Should Twitch Streamers Pay Their Moderators 

This is exactly what I think; if you're gonna treat it like a job, pay it like one. Otherwise they're doing it because they feel like it, and naturally you'll probably get worse effort too. It also tends to spread the mindset that all good deeds should be rewarded. If the streamer doesn't boss them around, they're basically just reporting people but with more power. I don't expect Riot to pay me for reporting cheaters and harassers in Valorant, I take that time myself because it's the right thing to do.

Bang on, volunteers can come n go. Maybe some run a rota to try to get as much coverage over stream times and stop having hordes of mods all on at the same times but they're not going to start getting warnings for being late or demands for a sick note if they miss a day. Doing paid work is a 2 way street. It's not just do work whenever it takes your fancy. You are making a commitment to do the work on the employers schedule and to their expectations.

The most reasonable take so far. People who think mods deserve payment in general are freaks.

I agree with this as well. If a mod is doing more then just modding a stream then why not.

Yeah especially with the ways they boss their mods around sometimes, it's crazy

Let's be honest chat mods are just glorified VIP chatters, they're degens who spend their entire life in their community (wether it's in chat, discord or reddit) and the streamer feels bad about how much time they waste so they get offered a mod badge to feel like it's not a waste of time anymore.

yeah, it's time you could make money if you were working. or could get some education that could earn you real something. imagine if some of them mfs got 4 hours of education on them mon-fri (or whatever) everyday for years what would they achieve. some do even more hours it's crazy

@@MFillmore I mean oftentimes they're fans like everyone else watching lol, they're probably just happy to be a big part of their community and don't realize they're being taken advantage of lol

Yea on Twitch, Reddit and Discord. These people spend their days moderating communities, wtf else do they do if they can do that AND not, y'know, die of hunger or whatever.

that's fckd up, but as much as i hate to say this... what stops the mods from showing up? they must be some kids who take pride in that badge OR (worse) streamers often have close communities in discords etc, and mods just pressure each other to it. i once was in such discord (although i wasn't a mod) and it was as bad as it sounds. worst part was, there was no way of explaining to these kids that none of us HAVE TO do anything and if we just stop either now the streamer has no mods, or he will have to respect our opinion. the streamer was the most wholesome guy ever, but his discord was the worst community i've ever seen (well, on par with SOME)

if a large streamer can afford it this is a great idea, it's very ideal

@@dylandykes1237 what he should be gratefull for? Doing work for free??

@@dylandykes1237 Ikr and those pesky sweatshop workers are always complaining they only make a dollar a day but atleast they make money. Suuuper ungrateful of them. 3head

@@ria_x_rose huh?

@@derhytel Sarcasm

even if they aren’t pay them otherwise you’re literally stealing from them

@@SKULLKR3W How can you steal something that is free?

@@SKULLKR3Wstealing? Most of these mods are just doing it voluntarily . It definitely ain’t stealing

The simplest way to put it 🙌🏼 if they added value 100% agree

Its voluntary work, I dont see why they should be paid

i dont get why people mod chat

E y

nah no one should

Nobody is forcing the mods to work, they volunteered to do the job because they care about the streamer and the experience, if they really didn't want to work for free then it's as simple as them not doing it, they aren't forced to sit in the streams, they aren't forced to ban anyone or timeout people. They aren't forced to sift through ban appeals, they can just be a normal chat member if they no longer want to volunteer their service. You all are speaking on the behalf of these mods as if this wasn't a conscious choice that they made or like they're being exploited somehow. Plus as Lud said it creates a weird dynamic where you start getting less people who mod because they actually care and more because it's their income and quality drops, plus there's hardly even a way to track who's doing what work so you wind up paying some guy who's practically doing nothing the same amount as someone who spends more time banning people than they do actually watching the streams. It's messy and unnecessary to do that for a position that inherently voluntary. Is it nice to pay mods? Of course, if you want to pay your mods then go for it, but you shouldn't be expected to do so.

Even more reason is the small streamers don't need dozens of mods to moderate their streams. So even less of a reason. Top 100 though? 10k+ viewers yeah. It's hard to moderate that. 1k a month is still pocket change and can be used by the mods to do fun things. IMO, of course.

Nah

@@hongomybongo9684 Here's the attention you wanted

but it can function

@@sphinxyt5810 What are you basing that opinion on

@@shortsrus common sense

If you don’t like working for free don’t... easy as that, like seriously if you’re modding for someone you know doesn’t pay for his mods why be a mod for him to begin with? You volunteer and complain when you don’t get paid!? Makes no sense to me...

@@jackwitter3526 can you not comprehend any complex issues, everyone always talk about the parasocial relationship between content creators and fans and you can't put the two pieces together? fans volunteer for these jobs because they like the creator without considering many other factors, when your boss is someone you idolize, the relationship is immediately imbalanced. many people modding are younger and they also might not understand the implications of working for free especially when that job should definitely be paid there are so many more factors than "well they volunteered so they shouldn't be paid."

@@Turtlee. I think mods that work it like a second job, and don’t get paid should re-evaluate the way they want/should spend their time. Not saying they shouldn’t get paid for working a second job, it’s just I don’t get how you could continue to agree to work for someone that clearly doesn’t value your time and hard work... their has to be some sort of gratification in doing it if you can convince them to stay, imagine if McDanks just told its employees that they will be paid 0 dollars for working that day, no smart person would show up... same thing don’t do the job if it’s not rewarding

@@jackwitter3526 not saying it’s the same thing but your argument reminds of people who say “if the relationship was so abusive why didn’t they just leave”

@@JustAFCasual ya i get where you are coming from, but when someone gets out of a shitty relationship where their time isn’t valued (job, Romantic, and even family) they look back and wish they should have left sooner... the truth is, it does take 2 to have an abusive relationship and you are doing nothing but hurting yourself and giving the abuser the power he wants. Not trying to victim blame, but most people willing to stay in a relationship like that have very low self esteem issues that they have to work on!

is there even a job were you DONT get payd? other than voluntary or church stuff? but even priests and nun's get a paycheck, i think.

@@trythis2006 I mean, in the end, mods are voluntary. I'd love if everyone could pay their mods, but if one can and another can't that seems unfair.

@@callmecei9246 i dont think its unfair at all, if you care about the stream you moderate you grow with it too, so eventually you Will get payed if you stick with it and see potential

@@trythis2006 don't say that. The literal problem is these mods already believe"i'll get paid eventually! and if i don't then someone needs to force these streamers to do it becuase its corrupt" Don't give them the idea that you will get paid eventually. because most likely you WONT

@@trythis2006 Even slaves got paid

why pay someone when someone else will do it for free?

​@@Koltenyoutube because if they're actually putting allot of effort they deserve money

@@Koltenyoutube because you’re not a shitty human being? Idk that’s my first thought

@@lancetheking7524 they watch it as much as a regular chatter except they have perms to ban and timeout. they need to timeout people like 5 times an hour its not much work bro why do you think they have so many mods

@@Koltenyoutube because 100k viewers on average means at least a few hundred to a thousand bad eggs per hourly or longer stream?

but why? why do that shit for free??? I don't get why you would enslave yourself to someone just because you enjoy streams???

That sounds absolutely awful. Streams with bellow 1k viewers generaly have OK chats. More than that, and especially really big streamers, the chat becomes an absolute cesspool of spam with the same emotes and memes 24/7. Looking at that chat for more than 5 minutes is painful, I don't know how you could do it 40 hours a week for no pay.

But why did you keep doing it if you weren’t getting compensated??

@@ymetro1530 that’s what I’m saying lmao imagine if people volunteering at soup kitchen’s were like “ok so where’s our pay I’ve given up all my time and have even been harassed I deserve something at least” literally just stop doing it or if it matters that much go find somewhere that’ll pay.

I try to be less mean to be people, but this is genuinely hilarious and makes me laugh. Sorry you played yourself.

honestly though, like if your putting your time to take care of a streamers chat when thats kinda of a part of their job then they should get paid for the time they put in

It's slave labor. It's EXACTLY how it works. You'll work for free because if you don't, we'll throw you out and replace you with someone who will. It's LITERALLY slave labor.

Exactly

But again most mods are volunteers they want to help. If I volunteer I don’t expect to get paid but also the streamer should expect to always be there

Alot of time its either volunteer work or friends doing it.

Not all mods are Good. Most streamers' mods are extremally sensitive and ban you in a heartbeat if you don't say something they don't like. I have rarely had good encounters with mods and It's not like I go into a chat and start talking trash or talking non stop, I literally don't do anything they are just sensitive as hell.

@@Quinners08 but that is the point. There are good community managers and bad community managers, but community management is a job. Ideally the streamer would fire bad employees

@@josephdemarchi2128 idc Kai is better than u

@@saviors9148 and joseph is better then you, but what's your point???

@@saviors9148 Keep sucking his dingle then lmao

Small streamers moderating for eachother is a great way to do it, neither of you can afford to pay so you can just help eachother out

@Helluva really based

@@siannn a very good solution! ^^

No. If you yourself volunteer to be a mod, no. If a streamer contacted you to be their mod, then yes.

@Bully peter fall into a wood chipper

Yeah he's just a raw pure trash human. It's why Twitch never gave him no recognition for the longest time until people started forcing the issue because of "color" He's fucking scum man. Everything he does reminds me of hood/ghetto shit I used to live near. Definitely not someone who should have a platform. Anyone with that kinda money that doesn't tip doesn't deserve shit.

@@CrustedPork interesting, because I always wondered why it seemed like he just came out of nowhere on top

Did they get paid normally? They did get hired….

@Peste You must have 0 clue how the food service industry works. A huge percentage of their income comes from tips. Being just a normal average joe and not tipping already makes you an asshole. Being a teenager who makes an absurd amount of money sitting in a fkin gamer chair all day and not tipping makes you far beyond an asshole. Personally I think tips should not be an expected thing and they should just up the wages so workers get paid adequately regardless. But thats simply not the world we live in

This is what happens when your audience is made up of 99% children. They'll work for free. No adult with any substance to their name would work for these big streamers for free. Putting in basically FULL TIME hours on some streams while having to be glued to the monitor at all times isn't something any human who actually has values would do.

Didnt know a streamer as big as xqc dont pay or reward their mods, thats crazy. I couldnt be that selfish. Must suck somehow for some mods. Feelsbadman.

@@pinokio3785 They choose to be a moderator. Now how exactly do you determine how much work a moderator have done in the past month? Do you base it on how many timeouts / bans they've made? As he stated himself, he doens't want the employee / employer relationship in case shit gets weird. Equality and work ethics is exactly how shit gets weird, especially for a job that consists of moderating a chat window.

@@MrBa143 "as he stated himself, he doens't want the employee / employer relationship"" okidoki

@@MrBa143 he tracks hours like every other employer on the planet. labor laws were invented specifically because of people like xqc who think they are owed people's labor for free or slave rates. Labor laws just haven't caught up yet to the streamer market.

I think people the top 0.01% twitch streamers should pay their mods. If it's a small chat(up to 1k concurrent viewers), it's VERY easy to mod the chat. It can also enhance your viewing experience and not detract from it. It's not a "job". But once you become a 5k or higher andy. It becomes a huge detraction from your viewing experience and it becomes a "job". Tbh, I think Platforms should add a counter to how many active(chatting/modding) hours you were on stream for the streamer to look at and determine how much you get paid. I think big streamers have no excuse on this.

Saying that if someone makes "400k a year" they cant pay their mods is fucking awful and greedy. I make more than that with my business and STILL pay a competitive and fair salary for the work done (plus bonuses if we get big projects out the door on time) and can still live my life and reinvest in my business. I understand if these are smaller streamers and the mods are their friends, but when you get to the 3k+ range of viewers you should be giving your mods something, even if it's only a 100 bucks a month. Nobody is saying pay them 6,000 for doing this shit, but if they arent your friends and you had to do applications like a job to "hire" them they should at least receive something.

@@DrCranberry Congrats this has now involved a taxable income. But in the words of Miz he tossed away $10K and he might memeing but a liability for payroll/salary adds layers to this business model. What if the mod isn't in your country? Good luck with the taxes

@@ErikPT You are aware this would fall under "self employment" correct?

@@DrCranberry i don't think he knows what being self employed means in terms of monetary actions/accountability. Like how when your self employed you have to pay yourself your salary from a business account or that you can use earnings in the business account to buy things for yourself as long as you can prove it qualifies as a reasonable business expense/investment.

No.

no

Don't give them a fixed salary but some minor perks if it means monetary then yes. A streamer can't be liable to pay upwards of 100,000 for 20 mods or 30,000 a year for 10 mods. Not all streamers are Ninja or XQC

but as many know, out of the top 1-2 k streamers dont make enough to pay someone else

​@@tamhuy10full-time streamer usually mean they make easily enough to support their own life

@@cngotham4111 . supporting their own life is different than having enough to pay others. they should also save up for when they go downhill. I see a lot of full timers who get about 100-200 average viewers. i dont think they make enough to afford paying mods regularly

I don't think ALL full time streamers, I think of the people who treats their mods like employees, if you expect them to be there regularly and help with ever they can or else you'll "fire" them (take away mod badge) then you should pay them.

I know you mean exploitation but I can just imagine some mod going on some grand adventure to get paid.

they are volunteering how is it exploitation

@@Koltenyoutube because genZ doesn't think labor should ever be free even if you volunteer... and they think they should get paid just to get out of bed in the morning

It’s not exploitation because it’s volunteer work. If you go to a soup kitchen to feed the homeless, do you demand to be paid?

@@gamefreak2016 are soup kitchens for profit enterprises making millions of dollars? Is ludwig a charitable organization?

he has such an ego that he thinks he mods should feel blessed to moderate his chat

T1 has always been cringe

Do you think being a moderator should actually be a substantial job to pay off rent, mortgage, taxes, debt? Relying solely on a creator's kindness to make a living is an irresponsible mindset. "What happens when they need to pay bills?" Moderators need to get their ass up and go get interviewed. It is not the content creator's responsibility for their livelihood. *this does not pertain to the hardworking mods who realize this line* But maybe you just dislike T1 but he didn't raise his voice solely because the mod asked. But because the mod insinuated other mods from another content creator are getting paid xyz amount. Alike to what Ludwig said, most time it's the senior mods that are reliable and more trustworthy. You create that interface from the beginning. Do I agree that mods shouldn't be paid? No. Do I disagree with your reasoning? Yes.

@@bebong6412 no one’s saying that it needs to be, but, mr. Salty for no damn reason, there’s no reason it CANT be. If you put in the hard work to give a service, then you should be paid for it plain and simple.

​@@ployter94 The first I heard of him was a couple years ago when he played in Minecraft Monday and was toxic to Technoblade. Worst first impression he could've made. I haven't liked him since tbh

it’s rlly not tho

makes a lot more sense to it for 'commission' wise than a wage. If you need people or something to happen for an event, that would be fair to pay those putting in that effort.

​@legioinvigilata For moderation for a stream I could see an hourly wage Since yk Streams arent necessarily set start and end times So that makes sense Anything else yeah I agree

Only if the mods don’t have any requirements that they have to meet for big streamers, it’d be pretty nice if streamers gave their mods a little bit of money every now and then, as a gift of appreciation for their hard work

@don't be surprised nobody cares lol

@@therealinfinito well reading is needed to be a mod.

Should someone get paid for the job there intended to do ...... yes end of story

I think it really depends on the work you do like wojito showing his value with the slicker scandal.

This is why streamers hire people for the positions they want filled or skill sets they want available. A mod shouldn’t have any responsibilities other than MODerating chat. The “mods” that go so above and beyond do it on their own accord and shouldn’t expect monetary gain from it. If they want to apply for an actual position within a company to utilize a skill set they have, then it’s a different story.

@@guy1641 There are such things as entry level positions. The idea of doing a task for free is nuts. People need to stop putting this job on a pedestal. Maybe some mods wouldn’t get out of hand with a power trip if they could be fired. Keeping a community an awesome place to be is important. And it’s not an easy task. So many people act like being a mod is a place of honor or something. But it doesn’t have to be like that. It’s a job. And if streamers can’t manage their mods then that’s on them. And if a mod can’t fulfill their tasks or abuses their position they can be fired. It’s so weird that people think being a mod is this popularity contest. Talk to mods that have to deal with crap from viewers and they’ll probably paint a different picture. They get threatened, abused, and harassed. Sure. They should do that for free. 🙃 for someone else’s gain. They can’t even be open about their identity in many cases so they can’t even use it to apply for a job someplace else for another streamer. Or other jobs you seem to think streamers have to offer. Or in other sectors where moderating is important.

@@SewSewLive lmao it’s not a job. There’s no employment contract, no benefits, no taxes, most streamers wouldn’t even be capable or have the means of managing things like a payroll. It’s volunteer work at most. That’s where the disconnect is. This sounds like a whole lot of victimizing to me. If someone’s a mod that’s getting harassed and/or not enjoying being a mod….why do it?

@@guy1641 yea. Why do it? Especially for free. Why should anyone spend their time building someone else’s business. For free. I get it for a small community. But that’s it.

you can literally stop modding whenever you want and no you would not pay up to 10% of your revenue to mods alone

@@justyahz796 Of course you can. That’s why I said you should try “renegotiating”. If you don’t like it, stop. And yes, I would do that? So long as it’s a reasonable amount, I can’t exactly convey the full scope of my economical considerations for paying mods in a relatively short RU-vid comment. It was a general statement. Who do you think you are to tell me what I would and wouldn’t do?

@@T0NI_ ehh based on data you probably wouldn’t... talk is easy, but actually doing it is a whole another deal. Paying 10% of your earnings to mods is actually nuts and I’ll call fuckin cap. Most Mods I feel do it for free because they want the status of being mods...

@@jackwitter3526 It's 100% cap. I'm just confused on how people want to actually get paid. like as a channel grows theres no shortage of mods. I've actually modded for a larger streamer and also helped moderate their discord. dealing with their discord was much harder than moderating a stream especially when you have bunch of other mods there too. The work is not hard and you don't need to be there every stream, it's 100% volunteering and people acting like it is hard work and if you're not there the whole stream will fail without you. A mod is just a viewer who is trusted to keep things in order, there is no requirement or needed training, if you want to be paid that's 100% on the goodness of the streamer, but to me it's just paying someone to watch a stream

@@Ilint ​ You're right - any top streamer could get rid of all of their mods tomorrow, open up applications, and have hundreds of people pouring in ready to mod. I think a very important part you're ignoring however is that the difference between a great mod and a bad one is massive. It's exaggerated even further when we're talking about more specific cases like head mods and community managers. These are usually people who have been around for a very long time, have more responsibilities, have a crystal clear track record, and are likely modding for the right reasons. Most streamers also have spaces for their community to interact outside of Twitch on platforms like Discord and Reddit. How are these spaces with tens of thousands of members going to be healthy, warm, and welcoming environments that accurately reflect the values of the streamer without quality moderation and engagement? Without some type of organization, moderation guidelines, rules, checks, and balances? Communities don't blossom out of thin air; they are cultivated by people. You need to build trust, transparency, and consistency. There is so much more to all of this than clicking an icon in chat every once and a while during an otherwise ordinary viewer experience. Mods being "easily replaceable" isn't a good argument against paying them because the _best_ mods can't be easily replaced in any meaningful way. This conversation does not revolve around every single user with a green sword next to their name on the website. Ludwig literally gives known examples of people _by name_ from different communities who have found themselves with employment opportunities. This is about similar people who work without a wage and whether or not that should increasingly change as we move forward. Whether you personally think the work is "hard" or not - whatever your conception of that work even is - is irrelevant. These are human beings performing a _necessary_ task of clear value - especially if they do their job well! There are tons of ways to structure all of this. You could have a team of 3 really solid people. You can have one community manager doing all of the heavy lifting but still working with a team of more casual mods and compensating them in smaller ways for smaller workloads and secondary support. You can have a slush fund like Ludwig that's divided amongst the mods evenly every month. You could have mod appreciation days where viewers get a chance to donate to a different link that all goes towards the mods; potentially incentivizing them to do the best job they can in the process. Certain ways will undoubtedly be messier than others but I think the ultimate point people are advocating for is that paying professional mods, a community manager, an assistant, whatever their title ends up becoming, is a higher quality solution on multiple levels for tending to and cultivating a community than a revolving door of "volunteers" even if it costs some money in the end. It really just comes down to whether or not the streamer recognizes that value in those under them.

I mean they’re doing it for free so you can just unmod them and mod more active chatters just because they’re mod now doesn’t mean they’re entitled to it

"Well, 80% of my mods don't show up and do the work, but they're doing it for free so what can I do?" You can also take that quote as "Well, they work for free so they can just show whenever they want to." Or, "If they're paid, they have the responsibility to show up and do what they're paid for." This is like those Hotel Nightmares by Gordon Ramsey. Owners never paid their employees and gets mad when those employees doesn't take the job seriously.

If possible you could just have 5x more mods. If that isn't possible there's no choice but to yeet the inactive ones.

Yeah, size does matter in this instance. If you're small, you don't need to pay them because it's not going to be enough people or it's People helping, but when it comes to bigger stuff, it's very taxing

@@Arlesmon you could give something in return that isn't expensive just as a thank you from time to time if you are a small streamer.

they do work, it needs to be paid. it's not hard. don't matter if people will do it for less, it matters that it's being done, it's the whole minimum wage thing, same shit different name

@@ThaGr1m lmao no

Yeah agree 100%

@@ThaGr1m LOL

@@enzoarweq4525 come on explain, work is done, work needs to be paid, just because some other desperate fool wil do it cheaper doesn't mean that should be done. now you go ahead and tell me why "no"

Yes!!! Absolutely!!!

this is an excellent point

Wouldn't say so, bots replace mods in most cases

Yea I don't agree that there dependant on mods

A lot of those streamers seem to forget without mods. That the things chat has said and if it stays in chat can and will get them banned it's happened before and can still happen. Hence why mods are needed in the first place.

True, i was shocked, how the mods tolerate these people. i know people in my work life that would quit the moment someone talked to them the way tyler and kay were speaking to their unpaid labor. To be honest this is not Tyler and Kai fault, if these mods want to be submissive and work for free to someone a making bank, that is not even their friend(not that that changes anything) there is nothing we can do except make fun of these mods for the beta males they are

Lol what. If a streamer wants to pay their mods, there's nothing wrong with that. But mods "shouldn't" have to be compensated; it's literally volunteer-work. If you're unhappy about not receiving any form of payment, just dont mod the chat, that simple

@@2mac_mini952 I get that. I just personally don't feel it's right to have someone work for you, profit off their help, then not give them any form of compensation. Just because that's the norm now doesn't mean it should be.

The vast majority of streamers also can't afford proper wages on their own. Most of them are doing it as a hobby or earning money through a side hussle.

@@Abyssionknight Then just don't help them if you want to be economically compensated

@@Abyssionknight If they're doing it without expecting to be paid, why should you pay them

t1 is the perfect example for this

Then what happens if Twitch ends up improving the bot machines to filter out those people and essentially replaces the current mods. That would be pretty funny too tbh.

@@esRaortiz auto moderation can never quite compare to the value of real moderation, context matters in every situation. As an example, something like joking about someone dying would be fairly difficult to automatically moderate without being either way too lenient or way too strict, you need that human element to filter it in order to give an appropriate punishment but not kill the chats mood

That's never going to happen because there will ALWAYS be people asking for mod role for big-ish streamers. Hell, I still see mod-begging for small streamers.

Because its not the same thing lmao

@@enzoarweq4525 they both provide a service to improve the content of the streamer. Now I’m terms of how much they should be paid, that’s a different conversation, since a good editor is highly skilled, but they both do a job, and they both should be paid.

@@partypandamonium9116 being a mod is a choice a free service so why pay them if you volunteer to be a staff you will not get payed if you asked to be hired then you should get payed

the reason is they don't have to; so many "fans" would gladly do it for free

it's a volunteer position though. the mods become mods knowing full well they won't be paid lol

Nobody is forcing the mods to work, they volunteered to do the job because they care about the streamer and the experience, if they really didn't want to work for free then it's as simple as them not doing it, they aren't forced to sit in the streams, they aren't forced to ban anyone or timeout people. They aren't forced to sift through ban appeals, they can just be a normal chat member if they no longer want to volunteer their service. You all are speaking on the behalf of these mods as if this wasn't a conscious choice that they made or like they're being exploited somehow. Plus as Lud said it creates a weird dynamic where you start getting less people who mod because they actually care and more because it's their income and quality drops, plus there's hardly even a way to track who's doing what work so you wind up paying some guy who's practically doing nothing the same amount as someone who spends more time banning people than they do actually watching the streams. It's messy and unnecessary to do that for a position that inherently voluntary. Is it nice to pay mods? Of course, if you want to pay your mods then go for it, but you shouldn't be expected to do so.

Like you said, mods WANT to be mods, they knew going into it that they weren't getting paid, they made that choice on their own, that's "their prerogative"

@@nyxislost553 exactly.

@@nyxislost553 At a certain point it takes a turn and becomes predatory. No matter how much someone wants to mod for free work is still work and to allow someone to do real hard work for you for no gain of their own simply because they want to please you, that's not a healthy relationship dynamic. Real friends do things for each other for free because it's an equal, reciprocal relationship. This isn't the case in a moderator/streamer relationship. Just watching chat and removing troublemakers is one thing, but if they're putting in real hours for the stream the power dynamic needs some form of equalization and the best way to do that with someone who isn't an irl friend is through money. Just because someone will allow themselves to be taken advantage of happily doesn't make it ethical.

@@nyxislost553 The thing is they're taking advantage of parasocial relationships where this person vicariously feels like they're doing something meaningful because they themselves hold the streamer and the stream to a high regard in terms of significance. Often times streamers don't have age limits either and take advantage of teens. These are people who are taking time to manage your stream, why not pay them if you can? It doesnt have to be overpaid either like it can be an average hourly wage which these streamers make more than enough to compensate. Also I think money would incentivize mods to take it more seriously or they will lose their job where as right now atm the only benefit is to those who power trip because if you get "fired" from a free job, who else would care? I hope this is the new patreon type of deal where creators/artists woke up one day and asked "why am i doing this for free?" and are now thriving and making a living from it.

You have definitely never ever been- as a mod... that is such bullshit and so much romantizising of what a mod actually does xD

@@LoFiAxolotl I can guarantee you without a shadow of doubt there are great mods in countless communities doing every. single. thing. the comment described and much more in some (paid) cases. These job positions quite literally exist in the world today regardless of what ANYONE in the comments wants to say: they're called community managers. The people who represent this role in the streaming space are typically called "head mods". You absolutely have to manage the mod team and collectively work towards a desired community culture if you want the community to be the best it can be. If the Discord, Twitch, or Reddit needs new mods you'll have to go over their applications (if you even recruit that way) or speak with them individually as sort of an informal interview to try to gauge their temperament as much as you can beyond what's already observable from their behavior in the community. Once you bring someone on you'll have to walk them through whatever moderation guidelines you have along with your community's bots and commands. Furthermore, when someone is outright abusing their powers or simply handling moderation inappropriately - you guessed it - you have to deal with it! You need to remember we're talking about new frontiers of the service industry. Streaming wasn't even really a respected career in our society 10 years ago and depending on who you ask it's probably still not! All of this might not resemble some corporate office structure with full blown HR, PR, Management, etc. but head mods are effectively doing all of the same things for the space as it exists now. And again, this is REALLY IMPORTANT: we're talking about specific people in specific communities on the platform. We're not talking about every single user with a green sword. Apologies for the long comment but for anyone who believes good mods aren't worth even a dime: what do you genuinely think would happen if every mod disappeared tomorrow? These are human beings performing a *necessary* task of clear value - especially if they do their job well.

@@LoFiAxolotl i don't care if you really believe me or not, when i admined the streamer had 15k-90k conçurent views per stream, the roles of admins and community manager and their tasks grow with the streamer themselves. i'm not saying everyone did this, we were a handful that got to have the leadership position (admins and senior moderators). it also truly depends on the community, the content and moderation culture in that community forced us to have rigid structures like this

@@ty-td4gq thank you you said it better than i could

@@peachmaze I thought you did great! Just wanted to add anything I could to support once I saw, no offense IDDQD, such a closed off response to you describing *very* common community structures in this space. Much love!

What do you mean “making people waste time for free”? The mods are long time fans of the streamer. They want to be there. They shouldn’t expect to get paid and they shouldn’t be paid. If they want to get paid they can go get an actual job and prob make more than a mod would

@@Devon.with.an.i They are fans of the streamer that most likely had to apply to be a mod. Almost all streamers have mod applications. They weren't just made a mod because they're a fan.

@@zetetsu7169 …but they decided to be a Mod as they were a fan. That’s like the only checkbox to fill-all others are complementary.

@@zetetsu7169 yeah, they’re long time fans who applied to be mods. They didn’t apply for the part thinking they’d be getting paid

@@Devon.with.an.i And? most don't expect to be paid for small streamers since it's small and pretty easy to mod. Have you seen the big streamers chat? It literally requires them to constantly watch chat and make sure nothing that can get the streamer banned to get through. If a mod wants to do that for free that's fine. But to suddenly have to mod for almost 8 hours a day and not do anything else? That's a job at that point and most people would like to be compensated. most big streamers actually do pay their mods. Some don't like example T1.

Iv had this same thing happen : ( I hope ludwig makes a vid or a podcast on how to have this not happen

These people are not XQC's friends. Maybe being paid would create a healthy non-parasocial dynamic

@@lowell751 I wouldn't presume how close or far from friends XQC is with people I dunno, that seems kind of parsocial in of itself.

Or you can be a normal human being and *communicate* GASP. Maybe they can consider explains that they are super grateful for all they have done and continue to do for the s stream and want to compensate them for it if they are comfortable

I encontered the reverse of this situation where I was paying for the gass and the moment I asked for a payback on that it got weird. I also had a friend who I asked for money back for driving and he basically though I was abusive so I cut his ass out. It really depends on the people you hang out with. In my opionon it should be a fair deal someone pays for something make sure to pay him back OR at least give him something for it.

What a good friend for getting the same haircut as Ludwig in support.

@@tana3875 Actually Ludwin got a haircut to support Ludwig and mogul mail. After those two fought with razorblades.

Everyone wants to be an internet janitor or they wouldn’t do it for free

but they barely add any value to a stream. unless they themselves help with content produced. most mods just sit and watch the stream if they see somin bad being sad they delete and ban. they are normal viewers with the ability to ban and delete messages.

@@void-wx4fs If you want to see the value that they add, see how long it takes a large stream to be banned if all their moderators stop working and they continue to stream

@@enider i hope u do realise a streamer cant be banned by what their chat say. and when i said they add no value i didnt mean they litreally do jack shit and are useless bro.

​@@void-wx4fs "Streamers are role models and leaders of the communities they create or foster around them. Streamers are expected to use channel moderators and the tools we provide, such as AutoMod , chat timeouts and bans, to mitigate hateful conduct in their channel. Not using the provided tools to moderate hateful conduct appearing on a channel-or otherwise attempting to mitigate the behavior/content-will lead to a suspension." Thats a direct quote from Twitch terms of service. Since it is litreally impossible for one person who is also trying to sctually stream to also be moderating a chat with 10k+ people, they can very much be banned if their chat starts going of the rails.

@@enider i dont get why theyd ban the streamer for others actions but fair enough. still, paying mods will just create drama even if u pay the mods equally. there will be hard working mods making the same as some lazy bum who hasnt even checked in stream for ages. + most mods volunteer to be mods knowing full well they are not going to get payed.

Understanding xQc is an entire skill set on its own. You need a whole ass Rosetta Stone or translator just to interpret it into English.

Yeah. Modding is a weird spot. For most streamers its just indulging in the parasocial relationship aspects. You get "more" access to the person behind the scenes but to them you're just an expendable resource. The paycheck would absolutely sever that relationship. It's no longer a fake friendship, it's a job with responsibilities.

he can’t mogul mail killed ludwig

@don't be surprised unfortunately, no.

Unfortunately Ludwig was taken out by Mogul mail, we need a resurrection arc

Nice copy and paste for likes comment bro.

@@zeuskidkash8845 yes!!! A resurrection arc! ❤️ Brilliant idea!

i saw stevesuptic do a mod day, he streams and chatters know that the donos on that day go to the mods

Donation payment is stupid af in my opinion. Here's why... You have a contracted streamer, Ludwig in this case, that rakes in a cool 7 figure income every year BECAUSE HE STREAMS. Sure, he probably makes side income, but at the very least his contract with RU-vid pays well over 6 figures and is plenty to support a payment plan. His mods do a large amount of work for the stream. He's utilized them in several different ways, even to the point where he asks them to do mundane tasks throughout the stream. "hey mods, lets put a poll up" "hey mods, change the title of the stream" "ok, the mods put together this list for me..." etc. We've heard it more than once, they do work. Not just that, but then account for the amount of time the mods invest into the stream. Even if they sit there and just do plain moderation, they're still sitting there for 3-6 hours at a time. Ofc theres those that aren't there for the whole stream, but there are definitely those who are. Either way, at the end of the day, the mods do enough work to earn at minimum some sort of salary. Even if its 100 bucks per stream, they should be on a payment plan. This is all dependent on the relationship between the streamer and mods, and yes Ludwigs mods are seemingly happy with their relationship with Ludwig, but Im looking at this altruistically, and the streamer should have no qualms with out right paying their mods if they make enough. Not just that, but its super simple to create a payment system for mods. Its not hard to have a singular, trustworthy person watch the mods and report mods activity. What im seeing though, is streamers don't see their streaming as a business. They can't because if they do that brings on too many responsibilities that they aren't mature enough to embrace or accept. In short, donations as payment is stupid because it releases the burden of pay from the streamer onto twitch chat... which alleviates the streamer of any qualms such as "oh, you werent paid that much this month? well sorry donations were really low i guess, lets hope next month is better!". In short, its a cheapskates way of pushing responsibility in the form of charity.

@@MrGamis they get more than 100 /day with the donos

@@tamhuy10 your point is what? "Oh they get more than the lowest suggested amount you gave therefore you're wrong?" Is that seriously your argument? I tossed that number to showcase how low the bar CAN BE for the streamers. Fact is Ludwigs mods put hours of work and effort in and deserve a decent paycheck. Not 4 or 500 a month MAYBE from donos. If you think that Ludwig makes more than what he does with his contract in donos, you're sorely mistaken. The only good thing about the dono system is the fact the mods get paid at all. Its nothing but a tactical scam on his mods to keep them thinking they're getting what they're deserved and eliminating all precedent for him to actually pay them and treat them decently as employees since that's essentially what they are.

@@MrGamis L

That's a fairly naive take on a quite complex matter. Like was stated in the video, only a very small mlnority of the streamers even have the financial ability to consider it. Not to mention legal issues you need to take into account potentially, not just from the streamers home country, but also from the mods' as well.

spoken like a true discord mod 😂

His bio was made by his ex, xqc hired someone to make his bot, and xqc does change his titles. It's crazy you got all of those wrong lol

Isn't this already a thing for some mods? I saw some mods have access to the stream in some way (I don't really know exactly) like where they can help change the stream title, help change layouts, etc. Things similar to what a live producer does I think in a stream context.

give them a pat on the back then.... they're volunteering....

….12 bucks for Christmas?

Can some one sum this up

tldr; weird dynamic argument again

bro youre literally working for free :skull: