly, but zero penetration. 00buck made 8 perfect punched out holes in a 10inch pattern from the same distance.
>Birdshot is easier to handle It's the same thing. >less likely to cause unwanted damage It will go trough walls anyway and shred objects of value. If you don't want to damage your house, don't use firearms. Specially shotguns. >deer rarely come within 5 feet of you But unlike burglars they don't wear leather coats and several layers of clothing over their skin. Which is pretty elastic and resistant to smaller shot sizes.
I think we shoot at gelatin and extrapolate that data to help determine potential lethality which is much different. In other words we are trying to INDIRECTLY measure POTENTIAL lethality. You would need to prospectively shoot people (or animal x) in large numbers under controlled conditions alongside gelatin to establish a direct correlation of gelatin results and lethality (or any other endpoint) in people (or animal x).
"Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body." www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-56-federal-flight-control-1-buckshot/
I’ve killed several deer now with the 3” #4 buck at 35 yards and closer. Never has it not dropped them in their tracks. The deer I shot with #4 buck at less than 15 yards this year had at least 20 pellets go the entire way through the chest cavity at the lungs and heart. #4 buck is my go to for short range deer killing. Tried and true shoots a denser pattern than 00 also.
@@JR-kc8jx Assuming you get a clean shot at the bad guys chest, #4 is great. But the reason we require at least 12" penetration in balistics gel, even though vitals are only a few inches deep in your chest, is because people tend to wear heavy clothes and put their arms out when they get shot at. #1 is the minimum to reliably penetrate to vitals through heavy clothing and bones in the way.
Even putting wound trauma aside, every extra pellet is another chance to hit a vital. If the 00 buck pellet and the #1 buck pellet are both penetrating enough to hit vitals, I'll take the one with more pellets.
Keep in mind that the smaller the shot the larger the surface area per ounce. #4 probably has double the surface area of 000 and thus double area of destroyed tissue. That's not accounting for penetration though.
I have 00 2.75 inch locked and loaded in my 12 gauge right now. I've bought #4 buck because it was the only buckshot available to buy recently, but in my opinion 00 or #1 are extremely effective and the best for my purposes. The 000 over penetrates. Maybe use that if you are trying to take down a damn grizzly bear, but an accurate placed shot with #4 using a choke to tighten the pattern will take down meduim size game or any size bad guy.
Absolutely,,12 bore is the most successfull mankiller ever made in human history. There in no rifled calibre ,even a big bore,which can be compared in effectivness and leathality with a 12 bore shotgun up to 20 meters. And 20 meters are to far. Anything beyond,is a millitary battlefield,,,
We are about the same...our double barrel loaded with 2.75 inch 00, for two shells we equal to anyone...we have some 3 inch 00 and #4 on hand, and a little #1...what i would like to have seen is a 3 inch #4 turkey load into the gel, as that might also be effective...I measured the in house range at at 14-15 feet, it would really hurt anyone at the wrong place wrong time...
I use Remington 000 Magnum Buckshot; 10 pellets advertised on the box at 1225 feet per second.. I'm more than confident it's a 'man-stopper'. Strangely I feel like birdshot would make a far nastier bloody wound.
Looking here, the only real benefit of a shotgun is the amount of holes it will make. People always compare like "Well #1 (or whatever size that's comparable) Is like, uh, shooting someone with 12 .32 ACP's" or some nonsense like that. It isn't... If you were to hit someone with a single buckshot pellet, it would most likely prove fairly ineffective. The only thing that does any significant damage is 000 buck, but shock wise, that .357 Gold Dot is the most amazing ballistic test I've seen.
Something to keep in mind. The density of the shot material matters as well. Though the best balance for very short range may be close to size 4 shot for lead, you will need to go bigger with steel probably size 2 to bb. However if you are willing to shell out for tungsten shot, a magnum load of size 6 shot would be very impressive. Tungsten is about 70% denser than lead. It will hold velocity over longer ranges and penetrate deeper for equal shot size and impact velocity. A lot more holes without giving up depth of penetration. If you like 00 buck in lead, check out size F in tungsten. Expensive, but nice.
Most ammo advertised as "tungsten" is actually a composite that is lighter than comparable lead loads. You can buy pure tungsten pellets online for handloading, but I've yet to find factory 12ga with 100% tungsten shot. If you don't believe me, you can calculate the weight of each pellet from the ammo specs yourself.
Shot placement is critical bro. People have actually survive being hit by a 50 caliber round. Yet the small .22 caliber has taken many lives. Center mass is key in most cases. Head shots and instant death should be left for Hollywood lol.
@@CAGECAM well, headshots are almost always fatal, center mass is just a hell of a lot easier. If you're in a situation where you're relatively certain you can land one though I'd always recommend it.
At in house distances the gun has to be aimed...shot doesn't magically spread toward a target at 15 feet, it makes a serious but relatively small spread of just a couple inches at best...hit the bad guy in the hand, it will blow his hand off, but miss center mass entirely...
@@PetuniaIii-pd1ww I may be wearing my captain obvious shirt here, but every shot should be aimed, because that's how firearms are designed. To be aimed. There are no magic firearms or ammunition. Having witnessed two of my friends shot, and being involved in, or witnessed a total of 12 shootings, I can say definitively, only aimed fire is effective, and even at that, not all aimed fire will hit the target. Adding to that, people don't stand still when being shot at, and depending on the circumstances, return fire tends to negatively affect one's aim. But no, double aught buck has failed to stop, even when the person was hit in the torso. The same goes for 30-06, and 8mm Mauser. Which is why people are taught to keep firing until the threat stops. I have seen. 357 with 158 grain hollow points fail to kill, with a head shot. Stop, yes, kill, no. Only Hollywood guns are effective in a high percentage of engagements.
Theirs a huge difference between a magnum turkey load and the low bass Walmart field loads most people are talking about when they say "bird shot". I'd imagine a 3 1/2 inch magnum 12 gauge turkey load could knock a man off his feet and stop his heart.
I am saying that birdshot small enough to do less damage to your property will still be a liability if you miss and does have a chance of not bringing a human down. Birdshot is for birds. There are larger sizes of shot, yes - but at that point you could just take the plunge to buck because they'll damage your house considerably. The day people start reliably hunting deer with birdshot I'll be convinced.
When people test birdshit they always chose #8 or the smallest possible. I'm curious how bb , #1 or #2 shot would compare to #8. Obviously won't compare to the instant shut down power you get from buck but want to see if it could put someone out the fight with more chance of them surviving
I use #4 buckshot.. 000 buckshot is impressive but it over penetrates. Which isn't ideal when you have neighbors. But if you live in the sticks it'd be perfect for both two and four legged animals.
Nice to see the visualization but there is no distance to reference or barrel specs, are these shots at 7 yards or 25 yards, are we shooting with an unrestricted barrel or a full choke? When selecting ammo for shotguns range you expect to fire and choke selection are critical. I would love to see multiple shots at different ranges and with different chokes it would be a long video but much more informing.
i keep 00 buck in my 870, slugs on the side saddle. If youve ever seen what these loads do to a deer you wouldnt think twice about it. Especially slugs...
I thought the point of ballistic gel testing is to determine penetration and the FBI among others decided a minimum depth of penetration 10-14" was required to indicate potential effectiveness. That is not the same as lethality. A .22 is lethal when accurately applied to the brain or heart, or given enough time sepsis from the wound may be lethal. I have read that 80+% of handgun wounds are survived while most of those rounds meet the FBI penetration standard.
I got shot in the shoulder with bird shot accidentally on a camping trip, I think me being drunk saved me from the pain and how I handled the situation because that shit hurt so bad and I had a whole in my back shoulder, thank god it was bird shot and not buck or slug. Shot guns are not pretty
Great video, your logic and evidence is hard to argue with. I run one ounce slugs in my shotgun, I have never had a problem dropping animals with one round with this combination.
Knew a medic who worked in the e/r of a Buffalo New York hospital, in the e/r of a south central Los Angles hospital and was a Navy corpsman attached the a Marine corp rifle squad. And heard him say that he ->never
For home Defense #1 Buckshot is my choice it has been shown to not over-penetrate as much but just as lethal, infact if you look at the chart it is more lethal than 00 after a few inches of travel and there are more pellets.
Vincent Trudel But against human target #4 is powerful enough to reach vital organs with ease. 41 pellets will do much more damage, than 15 pellets of 00 buck, with a higher chance of reaching heart. On top of that, #4 has much lower recoil.
Krzysztof Aleksandrowicz If 00 buck overpenetrates the person, then yes #4 would be the superior choice. But you have to keep in mind that each #4 pellets weighs 20 grains, they have less momentum so they are actually less likely to reach the heart, especially if the assailant is wearing thick clothing. 00 buckshot, despite not being perfect, has its own advantages: less likely to bounce off bones/skull, reliable penetration, exponentially more bleeding-per-cavity, etc. A 3 inch 00 buck is the equivalent of fifteen hits from a .32 ACP, while the 3 inch #4 is like 41 hits from a .22 short. Both are great, but I think 00 is more suited for deer hunting, while the #4 would be excellent for smaller critters such as coyote. IMO the perfect defense load is a #1 buckshot 3 inch. Twenty-four .30 cal pellets, each weighing 40 grains, going at .22lr speed. Basically the equivalent of an instant Ruger 10/22 magdump. Unfortunately #1 is hard to find, especially the 3 inch variant
I go with BB pellets for home defense, 1 buck for 10-15 yards, 00 for 15-25 yards, 000 for 25-40 yards (or 00 Federal Flight Control), and slugs for 40-200 yards. But that 000 hit was epic!
I just wanted to say I always look up ammo to see if there is one of your videos on it. Best gel tests on the Internet with no bad music or fumbling over words. Just data
Had they not missed the mark with the #1 Buck, you'd have seen that #1 buck has been tested to be most effective in penetration versus wound size in a soft tissue target. Most effective against humans without any armor.
You guys must live in tough neighborhoods. If you put ~2500 FPS of energy on the center of mass that will not stunt your attacker enough to repeat the process, then I suggest moving.
Lead Density=11.34 grams/cubic centimeter Lead Baseball weight=2596 grams /5.723 Pounds /91.56 ounces Lead Baseball @90mph/132 fps=1609 ft/lbs PHEASANT 12 Gauge Winchester Blindside 2-3/4" #5 Steel 1.25 oz 1400 fps 2380 ft/lbs. A baseball bat swung by an average professional baseball player generates about the same kinetic energy as a .38special 110grain Hornady Critical Defense round. ( 240 +/- ft/lbs).
People need to understand that each of those columns holding up the gel represents 1 inch. With birdshot, in close-up and the perfect conditions, the pellets average 3 inches, while the 00 buck penetrates up to 16 inches. I would use neither in self defense to avoid under-penetration and over-penetration. If you under-penetrate and have follow-up shots in mind, don't use pump action. Use double barrel or semi auto. You don't want to ready a 2nd shot too late, only to find that you have to shoot the threat while he is already on the ground, and forensics may see that and have you for murder. And 00 buck would go through and leave a trail of liability behind your target. I myself would range from a high brass #4 turkey load to a #4 buckshot for self defense.
Keep in mind that lighter, smaller pellets are often deflected by bone. If they put a rib cage in the gel block you would see a lot more people on here going for heavier shot.
Corporal Bravo Over penetration is not much of a factor with buckshot considering how quickly even 000 loses its energy. I would go as far as to say that over penetration doesn't even apply to buckshot in ANY meaningful way.
All that birdshot only went in a few inches and stopped dumping all the energy into the gel, if that hit your chest in HD ranges even with a coat on it wouldn't fell very good. Still low recoil 00 buck flight control is excellent bad guy stopper
The #1 buck shot looked like a partial miss compared to the others and had surprisingly bad results when compared to the 00. It didn't look like very many pellets hit the gel either. Should've been about 16 pellets but it didn't look like near that many. #1 has almost twice the payload of 00 at the same speed and only a tiny fraction smaller caliber. I expected better results from that one. Strange. Maybe just a bad shot and therefore bad results. Great video. Thanks for posting it.
00 is really good, proven and obviously has deeper penetration than the #4 Buck but I prefer #4 Buck for a few reasons. Less chance for over-penetration but certainly more than adequate stopping power and penetration along with increased hit probability. When you look at 27-.24 caliber pellets vs. 9-.33 caliber pellets it really comes down to the fact that more projectiles on target (three times) are marginally better than less of a larger caliber when you remove the penetration numbers. Without looking at ballistic gel movement and thinking more of a life situation the amount of pellets from the #4 will cause more force than the 00 due to the amount of wound channels it creates. Birdshot is for birds. In my opinion it has no place in home defense, you'd be surprised to find out that something as simple as a leather jacket can take the steam out of birdshot. 00 or #4 Buck, really either way you can't go wrong. #4 Buck is the minimum in size that should be used by most experts but too often people dismiss it as inadequate since it is what is considered the standard minimum. Thanks for the upload.
harleymichael83 I've found some good cheap sources of #1. I have 000 in my 590A1 right now and 75 rounds of #1 on the way. Picked it up for about $5.50 per 10 round box. It's Sellior & Bellot and I haven't tried it out to see how good it is but people tell me it's clean, high quality and reliable. J&G Sales has the cheapest I've seen lately.
Ian Sterner At 10 feet and under, wounds from slugs and buckshot are very similar. 1oz Foster slugs are designed to expand as well, so despite their weight and low velocity they are capable of creating enormous wound cavities
Vincent Trudel True, but in a HD situation you will most likely be doing point reflex shooting, using a single projectile in a firearm with a low rate of fire and high recoil in such a situation is unwise. With buckshot you have a decent hit probability. With 000 buckshot you can still kill or disable your target if only a few pellets hit.
Ian Sterner I didn't know we were discussing HD. I wouldn't use slugs for HD, not only because of the theoretical reasoning of having a "higher hit probability" (which is not exactly true inside the average american house), but also because they will penetrate through walls like paper. IMO something like #4 buckshot or #1 buckshot is a more reasonable load to use, and arguably more effective than 00 buck at home defense distance
I prefer to have #4 buckshot as my load for a home defense shotgun, although I could probably get away with 00 buck given how over-penetration isn't a concern for anything other than a field mouse or tree where I live. #4 buckshot is what I've seen recommended for MOST living situations, though, given how it's a balance of power without too much over-penetration.
I have done a lot of testing and I would say from a home defence factor I would say bird shot would almost bed better than 00buck because your target would be about 7 yards or closer in you home with bird shot you get more of a spread however not #8 low brass that wouldn't work you would need at lest #5 or better my opinion would be #2 also I would need to be a high brass high load oz. shot like a turkey load that way you get the spread and the penetration but great video I learned a lot from it thank you
I keep thinking if a turkey load was all i had at a in house distance it might do enough...the shallow but good spread of that #8 is the worst a shell can perform, bigger shot would steadily improve performance...
Been using club loads for home defense the thought being they won't over penetrate. Looks like its time to pickup some #4.. Great test, thank you for all the testing you do! I can't even begin to tell you how much it helps folks like me.
You'd be much better off using small buckshot(#4) or large bird shot(like turkey or geese loads). The small shot( 6, 7 1/2,8 etc) found in field loads usually lacks the ability to reach vital organs, which means the only thing bird-shot can do to stop someone is created pain. If the individual is on powerful drugs and you shoot them with bird shot you'll just piss them off.
