Nelson got the very first Simpsons History and I was still figuring out how to research and organize them, so I think he deserves a second video. Also, we can never have enough Nelson content out there 😛
"Oh for god's sake, I can see why he left..." is one of my absolute favourite later-season Marge lines, it's so weirdly out-of-character, but I think that makes it even funnier.
I liked it, but can still admit that it's really ooc for Marge. BUT, I was also never on the 'Oh, poor poor Nelson!' train either. I grew up from the earliest seasons onward, so to me, Nelson was permanently a more genuinely mean-spirited, violent kid to contrast Bart's Puckish rogue. To show sympathy towards him and it not be predicated on deceit or misunderstanding reminded me too much of the kids I knew in real-life... who were genuinely mean-spirited and violent, but knew how to turn on the 'Oh, poor me from a broken home" schtick to get sympathy.
I think thats what makes it funny. Its so out of character, its that little peak of what we never really see but she might be thinking, that little bit of "lois griffin" in her
The obvious solution is to make the very tall man Nelson’s new father figure. 1. He has a car so he has some sort of financial stability even if it is quite small 2. He showed some willingness to reason with Nelson about why him being laughed at was mean spirited. However upon Nelson failing to understand his actions have consequences 3. He then shows Nelson some discipline which is sometimes necessary as a father figure 4. And finally he’s very tall so Mrs. Muntz would probably go for him. It’s the obvious and best thing for Nelson.
We need when Homer went bald for a Simpsons Mysteries. It bothers me so goddamn much. In Lisa’s Sax, Homer is completely bald, but even in 1 year flashbacks, we see that Homer still has the tiniest bit of hair. In Barthood. Lisa is five, and Homer still has a lot of hair. Contrasting Lisa’s 3 and 3 8ths age in Lisa’s Sax, I’m probably going into this too much lol. Edit: holy crap hopefully Jims sees this, it has more likes than his comment lol.
@@joel198d yeah but even that’s inconsistent. He rips out all but three of his hair when he finds out that Marge was pregnant with Lisa. But, like I said, even if that’s true, in Lisa’s Sax Homer has his classic two hair look. I know I’m going into this way too much lol.
The Nelson-Moe duo idea is even better the more I think about it. Moe is pragmatic and persuasive enough to get on Nelson’s good side and be a positive influence. But due to his slimy and violent side, he could never really stop Nelson as a bully or be a perfect father. They both can change each other in interesting ways while still retaining the characters core struggle for episodic storytelling.
Whenever The Simpsons decides it's time to start wrapping up the show and everyone's storylines, I think they should commit to Moe adopting Nelson. With this and Maya's return, it'd feel like a pretty satisfactory ending.
I used to think Nelson could find it un such an obscure character like Zachary Vaughn. Because it Is time the show revisited some one-timers/very little important characters (specially if they are voiced by the main staff actors and not by a celebrity guest star) and i think it could be a good way to complement characters since Nelson could help him to control his alcohol addition and Vaughn would give him the education he needs
I think it would be sweet if Nelson got super protective over his foster mother Maya. The schoolyard kids make fun of her and he beats them up, and when Nelson's real mom gets angry about it, he shoots her down 'She's half the height of you, but she's more than twice the mother you've ever been!'
I agree. I didn't talk about Maya in the video but it would be really sweet if, considering his aloof biological mom, he and Maya became very close and protective of each other
My theory with Nelson's dad is that he's similar to Jamie Tartt's dad from Ted Lasso. He abandoned Nelson when he was young, but comes back when he sees something he's good at to try and exploit him. Explains why he coaches him in one episode, picks him up from football, and shows up in the documentary episode when Nelson is playing basketball.
We've also seen Moe be a good father-figue/ good with kids from when he babysat Maggie. If the writers actually wanted to give Nelson some happiness, Moe as a father figure is perfect
they've made multiple recurring references to the fact that moe uses his spare time to read books to kids at libraries, community centers, and cancer wards. we've physically seen him get teary eyed while finishing a couple of books during these reading sessions, the one i can remember right now is "Little Women". Moe is good with kids and donates a lot of his time to kids programs and outreach, he just doesn't like other people talking about it and doesn't advertise it. moe's an alright guy. no class, but an alright guy.
I feel like there's a story in addressing the two clearly different Nelson's Dad characters - Soccer dad and Abandonment dad. Maybe his mum didn't know for sure which of these similar-looking men she slept with was actually the father and told them both they were at different (or the same) times to get support raising him, financial or otherwise, and during his early years he saw these men interchangeably/simultaneously as his dad. Maybe Abandonment dad stuck around more permanently but she continued and on-again/off-again thing with Soccer dad so he was around sporadically even after AD left. Maybe they had a polyamory thing going on for a while that didn't work out. Because you know what's more tragic than Nelson's dad leaving? Nelson having two dads who are equally important to him BOTH leaving in different ways.
Crazy how they kept flip-flopping on the design of his dad, the fact that each one has its own kind of characterisation too. It's so consistently inconsistent.
i would love to see a Top 10 or 20 best simpsons B plots/ opening set pieces. some of them are really fun, like the mayo clinic visit and homer selling sugar. a top 20 worst would be cool too, like that weird one when bart and lisa are obsessed w that balloon, it's maybe only 2 scenes
Yes that would be awesome! Here's my top 10 B-plots: - Pile of sugar - Maggie gets adopted by grizzly bears (cutest thing ever) - Maggie in the daycare centre - Homer's "Improve your vocabulary" hypnosis tape - Mr Sparkle - Uncle Moe's Family Feedbag - "Is my brother dumber than a hamster?" - Lionel Hutz, babysitter (aka Miguel Sanchez) - Grampa works in Krusty Burger - Luanne stops Bart from seeing Milhouse (I like that it goes for emotional rather than wacky)
@@alexneill8338 The pile of sugar wins for me, mostly for Homer's facial expressions during his rant. Especially at the end with "What's to be done with this Homer Simpson?"
“Imagine having a bad childhood and being stuck in it for 30 years” *laughs in PTSD* Seriously though, I love what the writers have done with Nelson over the years. He’s one of the most iconic secondary characters on the Simpsons and I do kinda hope he ends up with at least someone in his life he can turn to in more than just one episode, even if the rest of his life is pretty tough. There could be an interesting dynamic there and at the end of the day, you can’t help but want him to succeed in some way, or at least catch a break once in a while
Has she had any episodes that gave her some spotlight? I can’t remember her saying anything in any episodes and that’s a bit rude tbh. I can only remember sr hibbert talking even in episodes where she’s shown. But i can imagine she’s meant to be a lawyer just like the character she’s presumably based off - Claire Huxtable
You could easily upgrade Nelson's life and have Jimbo, Dulp & Kerny as the replacement characters. There have been a number of times where it is implied those 3 aren't living much better than Nelson but they are much less sympathetic. Nelson basically became Bart's other best friend and is far from the early seasons' bully character. He deserves something of a long-term win.
Top right looks a bit like Duffman without his sunglasses, and down and left of that appears to be a tanner Artie Ziff attempting to avoid being recognized.
I feel like Moe and Nelson could just get a few moments together without either character having to change. Nelson can care and be cared for by someone and Moe can show more of his fatherly side. Neither would have to fundamentally change if it's Moe as a mentor, we know Moe is pretty poor so it's not like it would really change Nelson's financial situation and Nelson wouldn't have to be nice to anyone else except Moe and his wife.
I am a big fan of both Moe and Nelson so I’m a big fan of the story idea, but I think taking it a step further and giving them a found family would work great. Moe getting married and adopting a child is the perfect found family group to do episodes around. If we’ve had a hundred Simpson family stories, why not 20 Szyslak stories
Moe would be an absent father figure as well. Outside of kid's hockey, he really doesn't have a home or stability himself so he can't really give what he doesn't have either. He's at Moe's Tavern almost always for 30+ seasons outside of that recent episode, so therefore he could potentially 'be' Nelson's dad as an absent father figure who eventually won't be able to be there and therefore maintain the 'status quo' of Nelson's backstory. I guess his coaching a kid's hockey team without being a dad himself was motivated by rivalry with the King Toot guy. Moe and Nelson initially establish a working relationship where ultimately Nelson wants more from his 'primary' which I think Moe appreciates when he realizes it but Nelson hanging out at Moe's bar seems like a worse or at least less legal option than a trailer with his mom.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 sometimes he's shown in flashback as being the same as homer, lenny and carl, sometimes he's shown as a teen while the others are still kids and there is one instance where there's a picture of him running an ice cream shop being an adult and showing the rest as kids.
@@matti.8465 I think the yeti was his mother and the circus freak was his father and that the Szyslaks from "King Leer" are his adoptive family. What do you think?
It should be noted that Nelson's grandfather is a judge whom has sent several to death row. It's not clear however whether the judge is his paternal or maternal grandfather.
16:54 Finally, thanks for someone remembering Ling! I don't know why they don't want to use her anymore, she could make more for Selma and her life! Also, i like the idea of Nelson working in Moe's Tavern, with him having a sketchy but caring mentor. I hope they don't mess the whole Moe and Maya thing, is such an exciting change and i don't want them to chicken out like with Edna and Skinner.
Wow, as an aspiring writer this video speaks to me, especially the topic of when to absolve characters of their problems. I love the late father figures of Nelson, it's a very captivating experimentation. I think good writing often tries to change the status quo for characters to good or even poor effect, and even here, in this “glacial-paced” endless sitcom, we see the sparks of imagination of the writers. I love to see characters change-or like here, try to. Thank you RealJims, this is my favorite video of yours yet.
I feel like Moe adopting Nelson would make both of them more interesting. Moe and Nelson have similar traits and I feel like Nelson being raised by Moe wouldn't ruin him at all! Imagine a centered episode of the two being together and Bart prank calls Moe. Like usual everyone laughs while he gets depressed instead of angry then add Nelson he can do a taken reference where he hunts down Bart for Moe. I feel Moe would teach Nelson so much stuff and Nelson would help Moe be finally happy with a son and a wife.
I'm an avid watcher of seasons 1-10 and no further, so I mostly miss a lot of the later arcs. But even with what I have seen, I wanted to see Moe and Nelson hang out. I always felt they made so much sense together. I am glad that was taken advantage of, and honestly would like to see that happen more even if I haven't seen much of recent Simpsons.
This is a very complex video. Truly a fantastic project! I definitely vote for Barney as Nelson’s true dad! They would be really fun together in my opinion. I also love how you squeezed in Nelson x Lisa. Still a fantastic ship. I definitely imagine Lisa cringing a little if either Moe or Barney has to walk her down at the isle though. That wedding would be wacky! Nelson is indeed a compelling character. I hope he does get his happy storyline one day!
I laughed at first when I saw the wall of Nelson's days but then I became sad when I saw that Bleeding Gums Murphy tried to be his dad/mentor. He didn't abandon him like the others, he died :( Also I would like to see a Simpson's mysteries episode about Kearny's age. How old is he suppose to be and he's still in grade school? lol
I think Moe and Nelson make a fun duo, even if its only for 1 (or a few) episodes. I don't think either work well as characters without their edges but seeing the two be happy and bond is a nice change from laughing at their expense
I think they should just keep cycling through Nelson father figures: the sea captain, superintendent Chalmers, duff man, Kirk Van Houten, Dr. Colossus, sideshow mel
I think one episode of nelson and mr burns would be so good, both of them throwing rocks at school kids from a limo while they both yell HaHa. They could even make it a big moment for nelsons character, have him start the episode wanting a father but after his time with burns falls appart he come out more confident in a "ha, i dont need him" moment. that allows them to keep the status quo while still paying off that storyline
"Another kid in Fort McMurrary" Oh geez! For those who don't know Fort McMurrary is the oilsands city in Alberta Canada, it has a reputation for being a "temporary" spot for a lot of people to live in while they make some quick money (temporary was in quotations for a reason)
Great episode, this! You raise some good points about the bind the writers are in. Love that the old fan theory was brought up, even if at the last moment.
yo realjims i know this doesn't really have to do much with this video specifically but i just want to say your videos are always a treat to watch and i look forward to your uploads, thank you for doing what you do :)
I like the idea of Moe and Nelson becoming something closer to father and son. Especially if they confirmed Barney was his father. If Barney ever goes back to drinking it'd be a nice bit of dramatic irony that he's so close, but so far from his father.
So is his last name (Muntz / Munts?) taken from his mother's maiden name? If they haven't given away his father's last name, it'd be an interesting reveal if his last name is Gumble (Or, however Barney's last name is spelled). This would also be a fascinating twist considering the recent Moe pairing. Moe has been helping aid the alcohol addiction to Nelson's dad's brother all these years
@@danielshaffer-green5684that sent me down a rabbit hole lol. I couldn't find snakes Cannon age but I found a reference to an episode where snake was 13 and Wiggum was 16. Wiggum was Also 16 when homers mom abandoned him and Homer was 9. Meaning snake is actually 4 years older than Homer. I could be wrong, I just googled and followed that chain of info but yeah I'm fairly sure. Homer needs to take better care of himself, dude look's like shit compared to snake lol
@@danielshaffer-green5684 yeah pretty crazy. According to meta ai snake has never hooked up with Nelsons mom but then it gave me a paragraph where it pretty much called her a ho without saying those exact words haha.
I didn't even know there was a s34 or that they brought back the lil woman, but that Nelson-Moe story seemed really wholesome. I wish the show ended already and let them be happy...
I could see it as a story and creative perspective to venture down the route of Moe and Nelson. Found it fun and we could see them fulfill each other's lives.
I hadn’t really thought about it until you pointed it out but you’re right: Nelson is probably the best developed character in the show outside of The Simpsons themselves, and maybe Mr. Burns. I did realize myself, though, that Nelson is kind of special. He is invariably more than the sum of his parts. I cannot think of a character in the show that he has interacted with that has somehow not benefited both characters by the dynamic. So yeah, I would like him to have a happy ending, or if not that, and I would like him to have some sort of recognition from the other characters. Even if it’s some thing, like realizing how vastly much worse he really should be all things considered. Just the fact that he is tortured soul and still manages to be mostly functional would be enough. And mow would be a great vehicle for that.
@@mahatmarandy5977 My headcanon has always been that after Gina gets out of juvie, she'll be adopted by Moe, as she's similar to him just like Nelson is, and she has no family. And then after she and Nelson start dating, he would come to live with them because he can't stand living with his mother. Do you think that's a good idea?
@@danielshaffer-green5684 Yeah, it’s not bad. The dating part is a little problematic because he’s only like 12 I think, so I can see why they wouldn’t want to head down that road except maybe in a flash-forward episode, but it’s not bad at all. In my own headcanon, Nelson ends up working with/for Lisa in the future. Nothing romantic, but they’ve just got a long history and they trust each other. So she ends up taking him with her in whatever she ends up doing later in life, and he’s protective of her. Basically he’s the brother Bart *should* have been to her. :)
Where I think Nelson and and Mr Burns could work is not as a son but as a grandson. Like He's Burn's heir, but Burns only wants so much to do with him. He'll occasionally give him a few dollars and advice being evil, maybe even comfort him if he's down. but he doesn't want the reasonability of razing a child. When Nelson tries to stay at Burns's house for more than a few minutes, he's on thin ice. But if Nelson does something very ambitious on his own, Burns will praise him.
With inconsistency of Nelson's father designs, it even looks like he has two simultaneously existing canonic dads: one that continues to fly off, and "sport" one, each with his own distinctive design and personality. Maybe it's "Mamma Mia" situation, they're both *possible* biological fathers, Mrs Muntz just never made her mind, which one is truly)) As with best father figure, variant with Moe feels like having most potential, simply because series latched on to Moe's miserable loveless life (and his fruitless crush on Marge) for too long, changing it without losing interest in his character by pairing him with another disastrous person may be good direction, even not necessarily getting in the way of his seemingly happy prospective marriage with Maya. Their collective dynamics can provide needed beta (dysfunctional) family narrative to main one, something series apparently kept to attempt in past with Edna-Skinner and then Edna-Flanders storylines.
I kind of like the idea of Nelson's real father being Barney, he already has two supposedly biological fathers, why not add a third?! I guess it would also add an interesting new element to Nelson's dynamic with Moe.
I think it would've been interesting if they'd made Moe Nelson's Uncle in the mid seasons Moe is definitely a mixed bag that would've worked in the long run being close but not always there for Nelson
I was surpiced to learn that Nelson's dad abandoned him so late in the series run. I somehow remembered his dad "leaving to get cigarettes" happening much earlier, like season 5 or 7
I think it’d be neat to have Nelson work part time at Moe’s. You don’t necessarily have to have a full episode about it, but I think you could get some decent mileage by having Nelson pop up in the bar from time to time.
Thanks for posting the names of artist for the background music! I've searched for the name of the background song to the Simpsons Mysteries for a while now, and finnaly found it thanks to this video :) Thanks a million!
Well now I have a whole pitch for a Moe and Nelson/Homer and Maya -> Homer and Lisa episode. I really enjoyed the new episode and I am here for more Top Goon discussion!
this made me think that broken people might need people like them, broken, someone who can actually relate, it sounds dangerous but its so poetic that might be plausible.
This episode really highlighted something I hadn't consciously realised before, but has absolutely been true of the Simpsons even during the Golden Era- there isn't really a sympathetic lower-income character. Both Nelson's parents and Cletus are treated as moral failures as part of the joke, and are otherwise flat characters. You could maybe highlight Lenny- but, really, the (one time) joke with him is that he lives like he does despite having a Nuclear Power Plant's middle-income wage, and goes to great pains to hide it. Nelson's kind of the closest we get. And even then his situation is treated more about being his Parent's moral failings, and not his own. After all, he's too young to actually earn money. It's entirely possible- and likely- I've forgotten someone, but I am getting this uncomfortable sensation of lower class = bad and deserving of it from the show now. Considering how long it's been going on, I'm surprised an episode that turns Nelson's Mum into a more layered character hasn't happened yet. She deserves it at this point
@@danielshaffer-green5684 Besides his childhood abandonment and constant bad luck- he had earned a Master's Degree in physics, and, well, throughout the episode, a decently paying job.
@@peterprime2140 fair enough. Nuclear power plant wages must be whatever Burns feels like at a given time. Either that, or he's still paying off student debt for his degree. Still- I think the point stands. Grimes is sympathetic because he represents the American ideal that poverty can be risen out of through hard work and grit. He subverts his situation with sheer determination, and isn't seen as a moral failure as a result. This in turn reflects badly on characters like Cletus and Nelson's Mum, because the show never suggests that their situation is ever anything further than their own depravity- drinking, child neglect, supposedly degrading job choices, etc etc I just think there's a whole angle left unexplored here, which for a show that is trying to wring out as much as it can from its characters at this point (by even sending Nelson to Mars), I feel it's odd that this particular angle hasn't really felt explored under a deeper light. I mean unless it has in some post-Golden Age episode I haven't seen, which, admittedly, isn't many of them
Given how they characterize Mrs Muntz, I wouldn't be surprised if the different depictions of Nelson's dad is because they're paternity candidates and Nelson isn't certain who his bio father is
Maybe Nelson's soccer coach dad is a different character from the nicer cigarette-disappearing dad? Maybe Nelson's soccer coach dad is his biological father who his mom divorced and his cigarette-disappearing dad is his step-dad? All his bumbling parents are still mostly absent without hiring a nanny and are busy doing their own adventures, errands and other crazy shenanigans as they are still coming from Springfield after all.
Just recently watched top goon and I do like the Nelson and Moe's chemistry (could even lead to a gag where Moe thinks Barney could be Nelson's Dad). There was also something I have been something I 've been noticing lately. We are seeing Krusty's daughter Sophie more and more, when are we going to have an episode where Sophie and Bart date for a one off episode (or could she be his perfect match?)
It's super fanfiiccy, but this kinda made me hanker for a Moe-Selma-Nelson-Ling combination. Hell, they could function as a whole family foil to the Simpsons, what with the antagonism between Selma & Homer and Nelson & Bart and even Moe & Midge. Keep going in the same direction with Ling as an overachiever to put her up against Lisa & Maggie and you have something that could be really interesting
Was expecting the opening to be "This is Nelson Muntz" with a stock picture of Nelson and then "This is Nelson Muntz's father with either a blank screen or a tree
The Moe Solution is my favourite, but the Flanders Solution definitely has appeal too. Nelson would absolutely challenge Ned to examine his strict parenting style. Nelson would absolutely challenge Rodd and Todd to get out in the real world - and protect them if they got in real danger (it would be very cute). Ned, Rodd and Todd would show Nelson that it's okay to be quiet and soft sometimes - SOMETIMES - no way is Nelson ever going full Flandey Also, they all have a deep connection already - Edna. I think that would be a really nice way to honor her memory
You are selling me on this idea and wish they attempted it now. I still worry that the arrangement could damage both character groups (since The Simpsons deals in stereotypes). But with a deft writing hand, they could get the best out of all the characters and present Ned with some new challenges. Would love an episode where, like, Todd likes hanging out with Nelson more than Rod
I think a satisfying end to this story would be a reversal. Bring Nelson's dad back, but let Nelson walk away from him this time. Maybe he even earns a little respect from his mom, because he said "no" when she couldn't. That would tie up this thread neatly, without fundamentally changing Nelson's character.
I like the idea of Chalmers or even Skinner. Two men with military backgrounds. Maybe Skinner grows a spine and Nelson remains aggressive but in an ocassionally more constructive way. Now instead of the back-ally bully, he's the bad hall-monitor bully.
I like to think that a potential candidate for Nelson's dad would be Snake. He's basically a more extreme version of Nelson and earlier versions of him could have worked as a deadbeat dad. Though since all the jokes about his kid and how much of a present dad he is for him, that headcannon doesn't really work anymore.
It seems the writers forgot that Nelson's grandfather is a judge. I would like to know how his dad became a deadbeat, and why Judge Muntz has never stepped in to advocate for his grandson.
Okay, now that we cleared up the mystery of Nelson's dad, there is only one logical next mystery video to make that I have always wanted the answer to. When is my dad coming home from getting cigarettes?
I always thought since we never saw his father and they look similar… that Nelson’s dad was Snake. It made sense to me when I was younger. I still wonder if he or Herman weren’t meant to be possibly his father earlier on.
@@danielshaffer-green5684 I don’t think Homer and Marge necessarily look their supposed ages. Besides, what’s to say Snake couldn’t have started young?
@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting I guess it could work in theory. I'm pretty sure Nelson is supposed to be like 12, while Snake's age is never confirmed, but he appears to be in his late 20s. That would mean that he had Nelson when he was highschool-aged, which definitely isn't out of the question, especially considering the kind of person that he is.
I feel like rich Nelson would end up being similar to Montana Max on _Tiny Toons_ , which is a character that might also flourish in the _Simpsons_ universe.
