Should I RENT or BUY? | + Secret FAA Buying Guide 

Commenting this 2sec into the vid, but I want to thank you for you help man, and for free🤦🏾‍♂️. I know it comes back to you by flying cool planes and meeting helpful people. Furthermore, your videos have helped me become the first aviator in my family; got my PP certificate. THANK YOU💯

Some comments: I bought a Piper Cherokee 140 about half way through my private training. I picked one that I knew could be used for instrument training and I have since got my instrument rating in it. About 15 hours into ownership, a magneto failed and that cost $2300 to replace. I also had a pretty expensive annual - about twice what I planned for it to be. My tachometer failed and I had to replace that - costing about $1000. I recently replaced the engine vibration isolators for about $1000. All told the amount of unplanned maintenance I've had is pretty high - over $10000. Even with all that, owning an airplane has been a bargain for me. After adding up every penny of expenses and then dividing by the hours I've flown, the hourly cost for my airplane has been about $85/hr. The airplane I trained in before I bought mine cost $165/hr to rent. It's cost me roughly half what it would have cost if I'd rented. And that's including over $10k of unplanned maintenance in the first year. Some other comments: I want a hangar. I'm on several waiting lists. Flying the airplane a lot helps - but does not eliminate - the risks from corrosion. Re: A&Ps, go find other owners of your airplane type on your field and ask them who they use. Doing this, I found an A&P that encourages owner assistance. Which is perfect for me. Re: ADs, you can query all the ADs for your airplane and engine from the FAA. Google "drs faa ad final rules" and you should find a document that shows how to search for ADs for your airplane. And you can get the results in an excel spreadsheet. Don't forget ADs related to your engine. I took that sheet and then found every AD compliance record in my logbooks and came to my checkride with the sheet and tabbed logbooks. This not only helped the checkride, but during my first annual, I'd effectively done all of the research that the IA had to do since he'd never seen my airplane before. That saved some money.

Gent’s, Great explanation and was informative. Keep up the good work

This is a fantastic video! Thank you! I've been flying for three years now..... Looking to buy. This is perfect.

.. excellent video really great when you both uncover what us new pilots should be aware of and looking out for it's definitely reorienting to the way in getting started in aviation Many Mahalos Be Well ...

I have owned eight airplanes. I have found that 100 hours a year is the breaking point. If you fly more than 100 hours a year, you are better off owning a plane. Under 100 hours a year, you are better off renting. Of course, the advantages of owning and having the plane when you want it is worth a lot. Airplane ownership is very expensive. Things will happen, things will break, and things will definitely go wrong. If you buy a plane, you had better have deep pockets. The least expensive thing that you will ever do is buy the plane. After that, they get very expensive. I have been flying for a couple of decades and have never even seen a $10,000 plane. Today, prices are extremely high! Also, be sure to fly very frequently. These planes will go down very quickly. Lack of use, and corrosion, is a plane's biggest enemy. I fly three to four times a week.

Great video! I have considered buying my own plane because of the limited availability and selection of planes at my home airport. This video has made me think about my situation and whether I'm ready to own my aircraft. Thanks.

Thank you! I'll definitely get that "Plane Sense" handbook. I'm looking to buy a plane to finish my training, and this was good info. We're trying to make a wise choice. I've flown over 100 hours in the past year, and our rental prices are a little higher than average. We've found a nice plane for a really good price, but I know that's only a part of the total price. It was good to hear about some of the other things that I need to consider.

I got into a flight club to learn to fly. Saved me a ton of money

Great insight! I was highly thinking of buying an airplane and my cfi discouraged me with almost the same arguments, now I don't feel that bad about not doing it.. for now while training

Please do more of these!

Another great video! Thanks!

I bought a Mooney with a fly buddy after our PPL in order to build time for IFR. We both did our checkride in it and it was great. Forced us to learn about systems, ADs,... Was worth every penny.

What about buying one after your PPL? From your PPL to your commercial? Also a lot of schools will lease the plane from you and you can offset costs that way. Great content as usual!

Excellent video with great information. Any thoughts on joining a flying club as opposed to owning or renting?

There's also the third unmentioned option: Build I enjoyed the content presented. Great video!

I'm keeping my eyes open for a somewhat affordable 172 also for learning and getting my PPL. I believe it would be more affordable to buy, in my case, since I have 2 sons who also want to get thier licenses also and it would be much cheaper than renting. Also toying with the idea of purchasing land adjacent to my local airpoort to build hangers on. My understanding is they are all full in southwest Missouri and people are on waiting lists. Thinking of taking advantage of this as a business opportunity.

Another consideration for students with an ATP goal is that 141 schools must use 141 qualified aircraft. Mainly this means you use the school's aircraft. There may be a few smaller 141 schools that may work a deal to do a lease situation where you "lease" them your aircraft, they do all of the 141 maintenance schedule stipulated in their technical specs for their fleet, and then it qualifies for 141 training and is reserved exclusivly for you. This would be best negotiated before purchase, and the total cost will likely be close to just renting their normal fleet aircraft. Also their is an initial cost of bringing the plane into 141 compliance. ( I wouldn't discourage establishing this initial condition level for a personal aircraft, it is a great baseline, but it isn't strictly required. )

So amazing thanks

"More time at the casino" for some of us - we'll get there. lol

my hangar is $2000/yr My insurance is less than $700/yr My typical annual/Mx is less than $1500/yr I do any allowed maintenance myself. In the first few years of ownership I've only had ~$2000 of unplanned expenses total. Buy simple airplanes

I love listening to your interviews and am learning a lot. How about an episode on "Alternative ways of owning / accessing your own plane"? (I added this after I wrote the stuff below.) What about buying a plane and leasing it back to a school or club? I'd like to have access to one that I can't find anywhere locally. I don't think I can afford it just for myself, but a school could certainly benefit from it, and I'd be able to fly it as well, right? (ignoring the scheduling issues) Alternatively, what about splitting the cost of a purchase up among several parties? If there are 6 people, say, you could have everybody pay 20% of estimated annual costs and end up with enough reserves to hopefully handle most contingencies. How does one learn about the tax issues involved in these situations, and what would the best way(s) to own the planes be in these situations? (Corp, LLC, Trust, etc.) Are there any guides published anywhere that get into these topics? Being semi-retired and living in Phoenix, AZ, means I can pretty much fly anytime I want when the plane is free, but probably just when it's under 100F outside (ie, Oct-May).

I could rent a hanger and use it for storage it's way bigger and if you think about you can live in it too

LOL hangar 3k a year, down here in south Florida a small hanger IS 3k… a MONTH.

11 mins in so he may touch on it. But going the experimental route (im about half way through building a zenith) saves alot of money in basically every area..other than having to build the airplane. But im also "mechanically inclned" as a porsche automotive technician and engine builder lol. Still the zenith has been so easy to build so far that id recommend it to anybody that can follow directions to a T. And can also solve a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle.

A really good point about Pipers tending to cost less than comparable Cessnas. Any idea why? They tend to cruise better, too.

Hangar availability is going to probably going to keep me from buying a plane. Tie downs are sold out too. I even tried other states. It's really depressing.

I would hazard a guess, that most people who buy airplanes want to travel long distance with them to go visit friends and relatives. I don't think renting would be cost effective if you regularly want to fly out of state and spend Friday, Saturday, Sunday somewhere and come back to your local airport on Monday(if weather cooperates). Maybe for people who have money to throw out the window. Many lower income people on hourly wages may be eyeing the dream. But the dream is a big money pit. If you want the glorified bus ride, and are motivated to do it, you can find ways. But it will cost you big time. You are increasing your risk, your liability, and your expenses in life. Sure it will save you hours of drive time depending on how often you go visit friends and relatives and how far away they live, but you can't pull off the road and go check out interesting sites like you can when you're in a car. Bathroom breaks, stopping for lunch, etc all become more problematic. Weather becomes a huge factor. Do you HAVE to get back home by Monday at 8am for work? The weather where you landed may have other plans. Most of the time I visited a local airport, there were plenty of old airplanes on tie downs outside at the mercy of every storm that rolled through. I saw some of them get flipped by high winds and poor tie downs. Maybe the owners didn't care because the plane had not been used for decades. Many of them sure did not look airworthy. Bugs, birds, mice, hail, high winds, heavy snow loads, ice storms, sub zero temps. Still want to spend 50k and store that thing outside? Sure you can spend a lot less and get an ultralight and have fun locally. But you're not flying from Chicago to Miami in that. Take a look at the for sale ads on Barnstormers. Quite often you see the comment "lost medical must sell." How is your health? Aviation is a very expensive hobby. Sure you can eat Ramen noodles every week for 20 years and live in a crappy cheap apartment with 3 other people and make it work. How bad do you really want to do it? And don't forget when you land at a distant airport out of state, you may have no access to ground transportation. Uber and Lyft are not everywhere. If you want to go to town, you had better have planned ahead. But if you're a cheap Ramen noodle type, chances are you won't spend the money for any rental vehicles, or taxis. How badly do you want to save that drive time to go visit friends and relatives because you have the 10 to 14 hour drive if you take the car? Ultimately it is less costly to either drive yourself, or take a commercial flight, even with all the hassles. Can't stand commercial aviation hassles, then maybe you can find a way financially. But the average number of hours flown by private pilots on an annual basis hovers around 65 hours. That is not much flight time. How much free time do you have to keep your skills up to date? Or are you going to buy that plane, have your first year or two fun, and then watch it sit and collect dust in the hanger or out on a tie down. Winter flying? Better plan well ahead and get to the airport at like 4am. Shoveling snow to get your plane out. Pre-heating...how? Does that plane you bought even have decent working heat so you don't freeze your feet off? Are the door and all control surfaces frozen with a layer of ice? Aviation is fun they said.

Do I pay more owning my airplane than renting one....YES! But it's mine! I know how the maintenance is handled and I know what condition it will be in when I go to fly it because it will be exactly same condition when I flew it last. I enjoy airplane ownership with its ins and outs......sometimes things just don't have to make financial sense when it comes to fun toys.

The costs of used airplanes has broken the sound barrier. When I see 172Ns with new upholstery, knots2U flap mods, good paint and windscreen, 2 axis Autopilot, going for 180k$, I think it sort of kills the mojo of plane buying. I fly in coastal Maine. You need a hangar. But like all other real estate it’s becoming a joke to acquire. There are a ton of things to overlook during the pre but. One thing for sure, go through the log books carefully. The pre-buy should be a sort of mini annual. Do not have the AP who signed off on the annuals do the inspection. Arrange and fly it someplace else and pay for a fresh set of eyes on it.

Two different RU-vidrs that I follow and never imagined would end up in the same vjdeo

With all do respect to the people on this video in my own experience I say "BUY, BUY, BUY" for many reasons. First and most important piece of the training for a Private Pilot License is the "Convenience" of the access to a plane at a moments notice. Most PPL students are good weather pilots. They don't go out on days winds over 15 knots, overcast, foggy conditions etc. On any given Wednesday can you figure it out how the conditions are going to be by next Thursday with 100% guarantee. Of course not. Then it becomes a nightmare having appointments and then cancel them due to weather conditions or airplane's availability etc. etc. BUT the most important thing is when you are signed off for SOLO... Then, instead of going all that hassle, you wake up in the morning and realize it is a gorgeous day to fly, get to the airport and voila, you'll be flying... AND flying what? Not a school airplane that 10-20 maybe even more students flew after your last flight in that one. Does the engine sound a little different, is there a different vibration compared to when you fly it the last time.... You'll not be worrying in all of that... There are great little airplanes like Cessna 150 and Piper Tomahawks available on the market at 30,000 range... If you get a loan all you put down is about 15% which is around $4500/ $5000... Then your monthly $25,000 loan payments will be around $300 - $325 range... That is a 10 yr loan. Fly your plane for a few years. Take care of it and sell it for more than you purchased. I have purchased my PA28 Cherokee 140 in March 2016 before my first ever lesson for $21,000. First I've found a flight school and sellers flew the plane to their location, their mechanics did the pre-purchase inspection and when it passed with flying colors (pun intended) I bought it. Then sold it for 11 months later (after 74 hrs flying including lessons and solo) for $27,500... Then I bought my second plane and for $24,000 (Piper Tomahawk) flew it 4 years and about 220 hrs then sold it for $39,000. I have never ever worried about plane's availability during any phase of my training. Yes, it cost some money up front (down payment of $5000) but when I was signed off for solo, the convenience of waking up in the morning and seeing it's a beautiful day for flying and then taking off on Runway 32 within 20-30 minutes was PRICELESS! I live only 1 mile away from my local airport BTW. Currently I am about to purchase my 4th airplane. Nothing fancy. Possibly another Tomahawk or Cessna 150 but this time I am looking to get my IFR rating... Good luck on your endeavors and fly safe all!

Thanks! Where are you located.

Great video, the guy obviously knows this stuff. A couple of notes though: 1. In my mind it is a very, very bad-no-good-terrible idea to buy an airplane for primary flight training. On top of all the great reasons outlined in this video, the main reason is that the vast majority of students never finish, and a lot of those who do stop flying forever soon after they pass (or fail) the checkride. They won't tell you that at any flight school, but that's how it is. Now you're stuck with an airplane you don't need or use - that could also have problems that make it unsellable because you knew nothing when you bought it. Don't do it, it's stupid. 2. Please, please! don't think of an ancient piece of junk as an investment. Only people with zero background in finance can think that. Just because it has already depreciated as much as it could possibly depreciate doesn't mean it's an investment. There is a reason it did that - it's because it's an ancient piece of junk. It's incredibly expensive to operate, completely impractical for 99% of people to fly, anything can break at any moment for no reason, and a random AD can ground it FOREVER with zero notice. Don't buy it as an investment; it's a very expensive luxury (yeah, I know) toy and a consumption item. 3. It can be tempting to perform a breakeven point analysis on your rent cost vs your buy cost (as was indeed suggested in this video). In my opinion, that's a big mistake. Same as rent a house vs buy a house analysis very few people can do it correctly to begin with, but here the problem is that you'll basically never really break even. Even if your numbers are correctly compared apples to apples you just can't account for additional risks that come with ownership. Your plane could get stuck away from base for weeks or months, it could go down with a problem so expensive to fix that you won't be able to afford it period (I know people with aircraft in shops and out on ramps for decades), and an AD could ground it permanently at any time. It just doesn't work. You don't buy because it's cheaper, you buy because you get freedom of not needing to schedule it or bring it back on time. That is the only reason and there can never be any other (outside of very specific scenarios like maybe time building). Otherwise great vid.

1:25 not advice I would give. I flew a LOT less renting than owning. This due to scheduling/availability issues with the rental aircraft. As soon as I bought an airplane and was freed from scheduling/availability issues, I flew 5x more in the first year alone than I did on a typical year renting. The freedom to go on longer trips, stay overnight without crippling fees, limitations on where i could take the aircraft.... And my cost per hour is now 1/3 what it was when renting, so even if I spent the same amount of money as a typical year of renting, I'd have 3x as many flight hours.

If you want to learn more about Airworthiness Directives, Seth and I discuss that over on his channel. Here’s that video if you’re interested: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2KY-g8FOwd8.html

There's also a term to own a plane with other owners. Does it mean cost effective?

Hangars are hard to come by where I live

I bought a plane with 20 hours on my PPL never got my Private Lic due to having so much flying all over on my student Lic .

Wow can you actually buy a 172 in the States for 30k?!

You the Best I want to become e pilot Are you have a pilot scool?

for best audio, be no more than 1' away from microphone and speak "in to" the microphone. audio makes a video more watchable.

Don't you have to purchase insurance with a rental?

I've heard the saying, "Only the rich or foolish purchase planes." I'm not rich but i'm still looking to buy... so... 🤥 The way I see it, my wife likes to look at houses online and I like to look at the planes. 😂

My question is how do you guys find 30-40k planes I’ve been looking at trade a plane and controller but they all over 55k for a piper from the 60s with bad interior ugly paint job and mediocre avionics

Disagree, sort of. If someone wants to buy a plane and the goal is to fly about or maybe very short hops. Then light sport would be good. You don't have to rent a hanger BUT, I would store it under some sort of covering. You can move the aircraft from and to the airport on a trailer. So, for example, I live on a small farm, I have a barn, and so I could store it in there with the airport 3 miles away. But if I had a plane I would have to replace barn as it's not completely closed in my case. Now, if you are going to fly distance then I would rent as the maintenance cost is going to likely be higher than what was mentioned. Because you will have 300 and 600 hour maintenance . Not, that you don't have it on light sport but you can perform more maintenance on light sport than you can on larger aircraft if you don't have an A&P. All of this been said; light sport can be just as pricey. Worse case I have seen lately was 120,000 usd. Short of is, if you have a light sport, a hanger on your property or garage depending on size, a truck and trailer then I would go light sport. If that becomes to be too much then I would sell it and go back to renting. It could be a cheaper route.

Does the $10,000 include fuel?

With plane prices having skyrocketed recently, I think I'm going to rent while I get my license. I wish I could predict the future to know if the economic collapse is really going to hit in the next year. I think it's enough of a probability that I don't want to hold the bill to a plane that I bought for 80k only to have it worth 50k by 2025

People are finding usable planes for $30k? Everything online looks to start in the $50k range with $70k being more realistic for an IFR rated plane. A 172 without an engine that needs an overhaul and IFR rated is north of $100k.

Here in Alaska, 99% of GA planes are just tied down😂

Did you ever make the follow up video mentioned at the end? Love your videos by the way! First one I stumbled on last year was a 30 minute overview about weather theory. Edit: found it! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-65OrEtsCe5g.html

Whatever, Go buy an airplane…… Jesus what have I done.

Does everyone that own a plane a millionaire? Even when i was making $200K it did seem like it made any sense financially to fly a plane much less own one. I've always wanted to fly but, WOW! Is the goal of the aviation community to keep as many people out of it?

Correction: Should you buy an airplane..not “and airplane” ;)

Do NOT buy any aeroplane. At most, share one, but don't buy one outright individually. You will be tied to a ton of expenses. Flying is extremely expensive, however modest the aircraft. Aeroplanes and flying in general have become UNTENABLE for anyone except the very well off. No journey for "business" ever justifies the cost. As inconvenient as airline ticket transportation is, owning and running the cheapest GA aircraft is unbelievably expensive, and it's not that convenient anyway. By all means buy an aeroplane if it gives you pleasure, but not a single aircraft will ever be an economic advantage for plain transport. The GA world has outpriced itself for many years now.

So essentially, only the rich can ever own a plane. Gotcha...