I have an RT and I get asked the same question in reverse. I chose the RT over the GS because the RT has better wind protection. Ultimately you can’t ignore the reason there is an RT and a GS. The RT was built for more touring comfort even though the GS is also a perfectly capable tourer. Each to their own. I would not trade my RT on a GS.
I have had my RT since 2015 and the only time I have not appreciated all the bells and whistles was when I found myself on a loose gravel road - 11 kms in and 11kms out to the tar road. The big beast (in rain mode) behaved well and I took it slow and survived to tell the tale. The screen - as long as it is kept clean just disappears after a while - I don't notice it anymore. A wiper at slow speeds in the rain would help. As for being ugly - the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find those road bikes with a weird shaped headlight stuck out the front to be ugly (the new KTM is one). I have it on good authority that the sight of an RT filling the rearview mirror is an awesome sight. I don't think I could go back to sports or cruiser bikes. You are right - there is bike envy involved when people see you on any BMW - some say it's an old mans bike - but if being comfortable - mile after mile, on a reliable machine makes me an old man - so be it. As the Penguin says "Smile and wave boys" and I will just keep smiling all the way.
I've just got off back to back testing of these two bikes, & bought the GSA 1250. My wife & I tested them 7 times, the GS 1250 exclusive, the GSA 1250 Rallye, the RT 1250 & a brand new GSA 1200. It wasn't hard at all to separate these bikes at all. My wife only has pillion experience & was gob smacked at how different all bikes felt. When it comes to comparing the GS to anything, you really have to separate the GSA from the GS. It is amazingly better the GSA over the GS. When we got off the GSA 1250, we jumped onto the RT & after 10mins our legs were sore. The RT has your knees bent more, & the GSA was so much more comfortable having your legs more "Stretched" out. The handling on the RT was better around a corner. It was almost effortless, where as the GSA it felt like every corner you were almost hanging off. Thats because its taller, & the RT's centre of gravity is lower so turning in & hanging is quicker & easier. I dont find the "Cocoon" feeling of no wind on the RT a good thing at all. The essence of motorbiking is "the wind in your hair" so to speak. I live in Sydney AUS, & its been a hot summer so far, I've almost cooked myself at lights on the 3 week old GSA. When i start moving its only slightly better. My Ducati monster is a delight for summer, all wind ! Do you get what I mean gents? The RT is a great bike, & like i've said before, if it wasn't for the GSA, I probably would've bought an RT. I need multiple bikes, & the GSA nails it for a majority of rides. I've noticed RT owners are usually vertically challenged people. I've never seen a tall RT rider. I now know why after the cramped ride compared to the GSA. I hated the GSA with a passion a few months ago. I wanted the GS, but after riding the GS 4 times on test rides, I never got a wow factor from a GS. Its just a plodder. It does the job. I didnt want to stop riding it, but never had that wow factor. Then, I jumped on what I thought was one of the most ugliest bikes in the world, the scaffolding king of them all, the GSA! Gentlemen, I cannot tell you at how good this bike is. Its a WOW bike!!!!! If you ever have the chance to ride a GSA, I'll give you one massive tip. Put the bike in Dynamic mode for the power, & the suspension in road mode. It is the "Rolls-Royce" of motorbike suspension. The RT's suspension felt exactly the same as the big GSA, but with a more cramped seating position. The big GSA is 20kg heavier than a GS, but just pour 20 litres instead of 30, & you wont feel the extra 10 anyway. The tank is the only thing bigger compared to the GS, but the handlebars are still the same. It is intimidating when you look at a GSA if you haven't ridden one. I thought I could never ride one, how wrong I was. I really like the automatic screen on the RT, & I'm a little lost why the top-of-the-line GSA doesnt get it!!! Now if you plod along on your test ride, these two bikes are going to be very difficult to separate, bar the seating position with your legs. Yo need to ride them a little quicker, a bit like you've just stolen it! Ride them like your on your S1000RR, R1, Panigale, & pretend your on a sports bike. Then, & only then, will you distinguish the difference between bikes. I was once a "track Junkie" & bought a van to go to race tracks regularly. I was a one eyed, blinker wearing sports bike nut. Until I rode the GSA.............amen gents. Cheers groovers ;-)
I can't agree more!😉going for a test ride means testing it thoroughly...explore everything the bike has to offer and try riding it on a regular favorite ride so one can compare against own bikes ridden on same route. your comment deserves a highlight...🤔😎🏍
You've hit the nail on the head there. I've had 2 RTs followed by a GS and 2 GSAs and one of the major differences between the RT and the GS/GSA is that the RT has a more cramped riding position and if youre long in the leg with dodgy knees like me, the RT is painful to ride after a few hours in the saddle. If it wasnt for that, I would still be riding an RT because the wind protection is superior and you get the luxuries like the electric screen and heated seat. I'm guessing the reason why BMW dont offer those as options on the GS/GSA is, as TMF says, they would lose RT sales and possibly make the model unviable to manufacture. There is one other difference in my book. At high autobahn speeds I just dont feel that the GS/GSA is as planted as the RT. The GS/GSA just feels a little light at the front at these speeds and if I was doing a lot of autobahn/high speed miles, I'd definitely have the RT rather than the GS/GSA even with the more cramped riding position
@Moto Groover, Great Data, I have had all the bikes I really wanted. 996,998, BMW RT, Wing, all the GSXR's, Aprilia RSV 1000 R, then I bought a Super Tenere left over new for $12K . I liked them all but still needed a ZX10R 2015 to satisfy my need for a light high performance bike. Then only difference now is I trailer it long distance for some rides. The Super Ten I do long distance on and some off road. The GSA still eludes me due to cost.
@@Belindaxtz660 Yeah the missus got a bit tired in the end after 3 different bikes on the same bit of road. So I dropped her off back at the dealership for a coffee break whilst I tore the rear tyres off the bikes! I had the GSA 1250 up at 148kmh through twisties & had that feeling I was on a very tall sports bike. When I slowed down to about 98kmh, It then dawned upon me that I was on brand new rubber & had to scrub them in! Strewth!!! All 3 bikes had no more than 40 km total on them!! I loved all of them, but that suspension took the cake on the GSA. What a difference it made once I turned the wick up on them. The truth came out in spades. Cheers groover ;-)
@@mickfinn2596 Yeah I haven't experienced the very high speeds yet. Just picked her up from the first service, so the lights are finally green!!! Nudge, nudge, wink, wink! But I'd have to agree with you, as when I'm on the motorway doing between 110kmh to 140kmh, you can tell clearly the wind factor begins to dictate the posture of the whole bike. I actually questioned that point in my mind whilst riding, wondering what it would be like at 200+. I was truly gobsmacked at how well the RT handled. That huge front contraption you have when riding doesn't make you feel like its going to handle at all. In fact straight line riding is more the feeling you get at first. But once you dip her into the turn, I could've swore I was on a 600cc bike! & that was with the missus on the back!!! Strewth!!! And I'm comparing this type of handling with my ex '14 RSV4, ex '16 S1000RR, & all my lovely 90's GSXR's I tracked regularly. That is a big statement to make for a bike. Hats off to the RT. Cheers groover ;-)
The RT might be ugly, but the GS is close behind. Of course the ultimate reason I had to have the RT is the length of my legs. With the low seat and thick soled boots, the RT is still a hair too higher than I like, so the GS is out of the question. With that said, I am a touring rider and like my comforts and weather protection, the RT does that best. For long cold rides it is important to keep your legs out of the wind, and I was surprised how well the RT does that, as it doesn't look like it will do that as well as it does. The fairing and windshield do a great job too, it is more like driving a convertible than a motorcycle. I like it ! If I wanted to ride the dirt, I would get a real dirt bike, I have no desire to pull a 600 lbs. bike out of the mud and no need to just look like I would. Actually, I have taken my RT on dirt roads and find I can stand on the pegs quite comfortably. Would I buy a GS if my legs were longer? Nope, the RT is what I want in a bike, and when I was crossing South Dakota , I enjoyed listening to Jazz on the satellite radio too.
The GSA isn't really less weight than the RT. I just measured the weight of my saddlebags (2014 R1200RT) and they weigh 13.5 lbs apiece. Subtract that from the stated weight of the 1250 GSA and you end up within 8 lbs of the 1250 RT; that is the weight of the extra gallon of fuel the GSA carries. If you ride your RT without bags (like a bone stock GSA) there is no real difference.
I have watched most of you videos and I would say that based on how and where you ride the RT would seem to be the logical choice for you. The GS just seems to be the easy choice for too many riders. Many of them seem to be more in love with the bike lifestyle they infer, just like an HD does, than the riding itself. I used to teach photography and I see many similarities. It was often look at the camera I have rather than look at the photos I have taken.
Sorry Andrew but I have to disagree with you, you go anywhere in Europe during riding season and what do you see most of? BMW GS/GSA They are probably the most expensive option too, so why would people pay all that money, that's not exactly the easy thing to do is it? They are popular for a reason, I have owned 6 fireblades in the past 20 years and never ever thought I would ride a BMW adventure bike, been on one now for 5 years and I can honestly say it is the best 5 years of my biking life, it's taken me all over Europe, with more luggage than I ever needed, in absolute comfort, 300 plus miles on a tank of fuel, cruise control, etc. etc. Have you ever spent any time or done any distance on a GS? Try it then maybe like me you might just get it! I'm quite careful with my money but have just ordered a new GSA 1250, tried all the cheaper options 1st, but in my opinion nothing compares
@@firebladedan1 Yep you're right. Most are bought cos their mate has one. And their mate. And theirs. Baaaaaaaa! A lot is the Long Way Round effect and the fact that half the motorcycle media are owned by a German company so they daren't criticise it. Sure, they're great bikes, but most owners ignore their faults cos as you say, when you've paid that much money for a bike, it's had to admit to yourself it has any faults! SO they pretend it hasn't.
@DannyB: horses for courses of course and having owned and extensively toured on both a GSA LC and my current RT LC over the past 5 years (and with 3 vfrs - my previous favourite bike type- on SORN that will likely never be used again, I would partially disagree and say the RT is the better bike for serious touring. Its marginally stiffer and tracks better on good spanish, french and Swiss N roads and is more protective. The GSA is smoother and more comfortable on bad roads, is more comfortable if you are 6’5 or taller and gives a pseudo-confidence that on it you can go anywhere (of course 99% of all owners abilities incl mine are nowhere near to take that heavy monster anywhere but the smoothest gravel at 10mph- which the RT can do equally on those terms). And it has 50miles more range than the rt which again is irrelevant as very few people tour alone and fuel stops are defined by the least range in the group, so you stop anyway. And noone goes touring In Transiberian terms.
Another factor you might want to consider when you’re pondering this question. How old are you? If you’re higher mileage in age, the RT has comfort and convenience features that will have a strong calling and appeal to you. Your body will keep thanking you for the heated seats and grips, the push button windshield, the central locking system, side storage cases and that “ugly” (form follows function) fairing every time you mount the bike and go for a ride. I wrestled with this same question awhile ago (GSA or RT?) and the RT was my choice. So you probably guessed that I am a youth challenged person riding an Old Mans Bike. Right. And proud of it. The bike that is. If you’re younger or middle aged now and prefer the GSA, you might have a change of heart when you start knocking on the doors of the Golden Years of your life. If you’re younger or middle aged and prefer the RT, you’ve planned well for the future. So put me down for the RT - from a happy Old Guy on an Old Mans Bike. 🙃
I'm also fast approaching my bus pass, and am more than happy with the RT. I have two other friends of similar age, both of whom chose the RT. In all cases our better halves preferred being a passenger on the RT. So it looks like it really does suit us old fellas better. Also, my good lady isn't keen on me growing a beard, so I can't really embrace the Charlie Boorman image. ;-)
Sooty Beemer “Bus Pass” - LOL 😆. Luv it. 👍 I tried growing a mustache and/or beard several times but my better half gave me a tongue lashing every time so here I sit with no facial hair whatsoever. But having the RT puts me back in good standing all the time as she loves the pillion on it. OLD FARTS FOREVER!!!
33 years old and bought a 2019 R1250RT. Sold the Harley. When it comes to safety and comfort it was a no brainer. Not trying to fit in with any kind of motorcycle riders. Just love riding. 🤙🏻
STOPsign Age is just a number. Take a look at many of these top BMW Adventure schools and these guys are up there. Many of the men are well into their 50’s and 60’s. Rawhyde for one here in Texas in the States.
Easy to see what Police forces and Ambulance services prefer. RT is an ideal bike for them, does everything. See the way they throw them around, even at low speeds. If I could afford one, I'd have one.
Last 10 years I've gone thru 3 RTs (2 of the 1200 and one 1250) and 4 GSAs(3 1200 and one 1250)... After all that I am back on 2021 R1250RT currently. Even though I love GSA in many ways somehow RT has its own seductive appeal on me that lands one of them in my garage again. GSA is like a Jeep while RT feels like a two door sports car to me. Seriously though even I love GSA's versatility it makes me feel like I am not a 100% rider. Everytime I come to a stop on my GSA it feels like I get a little wobblier just before the full stop.. Yet, I can come to full stop on my RT and I could still balance the bike at full stop for a second or two before I put my feet down. RT is so well balanced that it makes you feel like you're an expert level rider. Your U turns becomes tighter and less wobblier or coming to full stop, slow parking speed maneuvers all become more stabilized compare to the ones you perform on a GSA. If I could afford more than one bike I'd still have a GSA in my garage in addition to my RT. But if only one bike I am kind of 50/50 or maybe 51/49 RT/GSA ratio... My '21 RT now has AM/FM?Sirius-XM installed too. Even though Motorrad Connected needs a lot of upgrades and improvements, 10.25" TFT looks good.
Curious why no one ever mentions the different rear drive gear ratios between the RT and GS. When I had my 2010 RT, commuting speeds of around 80 mph, it spun around 800 - 1000 rpm lower and felt much smoother than the GS. I would typically get around 50 mpg or better and my friend on a GS would only get low 40's mpg at 80 mph. I guess with the new water cooled and now shift cam engines maybe much smoother at higher rpm's. Just looked at the parts fiche and still is different PN's for the rear drive between the 2 with different ratios listed...not sure is the same 800 to 1000 rpm or so difference at same speed / top gear...
I tend to not wave or nod to GS riders any more because I never get said nod or wave returned. It's them not us with the problem. You are an exception though TMF. You're alright you are lol
Another great review TMF and one that will split your subscribers for sure in a healthy way though. Having tested both myself I went for the RT, here's why for what it's worth. The GSA is compromised on the road with the offroad large front wheel which I felt lacks the feel of conventional road size wheels especially if you're in a hurry. The RT has a wider choice of tyres. The GS is much more difficult to keep clean especially the spoke wheel versions. I often ride two up so the larger seat and adjustable screen helps. The RT comes with colour matched panniers so no need to fork out more on them. I happen to like the sound system available for the RT. Finally I didn't need to change my wardrobe, helmet or boots for the RT either ;)
Paul Harris totallyagree Paul. For me when I have ridden both bikes, the 17" inch front wheel on the RT makes a world of difference in improved handling versus the 19" wheel size on the GS/A's which feels a bit sluggish. For taller riders, I can see how the ergonomics could be better on the GS.
If you’re tall, I’m 6’2”, no contest! GSA every day. I have a 2018 GSA1200, my 3rd GS. It’s been to 20 countries and done 32000 miles. Last week I ordered my 4th, a Triple Black GSA 1250 - with a heated seat 😊
They both look great but I like being up high and upright position along with the long travel suspension that adventure bikes have, just soaks up anything and everything on the road.
I have tried all the new R1250s but the RT. However, few years back I got to ride a R1200RT AC for a day whilst my R1200R AC was in service. I was surprised how quickly the RT turns, I filtered quicker on the RT than my R. I think it was due to the rake angle. The new RT also has steeper rake than R. What's more was that I felt like Cpt Picard commanding the USS Enterprise! RT over GS any day!
Very thought provoking TMF , I,m actually picking up my new RT tomorrow after 4 yrs of GS ownership. Comfort and weather protection are the deciding factors, although I have grown to like the look of the RT over recent months. As you say, both great bikes.
In the States it's more BMW that has A BIT of a rep... the GS is just the most visible Beemer. Having said that... it's the HD guys who don't wave at anyone else (anyone who doesn't have an HD). As for the RT looks... IMO the bike looks "unbalanced" without a rider on it, the huge fairing makes the bike look like somewhat like a tadpole. Put a rider on one however (especially a bigger guy) and the bike starts to look quite good.
🙋🏻♂️ HD rider who obnoxiously waves at EVERYONE. Scooter riders wearing proper PPE included... Much to the chagrin of the Beemer guys in their KLIM suits.
Or...or...just maybe..."the RS"!? Have I missed it or will you be doing a R 1250 RS review? I can't helping thinking that that would be a serious contender. (I did search for "rs" but it throws up 1001 "wrong" hits...)
Sir Chop, have you ridden the RT at all ? I totally understand where you're coming from, as I was like that only months ago. The RT has handling like its a 600cc. I cant handle the cocoon feeling on this type of bike, as I believe riding should be "wind in your hair". Maybe in another 20 years aye? Luv ya vids! Cheers groover ;-)
The RT is a beautiful bike, it has a Suzuki VStrom look, and it is a handsome bike! I'll have to look at a RT but it might be out of my price range. But wow both bikes are very beautiful, and they're BMW's. Nice review friend! Good job.
My mate has christened my RT 'Dark Helmet'. Check out the film Spaceballs and you will get it 😁. Great bike though - I've done over 30000 miles, two up touring, solo touring, commuting & everything else on the 1200LC version. I've had the GS as a long term loaner, but for me the RT is a better bike. Nice vid as always 👍🏻
I had an RT but thought it was a bit cramped on the knees unless I had the seat at its highest but then it was a bit too tall as I'm only 5'8 too. Mine was an 1150 tho so it may be different. I'm looking forward to buying a new to me 1200 GS as I can't afford a 1250 🤣🤣
I had a 2018 RT and sold it because I found it too cramped. I loved the bike but couldn’t do the longer miles. So no I don’t think the riding position has been improved and I personally think it’s a flaw on a touring bike.
Given the choice I think I'd go for the R1250RS, as I prefer the sporty looks. I'm not particularly bothered about having acres of wind protection but just enough to make a journey less tiring, afterall it's a motorbike and feeling the breeze is what it's all about.
Would love to see a review of the new R1250RS and the comparison between RS, RT and GS. I am a GS owner but have always like the look of the RS, but having never ridden one I have no idea if I would like it as much as my GS. There never seems to be any demo bikes to try where I live. TMF over to you - 1250 RS review please!
Bunter1815 pity, as I was really looking forward the the new bike. That said I loved the looks of the 1200 RS. Marmit I know with the squint eye thing, but by far the best looking bike out of the RT, GS and RS
i love the RT concept, I have a R100RT and had the K version... that being said Im 6'4" ~ 193cm with long legs. the ergos for tall people on the current RT's suck, I ride a gsa , far more comfortable on 6 to 8 hour rides, even my r100gs is more comfortable on log distance than my former r1200rt.
2012 RT rider here. The front fairing on mine doesn't seem to look as bulbous as the new one but it wouldn't put me off riding the new one. All that being said, I'll keep my 2012. It suits me perfectly. Enjoyed your reviews.
If you don't use a GS off road then the RT is a far better choice for touring, including it has a much lower seat hight. Personally I'd want the K 1600 GT.
I am an RT man through and through.The GS and GSA are excellent bikes built for a multi purpose roll.The RT is a pure road bike that out handles any GS or GSA on the road.The reason the RT handles so well is of course a 17" front wheel as opposed to a 19" on the GS. If you own a GS or GSA with wire wheels,the difference in handling is even more pronounce.The wire wheels are built for off road use,they are strong and flexible.The flexibility of the wire wheels is the main reason the GS's loose out on the road,to the RT with cast wheels, which have no flexibility so they provide a more precise,pin sharp handling. The RT is smoother to ride because it has a heavier flywheel. Choosing between the GS or the RT,is like asking fellow bikers which is the best oil or which is the best tyre.You pays your money,you takes your choice,they are both brilliant.
I'd happily own either of these bikes, but bearing in mind the costs involved I might also be considering the R1250RS, which sits nicely between the out and out tourer (RT) and the more off road biased GS. After 40 years of riding and more than twenty different bikes, my experience is that logical choices play a relatively small part of choosing a bike. We ride bikes because we love doing it and the bikes we choose are the ones that stir the soul rather than tick all the boxes. I use my bike to ride to work and for a few long journeys and traded in my eminently suitable Africa Twin for a CB1100RS, hardly a rational choice! For that matter, everytime I visit my nearby Indian dealership and look at the Indian Chief Dark Horse in the show room, I want to own one more than any other bike, despite knowing it would be entirely unsuitable for my needs. But that's what motorbiking is all about passion not logic!
Firstly I must declare that I own a GS Rallye and I love it and I prefer the looks and the colour scheme. With regard to that waving thing - I used to be a waver (or nodder) but now with the amount of traffic here in the South East I am usually to busy trying to stay safe to let a moments distraction creep into my riding. So to all the other riders I might pass down here in the SE I apologise. I'm not being off but I am just too busy hanging on and avoiding all the other road users.......🙌👍
Great review again Mr TMF! I love both bikes. In the event that a BMW ended up living in my garage I would go with the GSA. I agree that 95% of my riding would be on tarmac. I like the ergonomics of the GSA better especially the seat to peg dimension. My second factor is that with the GSA when you are on tour and hit road construction or a truly crap road surface you have the ability to stand up and ride (also nice for just stretching old legs and back). Final consideration is looks. I LOVE the GSA’s looks. Especially in the Exclusiv spec with the Kalamata Metallic paint scheme. Thanks for the thought provoking video! Peace!
Both Beemers are great kit if used for what they are made and marketed for. The GS gives you an off road option so it has to get the vote over the RT. Then you are in Multistrada and KTM territory. 1st world probelms hey gents. Can I just say on the off road question. Granted you will get people who will sneer at you for not taking the GS off road. Whatever the reason you enjoy the bike that's all that matters. And that's your business. If you owned a Ferrari Testarossa and drove it across the Sahara instead of up n down the Cote D'Azur thats okay too. The bulk of sportsbike owners are not gonna enter the TT or NW500 but its ok for them to enjoy just popping the shops on. Why should adventure bike owners get flak for doing the same. Lets all nod to each other based on the brotherhood of motorcycling not brand.
Hey Kid! Great new vid. Am a K1600GT owner, but still think the R1250RT is absolutely beautiful!! I know, i know, matter of opinion... :-) Keep them great vids coming!! Love it! Would also like to see an indepth side by side comparison by you on GT vs RT!
I first tried a GS when the first 1200’s were launched and quite liked it. Way out of my price range at the time so I stuck with my VFR800fi. Twelve years on and several bikes (Kawasaki ZXR750, ST1100, Triumph Tiger 1050, FJR1300) later it was time to dump the great lump that is the FJR so I took a R1200RS out for a spin. Very tempted but the riding position wasn’t quite right. The salesman pointed me at a GS and suggested I try it. Very reluctantly I did. The image, y’know. You know what? To hell with the image problem. What a fine bit of kit. It felt like the best bits on my Pan and Tiger were thrown into a package and updated by 20years. I’ve owned it two years and continue to enjoy riding it. Why not try the RT? My good lady thought it looked horrid 😂
I had a similar experience with a Kawasaki ZZR1400. Was riding a Honda NC750, went and test rode a Verysys 650 and for a laugh had a go on a ZZR1400. I bought the ZZR there and then....Just goes to show bikes can be so deceptive....
RT rider here, I've owned an '88, '04 and the current is a '14. I've never ridden a GS and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable holding it up with my 29" inseam and the wife on the back. The GS looks uglier than the RT in my mind.
I moved from the RT to an XR last year. Mainly because I was commuting into central Bristol and I got so annoyed by how much harder it was to filter on the RT - although you wouldn’t believe the stick I got from the RT owners club I got for saying that!! The only reason I didn’t get a GS is because I wanted to try some different bikes before the eventual migration to what is probably the most practical all rounder bike available (I.e. the GS). I know the GS is probably the best, but everybody seems to have one and my Mrs won’t let me have more than one bike at a time!! I want to try a Thunderbird first.
I've currently got both an XR and an RT and the RT has been my go to bike. There is nothing the XR can do that the RT can't (in the real world), which has led me to the decision now of getting rid of my XR as for me the RT is the better bike.
I have an R1200GSA LC, my wife an R1200R LC and I have good friends with R1200RTs and R1200RSs (all LC) so I have been lucky enough to compare the different versions quite often. I would assume that the characteristics between the various models transfers to the 1250 as well..... My comments comparing the Adventure to the RT are: 1. First up, I never cease to be impressed by how BMW have used the same driveline to create versions that are so completely different to each other, each with their various pros and cons as well as character. 2. On that note, the "feel" of the two is completely different. The RT is quiet, smooth and refined. My Adventure, however, pops and farts and most definitely has a louder (standard) exhaust. The R1200R and RS are somewhere in between. 3. I'm a touch over six foot and have lanky legs, so straight off, the Adventure is way more comfortable for me (I can flat foot it with the seat on the highest setting). The RT feels very cramped by comparison and becomes uncomfortable (for me) very quickly. I dare say that shorter riders would have a different opinion between the two on this matter! 4. There is no doubt that winter protection on the RT is superior but the Adventure performs better than most fully faired bikes (once aftermarket hand guard extensions are fitted) so isn't far behind at all. However, when summer comes around, the RT loses out, as it is just so hard to get decent airflow. Then again, it does have better bodywork under the rider's backside on the RHS to deflect engine heat away. On the Adventure (and my wife's R), scorchingly hot air is pumped out in this spot, all but frying the underside of one's right thigh. On days over 40 degrees this becomes just crazy. In rain, this airflow means water is instead pushed out this area, soaking one's right leg very quickly indeed (we have made our own plastic deflectors/sidecovers which help solve this). 5. The great advantage of a good adventure bike like the GS is that it still performs flawlessly on below par roads. English roads are beautifully surfaced, smooth and generally well maintained. Other countries are not so lucky. To be pushing a GS swiftly on a nice winding road only to have a well hidden bump or pothole suddenly appear on line barely affects it. The RT, whilst still very good isn't as good in this regard. 6. If you ever ride on dirt roads, well it's a no brainer (although I agree with the MF that a high proportion of GS riders don't even know what unsealed road looks like.....) That's my take. I don't say the Adventure is a better bike than the RT, it just suits me and my riding better. Both are wonderful bikes and mile-munchers supreme, yet so very different to each other.
There's no doubt that BMW have built a superb tourer, and if I could borrow one for 2 weeks every year to do a 2000+ mile euro-tour, that'd be great (can I, please BMW UK??). However, I think the bike-buying public make their purchases more with their hearts, or certainly how we feel about bikes plays a big part in what we buy. For me, while I respect the hell out of BMW for building this bike, I'm not sure I'd ever buy one because it's missing that element that makes me want to jump on and head for the twisties...even though I bet it'd be great! Liked the video by the way...Cheers!
Once again, nice video. And some good points. From my side, I owned the Honda ST1300 and loved it. I went everywhere on it, mostly camping. Then a couple of years ago I changed and got the BMW R1200 GSA. Again I love it and will keep it. But I still love the ST 1300 but my reason for changing was that with the GSA I can now throw on my tent and a load of other thing and tie them down. I could not do that really on the ST without wandering if I was going to scratch the plastic or not. The added bonus of having the crash bars on the GSA takes away that worrying feeling of what if I ever dropped the ST and have to fork out a ton of money for new plastic. I have been off road and I will again. But I mostly ride on road and over here in Sweden, bikers don't care what bike you have. I am touring Europe in September and again that added feeling that if I drop the GSA on the tour doesn't worry me. If I did it on the ST I´m sure it would. Plus I like that you can upgrade the GSA and make it your own with the help of companies like Touratech.
As a previous owner of K1200s, K1600gt & R1200r classic and presently a RS I'd say the RS cuts the middle ground of them all and is my favourite. As an everyday bike it's fantastic. It may not be as fast as the K12 but it's still plenty fast (hoping the 1250 brings out the beast more). It may not be as long distance a mile muncher as the K16 but will happily do a day's touring with almost as much luggage space. If you fancy a bit of corner carving the RS is well up for it, giving great confidence, and feels like the sport tourer it truly is. If you only have the space for one bike in your life the RS ought to be on your short list if you need an all rounder which will tour, commute and do some sport stuff.
I am on my 2nd RT now and i think the handling is the best of any bike ive ever ridden. My lass who really does not like going on the bike but does just to be with me some times says it feels safe and secure and that makes her feel comfortable while being nervous at the same time. It suits my riding style and makes me smile being on it, Music on riding along totally relaxed. Your right though it was 21k with the inner bags and comfort screen so bloody pricey for a bike and its only now im mortgage free i can have a new one. Off round Europe for two weeks in June so real touring comfort will be tested then. My 1st RT was the 2010 Twin cam and that was a really good bike but the LC version is a step up so i bet the new 1250 will be better again.
Assuming you're not interested in venturing off the tarmac both bikes are as near as dammit identical in terms of their ability to tour. The differentiator is image. The GS is "dad jeans" and the RT is "dad jeans" but with an elasticated waist. Also if you want a conventional tourer the Kwak Z1000SX Tourer makes the RT look so overpriced!
Neither one. You should consider a FJR since you've never had a ride on one. The seat height is more suited to your size, only 805mm. Feet flat on the ground. Handles superbly with prodigious power output. Tracks like it is on rails. Has EVERY comfort and convenience amenity. Cost less to buy and service. Reliability is legend. Does not sound like the GS tractor engine. Keep the older GS. It's still good.
I have done a fair few miles on both the standard GS and the RT models from 2008 through to the twin cam (pre-water cooled models). Both bikes handle much better than you would believe looking at them and both are very well put together, however the GS is the clear winner for me. The GS is lighter and feels much more nimble and is the better handling bike of the two. I know exactly what you mean about the pressure on your back when the screen on the RT is raised which I don’t like, and the GS doesn’t have that problem. I’ve owned two GS’s and they truly are jacks of all trades, I have done everything from touring to track days with ease. For me personally I question the RT’s possible advantages: 1. bigger fairing - I don’t find the GS fairing an issue, and there’s less likely to be expensive broken plastic if it gets dropped or goes down the road. 2. electric screen - I don’t need an electric screen and find the GS one stays in the bolt upright position, and works fine without adjustment. 3 two equal large panniers - The standard GS has the advantage of vario panniers that keep the bike slimmer until you need the extra space. 4. a stereo - Nowadays you can listen to an IPod or listen to music stored on the satnav with a Bluetooth or wired headset. 5. Heated seat - I’ve never found it was something that bothered me, but I could get an aftermarket option if it did. 6. The larger 25L tank on the RT over the standard GS 20L tank is nice, but as I get older I like to have a brief stop every few hours anyway. At the end of the day you pay your money and you make your choice, both are great bikes.
The wind protection of the RT might be a problem when you ride with warm weather. Here in Italy, riding an RT in July or August with 38 degrees can become a nightmare (particularly if you use leather jacket)!
Interestingly I've read some articles on this, given that I live in Australia where summer temps can climb into the 40ºC's and it would appear that once the temperature goes above 33.5ºC, the effect of a hot wind blast on your body is to heat you up by convective heating, rather than by evaporative cooling. The hottest I've ridden on a bike was 32ºC - and on a naked bike. Even then it was unbearable - time for a car and A/C methinks. Of course if one is on a tour, you have no choice, but in theory at least, a vented suit behind the screen of an RT should keep you more comfortable in extreme heat than a similar suit behind the less wind protected screen of a GS/GSA.
I recalled being called “sir” at a local burger joint when I happened upon the establishment on my newly acquired GS, that confirmed the old geezers bike reputation in the US.
I own a GSA but hired an RT for a 2 week 2 up trip though the European Alps last year. I agree with your conclusion however another interesting difference was the gearing ratio. I found the RT 1st and 2nd gear range (incl. quick shift down to first gear) really useful through the twisties.
@@TheMissendenFlyer In which case, GS all the way! Although not my cup of tea to ride, I do think that the GS looks genuinely good, whilst the RT has one of those faces only a mother could love!
Interesting musings TMF....the RT comes with panniers included....extra on the GSA I believe so there's 1500 quidish there. As for kudos and nod counts....get the KTM Superadventure ...they all nod....provided you're not going so fast they don't see you ;-)
The stigma thing ... too many folk think that a GS is a pure "off road" bike ... when in fact, it's every bit the road bike as the RT is .. I prefer the riding position and high up view of the road ahead that the GS gives you ...
I changed from a GSA to RT last year, I have always ridden adventure style bikes and I must admit i do miss my GSA. However, my wife prefers the RT as a pillion and has started coming away with me more on the bike. I also find the RT an easier bike to get on and off, it probably inspires a bit more confidence especially with a pillion as you can get your feet down flat on the floor. Another thing I find better on the RT apart from the obvious wind protection, is it's a quieter bike to ride. I always found the GSA to have a noisy front end. The biggest downside of the RT, I find at 6'2" the leg position is a little cramped. They are both brilliant bikes, but I think I will return to an Adventure style bike one day, I don't think it will be a GS or GSA due to the high cost.
I have been on the fence over these same 2 bikes. However recently have been leaning more and more towards the GSA. I will break the stigma of ownership as I wave at all makes and models and pretty much love to talk to people soooooo... Thanks for the great comparo on these 2 fabulous machines but that 1250 GSA Exclusive really has me thinking.
@@renovation5093 I've got about 1000 songs on the Nav 6 so that keeps me going for a while,or just plumb the radio into my headset,I wasn't keen on everyone hearing what Im listening to when I'm at the lights,and to be fair the audio is pretty much just a noise over 50-60 even with the screen up
There are some major differences between these two bikes which can be significant for some. If you are tall, I'm 6' 4", you will find the rider triangle cramped on the RT compared to the GS, where due to the extra ground clearance the pegs are lower, relative to the seat and where there is also plenty of room to use lowered pegs without any danger of scraping them or hitting your feet on the ground. The second big thing for me is the suspension, I have an R1200gs Rallye with the sports suspension, 20mm taller and stiffer sprung, I believe that's the adventure suspension essentially. With the ever deteriorating road surfaces I seem to encounter, 10" of suspension travel with the self adjusting preload and damping of the ESA makes such a difference to the ride comfort, much easier on the spine and rear end with no hard jolts. I have a road orientated older BMW and the bike is fantastic and my newer GS in many ways is only marginally improved, but for my size and use the GS riding position and suspension are huge winners. Where I live the weather is also hot and dry in the summer and so less, is more, in terms of weather protection, so the GS screen and less bodywork is in part why I didn't get a GSA and would also go against an RT for me, I need all the airflow I can get, but like enough of a screen to just keep the air pressure off my head and torso for relaxed high speed cruising.
If you want to be Ewan or Charlie you buy the GS. That is the reason why the GS suffers from the image it has, bang on some aluminium cases and you are set for a long way round. Harley suffers in the same regard, get some tattoos and you are a bad ass. Good thing or bad it is an image that builds up over time but there has always been the old joke of, go for a ride with BMW riders and at least you can use the urinals because BMW riders sit down to piss. 😂😂😂😂
GS is more versatile whereas the RT is more focused on a single purpose. Both are quite a bit different in terms of suspension travel, steering angles, trail, wheel size and wheel base etc, agree you'd need to test ride both to work out what suits. Cheers :-)
Gs a bike spoilt by a minority of people who look down their noses at other riders why I do not know....the no waving no chatting to other riders is purely a individual thing ...gs's' by and large are everywhere so again that may put people off...cheers from dave...
I’d have to agree with you there mate. I have a S1000XR here in Australia and recently met up with some GS riders the other day. Yep, ignored by all of them 😂
I'm not your average rider as I didn't own a car for quite some years (well in case of emergency I used our camper when I really need four wheels), but other than that it's 2wheels only. So I used to have two bikes, one to commute and one for fun. As you can guess: an RT to commute and a GSA for fun. As I'm retired now, the RT is gone. But I guess I can still compare them. The RT is a really good commuter, as was the K1600 GT I owned somewhere along the line. But when you're riding for fun (which still is 25 k km annually as opposed to the 55 k when I was still working), the GS(A) is more fun. Also the RT is a bit more vulnerable and loading up with tents and the like, scratches them fairly easily. When I had the K1600 (I really loved that one, though it was expensive to own, I made a small mistake, riding it like I do the GSA. When I was parked on the sidewalk, I rode it back towards the road and heard a loud noise when the exhausts got dented, due to lack of ground clearance. The GSA is rather indestructible and as it is higher too, for a tall guy like me, it's also less stress on the knee's. The wife rides a GS too, factory lowered, and she loves it, she came from an R1200R and never wanted a GS, so I took her for test rides on the factory lowered GS and she was sold immediately. Maybe when I get old (now 66), I need a lower bike and will get me an RT again. Also the fun of off-road riding is a point. I rode the K1600 on gravel roads in Norway and well was a challenge :) I still have to decide if the next one should be a GS HP or the GSA also in that style, I'm not sure which one I should choose. But that's not until next year when this 2017 hits the 100 k km mark.
The GS/Harley thing is the same as range rover or Apple. It's the go to model for people who have the money but not so much the passion of say someone on a 2k bike held together with luck and love. People that skim over the culture which all of us have involved ourselves in a culture that requires a fair sense of community. So it doesn't go well when someone actively sneers at you (sadly has happened to me) for simply extending a nod. Like all things it's the little minority that create a stereotype for all. Everyone on two wheels wouldn't turn down a GS they're the end goal for a lot of us. I'd have the GS over the RT I'd buy the RT if the misses wanted me to get a car 😁
It's defo a minority ... and id say it's the traditional die hard beemer riders of old.... the demographics of BMW as a brand has changed massively over the last decade. I've been riding since I was 6 years old, had track bikes, a plethora of litre sportsbikes...lived the dream in my 20's ... I'm almost 39 now but I've had a GS since 2012 ! Just got fed up of chasing revs and going flat out everywhere .. always toured Europe so the GS was the natural progression ... after I'd flirted with a Tiger 1050 ... Now, there's no bike id rather be on 👍🏼
Great you brought this up. It was a Dillema for me for some time...Same engine, same gearbox, same shaft drive, same frame ? 19" front wheel on GS and off road styling. 17" front wheel on RT and tourer styling. RT gets panniers as standard GS you have to pay for panniers...why ? Performance is pretty much identical but better aerodynamics on the RT give better efficiency at speed. Longer travel suspension on GS soaks up bumps better but feels a bit light at the front when pushing along. Conclusion: GS is the SUV version of the RT and Bmw have nailed the image. The RT is the ubiquitous international police / paramedic and Tour de France bike. So they are both the same bike but they are not. The argument will never cease. The naked version of both of these, the R1250R, is the original Dna... I just love my recently acquired 2017 RT. I would also love a Munch Mammoth ( remember that bike in Top Trumps, awsome ! ) but simply could not afford one... Please review the 1250R
Trouble is that Honda /Yamaha etc dealers are very reluctant to give anything like a reasonable price for a BMW on a trade in so if you buy one you are pretty well tied to the brand. Just too much cost/loss involved for me as a really good bike can be had for half the money, or even two!
Both good bikes. I think the RTs fairing is too big and makes the bike look too heavy. Plus for me the GS would be cheaper to fix if dropped. As for the identity politics thing, a lot of nonsense. Just get a bike and ride.
I have never previously owned a motorcycle which gives me so much pleasure whether on a long trip or commuting in traffic. Its not the badge, not the GS logo, its the total ownership thing which is just so superior to any other bike I have owned. Easy to compare price, specs, warranty, looks etc, but the Feel-good factor of riding my GS places it in a league apart. Those that own a GS know. Those that don't, don't. interesting though, that RT owners are not so passionate and are potentially also Goldwing or HD owners. Why is this I wonder? Consider this you non-GS critisers, how come the GS is the world's best selling motorcycle? RT sales don't get anywhere near. If only I had been a motoraad salesman.
interesting point. i've had an RT for 9 years years. love it on long trips. but something was missing. the feel good factor. i'm in the market for new. cant' decide between a GS or new RT, this helps
A great comparison video and beyond the 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' thing, it's I suppose horses for courses. However not mentioned is a key difference that 'short-arse' people might wish to consider namely the far lower seat option on the RT compared with the GS/GS Adventure. For the GS you have: 800mm - Extra Low / Low Suspension 820mm - Low Seat 850mm - Standard Seat 870mm - High / Comfort 890 mm - Extra High / Rallye Seat For the GS Adventure you have: 820 / 840mm (790 / 810mm (Accessory Low Seat)) - Extra Low / Low Suspension 870 / 890mm - Low Seat 890 / 910mm - Standard Seat 880mm - Low Rallye Seat 900mm - High Rallye Seat But for the RT you have: 760/780mm - Low Seat 805/825mm - Standard Seat 830/850 - High Seat / Comfort Seat Wunderlich also do a simple wheel accessory that brings the seat down to 750mm. This could be a deal breaker for some!
As has also been mentioned, going for the low suspension on the GS/GSA will result in less suspension travel - thus negating some of the alluded to earlier magic carpet ride of a GSA. I don't think one needs to always be able to flat foot a bike with both feet on the ground; one foot flat on the ground plus the other on a peg is usually enough, but i wouldn't feel safe on such a tall bike with both feet only on tippy toes - it would have to the balls of both feet as a safety minimum for such a weighty machine.
BMW R1200GS Adventure But is the gsa twice as good as a At If you use your af off road then you are saying you don’t want to use the gsa off road. Could this be because it cost too much to use off road. And that is why to me the af is better.
....bought the Demo GS Rallye and saved $4000. Resale much better than Honda, and better on street. I have Husky 450fe for off. Can't compare to 1000cc off road.
A few years ago I was in the market for a new bike the GS Adventure was what I wanted but on borrowing a friend's one , I found that I could barely reach the ground on it, even though it was fitted with the low saddle, but if I had to stop on an incline or uneven part of the road I was in trouble, so I bought the RT the older air-cooled version a bike I now love and still have, I'm not a fan of the nose on the new RT's still great bikes though, as for the stigma yes you get it with the RT too a lot of riders don't salute back, strangely enough a lot of traffic cops do though , great videos mate really enjoy them
The GSA is butt ugly to me, what is that beak looking thing that sticks out of the front of it? It has wire wheels which I don't care for either. Personally I would not own either one of them. Like Ducati the cost of ownership is excessive which could be said for most European bikes. I started riding in 1964 and have had over 75 motorcycles, to me it's hard to beat the reliability of a Japanese bike not to mention cost of ownership. I rode a friends BMW " boxer engine" touring bike and personally I don't see the attraction, engine vibes and the clunkiest transmission I have experienced. Well you asked!
I see the point you make about the looks of the GS and I understand it. But when I saw the first 1200GSA I've never been able to stop thinking about it. I never did dare to try one out - because what if it didn't live up to my expectations. I startet out on a Honda VT750 cruiser. Changed that out for Honda CBF600SA primarily for commuting to work. Had that for 6 years and rode about 50.000km on it and loved every day on it. I took two years without a bike (big mistake BTW) and in 2017 I bought a Kawasaki Versys 1000 (the ugly one ;-)) and boy oh boy that was fun to ride. It felt amazingly fast and I could throw that thing around the corners like nothing I've ever tried before. Last year the wife had a meltdown (as far as I can figure) and asked me to go try that GSA. I did and for the short test ride I had on it I was convinced I couldn't live without it. The low center gravity, the brute torque, I for one LOVE the looks. I went home and slept on it and bought it the next day. I've had it for almost a year now and ridden about 10.000km on it. There's a lot of tech on it, and I've changed the Tank-strip once already (on guarantee though) but It's the best choice I've done. You mention the clunky gear - Yes the GS also has a clunky first, but in comparison to the Kawasaki it's barely noticable. The kawa almost jumped 10cm every time I put it in first, and the clutch was pain. The Honda's definitely got my vote on reliability but on the Fun factor the Kawa (speed and accelleration) and GS (brute torque and comfort) wins.
@@Kurkess almost all big bikes have a first gear clunk but that boxer clunked in every gear. The best shifting bike I have even owned is a Concours 14 and I have had three, the zx14 shifted great also....
As usual, thank you for posting. Great video. If you don't mind, I would like to add two points to your video. First, is the climate where the rider lives. From the UK, having the RT would be a benefit (as you mentioned) due to the cooler climate, but also one must consider riding in hot weather. I have ridden my GS in temperatures as low as 15F (-9C) and at above 100F (38C) in relative comfort. The RT might protect too well at the higher temperatures (I could be wrong). Second is the possibility of passengers. I think it would be fair to say (at least where I live), that you are most likely see passengers in an RT than in a GS. I enjoyed this video very much. Thanks for listening.
stigma? must be a GB thing. In the US mommies in Lululenons drive the behemoth US equivalent of Range Rover to fetch groceries to look “not dorky” compared to mini vans or Volvo wagons. I think a lot of the guys buy GS for the same reasons vs. RT.
The GS ticks all the boxes and throws in rough road/off road capability as standard. The RT just ticks boxes and suffers in looks IMO. You see the GS and think “C’or that’s a bloody nice machine. Look at that Boxer engine!” On the otherhand the RT gets a “Call Greenpeace! There’s a beached whale with barnacles on it’s head flailing about town!”
I would choose the GS - although not the GSA. I prefer the looks and the (probably only a perception) added "ruggedness". As for the stigma of riding a BMW... who cares?
How about the cost of servicing? From my experience with GoldWings and BMW K100RT and also two GS BMW’s, found that the extra cost of removing and refitting the fairings at service time made the service costs significantly over the more naked bikes. Much choice may come down to personal height and ease of getting a leg over the saddle and luggage.
Mark,that's not the case.I currently own a 2018 rt,which I have had from new.6000 miles service at my local BMW dealer cost me just £225.My 2014 GS for the same service at the same dealership cost £215. I can remove all the tupperware from my RT,in just over 35 minutes.I wouldn't Call £10 extra,significant.
I dont have so much money so I orderd the Suzuki 1000 XT and I like those gold rims like on GS. I like the style of adventure bikes. Father in law was responsible when he bought a new old 1200 GS few months ago for me to come back on a bike after 5 years. Grettings from Slovenia.
I've owned a number of GSs, not the GSA as I think they look ugly. I then moved to an XR for something different, and although a great bike, it wants to be revved and ridden hard all the time. I started to miss the Boxer engine and so, as I always found the GS too tall for me (on tiptoes with low seat option), I tried the RT. Aside from some occasional filtering issues it is the right bike for me - Boxer engine, long distance tourer, and a scratcher in the twistes. Despite it size, it is shockingly agile in the twisties that it tends to shock many sportsbike riders I've ridden with. So for me its a no brainer, the XR is going as I don't need it - the big RT does it all.
Had a Gs , great bike but sold to build and reliability issues, maybe I was unlucky, now have a v strom 650 new £7500 with all the bits and luggage, I do the same things as I did on the gs, it’s lighter, cheaper and I think bulletproof and in the real world all the power you need and more in my opinion. Had choice b the GS and I nod to every biker Great video missenden again !!!
I have a 2016 RT, brilliant bike. After having it for 18 months and realizing the type of riding that I'm doing, it's sort of doesn't make sense for me. RT is a mile muncher and I just don't tour very often. I think it's been about three years since I did a multi-day ride and that was on a Victory Judge (cruiser), which did the job wonderfully. Probably gonna let the RT go sometime this year. Let somebody else take it to do what I feel it is best designed for, lots of miles from coast to coast. What to replace it with? We shall see. Versys 650? VStrom 650? 750GS? 750X? Decisions, decisions... Yes, all those are different levels of Adventure bikes but all are good solid bikes, with decent power, good weight and excellent ergonomics. Open for suggestions. Great VLog rant as always TMF. Cheers!
Lol, Triumph Exploder that made me titter :). From a personal point, it's the GS every time over the RT, having had the F800ST, K1300S and a R1200GS LC (TE) for over 4 yrs. That tells me everything, a bike that will go anywhere, do anything, it's just down to the skill and desire of the rider. Unfortunately the RT just doesn't have the same appeal to me. Also, it's harder to filter on an RT....
