Should Norris Have Been Selfish In Hungary? 

Telling a driver to slow down and let a teammate overtake for a win was an awful order in this situation.

@@F1fan56What was awful was not following usual protocol and letting Oscar pit first.

@@Squonk0608- they were guarding against Ham.

Piastri didn't earn 1st place, he was slower and it was a pity win for him.

@@teekay_1In what way didn’t he earn it? Fabulous move in the first corner, controlled the race and then got undercut.

Right?! To the point of distraction!🏁🙄

Honestly, no they didn't. The strategy was sound. Protect the 1-2. The only factor they didn't expect, was Norris being silly about it. If Norris just rolls with it, it's a perfect strat. I think, they didn't even consider that they couldn't trust him.

@@absurdist5134 how many multiple world championship drivers have you seen that happily give up 1st place? You think Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen are 'silly'? None of them would have inverted positions like Norris did. The team should have favoured the driver that has the best chance of being world champion or never have put Norris in that position in the first place. But they did. And Norris rightly held on to the win and did what all those esteemed names before him did. Until he didn't. Let's see how that works out for him in the long run.

I agree, Maclaren should've been clear & precise on their calls, letting both drivers know exactly what they were doing & wat was expected of them, full stop...the onus was never on the driver's

​@@absurdist5134pit Pastries first= he wins, no worries. I agree with all punters saying the complicated things

​@@absurdist5134Multi 21.

Totaly agree! You’ve got it spot on!

What rubbish. Drivers are paid employees and nothing more. They do as they are told until they put money back into the team to get them in the position they are in. As an employee you don’t follow the team rules there are consequences. He drives for me, he sits out the next race at home like the little boy he is. This is the sort of dissent that will come back way harder than points. The next thing we see are team mates crashing, pit instructions ignored. Discipline and respect are required by these glorified, moaning complaining drama queens.

Spot on.

@@HSE2inc Is that so? Then why do teams not hire two monkeys to drive those cars? Discipline and respect goes both ways. Those guys are not there for the money, so they are not paid employees. As a matter of fact: every company that treads their personal as paid property will never in a million years will reach anything epic.

Andrea Stella should have stepped in much sooner with clear directive. ending in "then we (as team McLaren ) will discuss it after the race. That would have been better instead of the radio messages that I believe just made ut look even worse for McLaren...just my thoughts.

If they do that, and there's a hiccup with Norris' pit, they lose the 1-2. That makes no sense for a team to risk.

​@@absurdist5134 Lewis' pace was in another postal code. Them trying to cover him and therefore servicing Lando first was an overreaction.

​@@absurdist5134This is cope, Lewis was nowhere.

@@Don-Royall You can just look this up, Lewis was down to an about 6 second gap (presuming a clean pit stop for Norris) and gaining over a second a lap. So McLaren DID have to react, fairly soon, and their window for a mistake even when they did pit was something like 4 seconds. That's not a lot.

@@absurdist5134 Lewis second stint waa nowhere though. I was shocked the first few laps after the hard change he was the fastest man on track then just bail, maybe he wanted to mess with Max.

It wasn't bizarre at all. It's to protect the 1-2. That's a good idea. The only thing they didn't realise is that Norris would do that. They, wrongly it turns out, trusted him to be cool.

McLaren need to wake up and right now he’s #1. Leads races 9/4, leads quali 10/3, leads fastest lap 8/4 and is 40 points ahead. Would have been 47 if they’d left the order after the stops. The stats prove that so far this year he’s #1 and both of them aren’t going to catch Max. Still unlikely anyone will but best chance is Lando so the team should have favored him if they are serious about winning the championship. Oscar is doing great but he’s statistically #2 and we don’t want teams making first corner agreements.

@@davidLPST-100% right.

Oscar knows it was a gift.

Was thinking maybe Piastri should have refused the overtake and 'tainted' victory and let Norris win. I am sure Oscar is going to win a clean one soon enough...

@@eleghari exactly.

Absolutely should happen

@@mickmckpng3153 amen

Mark Webber was in London supporting Mitch Evans at the Formula E final race. Mark is Mitch’s manager as well. Mind you, the previous weekend, he was having good old time socialising with Christian Horner at the Goodwood Festival of Speed.

@@ancient1946- but definitely a number 2. And I was no big fan of Vet.

Piastri wouldn't have cared, and neither would Mark. They know what is ahead and there's no bitching coming from them. Vettel looked like a complete knob that day, and Webber called him out.

That would look cynical..might as well keep the position

@@micahkiyimba8641why. They were free to race. Lando should have given it back right away and passed him via DRS. Lando screwed up

THIS. There was comparatively little risk for Lando; Lewis was something like 7 seconds or more behind Oscar when he came out of the pits. I assumed when it happened that Lando would lift on the start/finish straight of the next lap, allowing Oscar to easily close the 1.5 sec between them, then race him til the end. Cards on the table I’m an Aussie and a massive Piastri fan, but if Lando had given the place back immediately and win after racing to the end, I would have been totally ok with that (I’m also a McLaren fan so a 1/2 would be awesome regardless). It feels like Lando was thinking a few things at once: I need to show the team I am the no. 1 driver; I’ve missed out on a few P1’s I really should have had recently so I deserve this; and it makes sense as P2 in the championship that I should take maximum points here. As it played out, the whole thing was untidy, embarrassing for McLaren, and damaged Lando’s nice guy/good sportsman image with myself and no doubt other fans as well. Lucky for me I’m a well-adjusted adult, so I don’t now “hate” Lando or anything so stupid. I just wish the whole thing had been a bit more professionally handled.

@@JM87Fly I’m an F1 fan ultimately… that said, I am English and do profess to be a Lewis fan (although, that said, not sure I can be a Lewis fan AND a Ferrari supporter at the same time… so, THATs gonna be interesting). I can see the nuance in the choice Lando was given so there’s no love lost there either way. But, he could have dealt with it better if you looked at the instructions issued throughout the race as a whole.

Just because they were free to race earlier in the race, doesn’t mean they were going to be free to race at the end. After all they never told Oscar he was free to fight lando at the end, they told him “once you catch lando we will swap”. McLaren messed up and gave lando the winning strategy. They came over the radio and begged lando to give up the position. Neither driver did anything wrong today. The team did both drivers dirty. What should have been a great day for McLaren, is now tarnished. Made lando look like the bad guy, and made Oscar first victory a “gift”.

He was told he could race UNTIL around the 40s, meaning the last pit stop. The last stint was never meant to be a free-for-all.

I thought the same thing, unless they have a standing rule that they only race until the last pit stop. Who knows

Lando isn’t going to come close to winning the championship. Verstappen is up by 2 races in points.

It was a very bad decision

@@LilSebastian_well Oscar certainly won’t challenge max , so the decision didn’t make any sense.

@@LilSebastian_ The future is of course unknown. Or are you claiming to be a time traveller?! Penalties, unreliability etc....

Because Lando didn't earn them. He failed at the start of the race, AGAIN, and Oscar drove away with it. Lando never sniffed DRS range and Oscar was more than +2-4 secs for most of the race. In almost all situations, the race leader gets preferential treatment (aka Plan A) and in this case Mclaren changed this up to ensure the 1-2 finish. Lando was ONLY in the position to win the race because of that decision. He pushed on his outlaps while Mclaren made Oscar stay out an extra lap to keep the two from being on top of each other after Oscar's stop. While Oscar was being told that they'd swap back positions, Lando was driving with his pants on fire. Had Mclaren handled this by pitting Oscar first, Lando would have been a distant second.

EXACTLY!

PW has Max duvet set on his bed for sure 😂

@@beefsuprem0241 🤪

Windsor suggesting that Oscar had no right to that first corner apex, was the most ridiculous take I’ve seen on this whole thing. Needs to have a good hard look at himself.

@@MechanicalSculptor Peter was as reasonable as Max 😜

The problem is the STEWARDS and FIA NEVER see anything Max does wrong. Whenever there is an incident pundits just like Nark akwzys say the same thing then when the Stewards do the usual and use clever trickery wording to make the driver Max has caused the collision with seem 50/50 responsible...THE SAME HAPPENED WITH LANDO IN AUSTRIA. It so sad to watch because sll that the STEWARDS and FIA are doing is giving Max a license to do what he wants and that is dangerous. Since 2021 Max was driving desperately in close battle and it was ignored as hard racing rb got the cost cap advantage from 2022 and Max was lauded for being able to literally race no his car was that fast which 2023 proved. Now through a number of factors MAx is back in the real world of having to compete with one of the few men that can put him in his place on track (fact) and here we are again seeing the same old tactics and disrespectful language which again is being side stepped instead of being called out even tho impressionable youngsters will be watching because most of the pundits...liberty media and FIA see Max as their cash cow. 7 race winners so far this season in what F1 fans want to see and im all for that cause the best driver in competative cars deserve a FAIR chance to win if they can deliver when it counts on track...FAIRLY. I predict if that rb stays the same Max will only get worse im afraid...the sad thing is I fear that the stewards and FIA will maintain the "look the other way" rule book for Mr Verstappen.

Well of course Max expects exactly that, he is MAX.

By giving it up Norris might have the support from Piastri for the driver's title fight. I hope Norris made a good choice.

he should have let him pass and then overtaken him right after.

And if Piastri was given priority for the pitstops then Lando would have been 6+ seconds behind so what's your point? Lando only and I stress only had the opportunity because the team let him undercut Piastri. So how on earth would you say Lando earned it and Oscar didn't.

Lewis was catching both McLarens. Had Lando have his pit stop 2 laps later, he would have joined the track behind HAM. The team was right in its decision.

But Lando didn't "win the race". If the team plays it straight, they pit Piastri first and Norris was never going to pass him, just like he couldn't in the early stage of the race. Further more, that would ALSO put Norris at risk of losing 2nd as well.

er no.

@@absurdist5134

@@absurdist5134 Lando was clearly faster in the last stint and Oscar was far slower so I suspect he would have been able to pass Oscar

Yup eejit. Everyone should immediately leave the track to allow the RBR torpedo Kid thru😂

Exactly. Max did nothing wrong what so ever. As the stewards confirmed he braked in exactly the same place as previous laps. And through sheer genius had much more speed that time, despite his DRS flap being open. Turning into a corner ahead of Max and only leaving a couple of car widths of room on the inside, then changing his line to try and steer away from Max at the last moment... that's just dirty driving isn't it.

​@@ibex485Boy you sure are slow. The OP was being sarcastic DOH!!🙄.

@@ibex485 you’re funny, in a very myopic way🤦‍♂️

@@Astronurd Er... so am , DOH! Did you really think leaving space and steering away from the incoming divebomb is dirty driving? Or that braking in the same place as usual despite carrying more speed is the correct way to drive?

Fully agree. It’s what Marc does so well.

@@JB-xd9dr Wow, such a witty name for the internet! I remember hearing it once, many years ago. I trhink it was my grandpa using it. Anyway, we all thought it was such a cool 1990s phrase.

Agreed

Or Verstappen...

I fully agree.... This is not how Norris will ever become a World Champion if he behaves like this.... Look at all past world champions... at some point they were all selfish and did everything to win! Verstappen, Hamilton, even Vettel with the multi-21 team orders... And yes Shumi and Senna also, you have to be selfish and be willing to do anything to win if you are to become a world champion.

Well, Hamilton did yield to Bottas. You make your own history, don't try to be anyone else.

And yet, Hamilton has done this. - Do what’s right.

There was no way McLaren would have allowed them to duke it out in the end. This is MCLAREN we're talking about. Mc-let's-throw-away-races-for-both-drivers-Laren would've done the safest thing and told Lando to not push.

Lewis is at another level. A real English gentleman attitude.

@@boyzinpain6814 Interestingly, Oscar seems to have a better relationship with Lewis than Lando does.

Probably not a coincidence. Newey would have been involved not only in design, but also in implementation of design on a week to week basis. No Newey, no optimisation.

Yes, but Christian Horner thinks Newy is irrelevant 😂

all the problems with christians investigation and Jos and christians beef plus other things are why newey leaving i think all the instability this is causing in the team is why there failing now not so much neweys departure

Yes mate it seem that no Newey no performance for Redbull

@@InterestedAmerican almost like he flipped a switch.

Not Merc, Mclaren. Still early for me :)

Forgot about that incident....then again it's a while ago !

With respect, you are incorrect. Contact patch changes dramatically as steering angle changes on an F1 car.

@Marc Priestley F1 Elvis Agree, looks purpose built. Can't help noticing the center joint and seating arrangement. Not a sauna. 😜

Proven by Lewis being 12 seconds behind after being hit by Max.. and a damaged car...

You should have paid attantion to the tires when they came in at the end Oscar's tires where shredded and Ham and Lando's looked much better. If Lando's RE would not have told him lies about his tires, talked thourgh breaking zones and than emotionally manipulated him Lando would have made the 6 sec gap into a 10 sec easy.....

Imagine if Lando loses by 1-6 points by the end of the season.

lol delusional 🤡

Bigger problem would be Joss wanting rid of Toto. Would make for an interesting power dynamic there as it's clear because of the set up Totos not going anywhere.

He puts up with Ham's attitude, so clearly he has a bottomless well of patience

​@chris9650 won't be long until Toto gets accused of an affair with a colleague etc. All construde by Jos.

@@quigglyz Dude, I’m no fan of LH, but nobody throws a tantrum like Max. Maybe he’s different when in the car as opposed to in the garage or in the office.

⁠What attitude?

So please ask all of Lando's minions to stop crying that Lando was faster after the stops. Sure he was, but Oscar was expecting Lando to cede the position, not have to race for it. So in his mind he was just supposed to manage the pace to the end with no real threat from Lewis/Max. If either driver bins it because they were racing each other, then Mclaren goes from +27 to +9 constructor points to RBR.

I suppose that’s the point. Lando was told AFTER the stop. Had he been told before I don’t think he would have came in to box.

@@stephaniecampbell6119 I agree that I think he would say no and then force the team to pit Oscar first. But it should have been communicated properly then both drivers would have been on the same page. Oscar would have known that it was race on and not been in manage mode while Lando was pushing.

@@romykraus5813 yep, and being soundly beaten by Lando in all areas. Google their head to head this year.

He talks like robot cucumber with voice of my grandma. 😅

If I was Lando I would have said you are fired race engineer! I am star of this team you are nobody and onlhy working because I say so.

Exactly. They couldn't keep Piastri from his maiden win all season when he would have had multiple opportunities. You just can't do that! By all means now they can favour Lando more easily.

Said this before I heard you say the same 😁😁😁

​@@danthompson1953Did you just reply to yourself?

@@danthompson1953 then the team will suffer and piastri won't assist lando henceforth and will probably win more than lando, It looks like piastri is just warning up

​@@smokeybirdmanWho is in a better position to challenge Max? This sport is brutal, you stick with one challenger and support him, the other driver should understand the role of the number two driver. Even if he is "just warming up", when he warms up and consistently beats Lando in say 2025, the roles should change. It's really no rocket science and it seem like McLaren is just overthinking it.

@@CrazyChemistPL I think lando making way for piastri to pass and win the race is symbolic of Lando getting out of the way for the new number 1 driver - Piastri. Lando doesn't have the mongrel inside to be world champion

Don’t ever ask me to do something like that again.

Team orders are nothing new, they’ve been around as long as the sport (Tony Brooks and Stirling Moss at Aintree is just one of many examples).

@@geoffsales7742 I really wish people's reading and comprehension was better sometimes. Thanks for your input though Geoff.

The inability to comprehend is seemingly abundant. For clarity I’m not critiquing your original post, I merely addressed the fact team orders always played a part in the sport we both love. Fiscal demands, creative engineering, driver skill and reliability have and always will be key components to making F1 what it is. The evolution to the modern era has diluted a lot of what I fell in love with back in the early 80’s (I’m a relative newcomer compared to you), so I guess we’re singing from the same hymn sheet.

​@@TheHitmann069only wish more people would put across their views in a constructive manner as you have above. A rarity on social media.

@@TheHitmann069 Well your comment wasn't entirely clear though I agree with your conclusions! Team orders work superbly when contracts and roles are clearly defined; I assume that "Geoff" meant something along those lines. It's usually clear which driver is better or at least in a better position each year. I'd say I agree roughly with Peter Windsor in that it's the current culture of the sport that causes the issues, not the role of finances. Drivers are supposed to be considerate, rounded, nice, team players. This is a nonsense that the teams unfairly impose on them. Max, while being objectionable, is entirely comfortable with fighting for his own interests and he's uncompromising with his team. The Red Bull team understand that that's how a really competitive person is and it has done rather nicely with that method. If you mean that the teams have to embrace this culture in order for F1 to be competitive as entertainment then I'm not entirely sure about that; maybe. Wasn't the current "success" built on hyped sensation of conflict? Wouldn't this race enhance that? Wouldn't a defiant Lando victory have made more headlines? I don't know; maybe all the drivers now have "disobeying order" clauses in their contracts. Mclaren didn't need to be so absurdly clumsy with it. I agree, the headlines are now almost entirely about rules, "morals" and incidental things rather than the sport.

Not sure how you can say Lando win was deserved when it was based on an undeserved pit stop strategy.

Zac Brown wasn't there?? Where was he?

Stella is an absolute wanker, the rubbish he was talking to Sky after to justify his wankerism.

@@mikespearwood3914 . He's McLaren CEO. He has a lot more than F1 going on. Andrea Stella runs the F1 team.

I think this is actually the best option. Lando should have bargained with the team: "I'll let him past & give him 2or 3 secs & then I'm allowed to attack for a while". I remember AUS 1998 when Coulthard let HAK back past him due to some pit call 'mix-up'. He became the No2 driver from that point on for me.....