My dad was a toolmaker. When I was a kid I found his bag of gauges, similar to this, took them to my room and painted them to look like tiny robots that could punch each other. At least he sees the funny side of it now. About forty years later..
It's always a tragedy when a good instrument dies. When I was about ten, my uncle gave me a vernier caliper (in fractional inches, no less) and my Mom insisted that my dad grind the points off the nibs. We lied to her and said he had, and fifty years later I still have it. Machinists are kinda nerdy about stuff like that.
I used to try and use snap gauges for cylinder bore work. I used to ride dirt bikes. I could never get an accurate measurement either. I knew from my machinist training, that engine machinists have specialized bore gauges, but I couldn't afford those. I swallowed my pride and asked a guy at work. He had worked on radial aircraft engines at the Curtis Wright facility during WWII. He served in Korea. I always watched him real close, but he was kind of grumpy and intimidating. When I asked him about measuring these bores, he looked at me kind of funny, like I said something that smelled bad. He went and got a metal box he had squirreled away. He explained that trying to use snap gauges won't work. The wear patterns in the bore make an accurate measurement impossible. He told me to take his personal bore taper indicator. It's really old, but accurate. Let him know if it worked for me. This tool has a kind of 'sled' (not sure what to call it) that an indicator sits on. There are different length tips in this kit, that are used depending on bore size. A rod attaches to the device so it can be easily slid down the bore. I used it, figured out the proper dimension to bore it oversize. Worked great! The machinist, Donald Andrews (RIP), gave me the tool. I've used it countless times. He didn't think it was doing anybody any good buried in his tool box. I got to know him well after that. We became good friends. I get to tell this story about a quiet man that helped me out, every time I show that tool off.
Yeah, looked at the timeline to notice it was halfway done when i was gettin into ToT mode. Sooo i’ll be watching the other episodes, again, for the third/forth time.
Hey This Old Tony: First of all - thank you! I basically got into metal fabrication and welding because of your videos. How about a shop tour video sometime?
I have asked for this too, I'm told it may be on the books later. Interestingly Tony said he moves kit about a fair bit, so it feels like it needs to be more than just a shop tour and more of a tour and mindset /process path video.
Shane K speaking of ballistic, one time I took apart a tool, not knowing there was a spring, and the thing exploded! I swear the spring and a few parts must of ended up in orbit and are there to this day because I've looked everywhere in my shop and can't find em.
That's how I take apart certain gun bolts. Just to be safe cause the shag carpet in my shop has enough small parts hiding as it is. No really it's a good thing to do .
Pro tip, when the surprise shooting spring threat is high, disassemble within a clear plastic bag. The bigger the better because if you can keep your hands way down in the bag while you disassemble, the springs have further to shoot to escape the bag. Drape a shop rag over the opening, hold it close to your chest, or do something else to try to minimize the opening. One more pro tip for when you've already lost a part. Grab a flashlight and turn off the overhead lights. Get down on the floor and shine the beam nearly parallel to the floor. Any dust, dirt, chips, or parts you're looking for will now cast a very long shadow, making them easy to see. I think the beam also helps to focus your attention on a distinct area instead of taking in an overall picture. Try it, you'll be surprised how dirty your floor is.
TOT: "We need to do what Brown and Sharpe failed to do" ME: "Wow, Tony is going to teach us how to end a prolonged labor dispute without destroying the company, and in about a minute of remaining video!"
Well, that would be an even shorter video. When you have a 100+ year-old company that is synonymous with quality precision instruments, you pay the people who make those instruments every penny they're worth and then some, even if it means your stock price dips for a month or two. People who need good instruments now go elsewhere at any cost and people like Tony will be one time customers, rather than the multi-generation customers B&S used to count on.
A couple years ago I treated myself to a starrett 91B tap wrench. I'd been eyeing one for a while and finally pulled the trigger on one. It was brand new in the box still in the plastic bag. I was so excited I could barely contain myself. I brought it to work with me and wanted to try it so bad that I grabbed a piece of CRW (can't remember what) stock, drilled a tap hole and grabbed a tap. This is where my excitement died. I went to close the wrench on the tap and got a gut churning crunching sound from inside of it. I stopped what I was doing and took the wrench apart to find metal shavings all through the insides. It took me about an hour to clean them all out. It broke my heart to spend all that money on it just to have to pick up where they left off.
I have a Starrett automatic center punch that works about a third of the time. A good whack against the table usually gets it working the rest of the time. Pulling it apart shows nothing too obvious, but my Chinese one works flawlessly.
And this is why I only buy used tools. They are generally cheaper because they are 'used', but as a whole, older tools are much better made... back when people gave a hoot about what they were making.
Did you say there's a new TOT video? I was very busy doing important things while working from home, but I'll set that all aside for some TOT! -- wait what day is it?
As I tell every new person in the shop, the difference between low quality and slightly better quality to good quality is if things are deburred. After deburring it's often all fit and finish. Good overview of this "deburring" of premium tools to make them work right... I think I will break mine down and give them a once over just for sanity sakes, and because TOT did it.
Problem is that I don't keep any light oil around. I tried switching to light oil but my family just doesn't like the flavor as much as a full fat oil.
Those look about as well deburred as the hardened Starrett combination square head that i got a few years ago new. I could shave with the edges on that thing.
That is a shame. I have a set of Starrett snap gauges that are gritty also. I sent a brand new Starrett caliper back to the factory because the rack was made from two pieces and you could feel the transition between the two, could not stand it, it was better but not fixed when i received it back. I gave them away to a young man that was proud to own them.
My hardened Starrett is just fine. But then I got it 1974 or 5. Had to wait about 6 months for them to come up in the production rotation. As to the telescoping gates. I've always thought they should have a bigger radius on them. Maybe a drilled out steel ball.
Every other TOT video: Here's a quick tip... 26 minutes later. I feel like I've been cheated out of 20 solid minutes of meandering around said quick tip on this one. I have no recourse but to pull out my bore gauges and a stone. In protest.
eh, who cares. With modern Nikasil bores they rarely wear and when they do wear enough there's a ridge at the top thats enough to catch a fingernail on. The coating is very thin, any serious damage is noticeable with the eye
I just took the head off mine and mashed a sheet of foam down on it then measured the imprint. Turns out the 80cc bicycle engine I bought was really 200cc's! Until I remembered it's pi*r^2 not pi*d^2.
Aidan Gillett seems like I ran into a company that could reapply the nikasil coating on 2stroke cylinders. They specialized in old Yamahas , but I don’t think they were too picky about it.
Wait, you narrate these LIVE?! Dude, your commentary is so tight I thought you had to be doing like a scripted dub pass over your videos. You're a freaking super hero.
Well it's actually easy if you know what you are doing (havent tried it as in making youtube videos myself but noticed when I explain something, how it works etc) this is also how I choose to look "how to" or other sort of technical videos if it is dubed/scripted I assume that the one making the video doesnt really know what he is doing and just googled the basics for the topic of his video.
Great call, TOT. I have a set of Tee gauges I bought over fifty years ago, and I always assumed the crunchiness was just a manifestation of interference between the spring coils and keepers. Now I know it can be fixed. I plan to clean them with mineral spirits, as alcohol has suddenly become precious in my house.
I bought a set at a used tool store years ago, no idea what they did. A few weeks later at work, I needed to figure a bored ID, not my usual kind of machining, and it occurred to me these things would work. Yep they worked. An old timer told me that is exactly what they were made for so he was less impressed with my brilliance than I was!
Only a machinist would buy a set of tools just because theyre old and well made even if they have no idea what they do. He who dies with the most and highest quality tools wins the game of life.
“Shame we have to do this to ‘premium’ tools”. I bought a brand new set of B&S parallels- had to grind the 1/2” pair so they’d match. A brand new pair of B&S v-blocks I had to grind one side to put the vees on center. Went from referring to Brown and sharpe as B&S to just BS!
B&S just isn't what they used to be. They lost quite a few of their older established skilled craftspeople during a labor dispute in the early 80's and it was more or less downhill from there.
Learning that you can pull these bore gauges apart and clean and do "Minor" rework on them. . . thanks! Now to go get some and see what needs to be done!
I was just thinking the same thing. I have a set of pure Chinesium bore gauges from Harbor Freight that could do with having a bit of poking and polishing...
TOT I want my money back on this episode!! You brought back one of those suppressed memories of mine. I was training a newbie on how to measure a bore. The first few measurements went fine, but then the lock got really tight on them. With some decent effort, it freed up. Unfortunately they didn’t realize that just the tip is the lock and inadvertently loosened the handle shaft. The proper term for the “plungers” are “projectiles”. After that, it was just one of those bad days. To account for all the parts, I took apart another gauge to see what was in it. I can’t ever use my gauge set without noticing that two of them have different thread sealant on the handle shafts. You made me go look at them just so I could shake my head again.
Had a set of moore and wright telescopic bore gauges they served me well for 30 years.they were second hand when i got them ,probly made in the 1940s keep up the good work
I follow way too many channels, but TOT always grabs my attention first. It's got to the stage that is 3rd season re-runs from the start in preference to watching new content on other channels . You sir are what all educators, lectures and teachers should aspire to be, informative, educational, entertaining and able to hold the attention of your audience. Stay safe mate, you improve the lives of 793k people on this Earth.
The amount of joy i derive from learning about deburring bore gauges is inversely proportional to the chance of me ever needing them. Such is the magic of ToT.
Someone once told me that This Old Tony’s videos were boring, I said, Yes, yes they are. You can now even measure how boring to a precise measurement 👌🏼
I wish I watched this earlier. You have to try to post your videos before I need them. I mean, how hard can it be. I bought a set of telescoping bore gauges from perhaps Enco some 10 years ago when I was first starting to throw my son's inheritance into this hobby. About a month ago I was annoyed by the "crunchiness" of their action so it took to disassembling one to see what I could do to fix the problem. Well, needless to say, I didn't pull up the carpet in my garage and now I have fo find a home for 16 boxes of spring wire and time to learn how to wind springs.
You know, one thing I love about the videos you make is the tools you use. Back in a Small Engine class in highschool, we learned about these various measuring tools while we learned about tearing down a single cylinder Briggs motor, and reassembling it. I haven't touched, nor heard anything about the bore gauges in years. Back then I wasn't too keen on learning anything so I never fully understood how to read an analog Micrometer but seeing this has brought back those memories and kind of makes me want to buy some of these just to measure random stuff around my home.
Isolation beginning to bite huh? Stripping and filing bore gauges . Same here, screw boxes in order, argon bottle finally strapped to bench, hell I've even swept the floor!
Thanks Ken! We need to preserve these industry names, otherwise we look like idiots trying to explain to the wife why it took two beers, I mean HOURS, to *fix* our precision whatsidoodles.
Careful about the language...this is a sorta family garage channel. Talk about repairing your precision personal whatsadoodie with the reverence it deserves!🤪😁😲😄👽👍😎
So glad you took on this small project, I have wanted to attempt it in the past every time I reach for mine. Now I feel I have what it takes to be successful. Thank you Tony!
I made the same point in another comment. Chinesium tools are not the greatest, but, for the most part, they are perfectly usable, and orders of magnitude cheaper than the likes of Starrett and Brown & Sharp. So the big names have to cut production costs to stay in business. I mentioned Stanley with their mexico production plant. Stanley tools are not what they used to be, but with a wee bit of a fettle they can be.
@@aserta B&S was a pillar of machines and tools in Providence for decades until the 1970s. Where the domestic and European competition got fierce. Margins slowly and surely went down and CEOs made some bad decisions. Japan quality started to rise. Labor union issues and cost of living kept rising. Don't forget that B&S was a fierce competitor and may have caused the demise of many machine tool companies itself. There is customer loyalty but when another product at half the cost does the job then you can't compete. Just my 0.02.
Thank you for showing how to disassemble them. Mine have always bothered me, but I was reluctant to take them apart because I didn't know the procedure. I'm guessing that Mitutoyo telescopic gages are better, but they are also $170 for a six piece set.
@@karlkunkle9233 I'm surprised to hear that. I have the utmost respect for their products. You saved me some money, and I don't blame you for being disappointed ;-)
Tony, Glad to have you bring this up and what the fix is. I’ve owned a Starrett set for years and thought all telescoping gauges were “crunchy.” Crazy. Be well, Will
I've got an ancient pair of snap gauges that are well built, but they still slip if you try to use a ratchet thimble or clutch on the mic. The trick is just not to do that lol.
The locking pin dimensions likely determine how well they lock. If the point of the pin is too short, the smaller rod won't lock unless you tighten the piss out of it.
Yeah, I thought the rough finish might actually be intended on the floor of the keying slot at least, if that is smooth and the whole thing is oiled as well I can see it needing a serious tighten to hold properly.
i am not into machining or welding but from the day that your vids start pop up on my feed i realy enjoy watching them. good job and keep going with the vids
I am a blacksmith (advanced hobbyist) but your videos over the years have opened up a whole new dimension to my home-work-hobby Thank you very much, Sir.
I was thinking the same. I have two sets, Starrett and Mit, and the Mitutoyo is what I reach for every time. I want to love Starrett, but they're just not made as well as they used to/should be.
@@kosir1234All inferred/transposed measurements are up to the skill of the operator, but second hand Mitutoyo set in good shape will last your lifetime.
It's the chrome plating. He could easily make a nifty set if he cared to spent the time, but they'd rust because blueing isn't gonna get it for that kind of tool, and for some reason nobody even entertains the option of nickel plating even though its dirt simple and effective.
@@somebodyelse6673 Hard Chrome plating (not just "flash chrome") beats the hell out of nickel plating as far as wear resistance is concerned. FWIW, Starrett telescoping gauges aren't plated or stainless. They are made of tool steel though, likely containing a fair bit of either chromium or nickel. (They will rust, but not easily.)
I have used my Starrett “snap gages for over 50 years. I seem to remember doing something similar to them when I first got them. They have been invaluable.
I have an old set of Starretts bought new, with essentially the same problems. I may use this opportunity to smooth things out. Wonderfully nice hardened materials, but really notchy to use. Usually engine builders use feeler gauges to check piston clearances. You should know where on the piston the mfg wants you to measure the clearance since pistons expand from uneven heating when in use. Air cooled cylinders may be choke-bored to allow for combustion chamber heat in the upper cylinder. Instructions for fitting new pistons to a cylinder on your engine would likely do just fine. Make sure to check end-gaps on piston rings to match cylinder bore so they are not too tight.
I bought a set from harbor freight. After trying them only once with no good results I threw them in back of a drawer never to be seen again until I watched abom79 using them on a video. He, by far has the best method of using them with repeatable results I’ve ever seen. Now, thanks to him I didn’t waste my money. They were also very gritty feeling. I took em apart and cleaned em up and now they’re a good, frequently used tool. Finally, I can cut some precise bores.
I've always wondered how you can get an accurate bore reading with gauges that are flat and not round or pointy??? Maybe we need to investigate this!!!
Best Present ever. You posted this on my Birthday. After dealing with NO ONE because of the current Blah blah blah, I got this!!! Love your vids Tony. Admittedly I have watched all your videos. Thank you for the teachings and the laughs.
Thank You!!! I’ve had a set for quite a while and have wanted to smooth them out to perform better. Hats off to you good sir for this demonstration on safe disassembly. 👍👍👍👍👍
Finally up close, I get to see what Abom pulls out of his pocket and peels/pulls down( like he is about to break into a dance) out of a part. Then magically has a measurement. I knew I could count on you. Stay healthy and acne.