Should Street Fighter 6 Have a Dash Button? 

This was interesting! :)

Yeah he brought up MvC2 but French Bread has been using dash macros as early as Melty Blood, even in a more grounded neutral game like UNI

Legit only time I use dash macro in uni was when I tried seth combos lmao. Definitely need to train myself for the macro in movement

You have drive rush tho

Eh, anywhere from a 2-5 frame advantage depending on a players input method sounds like an issue

@@firewalkwithjuno5421 Only for competitive plays, at which point you have to ask yourself whether you'd rather have a perfectly optimised game, or a game that appeals to the casual player. The casual player doesn't care about a three frame difference, but does care about if he can easily throw stylish combos and super arts, if he has a decent story/arcade mode, that kind of things. Imo those days fighting games pampers too much to high level players and not enough to casual players, which limits the scope of fresh blood sent into the mix.

Drive rush requires using dash command so I feel like it should.

@@NandolfBlockbuster This guy really decided to type out this paragraph when GGST exists as the ultimate McDonaldification of a game series yet. How are modern fighters not trying to appeal to the Casuals and instead "pampers too much to high level players".

The point about it being gatekept by an input device also struck me as weird. It... always was? It's just a new device now. People winning major tournaments with pad wasn't terribly common in the past, you were pretty much expected to buy a stick.

They could program the dash button to make you lose charge

@@RTU130 yes, however this is just reinforces the point that these things need to be considered by game developers, and can't just be thrown in haphazardly

@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 Definitely, there's not enough consideration

could you address this by perhaps making it so the stick must be in neutral for the macro to work?

Agreed

Missed the whole point

@@justrok79 I wrote it based on the question in the title, before watching the video. It’s a seperate point, and still relevant to the overall discussion that was going on at the time

btw you can do the hitbox dash trick on keyboard too in games that don't have dash macro, just hold forward and immidietly tap back(dont hold back) and its pretty much the same as having a dash macro

Re-balancing dashes to make adding the dash macro fair. And what does that entail? I'll give you time to think the answer before they put Slayer in the successful GGST.

@@DoodCT Would probably take less time than it would take you to learn basic reading comprehension. Or does the concept of porting Slayer directly into Strive from Xrd but with a dash macro sound like rebalancing to you? Turns out that balancing around the dash macro usually entails adding startup and visual effects to dashes. And hey! Guess what strive added to air dashes?

they added startup to airdashes and its absolutely horrible

@@wilburcobb8990 what is horrible about it?

Dash buttons won’t be added. Sorry kid

It really makes you wonder if the fighting games genre will one day evolve to include analog movements.

@@thechugg4372 i don't think that 'evolve' is the right word, but yeah, it does make you wonder

Double tapling a direction always feels bad to me, I knew I wasn't alone! Same with moves that use down-down-button inputs, I love Zato in Strive but invite hell is such an anniying move to use

Dashing forward combined with the throw or mk is my bread and butter

Same here, gimme pretzels or 1080's any day, just don't make me do 66 / 22.

just another hurdle to overcome. don't complain about hard things. just practice until you get it. find different ways to solve the problem. start slow and build up speed , etc. fucking weak ass mentality . musical instruments are extremely difficult and take years to learn yet people still perserve . im so sick of this complain complain complain mentality. i had the exact same struggles doing tight microdashes in blazblue combos. it was super frustrating but i powered through and eventually after some time i started getting more consistent and tensing up a lot less. ofc i mess up sometimes. execution mistakes happen. its a part of life and a part of being human. the longer you play and practice the less likely these execution mistakes are to show up.

Some games like Melty blood has dash macro by pressing a combination of inputs, like forward + (A+B). You can bind (A+B) into one button as well

@@randomuser-mv7bb what he's saying is Street Fighter has already used up a lot of that real estate. All punches and all kicks already taken, and different sets of simultaneous buttons are already going to be needed for at least 3 other system mechanics (drive rush, impact, parry) already. If the dash macro is something like light punch + medium kick+ heavy kick because all the easy button combinations are taken already, how much is it really going to help?

This is exactly my view. Most games aren’t designed with a dash button in mind and most controllers aren’t equipped to handle the addition of one. But I think the thing that most players are missing is that every controller already has advantages and disadvantages compared to one another and that has been accepted thing for years. Pads have a bit less travel time, sticks are easier to do multi-button moves with, and hitboxes have a control scheme that puts most people off of using one. This is just another in the long list of pros and cons of your controller choice and really isn’t as big of a problem as people are making it out to be.

except thing is everyone playing on buttonbox or keyboard or pad already has access an input which is the fastest dash possible, the only way to not have that is to not clean socd input which obviously causes problems too either we ban any input device that can press 2 directions at the same time (keyboard, pad, hitbox) or just give the stick players a dash macro

Agreed, it's just where we get that extra button from in a game like SF. Simplified control schemes might have a button to spare, but the rest of us might need to use a 3xK macro, or 3xP macro, which is not a problem. Hopefully this happens as I have been thinking about it for a while.

Double-tap recovers faster

Sfv dictator has this! His dash is a mini teleport with a few frames of invulnerability

@@Qobp Awesome! I hope it gets used a tiny bit more with certain speed related characters.

I like dashes because it makes movement more committal At certain ranges a dash can get you a quick combo or if they check if you get rekt. If some like Bison had no dash his movement would be less interesting, it'd also make shimmying even better than it already is

ever heard of practice? everyone can do anything if they try.

@@thepirateage6396 Sometimes people don't want to put any time or effort into a hobby/activity, especially if it's not an obligation. Same reason many people prefer restaurants over cooking a proper meal at home.

@@ToseRoyal thats what we call laziness man If you're learning an instrument or a sport those are hobbies that you must put decades into Fighting games are just not meant to be very easy but they're far easier than that People go to restaurants sometimes when they're lazy but if you spend all your days eating fast food and not disciplining yourself to spend some extra time and cook a healthy meal you're going to hurt yourself long term Practice and making an effort is always rewarding but it just doesn't provide short term gratification I found it quite difficult to microdash in blazblue combos. In guilty gear i played some characters that needed tight instant air dash links that i also had to learn After tons of grinding i got some of that stuff down and i felt extremely proud that the practice and frustration finally paid off Do i fuck up sometimes ? Yes everyone makes execution mistakes. Its only a natural part of life and being human to make mistakes. Im fine with that. Its part of the fun that there's always a risk of human error which puts more at stake.its also always possible for you to find different ways to solve the problem thats frustrating to you. For every technique there's many ways to do it. You gotta look for what's comfortable for you.

I think most people ideally want balanced character rosters as well, it's just that characters are so complex it's near impossible to keep them perfectly balanced while still being distinct. Character preference limiting players is something the community begrungingly accepts, but most of us still want devs to strive for better balance where they can.

@@MacZephyrZ yes but your skirting the point: a game can not be perfectly balanced with asymmetrical design. I wouldn't even say begrudgingly, it's an axiom. They begrudgingly accept that a patch will tank their top terror. How is preferring to use a less effective controller any different than preferring to use a less effective character?

Alternative controllers can be an absolute saving grace for differently abled people and I think that's an important consideration.

@@TheoryFighter in that regard, it's a no brainer.

you can make it a button combination like melty blood or MvC2 and 3. Doesnt have to just be like strive making it a whole new button. and for the "modern controls" in sf6 they can just make that the assist button works as a dash button too like how it works as an Autocombo on/off

@@MokonaModokiES we already have throw, ex moves, drive parry, drive impact and drive reversal for input combinations

I mean some people already do use extra buttons, I use the left bumper on my controller for V-trigger in SFV cause I find pressing RT and RB at the same time kind of awkward, so for me SFV is a 7 button game.

or maybe, just balance the game with macros and hitboxes in mind? this way you get accessibility without harming the balance if the game

Dude, the video looks at it from a balance perspective and a peripheral perspective. Execution exists not as a gatekeeping tool but as a balance mechanism. Granted, it isn't perfect, but that's because fighting games are so nuanced and intricate that changing even one thing about them can change the entire game. With regard to peripherals, adding a one button dash macro still shifts the favor to hitboxes and pads because of how easily they can perform a dash. There's just so much variability here that reducing the argument to "it feels bad to do, so make it one button" is self-serving and short-sighted. Also, why are you speaking on behalf of people with disabilities? I've seen peripherals made that help accommodate them, and not all people with disabilities experience the same difficulties.

​@@jorgemartinez6902 how would adding a 1 button dash macro make hitboxes/pads better than they are now? I feel like the controller that would benefit most from a dash macro would be arcade sticks.

@@nines2566 Hitbox has a technique called the instant dash that works on SF5. Even then, double tapping forward is very easy to do, and the video itself says that double tap dash is faster on hitbox than on lever. Even if the dash is only 2 frames faster, that's 2 frames the opponent doesn't get to respond in a genre where frames are everything. Pad has the benefit of the d-pad and the joystick. There are ways to get a dash out pretty fast on pad as a result. So, if double tap dash is inherently faster on hitbox and pad, it stands to reason that the two free buttons typically reserved for macros can be used for other inputs on those peripherals. Meanwhile, lever might need to opt to using one dash macro just to keep up, leaving the other button free for any macro. I'm looking at it from a button economy standpoint.

​@@jorgemartinez6902 As you said, hitbox and pad can dash faster than stick when there is no dash macro. IMO, getting rid of that gap in dash speed would be a bigger deal than giving hitbox and pad extra button space. Besides, what other inputs would they use the free buttons for?

No, thats what makes Street fighter street fighter really.

Never