SHOULD YOU RELEASE AN EP? 

Doesn’t matter, EPs haven’t changed their mind about YOU

What about making an album and releasing like 3 singles off of it before you release the whole thing?

We wrote to magazines and newspapers and they mostly told us to come back once we have a album ready.

What if I call it an EP, but release it in singles. & I also have "Video Diaries" on youtube talking about making it happen & all the struggles & wins that are associated with it?

This is the most convincing argument I've heard on this subject.

Im going to digest this completely. I am releasing what will WITHOUT DOUBT be one of he best Eps of 2019.

Just like the world of apps and software. Release early, release often.

You are absolutely right. I see musicians on spotify only releasing singles and making A LOT of streams. Some then publish all the released singles as an album with maybe another one or two songs on it later.

How about this then Damo? This isn't really an original idea, as there's similar ideas cropping up in these comments, but this is what we're doing and it's been the most stressful and exciting time of ours lives. We've been releasing a single every month since last December, not having a back log of tunes pre-recorded but actually recording and releasing every month, now we're also writing, recording and releasing brand new tracks that no one's heard live, they happen and come together very spur of the moment which keeps things current, fresh and shows our progression month by month. We're stopping at 12 tracks with the last release in November. People have joined us along this ride as things have gone on, and we completely agree that we will overall have had 12 chances to push each track and leave people waiting for the next track to drop, building small waves of hype rather than one big one at the end. We're very much of the approach of, release a track, see what traction is gets but to us, once it's out, it's on to the next thing. It's how we keep things fresh, new and exciting for us, and hopefully for the people that dig what we do too. When all 12 tracks are out there, we're going to package them together with a small run of vinyls. This keeps our initial investment lower, and makes those vinyls rare and exclusive. The old rule of scarcity increasing value. We want people itching to get their hands on them, and already have people pestering us for one once they're available. We've been taking on a minimal amount of shows, because we simply can't play shows and release this material with the amount of spare time we have outside our day jobs. The question is, where do we go from there? Next year is definitely the time to take the material on the road. Play places we've never played, here there and everywhere. Probably mostly for travel expenses if we're lucky... We've organised the tracks so far into a playlist on each platform which is all well and good but we think a lot of people still consume music in a traditional album style way. You get in your car, train, bus etc. put an album on and hopefully stick with it for the 40+ minutes as long as the material is strong enough. We guess the difference is that we want a piece of artwork to go with the whole album that encapsulates everything we've put into it and captures the mood of the album as a whole. This goes for the vinyl release too because we want content to go with into the sleeve e.g lyrics, photos, a collection of each piece of artwork that accompanies each of the single etc. Sorry for the essay. We'd appreciate your opinion and we appreciate your grind of putting out regular, insightful content to help fellow musicians out.

Great advice, completely agree, would definitely be pushing collabs more for sure! Combining small fan bases to grow both audience's together is win win! Then organising tours/gigs supporting each other, playing the collabs live is something more artists/bands should be doing! 💜 Keep up the good work chap x

Damo, I have to partially disagree with you. EP´s are a waste of time because they´re an anomaly. Listeners, Spotify nor the traditional media really care about them. Even bloggers couldn´t be bothered. However, from my experience in journalism and PR, newspapers and magazines aren´t interested in singles because there are simply too many of them. They rather write about bands releasing albums because they are considered to be more committed than bands merely releasing single after single. That goes for most radio and TV interviewers too, unless you have a hit single. However, even unsigned bands have the opportunity to create a buzz together with a professional promo agency, no matter the format if - and only if - the band has an interesting story to tell about themselves and/or about their material. But that sort of thing usually cost money unless one of the band members are skilled in the PR department or they have a manager who is.

You are bang on. By releasing a single every few months I can get the mileage out of my music.

I made a response video to this! “MUSICIANS - STOP MAKING ALBUMS” ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bajaUxCuvlE.html

I notice he glosses over going on tour with one song? lol.

This formula is exactly how some of these rising bands are starting. Thank you for directing me towards this video, so I know how to do it for myself.

Damian, I don't have a band but I produce my own music because band members are so undependable, I learned that lesson a long time ago, plus I'm an older bloke.. so I have a lot of realities working against me except one thing. I believe that I write good tunes. Currently, I'm writing a business plan for my particular project, and I had a difficult time presenting a focused model to pursue the rest of my musical career. I split my goals into 2 objectives, Licencing and strictly (band performance or full-length songs presentation). As I watched your first vid on the EP subject the lite bulb went off in my head and came up with the formula that works for me and my music business plan. So I have to thank you for the inspiration and the viewpoints, The music industry has changed so much since I started, but I'm a lifer. There is so much misinformation out there and lost musical souls I can feel their pain. I was lucky enough to have invested in the necessary print and recording equipment, plus education to be a self-contained musical making machine, and I took lotta hard knocks. I'm ready to release or implement my model as we speak. Sometimes you have to take a step back and plan your future so you don't get lost in the shuffle. Thanks once again..keep up the good work. I appreciate it.

5:50 Grandad should have really taken RU-vid seriously!

Damo, cant help but agree with you. even tho I really want to release my songs as an album because i feel the songs have a congruent message and theme, but the advice in this video seems to good to ignore, id be missing out on potential engagement.

"Exhaust The Creative".... That's the 2019 mission statement right there. 😉

we picked the same band

Not two days ago I was set on making an EP. Thanks for opening my eyes!

I want you to do one about Starting your own Record Labels from Scratch and how to make great money from it in all angles from connecting with different Connections all around with every detail information needed to be understood

Totaly agree, but nobody its listening.everyone just think they are already great.

You’re 100% right. Singles are the way to go. I have a home studio and I’m an excellent audio engineer and even I struggle with the financial and logistical aspect of making singles. Recording drums for example: 4 hours of preparation before recording them. Then the drummer plays for three minutes and then it’s done! Economically speaking, it’s madness not to record other songs too. 9 more minutes drumming and you have the basis of 3 more songs! For guitar, bass and vocals, the preparation is less but it’s still a cost in money, time and logistics. Mixing takes time so you’re right about singles there. Maybe a hybrid approach is best. Where a band will record the skeleton of 12 tracks in a weekend. Then concentrate on finishing and releasing one at a time. That could work.

Watched this, and I don't disagree with you. But I still stand for all the things I commented in the other video. I still see the point of putting out at least one EP in the beggining of your "career". Cheers mate :)

One word “crowdfunding.” Look up Savvy Musician Academy in how to build a career online. Albums with crowdfunding are the way forward, you don’t have to compare yourself to major label bands. The music industry has changed in a way that is beneficial to independent artists. You don’t have to play by the old rules anymore. This is old school thinking.

when it comes to anything regarding promo/marketing, comparing yourself to a big band is death yo

On my actual input, I think a lot of upcoming musicians have the idea that the EP is the sole silver bullet for exposure and building an audience; if its all invested in that and doesn't sell, then things can tank. I think the strategy of releasing something one at a time to entice new listeners, and have them hang on for an actual demand for an EP is a good idea. Its a timing strategy

You're hilarious. I love your videos, great info! Thank you mate!

Thank you Damian, you really help me in my musical career. Love all the way from zambia 🇿🇲 in Africa. Hope one day to get you to a point where you can listen to my music too

So why not make an entire album and then release it one song at a time over a year? Promote each song like a single and rock it as hard as you can for a month. I think the biggest trick for musicians more than WHAT to release is actually WHERE to release it. Facebook is pretty much all pornbots and people selling crap. No fans there. Instagram is a newer platform, but how do you get seen on it? Twitter is great for noise, but your twit, twat, tweet is gone into space in twenty minutes. No fans there. Muscoin, choon, band camp, soundcloud ... bands trying to sell to other bands, just dumb. The Foo Fighters broke before all of this internet mess, so they're still, like most big bands, coasting on past gains. Where are the fans? Where do you find the real people? EP, album, single, shit in a paper bag. Doesn't matter what your making, if it falls in the forest and no one heard it, did you even make anything at all? Where do you find real people now? RU-vid seems like the best place to a degree. So make lots of songs and push them one at a time for as long as you can, then you have lots of creative to exhaust while promoting it and making more. Promote your last album while recording the next one. That way you're just banking more to release. When it does break, there's an entire back catalog for your new fans to get. Just my two cents, and worth every penny you paid for it!!

Hey Damian. I don't see why anyone wouldn't agree with releasing singles. I think a lot of bands don't realize the struggle they will be faced with on the marketing side. It's very hard to break through, no matter how good your band is. You will most likely not do this organically. New music isn't shared like a funny cat video. I think it's best to release singles and keep your content on a schedule. I also like the idea of creating an EP but releasing it as singles. That way you can keep your content current but have something for your top fans to purchase and support at the end of the cycle. Also magazines and blogs post about bands that helps them gain an audience. Until a band makes it to a certain level of fame no one wants to post about them.

Terrible example ( for my taste ) I could never shake the initial feeling I got back when I was a Nirvana fan teenager, when the FF came out after Cobain's death - it's that they're absolutely fucking terrible, shamelessly commercial bad pop band playing at punk ethics because Dave was in Nirvana - without that initial push I would never have been bothered by hearing they terrible shite. Now I'd love to hear about how Ghost became that big in under 10 years. And the way they do their EPs is inspirational to me - releasing powerful singles with 4 other tracks that are really interesting covers that reveal a bit more of their peripheral musical universe.... But the FF, I can't find one good thing about them for the life of me

I just got told by a fellow musician friend to release EPs, because people see you more as an artist who puts out value and you seem more serious and committed. He said for some people it's easier to see you as an artist and become a fan that way, BUT what you said makes a lot of sense and let's face it... my friend is a little older than you and me.....

What about videos?? should each single be released with a video ? :)

if we go to see the storys of many of the new artist of this days we can see that a lot of them has this in common, they start with singles, like Alan Walker with Faded, Ed Maverick from Mexico, if someone know more examples please tell, i think real cases are the only way to prove which is the best option in each case

First off......copyright that band name before I steal it 🤣😂. But on a serious note. I too feel that indie bands and artists definitely SHOULD NOT be even considering a full LP project. However, I'm still not totally against the EP idea. But that's more of personal preference to my brand. Because I like my EP's to be a creative body of work (all be it a small body) that has a particular artistic sound and concept. But during that process still knock you commercial singles. Songs that you make not feel emotionally invested in. But could have a short term local success. I also feel these singles shouldn't even go on iTunes and other E stores. Because the purpose is to generate a buzz, not make a profit (on the singles). But the EP? Have at it. CDbaby it up if you like. But, in today's market. How much money is a indie artist really going to make off downloads and steams? Maybe enough to cover the cost to keep it available?

Spot on mate! This is solid advice and makes a lot of sense! Thank you for posting and sharing.

Yup but guess what, my EP consists in two already releadsed singles, a great song and another song I wouldn't even dare to release as a single. So basically I'd be calling an EP something that has 1 unrelased single quality song. 2 already released songs and one "bonus track".

Hi Damo, Thanks for your insight and passion. What your saying makes sense however, I feel that I need an album or at least EP to be considered legit. This seems to be borne out by my peers. As a new indie artist, you've gotta have something to hang your hat on. I think that's why I would still like to do one album. I don't expect the press to go wild, but I do expect some points on the board in my local scene and a greater sense of accomplishment. Also, I'm the making, a greater sense of purpose. Singles that are ignored feel worthless. I'm just starting out so I need content, for all the platforms. At the moment it's all on RU-vid and it's all free. An EP I could sell while busking and at gigs. Anyway, just my thoughts. Thank you for your channel. I love it!

That approach makes sense. This fella might be on to something.

I think making an EP, for me atleast, is the feeling of making a project which carries an idea or subject and has a certain sound. And it can also be good for having strong songs with big potential and songs that might be personal to you so you can put them along.

This video is definitely better than your “Stop making EPs” video. I get your point now. Why put some much effort into something no one will care about, or might be 25% filler. I still think it’s good to at least have an EPs worth of songs. Then you can release one song every other month in a year with 6 songs until people start noticing and creating a demand for a full album. Maybe I’m old school but every band needs to have at least 6 finished songs because you need it for the live show. If you get offered a 30 min opening set and only have 2 songs then what are you suppose to do?

Right on. Following this advice immediately! Great stuff.

But wouldn't this be the same as making an EP and promoting all or most of the songs as singles (with a music video) every month or so? It seems like the same concept but I believe it would be more structured and formal that way, and would definitly provide more material for gigs so to continue with your live strategy. Seems kinda hard to work on your live performances... with only 1 or 2 songs!

This is what I’m doing Damo! Record a song, release it as a single every couple of months. I’ve been on radio interviews to talk about my latest singles which happens regularly. If I’d released all those songs on one album that exposure would have only happened once! I now have six songs online I have a plan to package it as an album with a few more tracks as a kind of consolidation of all my work. One lot of exposure for a whole album (like you say unless you’re the Foo Fighters) is not enough in my opinion. Great video 👍

Good tips but in my band's situation I would guess an EP isn't too bad. We haven't released anything yet and are not gigging but have about 16 demo songs that are more or less complete. So we are thinking to release an EP of 4-5 songs. Later on, we can just release more singles and eventually an album.

Interesting viewpoint. I agree that For a new band wanting to build a fan base that singles are the way to go if you're mainly selling your stuff on the internet. However if you have say 40 gigs through the year and want to shift merch and CDs you absolutely need more than a couple of singles to flog. This is where the EP has it's place. Albums are for big bands though and they nearly always include an EPs worth of filler tracks. So why bother with them early in the life of the band? So my opinion is Start with singles until you're gigging regularly and getting on medium sized festivals. Once you're gigging a lot you should move to EPs to sell at shows and through your website. If you want a little more mileage out of your EPs then roll two previously released ones together and release them on a short run of vinyl.

What if you release 3 singles at once give those time to grow , release a documentary on those singles and a music video if need be, perform when opportunities come, in another 3 months release 3 more singles, repeat the same process, maybe an interview at this point , then 3/4 months later tell everyone your releasing an EP or a LP ? This way you will have some what a body of work to perform just in case a real opportunity comes your way and you don’t have an ep or an album out instead of just 1 song. With the 3 singles you release see how people react to it. It keeps people engaged to. What do you think ?

I like to make albums because I think of it like making a movie. Each song is like another scene in the movie. But at the same time I do see what you're saying where it's better to release singles and priorities them over albums. It's like releasing a film trailer, just be careful not to spoil anything (my music is the kind of music you can spoil, like the epic plot twist in bohemian rhapsody when the operatic section comes in) I've been putting something together, it's going to be an EP with 5 songs on it, many of which are pretty long, but the first and last song are the most important for it to be seen as an album instead of a bunch of random songs, other wise it's just a few songs with a somewhat similar vibe

I agree with Damian . The EP was for a time when there was no digital media . The EP was super important up until 2005 maybe . With the internet you can put the songs in the listeners ears in a instant . In 1980 it may take the band 2 days , 3 weeks or 3 months to get to your town and when they left it would take another year to get back around . The bands needed to give the fans songs to digest and gatefold art to intrigue them . If you want to make an album just to make one , I get it but if you are trying to make a career in the business , Damian is correct

Littraly was about to release an Ep but this makes so much sence to realise the songs individually. Grate advice found your channel so helpful 👍 nice one.

I think you are absolutely correct when it comes to exposure buuuut I see a hack here I will be trying the coming two years. If you release a single every month then that is 12 songs a year. Well if you smack a cover on there you can release an ep with four tracks (three singles and one cover). This let's you get listeners from other bands but also let's you release the first two singles again as part of the ep. I'd say use the ep as a re-release tool to pump as much value as possible out of the singles.

imo So much better-said than the 1st anti-EP vid! A thoughtful approach, no matter if it works as intended or not, is always better than a band just shooting its load without strategy or tactics. Cool. imo

i am a big fan of David Grohl just for the fact that he made it twice....insane.....why cant we make it once? lol

If you got no fillers on it, just solid tunes - by all means, release your stuff. But if you are just being overindulgent with yourself, brace yourself for the shit storm of hate comments ;-)

I learned MASSIVELY from this Video. Big love Damian Keyes ❤️. I’m definitely gonna keep this up. You’re just a blessing to mankind. ❤️❤️❤️🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬

I release albums but if there are five long tracks (an hour of music) it gets labelled as an EP. I have albums (running time 45mins) but because there are eight tracks that's an album.

..iv'e always been a singles-kinda-guy anyways....see if they bite first......

If you make music for consumption, an album doesn’t matter. If you do it for artistic reasons you may need an album to suit a narrative. Also you probably record in studio where cost may be significant enough to limit your options on the number of tracks. In some genres it may not matter so you may do rolling releases.

Very good points. Thank you. We'll probably release more singles. Good idea.

So here is the question? If you are starting should you only show that you have 1 song on Spotify, increasing month after month. Or at least put 5 or more up?

What about releasing an album, but then pushing a song from that album at a time? Sort of like how bands used to do. The album would come out, then maybe 4 or 5 songs would be released as singles, make some good videos and record a few b-sides. That way there's still new content coming between albums. I like making music videos for every song on my band's albums, but I tend to spread out the release of those videos over the next year or so. Only on RU-vid for the most part though as I don't know where else I can get them played these days. I did get a video on community TV years a few ago though so maybe that's something more bands need to look at, even if it's only seen by less than 100 people, it's a start.

Working towards an EP or album might be a good thing concept wise. But releasing seperate songs in this day and age seems the thing to do. As for an album it is good to think about it as a whole with a coherent set of songs that were meant to be on the same album or at least side.

I agree for the MOST part. Keep releasing singles, music videos, content in a constant stream. but once you have enough content, might as well release an ep or album so people can find it on Spotify, Itunes, etc.

This one is A LOT better man! Adding value by telling peps what to do. Cheers mate!

By EP, I assume you're referring to 2-3 songs of the same song that are remixes? Sorry in advance for the silly question, but I am about to drop my first release of three remixes of one song (it's a house track) as an EP, but thinking of releasing each version one by one (really want to make that music video). Am I entirely missing something here? I have been under the impression that there is the single (1 song), EP (2-3 songs that can be a remix), and the album. Maybe it's different for dance music.

DAMO! Thanks for the great advice. I was actually wondering about how my band should release our next track(s). I think we're going to go with singles like you said. Seems like a really good option for smaller bands with minimal followings.

Doesn’t matter. EPS haven’t changed their mind about you. 😈

This is brilliant mate... exhaust the creative. Makes perfect sense.

Agree with your thoughts about not running out of creative too quickly. Fair point.

I hate EPs. They are worthless these days. I hate to put it on the turntable and just have one or two songs on both sides. EPs suck

We all want to have an album or EP for sure. But for us DIY dudes it's not a financially viable option. The single release is far better. As Damo says, it's best to repeat the process of singles releases instead.

Thanks for great videos! I would like your advice how to do a bandtour with only one song?

10:12 sounds like the South Park team's game plan.

"I think I just broke my leg" lmao. But seriously, this was a very informative and thought provoking video. I definitely agree on your strategy with singles working for an up and coming band. Funny enough, I was having band talk with a buddy of mine last night who I recently started a new project with and he suggested something very similar as far as releasing a different single every month or so. I'll definitely take this advice on the marketing side as we build up the collection of riffs and songs. We're contemplating the idea of keeping it as an online project so we can market from that perspective. I think it would still make sense for locals band to release an EP if they're actively out playing shows to promote themselves as well as the release as long as there are other songs in the reserves. Gonna keep the idea of not "exhausting the creative" in my mind as we move forward with our project. Also, you earned yourself a new subscriber.

The idea that a successful music business revolves around television, radio, magazines etc.. is ridiculous in the age of digital marketing. Independent musicians can create healthy businesses without any of that with direct response marketing. I couldn't disagree more with the argument given.

Sound advice. I agree completely. Thanks

Thanks I was going down the road f eps yea good advice

Fuck, the Foo Fighter's, though. Just sayin'. :)

Thank you for the tips

Whoow he does make a lot of sense. One can tell he really knows what he is talking about.

Fucking. Awesome. Video. Well said.

LOVE this! Don't exhaust the creative. 💙🙌🏼

Dude, the reason there was a cap of songs on cd's was because of labels paying out mechanicals. The more songs, the more mechanicals. Each song is 9.1c up to 5:00 and then 1.75c every minute thereafter. I'm surprised you didn't actually figure that out...that said, the industry has been trashed with free music that began from Napster, which was the first dumpster fire. You should actually rip the industry for introducing a software medium that was not copy-protected. That should be your next video.

Would have to disagree with this... It all depends on what your GOAL is with the EP. As an independent artist with a small fan base, you can use your EP and the right budget/strategy to get audience data with Spotify. Find out who is connecting with your music, what other artists they listen to, and then create targeted ad campaigns to create brand awareness. All while keeping your brand front and center. Just thoughts rushing from my brain to my keyboard but I feel like you’re speaking about things in a rather outdated way.

I totally agree! Sometime ago I decided to stop doing albums and just focus on one single at a time. It just makes more sense to me.

you are what i would call a DILF #nohomo

Who cares what you think about ep's, lp's, singles...? If you're a musician, just do what you want. There are no limitations.

Very persuasive, well-thought out, practical and helpful! Thank you.

Thanks brother, was literally just deliberating on this now!

Really great advice. Thank you.

Ok man I commented on your other video and you linked me to this one. I understand more what you're saying now. In the other video the message I was getting from it is "don't release an EP, but albums are cool" but I think your take on singles is 100% right. We're in a different era. Take The Chainsmokers for example, I've never heard of them before their couple massive singles a couple years ago. They skyrocketed up the charts (Closer has around 1.5B streams on spotify) HOWEVER, when they put out their full record, it was garbage. I think my strategy would be to release singles strategically spaced out, get some traction, build an audience with those singles. I'd even say to wait til the audience is saying things like "Where's the album?" "We want tour dates," etc. During the time that those singles are releasing, finish the record (the act should already have those 2 or 3 leading singles done). Then when the singles are out and people are interested and want the record, finalize the other 8 or 9 tracks on the album, and announce the release date. Sorry for the long comment but what I'm taking away from this is that you gotta build the audience and make THEM ask YOU for your music, instead of YOU asking THEM to listen to it. Awesome vid

Inspiring! Wasted a few waves trying to record an e.p.Thanks man!

Its just the knowledge i was looking for. Thank You!

So from the perspective of the audience, a single is much easier to digest. If you're going through your friends list and you say "Hey here's my/ our new song, take a listen", that's only 3 or 4 minutes of their time. If you say "Hey, here's my new EP/ Album" they think "Aw shit, now I have to listen to a lot more and I don't have the time for that/ Don't feel like it. In that respect, it makes it a lot easier for people to grab onto it and put it in their playlist, therefore growing your fanbase. However I love a good album. I don't have Spotify (my music is on it but I could care less about using it), I'm a buyer of music. In fact I just bought a couple songs today because a new album came out from a Japanese group that I like. At the same time though, progressive metal is thriving off of albums at the moment. Guys releasing hour long instrumental albums and they get thousands of views. It all depends what you're going for but in a general sense, the idea you propose of singles is much more effective. I like listening to albums so I'ma keep making albums in the off chance that maybe others do too. I just like making music. :P

Alternative (worked for me): Release three singles with a couple months in between them, then release a 5 song EP containing those 3 songs; you’ll effectively be releasing only two songs, but you’ll be: A) creating excitement about a full set of songs, which is usually more than just a single. B) giving a new push to your prevous singles. C) creating a more cohesive live show; you’ll be playing your EP instead of five separate singles. You’ll essentially just be releasing singles, but they’ll all be prt of a bigger strategy and a more cohesive product.

Honestly, if your band isn't good enough to blow up on an EP, then perhaps you should just break up and start a new band *anyways*. Pounding away at the business to make a living off of mediocre music isn't the best strategy either. Having a good release structure isn't going to fix boring tunes. If you have something fresh and exciting you'll see results regardless of the format.

All this assumes the artist gives a shit about making money or going on tour. Music is the one area where if it is your hobby, people will question you as to where you think it is all heading. As if the fact that you make albums and write songs MUST be to become rich or famous. Like a golfer wouldn't play golf unless he or she thought they were going to end up in the PGA. A painter wouldn't paint unless they thought they would be featured in a gallery. An actor wouldn't act unless they thought they had a chance at landing a paying role. Sometimes art is done for the sake of art. An album is a piece of art. The long listen is something certain people need and seek out and crave. Making an album is completely rewarding even if nobody buys it. Make it. Put it out there. Don't let businessman thinking stop you from outputting as much creative material as your mind can output. This guy is confusing making art with making sales. They are not mutually exclusive. I don't have a band. I play every instrument. I don't want to tour. I want to sell a few dozen albums to various randos around the globe just to justify me creating it in the first place. It doesn't take 6 months to record an album. It takes about $1000 in gear and knowledge, patience, and a little talent and talented friends. If anyone out there starts lessening their output because of what some guy on youtube said, than that is one sad state of affairs.

Agree. That's what I'm doing.