Should You Run an Auto Block With a Safeguard? Response from Mad Rock 

I like the concerns for safety and exposure. Also, thx for taking the extra time to reach out to the manufacturer.

Good job taking a deep dive into this concern. You do your research and I can appreciate that. 👍

You are welcome! I want to thank you for looking into this for us, I could never find an answer to this question other than it wasn't recommended. I really wanted to know why though and I finally have my answer. I can see their reasoning for why to not use an autoblock, but I also would say that for me it is not a concern that it will get jammed into the device and even if it did I would rather be hanging from a tree stuck then on the ground with an injury. I tried the prussic above the device and it is pretty much impossible for me to do that and feel like I have control while descending. So I am going to use the autoblock method. Thank you so much for looking into this, your concern for safety and your attention to detail are why I subscribe!

Great video!! I really appreciate the safety concern and the info you share with us!! I also spoke on the phone with a Madrock tech and he said exactly what you mentioned but he also added a schwabisch knot if the prusik wont move freely. So I personally tried that and it works great. I put it above my madrock while I’m on the ground and when I pull line through the maxrock while ascending it pushes the schwabisch knot up the rope a lot easier then a prusik (just my personal opinion). But as always thank you for these types of videos!

As always awesome job with everyrhing,especially this.keep it up

Thanks for your safety concern.

Great video… another simple solution to tending the prusik when it’s above the Madrock, is to buy an s biner, and tie some cheap paracord to it so that you can snap it above the prusik and hold the paracord in your lever hand. This allows your entire hand to man the safeguard handle and the s biner will act like a tender and help bring the prusik down.

Great review and thank you for your time. Looks like a good saddle.

Thank you for this demo of the back-up knot above the Safeguard. Other then for legal reasons, what you read from Mad Rock's reply to you was a little unclear as to WHY they don't recommend backing up below the Safeguard. It might be helpful to further explain that if a knot, prussic or otherwise, were to come from below into the Safeguards with enough force and weight, there is the potential of damaging the device internally, causing it to fail altogether. Understanding this would help clear up why you felt you could safely continue with the back-up the way you have been doing, with keeping the back-up knot so far from the Safeguard. Again thanks so much for these great videos. They have helped me.

Nice video. I had struggled with the same issue. Then I tried 8mm rappel line and needed to try another system and found one I really like. Austrialpin, the company that likely made the buckles on your saddle, has a product called the Austrialpin fish. No moving parts so it is more quiet than the madrock and it works well with the 8mm rappel line. If you have a chance, give it a run. Still face the question of where to tie off the prusik, and like you, I find it easier to operate with my left hand on the lever and a right hand on the prusik knot. Great video. Thanks again!

I appreciate the safety aspect of your videos. This one sticking stuff is definately a neat hunting tool but all our loved ones want us to come home after every hunt and having backups is a good practice. Thanks for sharing your experience

Good video. I'm with you Matt. If you had a longer auto block I could see that as a potential hazard with it getting caught in the madrock. But since you have a shorter one it would never get caught like you mentioned. Another good thing to possibly plan for would be how would you get down if you did get your rappel device stuck? It could be a possibility if you were running a longer auto block below your device. I currently don't use a back up with my gri gri plus but probably should.

I run one when I remember to put it on...

I’m using a singing rock sir for self repellent and found it to be very nice. I have never use the madrock before. Think you can review one of those singing rock sir?

Using a second point of attachment when using a saddle as a stand is paramount for safety, as well. Unfortunately, most seem to promote only one point of attachment and not using a safety at all.

I’ll give you a thumbs up.

Hey man I ALAWYS tie a stopper knot about 6 in. behind my mad rock in case it slips

Is the term “Auto Block” used to describe a backup method or a specific type of cord used or a specific knot? It seems I’ve heard that term used in multiple ways.

Have you heard of any fatalities from using Saddles or These climbing methods for saddle hunting? I've only heard of one where the guy was rather large and got caught upside down and couldn't turn back around. But that's the only one that I've heard of.

So your autoblock below the madrock, your only hooked to one lineman loop?

Hi Matt I saw you posted a "short" saying you weren't backing up your Madrock this way anymore. Being new to saddle hunting I had watched this video and your previous backup video and thought this method worked great. As I understand it, if you have a problem and find yourself rapidly falling, the worry isn't getting the autoblock hitch sucked into the device. The worry is if you are rapidly falling the force of the autoblock grabbing the rope abruptly and stopping you would put excessive pressure on the pin inside the device and could cause it to break. My question is if you were already rapidly falling wouldn't that indicate the device had already had a problem (either operator error or failure) and the backup would be the only thing preventing you from hitting the ground? FYI I only use the autoblock on my linesman when descending. While hunting I tie it above. I tried the carabiner/paracord thing and it didn't work well for me.

I run a gri-gri, for now, and only tie a knot when I need to go hands free (hunting, setting/removing platform, etc.) Those style of devices are fairly redundant on rappel, staying within recommended rope diameters and keeping hands on the break strand of course. Once winter goes away I'll be addressing the safety concerns more from transition of mountain guiding and climbing skills to saddle hunting. Redundancy is good but some times you can be too redundant, we are after all hanging from one rope.

I run mine below the madrock

I run my swabish below my madrock on a second shorter bridge to keep it centered. The swabish acts like your brake hand anyways. And if you panic on safeguard the swabish will auto lock as soon as you let go. Been using this set up for years. I also use on SRT through a pully on my rope grab ascender. But thats me and my risk. As soon as your feet leave the ground, thats all you and what you feel is your saftey I take no responsibility on anyone else just my owne. Just wanted to echo you.

Im with you i tie my auto block below the mad rock 👍👍