Should Minors Transition? Detransition vs Trans | Middle Ground 

❤❤❤❤ great edit.

Thanks for giving detransitioners a platform.

Manipulative editing, obvious

These videos are actively harmful. Read your comments and see what your editing supports. Clearly, this video has supported the views of transphobes. As trans healthcare is being stripped away, children are being kidnapped for being trans, and hate crimes continue to skyrocket, I am honestly shocked that you would 1) make this video and 2) edit it like you did. This is dangerous and will only harm trans people. There’s a space to hear from detransitioners, but this wasn’t the space as it wasn’t an honest representation of people who detransition. The vast majority of detransitioners are trans - they just couldn’t continue with medical transition due to financial/social factors. Because I’m tired of responding to everyone asking the same question of “how do you know?” -> Source: Factors Leading to ‘Detransition’ Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis”

@@spookygreg How can you make such a comment? "Vast majority"?? How do you know?

Thank you!!! Adults should be able to make decisions that will change their lives, not children

Yes 🎉🎉

Most children who transition are much more likely to stay trans then people who transition as adults.

@@Mary-ec6zh puberty is also perminant so ur putting trans kids thru what they will spend the rest of their life trying to change.don’t call life saving medical care disgustingly

@@mookchie most of the currently transitioned ones stated they would support children going through these surgeries

Social transitioning at a young age is different from getting surgery

well, luka wasn't trans to begin with. both she and her parents f'ed up. real trans people shouldn't have to suffer because people like her made a mistake and regret it

​@@Je-jt5bv trans healthcare is affirmation ONLY. how can the parents mess up if the only option is AFFIRM.

@@Je-jt5bv THAT’S THE POINT!!!! 🤦🏽‍♀️ This is exactly what’s going to happen if we let young children who don’t even know what they want for dinner to get on puberty blockers. SMH.

Exactly. They didn't realize how they were contradicting themselves.

Glad you caught that too

The reason why is because they didn’t get a second opinion from medical professionals and that was partially their fault, w/ the bodily autonomy statement there is an idea already placed that there has been multiple opinions from medical professionals because it tends to take that and yes this was a very tragic event that happened to luka but this shouldn’t be at looked or placed as the fault of trans people, this is partially the fault of Luca’s parents but mostly the medical professional who didn’t guide them to other people as well

Yes of course and the fact that people contradict themselves at such a great level is just wow. Everything you said and more!

@@Sebayee In a number of jurisdictions, the defacto treatment for gender dysphoria is acceptance and beginning transition. Practitioners are afraid to take a wait and see approach due to being accused of transphobia.

It's the hypocrisy in that presentation for me. Some parents are abused for even taking a stand for their children. It's so sad .

Luka was super cool too! Like she wasn't attacking anyone, but she went through a terrible experience followed by negligent medical care that has negatively affected her entire life. I can understand why others were getting defensive, but going back to "the LGBTQ+ society is not as accepting as they claim" it all comes back to getting stuck in our own bias that other people's experiences are going to be similar to our own. Same reasons some homosexuals have been against trans people because "they just can't accept being attracted to the same gender." Absent of measurable evidence, trust people's lived experience.

She supports banning gender affirming healthcare for others based on her experience

The pro trans are so self absorbed and narcissistic and living in a different reality.

bc de-transistioners literlaly put a pen in their whole agenda. the main quota they live by is "trans are born trans and it's not a phase or mental issue"... so anyone who has the oppisite experience from their community is completely alienated.

@@kateofone not just others for CHILDREN

Luka is not a real trans person, it was a defensive reaction to wipe out traumatic exprience and have a fresh start.

Because she kinda said she never was trans she was abused as a teen…

@@p4nd4b01 and thats a perfect example of why children shouldnt be able to transition at a young age, if children in abusive situations are given this opportunity to transition it leaves them vulnerable to be in even more mental (and possibly physical pain also, like luka) in their adulthood.

The two replies here are like, completely braindead. I completely agree with you, they try to look for the stupidest / out of focus thing to blame it on the detransitioner. Point blank is: Parents were told "Trans or kid dies", so they responsibly listened to the doctor, and the doctor failed as a profesional. It's not about: "Oh but you didn't have GD / That was your parent's fault". It's about NOT transitioning kids/teens because kids/teens DON'T KNOW what they want in life yet. It seems like explaining basic child caring.

@@tong8619 I think it’s actually quite upsetting and messy. Its sad how dismissive a lot of the trans community/supporters can be to anything contridicting their points, because it makes people feel like you’re being transphobic or aren’t with the trans community at all when that isn’t actually always the case. I support the trans community, to an extent, because yes there are a few things like this that I disagree with and that should be okay. And I’ve seen a lot of doctors and surgeons go with the transitioning because they’re scared of being judged or “cancelled” ect not because it should be recommended

I think we’re not seeing that it was the adults in Luka’s life who were pushing her towards that decision rather than Luka herself asking for surgery. The adults made the choice for her. What pro-trans people are saying is that children should be leading the way not the adults. So it’s the parents fault to listen to everybody except Luka. It goes both ways, we should listen to trans AND cis youth.

i do agree with letting the children grow up to be adults first and then they can decide what they want to do next about it.

Well even lot of adults that transition detransition. If you let or accept your child transitioning or being other gender then it encourages then at eighteen they will just do it.

​@@TheCiddie let's just be clear here. Children shouldn't lead the way in anything. A child's job is to learn, to play and to listen. Not to lead. Letting your kid lead you will not end well for anyone.

@@TheCiddie the doctor literally emotionally manipulated her parents with false talking points about her ending her life had she not gotten surgery.

HAHAHAA so true

YESSS

LMAOO

YES

You gotta want to learn, that heffa doesn’t care.

Thank you

Thank you for sharing a vulnerable story. I don’t know you but am genuinely glad that you found peace and happiness in your body.

Frrrrrr

And that dismissive tone, "Get a second opinion 'honey'"🤨

​@@brt5273yeah that's the problem others people's feelings aren't understandable until line with them

Luka's case clearly differs due to the amount of trauma she suffered, especially with the fact it was bodily. It's honestly so heart-breaking. I think misdiagnosis is maybe not quite correct as she probably felt gender dysphoria due to the danger she felt from being a girl, not from being trans, and the medical process she underwent was so unbelievably wrong and harmful. Had she undergone proper therapy, like you're supposed to while transitioning, somebody would've recognised her trauma and dealt with that before treating her as a trans patient. That being said, people do know themselves better than anyone else but therapy is a necessary step in the transitioning process to know that people aren't conflating a different internal struggle. Luka's case is, honestly, abhorrent and she never should have had to go through that. It was completely the wrong treatment to a mental issue she was going through.

I like how they'll always blame it on an incorrect diagnosis. That dudes youtube is dangerous. Hypocrite especially with how Luka was treated.

Ya agreed but the American system is money hungry they will stop at nothing to destroy the next Gen

Thank you

And I think the world is finally catching up unfortunately so many children in this generation have been sterilized bc of this atrocity

See I appreciate that. It's turned me completely off of accepting anything trans. You give them an inch, they take a mile and try to shove it in your everyday life. I was once a bernie supporter. Use to be.. I appreciate you being honest and real.

@@EddiXP Ignorance is bliss my friend.

Yeah, that was really hypocritical of them.

But in that very same discussion, three of them told Luka they had a much lengthier process to transition, and she didn't listen or care. Just continued saying that because it happened to her, it's the norm. I feel bad for her, I really do. But if only 1 out of 8 of the individuals in this video had a snap if the finger diagnosis and surgery, it does not sound like the norm.

Wow this is interesting. So, I take it it was a gradual process to realize you and your friends aren’t the opposite gender? What made you all realize that being trans wasn’t the one for you all?

Glad you all are okay 😊

@@TheBlkQueen they always knew it, but were doing it because it's trendy.

yeah well thats your fault tbh lol

@@MicukoFelton they said they didn’t know until after two years of doing it.

It makes me have no sympathy for anything the others said as soon as they started dogging her like that, she's so sweet too, it makes me really upset lmao.

It is 100%, they can't follow their own logic when faced with the consequences. They can't tell Luka to her face that it was her fault for making the wrong decision because it wasn't her fault, because they know she was just a child. Yes her parents did mess up, but in the current environment and the emotional blackmail, the fault lies more with the "professionals."

​@@erivida64 not even the professionals, more the activists am politicians. Here in Spain they make it ilegal for medics and physiologist to do anything but affirm people transition.

They are just arguing against everything the opposite side says without the concern of contradictions or being consistent in their beliefs.

Hypocrisy at its best

@@callistoamare you a doctor or?

@@JayseeLyn why would she need to be one?

@@JayseeLynwhat?

I don't think it's gaslighting, i think Luka refuses to take accountability for what happened to her. She is wholly putting the blame of transitioning on the trans community and being misinformed about what dysphoria is. She was a traumatized girl with body dysmorphia. I beleive she was wrongly diagnoses yes, but I think that any resistance that the medical professionals or parents or friends made wouldn't have made a difference. I think her mind was made up at the time and it was a mistake sadly. She deserves to share that story, but it seems more like she doesn't beleive trans people exist, only hurt traumatized people who need therapy and that's just not true. There are people genuinely born in the wrong body, and you don't have to take down one person or group to support another.

I know yet they are such hypocrites! She’s talking about how she went to the clinic one time, and already had an appointment for a surgery or whatever “gender affirming care”. Then they start saying how that’s just one bad doctor. You think there is only one!! The fact that these people can say trust the kids and how they feel, or how do adults know what they want more than a kid because none of us know what we want. That is just horrifying! Yet they see the downfall of that in Luka, and just say maybe you were misdiagnosed. It’s just disgusting and horrible to see such ignorance.

We must stop it for all chilren.

Why do you not have a problem with Cis kids getting them? they've been giving them out since the 80s. And its common. Why just for trans kids?

That is the standard procedure though, they tell you that not five minutes later.

But that's NOT the way it is supposed to be. Transitioning people have to have seen a therapist for a year and then have a Psychiatrist spend time with them as well before they transition. Their doctor jumped the process, telling me Luka comes from $$ (which shouldn't matter). Those are STILL the way it is, Therapy for a year and living as the gender for a year, and then it is STILL a long wait... unless you have $$. The reason why they responded the way she did is because her experience is not only horrifying and wrong, but completely abnormal.

Okay so that has nothing to be mad about with the trans people they were agreeing with her. This entire time they were agreeing with her but ppl in the comments still say the trans people were invalidating her by saying she was misdiagnosed and stuff which she obviously was and literally if you pay attention she says she was misdiagnosed towards the beginning. She had trauma and wanted to get rid of it and the doctors didn't follow precautions and she was medically abused.

Exceptions are not the rule. We don’t make laws for the exception.

​@@kjh4496now do abortion and how raped women need it.

my opinion on this is she was medically abused and there is no but or if after that, not her or her parents fault. she is valid and so are her experiences, she is allowed to live these and i think she deserved a real psychoanalysis.

@@kjh4496 then why are people trying to put transwomen on womens sports teams

@@seeyouallintherapy Rules of sport are not Laws

I'm pissed no one brought THIS up during the conversation

Lol I was thinking the same thing.

This👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

This should have been discussed!

Exactly.

You realise you're using the same arguments that people used against bi people back in the day? I'm bi and trans and it hurts to see a queer person be transphobic.

i dont think thats transphobic,though i dont know much about what "transphobic" is. can you explain how OP was being transphobic?@@Chloethemarxenjoyer

@@ireallydontko Implying that trans people are just confused/gender non conforming. Pretending that it's easy to mistakenly transition. Implying trans people can't have kids. Saying that trans people are sterilising people, which by proxy implies that transition is something that someone else (trans people) decides for you, and that it's not a medically necessary treatment. These are the kind of dog whistles I would expect to see in the comments of a daily wire video.

​@Chloethemarxenjoyer Explain the phobia? An irrational fear! She specifically talked about children. How do you shoehorn that into a phobia!! Bizarre way of thinking

@@bobsmith5441 She implies that trans people are just confused or gender non-conforming. Implies that it is easy to transition by mistake. Implies that trans people can't have kids. Outright that trans people sterilise people. These are all textbook transphobic statements/dog whistles. \

And in the same breath as, 'I know and have always known myself better than anyone' - which suggests that doctors and parents ought to allow this.

They can't admit it might be wrong because they already destroyed their own body.

I think more so they mean that children should be able to make their own decisions with proper education and proper medical examinations from professionals (with a second opinion). Atleast thats wha I took away from their statements.

A million times this 😢

The epitome of having an argument based solely on feelings and subjectivity

Though, not surprising-- they're narcissists

Can’t expect more from those types of people

they’re not belittling them, in fact during their conversation they agreed on a lot more things than were shown Jubilee likes to make it look like they are disagreeing a lot more than they actually are for views

Because they have to justify that a detransitioner is an anomly and a special case and not common at all. If they actually are honest there reality falls apart and they have to deal With 🎉he consequences

They didn't do that Never Not once

Not only are they literally gaslighting luka THEY WERE LITERALLY CONTRADICTING THEMSELVES AT 9:13 "don't go to doctors to transition just because you're feeling a certain way" ISNT THAT WHAT UR FIGHTING FOR? TO HAVE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN BODY AND TO ALLOW MINORS TO HAVE SURGERY????!?!?!??!?

THAT PISSED ME OFF SO MUCH it was so hard to hear how they were responding to Luka since I have a close friend who's been through something similar

Mental gymnastics

That part really triggered me, because they weren't listening!

I encourage you and anyone reading this to read up on abusive doctors and gender affirmative care. What Luka described was abuse.

IM SAYING

They gaslight her throughout the video.

EXACTLY THE GASLIGHTING!!!!

They literally don’t even realize it either. They’re ruining their own case lol.

I was literally going to say this 😅

I think it would be nice if we had more space/discussion for gender nonconforming people. People who are either androgynous or fall into the social gender roles opposite to their expected gender, but not someone who biologically needs to transition and who can be okay being their assigned sex at birth. And I don’t mean that to replace trans people (I’m not trying to say some people don’t need biological transition) but maybe just to show people who are okay being their sex but who need help breaking away from gender roles and stereotypes that aren’t true to them. We get that from gay and trans people, but someone doesn’t actually have to be gay or trans to experience or embrace this.

i'm sorry, i feel so bad for you. things will get better

Womp womp

Huggs

@tobsteroyster6026, virtual hug for you!!!! Hope things get better!

Thank you for sharing your story, you are so valid and I’m sending you so much love. I’m very sorry for your pain, you are beautiful

Or the researchers of these studies.

This comment needs to be upvoted.

oy vey

@@Mizushimeee no one would do that

This would actually be educational

Completely contradicted themselves in the very next breath.

​@@lillianweaver-beck408 a few. So many trans kids are detransitioning

@@lillianweaver-beck408 source plz. And I also want to know when how many years has people been trans. Coz this wide wave of trans is only less then 5 years (I says wide wave not trans ppl in general)

​@@rosettekalombo3072 source plz

@@lillianweaver-beck408 what about all the adults who transition and then regret it. I mean if adults are having trouble... so kids are even better at knowing if they're trans? Make it make sense. It's clear many are making a mistake. We just forget about those people? Or we address this "affirmation only" nonsense now and prevent needles injury or worse. Thats all I'm saying.

I was told I couldn't support my gay friends cause I'm a Cis white straight male. Physically assaulted out of a gay bar I was DDing for my gay friends.

I was told I was just a religious celibate when I told my teacher I was ace. I can't imagine someone who tells more people that they're ace feel.

Asexuals have nothing to do with the LGB community. They are by definition outside of this community.

as someone who’s heteroflexible, I get told that im not part of the community bc I’m not “gay enough” bc I’m mostly attracted to the opposite gender ://

@@iiReinarii Lol, Hetero-Flexible, so you are Bi.

They are not being provided the mental health care first to diagnose that the person has body and not gender. They are just being affirmed and put through on the trans train.

As a transwoman I agree. But that means we need better access to mental healthcare, not dismiss transgender people.

I'm not. It revealed what everyone already knows. This whole thing is bullcrap, and the medical industry is in on it for the $$. These people need medication and therapy, not surgical mutilation.

Yuuuup completely agree. How are you going to invalidate someone who has an actual experience with the topic?

I agree. I kinda felt they dismissed that these cases can happen. There are more greedy doctors out there, and many don't give af. It's a very valid conversation. Plus it's new to most parents. How tf are parents supposed to know

Exactly!! And then they contradict themselves by saying "no one knows me better than me" but blame the parents for letting luka make the choice.

I agree. It was sickening the way they attacked.

L. I did and I'm living my best life

@@arrow7923 You'll start facing complications soon enough don't sweat it 😅😂

@onlyonegod701 nope, I get my labs done routinely and they monitor my testosterone and estradiol concentrations, hemoglobin and hematocrit levels and other things that could lead to complications but I'm actually the healthiest both mentally and physically I've ever been in my life. It's also very rare for there to be complications unless you aren't aware of precautions to take and / or not very educated on the medication, but I have done prior research. Most people don't read the long paper with the meds or get a consultation for it but I did and I know the full impact of my medication u don't know a single thing cuz u aren't my endocrinologist and u definitely aren't educated in gender affirmingcare.

@@arrow7923 You don't affirm a gender, it is assigned at birth and can never be changed. Just because you take hormones doesn't mean the meaning of gender changes. The meaning of gender is the same as the meaning of sex!! They are the same thing.. People are just trying to change the definition to make it seem like men can be women and likewise. And I am being truthful and backed by research, most people who transition and claim it's from gender dysphoria are lying, or are horribly mistaken. because 1-18 per 100k people actually experience gender dysphoria! (that is around around 59,580 people out of the 331 Million can be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and 1.6 Million Americans Identify as trans) That means Most of the Trangender stuff is completely unrelated to gender dysphoria, and gender dysphoria is a mental disorder just like anorexia (both have to do with being uncomfortable with your body) , and you don't tell affirm an anorexic person that they weigh too much. Because that is damaging, just as affirming that someone who is experiencing gender dysphoria that they are in the wrong body and that they need surgery to fix it, is also damaging.. You don't cure a body image disorder by affirming it. This is research! Now based off this research I am making a educated guess, that the reason so many people are identify with trangender is because of the hype surrounding it, and people want to be part of something, and other mental related issues.. You can tell me I am uneducated in gender affirming care, but I know that you cannot identify with a gender, it's impossible. You can't ever be something you're not. So why pretend? Gender isn't a label, gender is another way of refering of male and female instead of the word sex, because sex is usually used in the context of talking about mating.. Gender is not different from sex, but rather a word used to not confuse people of the mating word) Gender is not a construct. Because it cannot be built upon. There is only 2 gender because that is all there has and will ever be to our knowledge. nowhere is there anything besides male or female, and intersex people are given either male or female. and that's it. an intersex person doesn't remain that way. If you read all of this and still don't think this trans stuff is bologna. Watch the documentary: "What is a Women?" on Twitter!

​@@onlyonegod701 It's evil to wish that on another person just because you don't agree

When I was 22, I wanted bigger boobs. At 40, I still want bigger boobs. I want to be a 36C so badly. I have to get my wisdom teeth removed first. My teeth need to take priority before breast enhancement. I want to be able to have cleavage without a very expensive push-up bra. It would be awesome 😊

the reason they didnt give you access to that is because you didnt need it, and if you were given access to that, trans healthcare for minors is almost always reversible and requires therapy

detrans people have more of a platform and are given more of a chance in the literal news than actual trans people. they’re doing just fine.

They are literally brought up constantly as a way to discriminate against Trans people.

Eh what do you think would be the point at which they're brought up enough? Theres no 'enough' just it is what it is. Should's and merit are illusions we put to reassure ourselves but they don't exist.

They aren't brought up on PURPOSE. It would hurt the narrative, and tons of surgeons would lose money.

They probably aren't very easy to find, seeing that detransition rates are so low

It was so strange how they were trying to blame every individual involved in the situation rather than the system. Blaming the parents and medical professionals while at the same time saying that kids should have there own choice

​@@jackoberto01 they did blame the system with Luka. They said they were misdiagnosed. Which they were.

@@Fiorwestcoast My interpretation was that they blamed the individual that misdiagnosed her rather than how the process works

​@@jackoberto01 they blamed the parents and the therapist. The process isn't the issue. Majority of trans people are very very happy. This individual was misdiagnosed by a therapist and their parents should have gotten multiple opinions.

They didn't attack. They simply said the therapist and her parents were in the wrong. Not the Healthcare system. Whenever you're making a life altering decision you always seek multiple opinions.

They just don’t want any opposing parties to make too much sense and go against their agenda

yes kinda, but she isn't trans so she can't speak for trans minors. But I did really agree with her talking points about having safe barriers for children. very complex topic

Yeah, notice the rest of them transitioned after 18+

@@blueberrymuffin7207 Denying detransitioners their experience is genuinely disgusting, there is also no clear long-scope evidence yet to support that gender dysphoria doesn't just end up fully going away with time if teens do not use gender affirming care. Of all the evidence that currently exists, virtually all people that choose to not use gender-affirming care in their teens will stop feeling gender dysphoria. Granted, 80% of these people end up identifying is gay, plenty of research and studies on the topic.

​@@sarimkh Can you cite a source for those statistics?

@@aliemaza5241 Korte 2008, Steensma 2013, Drummond 2008. Just a few of the studies that show this. And mind you, there are no reliable studies to support the opposite, all of them have been heavily criticized in the scientific community.

The hypocrisy in this community is absolutely wild.

Exactly with i though

children knowing themselves does not mean they need surgery it means they need gender affirming care and blockers that's why its Lukas' parents fault cause they let their child get a life changing surgery instead of the proper therapy that she needed

I was just thinking that how can you say children know what they want to your parents are to blame..well when they kids decide to transition..will it be the same blame..” they” are so delusional..let kids be kids and when the children become of age to know the difference let them go through with the transition….ppl want to push this so bad it’s disgusting

@@ericamagnes2186 children in fact, do not know themselves. Adults barely know themselves. Some trans people need surgery, some do not. And blaming her parents for their decision in a scenario that the vast majority of people have 0 understanding and experience in is so out of touch with reality. Blaming an individual's decision in a broken medical system is one of the peak liberal identity ideas that has helped no one but the most privileged members of the queer community. The fact that transphobes will see this as fodder for their views is irrelevant. The reason why we're here is because of the insipid talking points of mainstream LGBT+ culture. Not Luka's parents being ignorants who should've read gender theory.

That part confused me so much.

I'm glad you're feeling well :) My opinion is that obviously this is a complex issue with its nuances, but something we should all agree on is that no child should suffer any irreversible changes, since that is a very big decision that they should wait until adulthood to make, so puberty blockers are okay (if well used) but not surgery.

That bit really confused me lol

i think they said that bc Luka shared that the therapist made them believe she was trans without actually digging deeper.

well lukas situation is different she was talking about being abused.

i'm pretty sure the first statement was in reference to allowing children to get puberty blockers in order to have "bodily autonomy" over their puberty. hormone blockers, being reversible, are not as serious as a permanent gender reassignment surgery, speaking generally. in Luka's case, the people involved in her transition should have been better educated and Luka deserved better, but questioning children should be able to explore things and speak with therapists and have hormone blockers and other non-permanent changes with the approval of their guardians if it comes down to it. so both can be true.

No seriously like that was a total oxymoron

So easy just to pretend desistors and detransitioners "were never really trans" or didn't have "proper gender dysphoria" it risks their whole reality to be open minded about it.

She's a narcissist

“You know yourself better than anyone! Even better than your parents know you!” Two seconds later to someone she met 5mins prior: “you’re not XYZ, you’re wrong about yourself” 😅 crazy to me she didn’t even realize the irony in her statement

someone who is not trans and perceives themself as the gender they were assigned at birth does not experience gender dysphoria. it’s as simple as that.

now that they have medically changed their bodies they could be seen as having gender dysphoria as they are experiencing 1/10th of what trans people feel but before making those changes no it is clear she was misdiagnosed. no cis person truly feels gender dysphoria

That’s what happens when you know you’re wrong and care more about your own feelings than facts

She came off as super ignorant and unprepared for this debate. Going off of her feelings, not facts. Feelings are not facts.

You couldn't decide what to eat for dinner if allowed to as a child? 🤨

​@@amazinggrapes3045to this day I can't even choose what to eat even if I learned how to cook so..

This comment needs more upvotes, their arguments lost all credibility once they said that.

🎯 This was the contradiction that no one in the discussion caught.

@@jadesmith7983 umm no

Exactly! Her parents listened to what she felt and then she ended up dissatisfied and de transitioned.

Well not taking it out of context. The fault is on parents due to not following up with the therapy to dive deeper into the topic was their fault. Their child was already in therapy for something else and then unloaded this feeling onto them and from there they were directed to go to another type of therapist for the transitional aspect. In between the original therapist and the transition therapist is where the parents should have sought help on the topic rather than just go by a feeling their child brought up in a session in which the therapist had no background. The point is transition does work for most young people who know. Should they be able to start a process sure and therapy and research is part of that process.

But It would be a misdiagnosis if she’s not actually trans, wouldn’t it? Unless she’s talking about gender dysphoria /now/ as a result of detransitioning after having a double mastectomy, and in that case, the only treatment option would still be exactly what the transitioners claimed; gender affirming care. She just didn’t clarify whether or not her diagnosis was obtained before or after she detransitioned, so I couldn’t expect them to know otherwise.

​@MadsHonk how can it be a misdiagnosis when all the people of the medical community have to go off is the patients own feelings there is no tests to ensure someone is experiencing gender dysphoria this is exactly the reason why I feel any type of medical intervention for kids is very wrong, even puberty blockers, it's known now that puberty blockers arnt reversible like everyone used to claim

A bunch of dudes ganging up on this poor woman. That's the Patriarchy for you.

@@SleeperInTravel I’ve seen you comment this like three other times. You don’t feel bad for her, you’re just looking for validation of your own transphobia.

​@@anya8575is he wrong tho? 😂

No

i mean this is a debate lol did you expect the opposite side to just be quiet after that just because it’s sad

Facts.

“I’m sorry for you but..” is actually very invalidating. So much so that I believe it’s intentional.

I'm sorry to hear you believe that, but you're wrong.

Luka isn’t trans, they are a detransitioner. So yes she was misdiagnosed bc she is not trans. And her parents, rather than listen to Luka, were listening to the adults. We need to listen to children, whether they are cis or trans. If her parents pushed her to transition that IS their fault.

@@TheCiddie and the same people are fighting to allow minors to be surgically operated upon the onset of gender dysphoria on kids. would be better to just let kids be kids and allow them to make the decision once they reach adulthood.

​@@TheCiddie Kids don't know what they are doing! You don't let them lead you, their job is to learn. You cannot self diagnose yourself to be certain way just because you feel like it, cause feelings are changing everyday. As a kid you believe santa clause exist, but that doesnt make it true is it. Kids cant even differentiate real world and fantasy.

​@Unique Her parents WERE listening to her, that's why she transitioned in the first place. What are you on about?

@@drensky777 Most of the people in the video said minors shouldn't be getting surgically operated on sooooo

Sadly mirrors a large chunk of the trans movement.

I don’t think any of them came at Luka in an angry way. If anything they were just defensive which makes sense considering trans people are attacked across the country.

​@@minniemystic7185 but luka never did anything barely rude or condescending to them, so why not being more empathetic?

@@tenscar6131 In my opinion Luka was very condescending and kept trying to generalize the entire issue by making it seem like her experience was normal. What the mental health "professionals" did to her is not what a normal gender affirming treatment process looks like, it's severe misconduct and probably illegal. It shows that the question whether GAT should be banned is not the issue, but rather that we should have stricter control and guideline enforcement in the medical industry. But she didn't even consider any of this, instead she deliberately tried to paint all medical practicioners in a bad light. The ironic thing is that she keeps saying how her trauma made her believe things that weren't true but doesn't realize that it's happening again: her trauma of being misdiagnosed made her believe that this is what ALL trans people experience even though she is a part of only 0.4% of all trans people who detransitioned because they felt that they were actually the gender that they were born as (Source: Hildebrand-Chupp, Rowan. (2020). More than ‘canaries in the gender coal mine’: A transfeminist approach to research on detransition. The Sociological Review. 68. 800-816. 10.1177/0038026120934694.).

@@paracosm-cc it’s actually disgustingly common throughout our healthcare system. They are vile and they are leaches. Do you know how much money they make from all of this? They receive anywhere between $200,000 to $300,000 for each client who transitions. This price includes surgery’s, medicines, therapists, & more. FOR ONE PERSON! It’s all about the money. It is ALWAYS about the money. These people do not want to help you and so yes. MOST of these “Doctors” are going to give you an easy pass bc it is an easy buck

Because... she was??? tf?

​@@CantooniShe said herself multiple times that she experiences gender dysmorphia and still does even after de-transitioning. It was stated by one of the other people that "nobody knows you more than yourself" and to invalidate that by saying she was just misdiagnosed kind of defeats the purpose of that statement in my opinion.

​@@ecw613 so she had mild gender dysphoria, or her dysphoria was probably causes by previous traumas SO her transition wasn't needed. She needed therapy first (at least 1 or 2 years).

She said herself that her dysphoria comes FROM trauma and that it wasn't discussed first or treated at all, and she immediately got approved for surgery without going through all the NECESSARY psychological procedures first, not only was she in some way misdiagnosed, but she was mistreated and in some degree a victim of malpractice because the wrong procedures and treatment were applied to her when she didn't needed them. She should have had plenty of therapy to actually have enough time to properly talk about her situation to THEN decide if surgery was the actual best option, you don't just go to any doctor and get a gender reaffirming surgery like it's freshly baked bread, there's a whole process that SHOULD go first, specially for minors, that she didn't go through. This is not trans people's fault, this is not Luka's fault, this is not the other people in the room's fault, it's the doctor's fault, and the issue with Luka here is that she explains her experience as a way to create a discussion of "I am the reason why kids transitioning is wrong" when in reality what happened to her should NEVER happen to anyone because it's a crime.

I gasped! Like I was so shocked they literally contradicted themselves

I agree

I totally empathize with her story, but please keep in mind hers is really an edge case. Trans people are already only 1% of the population, and detrans people are less than 1% of those 1%. While it is still important to listen and have empathy for her, we shouldn’t base our entire understanding of trans ppl on her experience, not all trans ppl only have dysphoria because of trauma, and her case is very unique.

​@Davie023 just another person trying to downplay her story. Nobody said her experience was the only one, but that these grey can be dangerous.

luka seems to have a horrible understanding of gender identity and it seems they tie their identity to their trauma. dont do that.

@@jacobwhite208 haha and your understanding of gender identity is better? Tell me

If her psychologist told her that she should transition after one session, then for sure her therapist was wrong, she probably could sue them for malpractice

@@Goingby20s therapists must affirm or loose their license. Telling her she should transition is literally what he is forced to do.

@@brettpid6416 literally most states today still allow conversion therapy, no therapist is obliged to tell a pacient they're transgender, there is no such rule or law, and that's not even what gender affirming therapy is

​@@brettpid6416 Affirmation isn't how you're interpreting it here. When someone comes to a therapist with an issue concerning their gender identity, therapist affirms it and then comes extensive evaluation of the reasons why a person thinks so. During that evaluation therapist must also check for other conditions. All of it takes several sessions. That's how it usually works. If someone diagnosed a person, minor or adult after a single session - I don't think they're qualified to provide these services.

not pure emotion they all had their takes--hey also brought up religion thought that was worth mentioning which is rather emotionally driven

I commented but I'll add it in reply to you too because I totally agree, off the bat Samantha came off as ignorant. Her first statement , " I have 10 studies!" ... Loud and full of gas. When someone is being loud they're usually fking WRONG. Luca embarrassed her , as she should, in the best and most classy way possible.

i don't understand how this is ironic?? it makes complete sense if you think about it. her parents and therapists didn't give her the time and freedom to fully evaluate everything about herself before shoving "quick fixes" at her. if her parents backed off and gave her more therapeutic options she would have had the opportunity to understand herself better and avoid the horrible stuff she went through. please take some time to think about and evaluate what you say before jumping to conclusions based on preconceived notions you have.

I’m so glad you said this. I was like…. Why is this not the top comment. Can I get a “hypocrite”

@@shelbymarsh4945 The trans group specifically stated that minors should not be making PERMANENT body-altering decisions, like surgery, but should be able to have autonomy when it comes exploring with reversible transition options, like hormones. Maybe you should rewatch the video because you obviously missed pretty crucial aspects of the discussion. I am sure they agree that no child should be getting a double mastectomy before even going on hormones to explore their true identity. It's an unfortunate case and the majority of them did in fact acknowledge that.

@@carleydegruchy7964but as we're starting to find out, hormones (and puberty blockers) are not reversible. Gender is a made-up social construct that's literally just clothes and behaviour and varies from region to region, so why are we permanently messing around with the natural development of people's bodies when you can just accept that you like to dress however you want & then go on cross-sex hormones/get surgeries as a body mod if you'd really like to when you're an adult?

The extent to which hormones are reversible is not solidified scientifically, in fact there is very little long term research on trans individuals. Most studies are flawed and wouldn't pass AT ALL for any other disease or mental health condition outside of gender dysphoria. While the field is difficult to study, the way they have treated results is... disappointing at best. A child needs information to form a basis for an opinion from somewhere. Parents, media, professionals, all can influence a decision. Giving a child "space" simply means allowing OTHER forms of influence to take full control. As a society, we have determined that minors DO NOT have the autonomy to make decisions for themselves. Whether this be a tattoo, marriage, sex in some regions, etc. etc. We have decided a woman CANNOT get a breast augmentation prior to 18 even if they have CRIPPLING body dysmorphia. Yet we allow those under 16 to undergo permanant treatments that have no long term studies to back their efficacy? Pretty insane to me. @@carleydegruchy7964

Yeah, I’m trans, and one thing that has always disturbed me is how rudely people treat detransitioners. There are definitely really rude detransitioners - I’ve heard many - but I forgive them because they are clearly going through a lot. Mind you, Luka isn’t one of the rude ones. I personally think that trans people are just rude to detransitioners because simply speaking about their own experience, to them, is challenging their experience, it’s invalidating them. If someone JUST says their story, never taking a dig at yours, why should you take a dig at theirs?

Because Samantha is a narcissist.

@@user-sf9gs2pg1b Yep which is abusive coming from trans like... a person that detransitioned literally was trans like... that can happen to anyone thats trans so maybe they should have a bit more empathy / sympathy sheesh

​@@ShadowdaleAno she's not

@@gabeyortiz2018Samantha very obviously has personal issues that are being projected into others.

this.

nobody is doing that...

​@@prudenceneverpays watch at around the 8min-10min mark and come back and tell us otherwise.

​@@prudenceneverpays stop the cap.

@@alienlover7556 What they were doing is saying that they feel horrible about what Luka was going through, but that Luka's situation isn't what should be happening. They all believe that you should be going to many appointments before making that decision. They said that Luka's story was a great example of why this needs to be talked about more. They believe it should be open to minors as long as they go through a long period of therapy and psychoanalysis before this decision.

I hope one day she stops using her unheard of experience to argue against transition, that's ridiculous.

Listen, what happened to Luka was horrible. It really is; it's a situation caused by years of abuse and medical negligence. However, that does not mean that one story negates the research/evidence that gender-affirming care works WHEN USED CORRECTLY. It would be like saying marriage shouldn't be allowed because you experienced domestic abuse.

thats how all trans people feel without transition lol

kids arent supposed to get SURGERIES..... this is something im sure the trans community doesnt support. @@misanthrophex

@@misanthrophex Its not a crime against humanity. All people on earth make mistakes that they have to life with. The overall regret rate for elective surgeries is way higher than the regret rate for medical transition. If you dont believe me feel free to look it up: the regret rate for transition is around 1-3%.

Exactly and thats what the problem is!

Exactly

Luka can’t prioritize her own experinece over the majority of trans kids transitioning helps. This kind of debate should be based on facts and data, not personal experiences.

​@@soph1645People transitioning is based on THEIR FEELINGS.

@@soph1645 Well the facts are you can't change your gender/sex. You can't change race, eye color, hair color, or height either. Best you can do is mask it.

Luka did not prioritize her own experience. She simply used that as an example to why people need to set boundaries to letting children explore the possibilities without going through surgery as such a young age! Seriously not hard to set boundaries.

Samantha is a 100% narcissist. I saw her video and that's how I made my opinion

There are detrans ppl out there who do sue, it can be difficult tho because of the time limits that different states and insurances have i think

It's the legislators fault for legalising transitioning for kids

@@DashDa5h you mean transitioning?

Blame is irrelevant. Though Luka is spot on with the studies.

Parents definitely are to blame

Amen

"Kids should be able to make decisions about their own anatomy" I agree with this! Kids work to pay the bills, taxes, to provide themselves and their family with food, clothes, water, healthcare, sometimes pay to send them to private school, a roof to live under, and electronic devices.....oh wait I'm thinking of the parents. If parents are legally responsible for their children's mistakes (since minors cannot be sued), they absolutely have a say in what goes on with their children.

​@@slayer5922 their job is to literally protect the child from things like this. Children can be sold dreams without understanding the truth of the world. These people sell those dreams to the weak and then abandon them when reality sets in.

Exactly ! I’m at this point in the video and I’m astounded. The idiocy and complete lack of self awareness is insane. I don’t know if I can even continue with these people gaslighting Luka like that.

It's really the doctors fault. There needs to be a standard for diagnosing gender dysphoria. Seems like many detransitioners only learn what gender dysphoria really is after they transition and realise they were never actually trans.

It is very much her parents and her doctors' fault for not getting more than one opinion. That goes for any medical service. Should we ban braces just because some orthodontists recommend them to people with jaw deformities who'll suffer from them? Or should people go get second opinions before anything is done. Luca's parents literally let her get her tiddies snipped after ONE session with a therapist. That's on them.

They were saying that that shouldn't have happened to her, and that it was wrong of the doctors and parents to allow that, how is that invalidating her or gaslighting her?

@@aliu292 when they said that her diagnoses of gender dysmorphia was wrong

@@kysbred287 Yes and she agreed, the diagnoses was what made her transition.

Wow. Woooooow how hypocritical of them. That's insane. This really does show how quickly they turn their backs on one another. That's horrible.

@@aliu292 doesn’t mean the diagnosis is wrong lol

You missed the entire point. Looking for multiple opinions on life changing decisions is kinda common sense. Puberty blockers are for teens. So when they hit 16 they get to make the decision with a therapist if they are ready to start hrt. Jumping into it with only one opinion is really the parents fault. There is studies proving 98% of teens start hrt after puberty blockers and transition into adulthood happily. Luka is blanketing the entire medical field because of one therapist and their parents not doing research.

@@Fiorwestcoast why would you need second opinions when the child knows best?

@@minnamandariini4843 children know when they are trans. However you always get a second opinion. 98% of children transition into adulthood happily.

@@Fiorwestcoast there are children out there that just aren’t sure. What about them? Just let them wait until 18 to do anything permanent.

@@Fiorwestcoast where did you get 98% from ?

absolutely

yes. truthfully told what Luka said at 1:43 should the end of it. it was very eloquently presented and tbh open and shut case. many of these kids question their gender, that's normal. but there are very real, permanent results from children transitioning before puberty, and as Luka said, many of these kids grow up to be a gay/gnc adult. Just let them/yourself grow up and figure what you want. honestly the trans and detrans movement are part of the same fight. somone else commented "being against children undergoing permanent gender transition does NOT make you anti-trans." and that's important to understand. we ARE for the ability for people to transition and figure out their presentation and self image the way they want, but regulations do need to be in place for kids who are questioning their gender, for their mental AND physical well being.

It's one thing to have the more honest and reasonable opinion but she didn't really seem interested in defending herself whenever the others gaslighted her. Sticking to your guns doesn't mean much if you are not a marksman.

Luka ruined this whole debate

@@flightranchu3486 You mean won.

Yes! Thank you.

I hate how they jumped down her throat and disregarded her experience. I applaud her courage for speaking about it.

Luka we love your vulnerability and hope you feel empowered & loved.

I cried within the first prompt!!

Listen, what happened to Luka was horrible. It really is; it's a situation caused by years of abuse and medical negligence. However, that does not mean that one story negates the research/evidence that gender-affirming care works WHEN USED CORRECTLY. It would be like saying marriage shouldn't be allowed because you experienced domestic abuse.

It really is amazing how a bit of cinematography does wonders for someone's palpability. It's scary how sad violin music convinced so many of you to feel bad for this person

@@AcetylCoA605 there will be people who regret it no matter how much therapy they go thru before transitioning and there will be people genuinely happy that they did transition.. everyone won’t have the same experience. That’s the first thing everyone has to understand.

Exactly

One example why kids shouldn’t decide everything for themselves. If even adults cant make up their minds, how do you expect kids to decide?

That bit ch was absolutely discuting

They shouldn't have had a "gender affirming" surgery if they weren't transgender and didn't need it, they should've gotten more therapy and talk to more doctors before having a "gender affirming" surgery that would change there life it's common sense

It's almost like we respect the roles of the parents while also valuing the child's sense of self crazy

🔥, I like that one. "A minor cannot have sex with an adult." I just realized the truth one month ago, they are conforming children to believe that it's cool to sterilize themselves. 100- makes no sense Is this even reality. 50 children a day are sent to sterilization affirming cares across the US. And I emailed America's red cross concerned of blood transfusions, and indeed, they are using the donations of parents to sterilize their children.

Honestly i would have walked out.

Bruhhh the “HONEY” that Arisce threw at her came off as so aggressive… Luka is so strong

10000%

When did they gaslight her?

@@lolawrenn8926it’s a made up word for people they disagree with

Luka perfectly exposed the hypocrisy of the trans community and how their unrealistic demands are a threat to the health and well being of children

Lmao ok sure

@@bareq99Be delusional if you wish.

@@iris7301 don't worry I have my med school studies to affirm me with the facts 👍

@@bareq99where your dad

What video did you watch? The trans group dismissed the other sides very valid points arguing that somehow children should be able to make major life changing decisions alone.

@@samjohnson7075 i said meeting in the middle, these are two groups on extreme sides of a spectrum. Also, apologizing for someone’s experience is the exact opposite of invalidating. Everyone knows personal data is not as strong as quantitative data.

Luke is doing the same thing to them but she's got that victim card so played out even she can't see past it anymore.

Protecting the narrative is more important than listening to someone who's experienced things debunking it. It's TOTALLY an ideology, damn near a cult.

they do not wanna hear the truth, they rather deny reality. Luka is a beautiful and intelligent woman.

@@Rhiorrha If its a cult, then who's the cult leader?

just because luka was soft spoken it doesn't mean the others were wrong for disagreeing with her.

Satan…Hollywood…Social Media

That part threw me off too. It made me think of Jazz because she is suffering thanks to her parents.

The arguements were just not consistent. "You can't jump into these decisions...because you're feeling a certain way." Isn't that what you're arguing for?

excatly!! the hypocrisy in this video is ridiculous

They dont think

Trans have always said that children should have the bodily autonomy to use puberty blockers and always said that children shouldn’t have surgeries until 18. Surgery is where the line was drawn because it’s irreversible and puberty blocker is reversible. It’s very clear to me. What are you confused about?

They were also trying to tell her the facts of her situation, and that the unfortunaties that happened to her needs to be prevented, but you can't just cut off trans from the care they need because it happened to one person out of thousands. Besides, three others confirmed they had to go through years of therapy and social transition **as adults** before they could get treatment. From the points shown, Luka is not the norm, she's an outlier. An outlier we need to prevent, while still allowing the norm to continue.

Ik I used to watch her when I listened to what she had to say here I was like… whole different person..

not in the very end though

@@Pawzleyy She's awful and she's always been awful. She's been pushing literally tens of thousands of people into transitioning using her youtube channel. People have had their lives ruined now, irreparably. The fact that you were watching her and thought she was great, says a lot about how easily misled you are as a person. You should definitely be more careful in your life. The moment I first saw one of her videos I knew she was bad

He* lol

​@@Pawzleyy seems like the true person came out 😔😔😔 its really sad when someone you watched ends up being a mean person

It really shocked me how much they attacked her in the first (or second i can’t remember) question. I appreciate her composure. They were all retaliating against her but i can tell she is the most intelligent person out of this group to speak on the subject as she has had it happen to her.

Whos a victim?

exactly

They blamed the doctors and the parents for both making wrong decisions that no doubt contributed to what happened to Luka. No one is blaming Luke for what happened.

Luke was woman at the beginning? I mean the body