To freefloat or not to freefloat has been a much discussed topic for decades, and few folks really know the answer. The ones who do know are keeping it to themselves! Learn the simple truth here.
As a gunsmith for several years this fellow at times makes me feel like I dont know a damn thing. Even topics covered in my classes he expands on in much greater detail. A true hidden gem.
Back in the mid '70s, I free-floated my brand-new Rem 700 ADL .30-06, but I also used an Acruglass bedding kit to bed the receiver solidly. The results were a really accurate off-the-shelf hunting rifle that has maintained its accuracy over the years from the deserts to Alaska.
In the 53 years since I bought my first rifle, and having owned and extensively shot ''about'' 300 rifles (plus a LOT of firearms 'on loan' from Uncle Sugar), I've found that the single best answer about whether or not to free float is a resounding maybe. The trick, as far as I've found, is to let that barrel vibrate in a consistent, repeatable manner. Sometimes that does mean floating, other times, it needs to be brought under control, and sometimes, it needs a quite 'heavy handed' approach, meaning full length, full contact bedding. . Forget the rule that says "if it ain't broke, fix it till it is"! BTW, I have enjoyed hearing your perspectives, and for the most part, I concur 100 percent! Thanks.
I agree. I have a model 700 classic in 264 win mag that never shot that great after the first few shots. They would string out up & left.. I finally got mad and figured I would try sanding off the pressure pad up front and if it didn't work i would have it full length bedded or restocked or both. Well, that did the trick and I couldn't be happier. I can drive 5 shots into a dime sized hole now w/o having to let my barrel cool down for extended times between shots.
Sir I’m a young hunter, just turned 23 and watching your videos takes me back to my childhood in some way, my father and I used to hunt together when I was a young kid and we’ve since not been together much, king story short your videos and the knowledge you share are not only informative but comforting and nostalgic in its own way.
You are a great Teacher. I thank you for that, from a long distance admirer wishing you the best of health to you and Family including Mr. Benny.😉 /.. God Bless..!
Everytime I watch one of your videos I feel like I'm sitting in front of my Grandfather, wide eyed and wanting to soak up as much wisdom as I can. I find myself here more and more all the time. I just wanted to say thanks for that.
Thank you for that bedding video! My son in law bought a used model 77 Ruger stainless steel 30.06 but somebody literally threw a laminated stock at it! It was terrible and couldn't shoot a group period. I ordered the same 3m epoxy you used and beaded the action to an inch up the barrel and developed a load for it and now I have shot .750 " groups consistently and have shot some .500 inch groups! Before I did this you could see a mark inside the stock where the barrel was rubbing the stock and when you closed the bolt the bolt handle would hit the wood before it was completely closed. Now my son has a tack driver and I have other people begging me to do the same to their rifles but i'm not particularly interested in going into business. Thank you for helping me turn a sows ear into a silk purse!
In early 90’s I had exact same results from freefloating my Rem 721 .222 Rem Mag. I thought I ruined it until I bedded the action. You’re a wealth of knowledge- thanks for posting
I’m a big fan of your channel, I learn a lot. I grew up close to P.O. Ackley, he taught me about barrel building and ballistics. I have 2 of his rifles built for me. The first one is a .257 Roberts and the second one is a 7x57 Mauser as a tribute to Bell. Your style of instruction reminds me P.O. I used his style of teaching as an instructor for UPRR teaching conductors and engineers.
Your mentioning Husqvarna brought back an old memory. I had hunting friends back in high school and every one that got a rifle always got one chambered in 06. Oh I was 140lbs in my socks and was asked by many to sight in their rifles. ( zero the scope). One had a Husqvarna that after every shot I had to pull my hat up from over my eyes. After the 4 th or 5th time straightening my hat , I handed the owner his rifle saying you zero it. Im thru with that thing. Lol
I stumbled into a fine Husqvarna 30-06 built in the early 1960's about 15 years ago. I was looking for a backup rifle in case I had a problem with my primary while travelling for a hunt. Immediately, it was sub-moa with factory ammo. It quickly became my primary rifle because it's such a well made (pre-64 Win. quality) rifle. Since then, I picked up a couple in .270 Win and a couple more in 30-06. They've all had excellent accuracy. I've thought of glass bedding them, but they're so accurate I don't know that there's anything to gain? GunBlue, thanks for the excellent videos. I'm not even a dog owner, but enjoy seeing a beautiful Brittany - especially Benny! Lol, I've said a lot of prayers for your dog. God bless!
Great video. I love your mechanical knowledge when it comes to rifles. 2 point bedding is the only way to go. I'm also glad you brought up the Ruger m77 and also explained how you messed up the accuracy you were getting with your model 70. BTDT. That is how you learn and you demonstrate your very keen knowledge very well. Thanks for this video, as it explains in detail what a lot of guys don't get.
Rifles that come to my shop to tune for folks it's one of the first things I check because if it's touching hard anywhere your tuning can be just a waste of components and time. As well as all the stocks I inlay and finish including both my 1000yd competition bench rifles obviously. I do the same with Ruger 77's as you I like to bed 2" past the lug. I have a 264win long range hunting rifle with a 30" MTU Contour I built with a Ruger 77 action I blue printed. I bed that one to the forend tip since that particular stock had deep clearance so what I did was used electrical tape 3 prices thick around the barrel so after the devcon steel putty epoxy (what I use) dried I had perfect clearance. I have read people saying there model seven Remingtons only shoot good with 8lbs pressure on the barrel at the fore end tip but have never found that to be the case with any that I have tuned and feel that is incorrect information like most b.s. I see people say on forums. Like watching you though, you and I do the same things the same way mostly
Well I pulled the rookie move on my M77 before watching this, and my groups went from .625 MOA at a hundred shooting Factory Hornady PH 178 ELD-X to well over 2.5 letting the barrel cool between shots. After a 5 shot string it was absolutely horrible and heart breaking. Thank you for the video and it's time to call the Dr.!
Hmmm, I may have to go inspect some rifles now. I'm pretty sure some of my free floated setups will let a dollar bill pass but nowhere near 2 or 3 business cards, let alone 5. I have a Model 70 in 270 Win that I would dearly love to shoot better. It was a graduation gift from my dad who is gone now. I could see how proud he was of that gun as I looked over my new gift. Even if I don't get it to shoot any better, I'll literally starve to death before that gun ever goes anywhere. I'd sell off some others if I have to but not that one. Thanks again for another great video. Keep up the great work!
Love your channel!! When I see that you post a new video I always wait until the house has settled down and I know I can watch it unbothered. We should be paying for this information!
I wish I lived near you, I could learn so much more. You are a good man with a ton of knowledge. My mentor died just before I moved from Baltimore to Florida. That man forgot more than I will ever know. Thank you so much for what you impart with each video, you are my new mentor🙂 God bless you, the Mrs. and Benny.
When floating barrels I always made sure to keep first 1.5" of barrel forward of the receiver in firm contact with the stock. This always avoided making the accuracy worse. For some reason I didn't find this necessary with Mauser rifles; I could float the barrels as far back as the receiver ring.
I had a Mosin shooting about 4 inch plus groups at 100 yards. I bedded the stock with cork paper that can be found at arts and craft supply stores. One side is sticky. I apply that to my stock and i added a steel shim to the action screw. The whole thing now shooting 1- 1/2 inch at 100. Could be better with better ammo and better shooter. I was shooting corrosive stuff. But it made a big difference to me.
Weatherby and Remington have always put a forearm pressure point in their thin barreled rifles… both companies have been noted for being accurate rifles. I recently purchased a used beautiful Browning Mauser in 3006 made in 1969. It had a small degree of rust from salt wood on the action flats. So I removed the rust, sprayed a rust preventive paint on the action flats and glass bedded the action and free floated the 3 step down barrel. It shot two plus inch groups with every load I tried, 10 different commercial loads and then hand loads for it….. Out of desperation I put a pressure pad about an inch and a half from the fore end tip……. Surprise it now shots Barnes TTSX 180 grain bullets into 1/2 an inch groups…… who knew!
You made me smile and a tear together with that .222 Rem. My Grandfather gave me one. It was destroyed in a rear-end collision one morning going to work.
Great video, enjoyed it very much. You spoke of the .222 Rem cartridge, I've shot a contender pistol in this round and it's incredible. We got .5" groups at 100 yards off a bench rest and all of us felt it could do better it's just that we couldn't get a steadier hold without modifying the stock and forearm. The round is very easy to reload and isn't finicky at all. It is my favorite round. Mind you the contender has a hugely thick 14" barrel so it's as stable as it gets. Many rifle bench rest shooters get this in a heavy barrel and shoot one hole groups. It is the best 100 yard round I've shot.
I have found with wood stocks especially walnut it will deteriorate over time . A condition known as dry rot. You may not detect this as it looks normal. It is especially prevalent in the lug area. Take a sharp object (knife) and if you can easily penetrate the wood around the lug area, you have it. Another reason to bed your stock especially if it is old. I was horrified when I accidentally came across this phenomena in my 1967 Win: model 70. 30/06. Great video.
Yes, I've addressed this issue in previous videos. It's always caused by oiling. Guns should NEVER be oiled, which attacks wood. They should only be wiped down with a lightly oiled, soft cloth. A great majority of guns are unfortunately abused by well intentioned folks who believe guns require lubrication, when they are in fact degrading their stocks with every drop. "Oiled" stocks are treated with linseed oil, which is a wood preservative; entirely different than petroleum oils which soften, crack, and rot it. Weather and aging does not ruin gun stocks in the least. Properly treated and sealed wood will last forever, just as centuries old furniture and houses have endured. Never, ever be afraid of a wood gunstock. It will last as long as any material, and outlook them!
great video sir! i had a firm impression that "this is a guy that knows" and listened intently, eager to learn. i've been interested in free-floating my 10/22 barrel - but given there'd be just one thin bolt governing contact between the stock and the receiver, i see i'd be best off leaving well-enough alone, until i understand more about bedding.
Watch my presentation on screw torque, where I discuss the 10/22 and its bedding system. Any attempt to free float it will result in severe instability and wild inaccuracy. It requires a stock with neutral pressure along its entire length. Any upward pressure causes screw torque sensitivity, which can be detected by squishy screw pulling as the action seats. It should tighten to a dead stop. Any loss of contact will cause vibration and collision.
i had my dirt cheep Remington sportsman 78 from 1986 I got new in 270 floated and glass bedded and with my reloads it will shoot dime groups all day long at 100 yards with the Leupold VX3 3.5x10x40mm scope with weaver low profile mounts .....just a sweet shooter....to date has not let me down and knock on wood not a single animal i have taken with it has made it more than 50 yards but most of the time they drop on the spot ....but now it sits there looking relaxed and retired as i now hunt with a Winchester mod 94 30/30 for deer and my new 450 bushmaster when hog hunting but I always know my Trusty old 270 is there if i get to go on a hunt that i will likely need to reach out there a bit but today most of my hunting is 100 yards or less out in west Texas so the long reaching 270 is just not required anymore ..man what a kicking mule it is LOL and no but pad off the shelf even had to ad that HAHA
When GunBlue490 talks, I listen. I have been wondering about this myself with my Sako AV in .270 Winchester. It has the same "barrel support" protruding from the barrel channel interfering with the harmonics of the barrel. I'm thinking even if I get it tuned the right torque pressure on the action screws for one day, the next day may be completely different. Not sure what to do with it. Try to work with it as designed, or modify it to chase consistency. Really cool rifle otherwise, which keeps me worrying about it. I can understand why you were thrilled with the improvements you made on your old Model 70. What a relief that must have been! I would be afraid of the damage I could have done.
You are a scource of well earned information. Thank you sir. You have answered several questions I have wondered about for years. Anybody will answer gun questions to seem to be that guy who knows everything about guns. Thank you so much for sharing this information with all of us. It's obvious that you are passionate about your profession.
Yet another great video! I really enjoy watching these, especially when you take “the magic” out of gun modification. BTW: Husqvarna started making chainsaws back in 1958😁
Two years ago I bought a Krico rifle chambered in .22 WMR. The gun shot about one inch groups at 110 yards. I thought this could be better and instead of maybe trying another type of ammunition, I free floated the barrel and now it shoots two inch groups and worse at this distance. So a few days ago I saw your video and ordered bedding compound. Currently the gun cures in the cellar. I'm very exited if the procedure will increase accuracy. I think it won't become worse, so it's no big deal if it doesn't. Thank you for your great videos.
@@thews9237 It has gotten a bit better, but the gun didn't return to it's earlier precision. It now shoots best with CCI Maxi Mag @ around 30 mm but sometimes it produces a flyer.
How has it taken me so long to find this channel? You are making wonderful videos, Sir. I wish you long life and good health so that you may continue to make them. God bless.
My thoughts are, it depends on the barrel you use. I prefer shorter heavier barrels. Current project is a Howa 308 with a heavy 16" threaded barrel. Devcon bedded, PT&G bottom metal. Should be sighting in a scope any day now.
My Remington Model 7 with a pencil thin 18" barrel shot consistently under 3/4" after glass bedding and free floating. My Winchester Model 70 .257 Roberts and 22-250 both shoot half that with pencil thin 22" barrels, as you may witness in my videos. Lots of wives tales have been spread about guns over the years, which is why I am teaching and showing the truth.
Friend of mine would take a piece of plastic, like a piece of a credit card, and stick it between the forend of the stock and the barrel, putting pressure on the barrel. His groups always tightened up after that...
That's because his barreled action was unstable in the stock. The pressure he created kept it from swinging, which is why manufacturers used raised wood in the forearm, to apply barrel pressure. A bedded action holds tightly and eliminates that issue.
@@GunBlue490 Thanks, Yes after that he started bedding his actions, he used Pam cooking oil spray to keep the barreled action and the bedding material from sticking together, worked great..
I had a bad shooting 30/06 Mark X. It was touching stock wood up front. Sanded until I free floated barrel. Typing paper passes under barrel and it's a tac driver with its shortened length of pull. 😎
Yep, ok, about five business cards. I did the barrel channel on my JC Higgins mod.50 but didn't go that far. I was at the range and although the groups were better I noticed that if I tap the top of the barrel I detected the metal to wood contact. "Go Deeper" I thought. Initially I had backed off the action screws then used plumbers sand paper roll fed through the space and used the barrel as the template for an equal spacing gradually tightening the screws as needed. I did eventually get to three layers of the sanding roll with the action screws fully torqued. Seemed fairly well floated at the time and looked very professional, to me at least. I gave it a follow up check at the range and discovered that it was a bit of a chore to get a $5 bill to start at the forward end. I had figured that a section of dowel wrapped with appropriate sanding material to open the bottom of the channel only as the sides now meet the criteria. The 68 year old rifle is not only eye candy, it already shoots better than I will ever accomplish but someone years from now will have this and hopefully be astonished at how well an old (Ancient) wood stocked Sears, Roebuck & Co. rifle can shoot. Having said that I know that you are smiling thinking "Sears yes but that Belgian Mauser action with a High Standard Chromed barrel and a Sears (Weaver) scope. What's not to appreciate?" Thanks for all your videos. Your time, your money, nothing but good things to say about you.
I took a while and I did my homework on my Ruger Mark II all weather , my first free floating job did improve my group by more than a 1/4 inch at 100 yards ! It is a tedious slow process to get it right so take your time !
I use JB WELD to bed the recoil lug and rear screw mount point into the stock. I have used this method for the last 15 years without a complaint or re-work. I have performed this technique on other peoples rifles and all have obtained the same results. Dimes at 100 yards.
Thanks for the videos on free-floating and glass bedding rifles. I was convinced to glass bed and free up the barrel some even though it was originally supposed to be free floated. Glad to say my sub $400 dollar Savage .243 is printing sub-moa now!! Thanks!
Full length glass bedding is superior to spot bedding. Just harder to correctly full length bed the action. But if done correctly the full length is the way to go. Nathan foster is a smart smart man and he recommended full length bedding. He agreed w you though not to free float unless your gona do a glass bedding job first.
I free floated my mossburg 1500 .243 win it was very helpful. It is basically the Howa 1500. I just sanded out the wood and put a spacer where the stock bolts to action. It shoots under an inch with hand loads.
hey there sir i thank you so much for your videos. Im a 57yr old newbie to firearms and even though i have owned firearms for over 10yrs i do "not" consider my self an expert in any part of the firearms hobby save for safety! Which is of course always act as though the firearm "is" loaded and always point it in a safe direction, as well as always checking a firearm personally when ever its handed to you. Now as for me i have just started building my own ARs and i have one in just about every caliber they make an AR15 in. The last two i didnt build but gave them to a local gunsmith ,and basically got screwed! 260.00 bucks to have two rifles put together that do "not" work :>/ !!! So i decided to purchase my own torque wrench and build my own. The 1st upper i will ever build will be a 223/556 rifle. Then ill give my 6.8SPC and 350Legend rifles a go if this one go's well? Now when t comes to bedding a barrel i have always felt as though a seated or bedded barrel would shoot better then a free floated "once" it heats up......Now im no expert but from what i heard here you are saying the same thing.......although there are exceptions to the rule like your Tikka? I have several Savage rifles which i love! two are in poly stocks and one in a wooden one. The wooden one i cant find any info about it any place and even Savage them selves are lost on this one??? It was built in Westfield Mass. and is called a Golden West Model 710 series "K" and is old enough it only has a Patent number on it but no serial number...? I was hoping someone could tell me about it? Any info would be helpful? It has never been fired since its purchase so other then the test firing its Cherry! Oh almost forgot its chambered in 30/06 and has an internal Magazine which i have never seen in a Savage in my 11yrs or so of shooting in a savage that is anyway?
Have you made a video on barrel tuning weights? Perhaps you could discuss them in a part 2 video here, as they are related to the point of oscillating barrels and free floating stocks. For anyone curious: The weights are moved up and down the barrel until you get the barrel's harmonic oscillation perfect so that the bullet exits the muzzle when the barrel has returned to its initial location and is pointing at the POA. By adding weight in different areas, you either add to or inhibit the whipping action that barrels experience during the bullet's travel through them.
If your rifle shoots well for two or three rounds, then becomes inaccurate, it is because heat is warping the barrel. Stabilizing the barrel is the only way to fix this issue. This is why heavy barrels are better than light ones. The tapper creates a weakness.
I made this mistake on my Ruger M77 Mark II with a synthetic stock. It took glass bedding to calm the erratic groups caused by free floating only. From the factory it shot exactly like your model 70 did. By the 4th shot it was throwing flyers. I thought that free floating would solve the issue, only to find out it didn't improve anything. The things we learn through our mistakes. Great video!
Reminds me of a great quote from Sam Levenson - " you must learn from the mistakes of others . you can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself ".
You described the problem some hunters had with Lee Enfield MK IVs walking around the target. Turns out the rifle had a floating barrel when issued, but later owners cut down the forward stock. Stored in damp conditions I can understand the stock warping and making contact with the barrel there by causing inconsistence shot placement after three or so rounds. Thanks for your Videos, very informative .
@@abigailsaoirsefinnegan Hi Lilith this practise started after WW2 and in the 1970s/80s people complained about the Enfield accuracy but it was likely due to the stock mod. cheers
Great video, very informative as always. I wanted to say that I would enjoy seeing more shotgun videos. I’m just starting out and it would be helpful to have more information on skeet, sporting clays, and trap individually. Maybe you could do tutorial videos. Thanks for all your hard work.
I'd love to do that. The great logistical problem is having access to such facilities. My trap club only throws targets during a regular trap meet, which is typical for other clubs, including skeet and sporting clays. I can do some illustrations, which may be of help however, and I may be able to replicate some of the principles with a target thrower. I'll work on that and see what I can do! Thanks for your support and suggestion.
GunBlue490 I appreciate your quick reply. I would be interested to watch those videos that you suggested and I’m sure many other would as well. In my situation, nobody has ever told me how to shoot clays. I’m sure others are in the same position so any information will be helpful. Keep up the good work.
Biggest difference with bedding a wooden stock is the moisture leading to swelling and shrinking of the stock. Meaning the recoil lug might be tight now, but after a few hunting seasons and/or some travel, the interface between wood and lug is going to change. The epoxy will not flex or change. Really it's a game of consistency.
God bless. The comment sections of your videos say it all. I always find more great topics to watch. I want to thank you for your attention to self defense and it's perils. I am appalled by some of the firearm video out there. Particularly, self defense training videos that really can send folks down a slippery slope.
I've found the right ammo for my 222 (that's glass bedeed) and my 243. (Already perfect).No need actually to screw something up. But i'm sure i'll have to rethink about it soon after i'll start reloading... Cheers from France. 🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😇🇫🇷🖖🏻
I was disappointed when I bought 308 Remington 700 sps varmint and it wasn’t free floated. Disappointed until I shot it. Out of the box, three shot groups were touching.
Really enjoyed the information. Luckily, all of my rifles are extremely accurate out of the box. I was wondering if you could do one of your history lessons about the 375H&H at some point. Thanks!
Ok gentleman question!! I just bought my son a remington model 783 270 for Christmas. To my surprise it's actually pretty good quality for the budget price. Only problem I see is the stock has upward pressure at the last 1.5 inch of the forearm. Other than that one section it's free floated and even down the sides it's just that little bit of upward pressure at the forend. I hear that common with some cheaper model to help from poor bedding. Question is if it shoots decent should I leave it alone or trim that area? Just an occasional shooter he will be and hunting with it. Thanks guys..
Love your chsnnel, and its great to listen to and watch a no BS channel. You talk about the bullet leaving the barrrel when it pointing at the target .. i think you said at the node ...the middle part of the vibration. I always belived that the best place for the bullet tòo exit was when the muzzle is moving up or down at its lowest speed, which is at the upper or lower limit of the sinusoid. Because obviously, the muzzle comes to a halt at these two places, therefore the exact exit time is less critical. .?
There are primary and secondary vibrations that wave and oscillate. However the bullet exits best is theoretical, as long as we know what happens and find the load it likes, and allow it freedom.
Husqvarna is a far older company than most can even imagine.. I recently acquired a hatchet they made in the 17th century...the heritage of which predates the company name. They've been making rifles for just as long. The fact that these days they make everything from hatchets to snowmobiles says a lot.
Civilian rifles are good cantidate's for free floating, milsurps like my smle, not so much. Enfields are designed to expect pressure on the barrel, let the barrel whip around on it's own and it becomes pie plate gun. I remember reading about how competition shooters would shim under the barrel with bits of paper to get that pressure just right.
