Should I Take Out a Student Loan for Law School? 

Say goodbye to debt forever. Start Ramsey+ for free: bit.ly/35ufR1q

If lawyers and doctors didn't take out student loans we literally wouldn't have any doctors or lawyers.

Robert, my wife is a lawyer so she has had to do this and the amount of work required to get a law degree, it is one of the hardest degrees to work through and requires 110% of your focus every single day. Holding down a part-time job and trying to get a law degree at the same time might be possible for a small number of hyper-focused people but for most it is just going to be too much.

$15k won't pay for living expenses for 3 years of law school

My law school’s tuition is $60k/year. In 1960, it was $400 (roughly $4k in today’s dollars). Even after accounting for inflation, it has risen 15x in 60 years. This is unsustainable. Dave should know better than to tell someone to just cash-flow something that isn’t cash-flowable. Law schools today are offering great scholarships, but that doesn’t mean you should go to any law school that hands you a full-ride. I guarantee you that paying $150k in loans for a Top 14 law school degree will give you a much better career than going to a terrible law school on a full ride. Dave may not check where his lawyers went to school, but law firms, government, and judges (for clerkships) absolutely do.

You can’t work and go to a top law school. This advice is bs....they should have asked the caller what law school does he go to. That’s a better indicator of what answer should be given. You can’t cash flow certain professions.

Dave would probably disagree with my decision, but I’m currently on track to leave law school with about 20k in total student loans to cover my living expenses. I made that decision because if I had not gone to law school full time it would have meant losing my $60,000 a year full tuition scholarship. I don’t regret my decision at all, as I feel it was the smartest decision for my circumstances.

Does Mr Ramsey think working part time can pay for law school tuition + living expenses? There is no winning in this system for most of the working class!

College tuitions have skyrocketed over the past thirty years and a LOT of the costs aren't related to paying the professors or providing a better education. Today, adjunct professors and those without tenure get paid peanuts to teach at most schools. The big money is going to bloated bureaucracies, overly-large departments and lavish benefits for those at the top. The students are just a means to the schools' profit-making ends. Guaranteed student loans subsidized by the federal government and taxpayers have just added fuel to the raging tuition fire. In the end the biggest losers are the students who graduate with mountains of debt that they can't repay with the meager salaries offered if they are lucky enough to land a job. On the other hand, I've never known a poor plumber.

Don't think people realize that is not possible for everybody. If you're an A student, you might be able to do law school while working part time. However if you struggle to obtain good grades, you won't be able to do both studying while working part time.

I like Dave and his advice but he's living in a baby boomer bubble when it comes to student loans. He lived in a time where you could work and cash flow college. The problem is the cost of college has skyrocketed since the baby boomers were young and wages have been stagnant for decades. They didn't answer his question about how he should pay for the entirety of his education. If you take and pay for one course at time like they said, you're going to be going to law school for a very long time.

Do people honestly have 160k saved up for law school? It's great if there's savings but that's not realistic for majority of people, hence the $1.7 trillion student debt epidemic as mentioned. Granted, there are cheap options for Tier 3-4 law schools but if you're looking for return on investment, you're trying for at least a Tier 2 ranked law school which aren't cheap.

I have a bad feeling about this guy in law school, if he called Dave Ramsey and wasn't even able to do the basic research about Dave Ramsey and debt. He has a loan on a car that's over 50% what he makes in a year, strike one. He has a bunch of savings despite being in debt, strike 2. And he called FREAKING DAVE RAMSEY to get advice about taking out a loan. That's not even a strike. That's something that gets you ejected from the game and banned from the league.

I don’t think student loans are inherently bad, there’s certain professions where you may need to use them like becoming a lawyer or doctor. The most important thing is to try to take out as little as possible and have a plan to pay them back as quickly as possible.

Just what florida needs another lawyer.

This whole thing is silly and almost no one in the comments knows the law school process. He should retake the LSAT and score high enough for a full ride or close to full ride at a lower ranked school - unless he gets into a T-14. I’d take the loans out for HYS but beyond that it’s silly. Law schools offer full rides to top students. He can also go to school part time and work full time, as there are many programs that offer that as well.

Unless I got into a top 15 law school, I wouldn't even consider being a lawyer too financially risky.

Currently a 3L finishing law school at UND. I'm top 10 in the class and am cash flowing school. We saved before I went. I worked occasionally during school and worked overtime during summers, applied for every scholarship, and tightened our lifestyle to nothing. DO NOT WORK YOUR FIRST YEAR. If you do, you will have trouble. Save up until you can cash flow and live the first year. After that, you can get a part time job and be fine. Law school is very intense and a ton of work. Be sire you are ready. Money problems will cause unnecessary stress. Stick with the babysteps and pay cash.

I seriously regret my student loans. If only I could go back in time!

The first words out of Chris hogans mouth literally stole the thoughts from my brain. And now im wondering how her did that🤔🧐

Why is everything so all or nothing? Try something in the middle: work and save for living expenses. Take out a loan only for tuition and books. Also, try to work during vacations or between semesters.

My macroeconomics professor told us NEVER go to law school. No jobs. Very saturated market. Need to be grandfathered in.

*If you can avoid loans then you'll do better in the long run* ❤️❤️

How you gonna cash flow law school from delivering pizzas? 😳😬😜

Idk if I’d work while studying to be a doc or lawyer

I took out 190k of student loans to pay for law school. Best decision of my life, from both career satisfaction and financial standpoints. Only do that if you are close to certain you can get a job in a big law firm (which probably means you only take out loans if you can get into one of the top 10 schools) and will be well suited enough to the job and diligent enough to stick around at a firm for 5ish years. In all other cases, it is hard to recommend taking out significant student loans for law school.

Dave is right, it's 1.5 Trillion.

He has $15,000 in “safe” stock that he expects to grow 33% by the fall?? Uh...

I went to a decent law school. I treated it like a job -- I went in at 8 a.m. and left at 5 p.m. When I wasn't in class, I studied. But when I went home, I had a toddler to take care of. There wasn't time for a job. If I didn't have a kid, I could probably have worked. At a minimum, make sure you get summer internships that pay. If you use that money wisely, you can reduce or even eliminate the "lifestyle loans" that you need to pay your rent. Also, focus on scholarship money to reduces your costs. And you can use your law degree for other industries and make good money, too.

If he can take federal loans amounting to less than his first years salary then yes. He should take some. If he only takes loans for tuition at an instate university and skips books and housing he would be fine to keep working part time or not at all with his nest egg. He should 100% take those loans. Otherwise he is stunting his career growth for no reason. Attempting to work full time while going to law school would also increase the odds that he fails out. The point about him failing the bar makes no sense at all. The bar is a risk he would be taking either way but at least with loans he will get there faster. Student loans can be a good bit of leverage if used correctly.

I got in law school over 3yrs ago, but cannot go bc you cannot work during your first year of law school, and only part time going forward. No school worth going to has an evening or weekend program. As a single worker with no parental support, how on earth would I pay my rent in NYC?? Furthermore, how would I simultaneously cash flow upwards of $75k/yr on tuition? This was not good advice; I'd say live off the student loans (maybe even dorm if it's cheaper than rent) & use the $15k to either live off of after graduation while interviewing for that high paying job, or pay the interest on the student loans so they don't amoralize after graduation. Good luck to him 👍

Waiting for that call: Should I take out a loan to get an economics degree?

Law school is not a part-time degree. Study as much as you can to get a good LSAT score that leads to a scholarship and less debt. I’m much better off for taking my loans and getting my career started in law. Don’t pay for prestige. A solid state school provides great value!

Seems like Robert needs to consider a multitude of variables before making this decision. Location, bar pass rates, desired field of specialty, salary projections, etc. We're talking at least $100k + interest for the three years at an in-state public law school, and then there's living expenses. So more like $150k + interest. It's easy to be near $200k in debt within a few years of graduation, the road to debt through age 45. You have to ask yourself, why and is it worth it?

This kid is 100% taking out a student loan to pay for school

I don't always agree with Dave but in terms of student loans he's 100% correct. NEVER BORROW FOR COLLEGE OR GRAD SCHOOL. The debt isn't worth it anymore.

I am not as hard-lined as Dave when it comes to studet loans. I believe that there are circumstances that allow for student loans. The degree needs to be worth it(marketable and in demand), and you have to have demonstrated an academic ability to achieve the degree. In other words, there has to be a high probability that you will complete the degree, secure a job that requires the degree, and pay off the student loan within two years. If all three of those are a yes, I'm good with that. I graduated in 1993 with a BS in Electrical Engineering and had $15,000 in student loan debt. Paid it off quickly with my first job that paid $30,000. Fifteen years ago obtained my Master's (cash flowed it). Currently work for the Government with a six figure income, Roth IRA, TSP (401k), and an annuity waiting for me when I retire (early). I'll never regret getting that student loan.

Fortunately law schools offer large scholarships to attract top students. If his LSAT score is low, he should retake the test and delay law school. If he knows which state/city he wants to work in, a reputable local lower ranked school might offer a full ride. The T14 only works out if your family is rich or you’re okay with big law. Part time law school programs typically don’t even offer scholarships.

Ohhh Dave said "be nice to him" 😂😂😂

Lol this dude, “I’m hoping my 15k investments will grow to 20k by the time I start” yeah good luck with 33 percent returns in a couple of months while still managing risk lol

Chris' mind is gonna be blown when he finds out its 1.7 trillion not billion lol

Honest question, could he continue to work for 2-3 years to save up? Or would he need to re-take the tests? His wage is really low, but I’m guessing he could pickup another job to supplement that 30,000 he’s making. That’s what I would do if I felt passionate enough about becoming a lawyer if it was possible

Don't know about this. Basically saying only the rich can go to law school then regular people can't be lawyers and obtain wealth. Go, pass the bar, pay off the debt

1:39 - "It might take a little longer". Not really, when you consider it'll take decade(s) to pay off a loan. So for him to work nights as he goes to school, then leaving without a loan, IS the quickest way to get it done.

I have worked with two individuals who worked full time and attended law school at night. It can be done. Bonus, when they passed the Bar, our company had a job waiting in the General Counsel's organization.

He'll be earning enough to payback that loan in 1yr. Wy make his time miserable in law school instead of focusing on school? Stupid advice!!

Spot on Dave, thanks

I read the title and really laughed out loud!!

Reading the title and knowing Dave's answer before hitting play.

If possible avoid debt at any cost.

I agree that things may not work out and you may be stuck with big loans. This happened to me with medical school. I was tremendously blessed to get a cushy position as a corporate doctor in research. However I personally know of people with $500k in loans who could not get into residency and only make about $50k now. It’s a huge financial risk but I know if you feel it’s your calling it’s hard to resist.

For the love of god if you care at all about your future...DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL! Lawyers are already becoming obsolete and you can get statistically better legal advice from a computer than a human. Use your intelligence for something that is just as fulfilling and can support you financially.

This is the law school student loan trap, which my ex-wife fell into. In fact, the only thing that she says that she hates more than me, is her law school (Georgetown). Now l am not sure that she really hates her law school more than me, but she has a level of debt that she will NEVER be able to pay off. Don't be that person, because law schools make big promises but payout like a lottery.

If a loan is what separates you from a high paying lucrative career, then it is absolutely worth it.

I took out a loan for grad school for a two year program and it paid off in the long run. I would have went to a much less expensive school but that one was extremely hard to get into.

It seems a lot of people are taking out student loans for housing costs. Unless there are drastic circumstances, or your desperately poor, I don’t know why parents do not let kids live at home while they are in school

I paid for undergrad & grad school.. thought maybe I could use as a tax write off. Nope, I make too much yet had I taken a student loan I could write off the interest. Is it crazy to now want to take a student loan for law school?

That’s nice though that law school offers that as an option to go part time so you can work some. I know pharmacy school, medical school, and dental school don’t Offer that so unfortunately the only way to pay for those degrees outside of family money or possibly military is student loans. Remover graduate/professional school can be 60 hour a week job on its own.

Hoping your stocks increase 30% is not a plan. What if they go down 30%, like they did in March 2020?

Love how dave is just doing something else

There are a lot of sharks in the sea. My ex-wife was a legal secretary and worked for a one man law firm for many years. I'll just leave it there. I know of two young women who attained masters and phd degrees on student loans. They sacrificed for many years to get them paid off before embarking on their livelihood. Good luck!

Come on Dave. It all depends on where you're going to school. If you're going to an Ivy League law school taking out a loan might not be such a bad idea. Dave is always NO LOANS NO MATTER WHAT. That's a mistake sometimes.

You can go to law school P/T at night but it won't be at the top law schools.

My sister is 28 and 350k in debt from law school/cmu. She is a state appointed attorney right now making like 48k a year. I’m 29 and I’ve got about 5k in debt and make about 50k a year. Granted some day she will make more than me but not for a LONG time

What accredited decent law schools can you make 40k a year and pay your way through school? Decent schools cost 30k or more a year to attend. Alot of ppl who haven't been through law school assume they know the work load when in reality they have no clue. Law school and undergrad are two different beast.

Great content Dave!

Taking out debt, and delaying entry to the labor market. The "debt and delay" model. Popular, and scary.

Ok this didn't do anything to help the caller. Dave is both right and wrong here. Taking out a $200k loan to go to law school is indeed foolish, UNLESS you are going to an ivy league / top 10 law school. If you can't get in to a top tier school, then your best bet is to go the least expensive school possible. Hint: the ABA doesn't accredit part-time or night time schools. And it is nearly impossible to have any sort of real job while in law school so yeah, unless one has rich family, a loan is almost unavoidable. Saying otherwise is either ignorant, bad advice, or just unrealistic.

Honestly, the single best thing you can do to be a lawyer with little to no debt is kill it on the LSAT and your gpa and then apply to schools where your score(s) are above their 75th percentile. Most schools will give you $$$ and even let you negotiate for more if you have great offers elsewhere.

Disagree on working and going to law school. That being said why be a lawyer? There is a surplus of lawyers and the debt you get into is a nightmare

If you are that passionate about becoming a lawyer than move to a state/ city where law school is cheaper. For instance Med school is cheaper in Texas

Sure if you want a debt that will take you 15 to 20 years at the least to pay off.

Unless you are planning to be a lawyer - and not just looking for another thing to add to your resume - don't do it. I know plenty of people with law degrees that are working in jobs that they could have had without the time, effort and expense of getting a law degree. It might have helped them get the interview, but unless you want to work in a law firm, don't bother. An MBA would be a better use of time and expense.

Appreciate all the advice!!

Thankfully there is no career that can't be cash flowed. You just have to think more critically and not take the lazy way out of student loans.

Dave should I use student loans for my MFA in Left Handed Puppetry? 🤔

How would people afford schools if they don't take out loans? Like people going to become nurses and doctors

I would recommend he gets some powerscore books and study like crazy. If he gets a 165 I’m pretty sure that he can go absolutely anywhere in Florida for free. You could become a paralegal if you don’t pass the bar. I personally know a paralegal that makes 70000 a year. Good luck 👍🏼

Dont go unless you have a STEM degree or get into a top ten law school. The higher your law school ranks, the easier it will be for you to find a job. If you have a stem degree you can do patent litigation which is always in demand. Your class rank is also critical. Even at a top ten school. Unless you rank in the top half, it will be difficult to land a top paying job. At at 2nd or 3rd tier law school, you will need to be in the top ten percent or even one of the top 3 or 4 students. And when you graduate, be prepared to work 60-70 hours a week.

Honestly why do people ask the same question expecting a different answer...

*Tay Roc voice*: Don't do that

Once again the answer is no!

The dirty little secret here is that all three of Dave's children went to school on Dave's dime but not everyone has Dave for a father. 90% of this issue can be solved with personal responsibility and not taking out loans, agreed. But don't assume that everyone has the same starting position on this planet.

Honestly , he’s right & he’s wrong . Law degree just like every college degree isn’t worth what it used to . You can fail the exam and you can graduate with no job Offers . Then it’s not worth it . But the reality is that law school is 25 k at least . Some going up to 50 k which is easy 75,000 to 150,000 sometimes more . There are limits to working . He’s right you can take two classes a year or be part time and work but most of the Time your grades suffer . Which isn’t good or you can’t get as good of a. Internship because you have to work . The advice should have been to save up as much as possible & only loan what’s necessary. I’m doing a gap year to save for law school currently & knock out some debt .

College tuition has increased due to government lending of unforgivable student loans. Why not collectively raise tuition if it Means governments will lend it and students will borrow it? Also, want tuition to skyrocket even more? Forgive the student loans on the backend. We’ll see million dollar tuition soon.

I wish there was a way to self teach with books and learning on the job which could gain the piece of paper that we pay a fortune for when we go to college. It is such a rip off.

Don't take law school loans...they WILL hamstring you. Pay as you go. Do it in 5 years instead of 3 years full time. Finish without that debt. I know first hand how it hamstrings your career start. Its not fair, but some state bar associations will hold your debt against you when you apply to take their exam...so just don't borrow.

There's a glut of lawyers. We don't need you.

1.7 Trillion $ loan not billion Logan

Young people think being a lawyer is glamorous and lucrative. The reality is that all you ever deal with is human conflict. It is now a dog-eat-dog world for solo and small firm practitioners chasing after the same OWI offenders and car accident victims. The most satisfying law jobs are those in public service such as prosecutors and public defenders. These jobs don't pay enough to enable someone to live a comfortable lifestyle (house, kids, retirement savings) and payback six-figure debt. As a retired government service lawyer and adjunct law professor, I tell young people only to go into law if: 1. You can't see yourself doing anything else with your life, 2. You have a 160 or higher LSAT score which will enable you to get into a better law school (and a "big firm" job) or get scholarship money, or 3. Have a job lined up with the family firm. I employed several young lawyers who had over $200k in student loans and who were (and are) counting on Public Service loan remission after 10 years. That program is a pipe-dream. If you have any other career options, stay away from the law. Night school is really not a viable option under most circumstances.

Come on, now. You know what the answer is...edit: haha Hogan took the words out of my mouth!

The unrealistic advice that Dave Ramsey and team gives is amazing. Going to law school while working? Unless you're doing that part time, it's absolutely silly to do that. Especially, the first year where so much is thrown at you with 50 hrs a week of study, assignments, and adjusting to the Socratic method. How are you gonna work for enough to justify the insanity? After that, you need to do internships to set yourself up after graduation. For many, it can take 10+ hours to prepare for a moot court. Doing this according to their advice would take a student a decade to complete. The best thing to do is to have low/no debt from the undergraduate degree, a GPA over 3.7, and a high LSAT to get larger scholarships. Their advice is only for people who want to be low level workers and worker bees. Which explains all this delivering pizza nonsense. Because despite what we might think about it, degree inflation is real. HR departments around the country have no problem with throwing away applications of "experienced" applicants over inexperienced degreed applicants. When given a choice the average hiring manager will choose a college grad over a high school graduate. It's a documented fact. We don't have to like it, but it's a reality that isn't going away at least another couple decades, if ever.

I would never take out loans to go to a law school lower than a T14

Yes. There is no way you are going to get a job and save up a ton of money to be able to pay it off. You'll be a lawyer in your mid 30s!

Nope, you shouldn't Robert!

Guys! Just google: “FBC fund”! You will go nuts!

This was terrible advice. It’s obvious that Dave and his peers don’t understand how law school works. 1. Most law schools do not offer a part time or night program (or if it does, it’s very very limited circumstances only). ABA accredited schools require full time enrollment. 2. Most law schools place a heavy restriction on the number of hours students can work a job each week outside law school, and in some cases working is even prohibited entirely. Law school requires a lot more time and dedication to studying than undergrad. Either way, it’s NEVER recommended to work during 1L year. 3. Law school is much more expensive than undergrad. I’m in law school and my law school prohibits students working more than 10 hours a week unless the student can demonstrate high academic ability and the ability to take on more hours, in which case they get a waiver (very rare though). Furthermore, it’s full time or nothing except for very narrow, rare circumstances. A better piece of advice would have been to get a high LSAT score and go for as many scholarships as possible, and apply for as many outside scholarships as possible. Obviously it’s best to exhaust options for free money first, but because of all the limitations described above and given the high cost of law school, most people will likely have to take out at least some loans if they want to go to law school. So unless you’re born into wealth or are privileged enough to have $100K-$200K+ just laying around to pay for tuition, books, supplies, and living expenses for 3 years, you will inevitably need to take out some loans. This advice to “cash flow” law school was extremely out of touch and uneducated. This isn’t the same as undergrad.

I have said this in another Ramsey video, but it is worth saying again. Law degrees are basically useless these days. They have been mass produced by for-profit law schools which completely saturated the market with lawyers. Unless you are well connected and get some highly competitive internships, you will be making ~$30K as a lawyer coming out of school AND you will be grinding. I know too many people who thought going to law school was going to guarantee them a high paying and enjoyable job..... that is no longer the case. Heck, I know a lawyer who had to enlist in the Army to get his student loans paid off because he was so upside down going to law school..... Re-think your life plans bro. Please.

Why did you call Marriot workers at $8 per hour Twerps? As a long time fine that's disappointing and is something you should call out

I should’ve dropped off of college