My Sinn 104 with white face has become my go to. Love it. At the end of the day we should pay for what sparks emotion in us, not for some perceived value in a name brand, or in some vain attempt to impress. I have more expensive timepieces but nothing hits the mark better for me.
I bought my black face as I just totally fell in love with it...it’s gorgeous...seeing it for the first time made me say “wow” out loud (when I was on my own!!!!) 🤭
This watch made me sell all my others because I wouldn't wear them anymore. The Sinn 104 turned me into a one-watch-guy! I wore this while while skydiving, diving, swimming in the ocean, exploring the jungle, chilling at lake Baikal at -30C... It's a bit scratched up now but I would never sell it! For me, it's the perfect every-day-watch...
@@thepatientcollector3769 That’s friggin cool. I always did look at the 104 as a hybrid. Aesthetics of a pilot with the size, screw down crown and water resistance of a diver. IMO, I think I’m going to love this watch.
You can find them almost-new for ~1000USD. I've been wearing mine for a year now on a NATO (it is a strap monster) and have no complaints. I'm a pilot and it gets banged around the cockpit quit a bit and it still looks brand new, great lume, and keeps excellent time (within 5 seconds a day). This watch reminds me of a good pair jeans - wear it with a tshirt to do yard work, jump on your motorcycle for a ride, throw on a blazer and go out for drinks. The 104 isn't flashy but "watch people" will definitely notice it. Would definitely buy again!
@Boost , honestly I have to swedge my left arm down between the seat and center console which are both metal to adjust the seat. Easy to scratch up the bezel because it rubs.
Very good review and I appreciate the fact that the question is being raised and commented on about the value proposition. It would be good to better understand what specifically are the limiting factors of the Sellita movement relative to the ETA. What in actuality would one experience from a negative perspective with the Sellita movement? Greater inaccuracy? Higher degree of wear over time? Increased service costs? What are the actual tangible negatives? Might be good to have a review that focuses on that aspect as it would be very informative. Thanks for the review of this watch as I'm considering one.
I’ve own the 104 (for the past few years), it is practically a perfect watch, only real letdown is the movement, as this watch wants to be constantly worn, if not it will dramatically loose time, however it is very versatile and I have worn on many holidays (on various nato style straps) as my only watch and it proved to be an exceptional timepiece.
Definitely needs a lot of movement to keep the mainspring fully wound. I have to take give it a few swirls morning and night (on top of wearing it all day) to keep it in the upper end of power reserve.
Having owned the 104 for 3 years now, i wondered if it was just my watch being so in need for movement.. But i definitely agree with you, worn it nearly every day since I've owned it, very versatile indeed!
Looking at reviews for this model 3 years later in 2022. Is it worth purchasing for around 1,720 USD now based on long term ownership? I was looking into the 556 line when I came across this model with an anthracite dial and my focus changed. Lol! Beautiful watch! Thanks for any info and enjoy new additions to the collection! Eric
Great choice with the mesh bracelet. I don't like the stock brown leather with that contrast stitching, it just doesn't go. The style is a bit blocky for me, but I love the cursive font "Automatik" on the dial.
Nice video as always ! Definetely considering a Sinn in my collection. Probably the 103 though. Your bracelet seems very well finished. Could you share a link to the seller ? Is it the one from Gekota ?
Hi Bruce, great review as usual. I caught your review of the white dial Damasko (from 2015!) and wondered how this compared to that watch? Can you even remember?! Cheers.
IMO the price point is a lot more compelling on Sinn’s offerings with proprietary tech (tegimented steel, dehumidifying tech, etc). Also in the 856/7 range they get amazing performance out of the 2893, I have one that runs at +1/day. The look might not be for everyone though. Cheers
Hey Bruce, thx for your honesty. I will hear some flack for this question but here goes: What’s your opinion on one of the premium Steinhart Divers vs the Sinn 104? I’m especially thinking about what the watches offer in quality vs the cost differential. Thx. Be well.
I love those bi-directional bezels with detents. I actually think I would be comfortable using that as a dive watch. The detents seem secure enough to me to prevent unintentional movements of the bezel. Nice review Bruce!
Hi Bruce, it would be nice for watch enthusiasts to know ultimately weather there is a difference between the two but I don't think we'll ever come to a conclusion, anyway it was nice to see someone had the courage to throw that out there you really did throw the gaulent down for debate.
Thanks Bruce, I value your opinion on this piece. I’ve wanted one for a few years and watched the price go up and up. I’m starting to think Sinn is pricing itself out of the market with this one.
I think if you were to make a video comparing sellita and eta movements would be an awesome video especially if you could get watchmakers to chime in on the topic. It Would be helpful to let people know what they are buying just because things are similair they are not the same.
$1330 on strap in the US now. I love mine. It is so versatile and does everything well. I dont mind the SW but i dont really get why it is on display. I think a nice solid caseback with perhaps a bit of decoration suits it better
Do you know if you bought the satin or polished mesh bracelet? I love it dude, i like how thick it is. Do you have and issues with your clasp? I'd prefer the one you have unless there are reasons to get the push clasp
Hi Bruce! Could you please do an updated video on strap and bracelet opinions? That mesh looks great, I’d love to learn more about it and see other options!
It's a polished 20mm mesh from the German brand 'staib' they are pricey but are really great quality. I have to send this 104 back today but I would buy one for the right price in the future
I'm not fond of mesh bracelet but for this particular watch it doesn't look shabby at all . I like the way Sinn implements the script character in Day / Date and other watches as well. . It's edgy not roundish which I like a lot .My only gripe would be lack of ceramic bezel regardless in this price point .
I agree with your assesment on the movement and exactly why I purchased an Oris Aquis on the fantastic leather band and it's very unique clasp, ceramic bezel, applied indices etc. Also has a Sellita movement but I got it for a far better price and I do agree the Sinn for me is overpriced for what you get... Excellent review, enjoyed it...
Good historical legacy behind ETA. I have a lot of Schild movements in old Girard Perregaux watches. The precursors ( Urs Schild and Josef Girard) or founders of ETA
Love my 104, left out many key features about this watch. Domed Sapphire crystal, AR coating both sides. Sapphire crystal on the display back AR coated one side. Count down bezel ( which i find more useful then my divers bezel,as I don't scuba dive). The fact that Sinn has made a Pilots watch water resistant to 20 bar. Ill take these features over having an ETA 2824-2. I do however like the bracelet in the video.
why do you find the countdown bezel more useful? i don't have one (yet) but i just don't understand it. it can basically be used only when you have a 60 minutes period to time. substracting minutes when i want to simply cook an egg sounds pretty impractial to me.
@@viktorreiter8811 I use it all of the time for tracking time. It seems impractical but I assure you the bezel on a diver is even more impractical. I use it when I put a load of laundry in, when I’m cooking something in the oven. My Zinn has been my most reliable watch. Although it’s due for service as it’s losing some time.
The brown strap looks awesome and I prefer it to the Mianese strap. Does the strap come with the quick release spring bar? I love the double action bezel. That's not seen on too many models. I know you like the ETA / Selitta movements but what do you think of the NH Movements or of the Miyota 9 series Movements? These are from Seiko / Citizen and in my experience, they are solid workhorses, keep great time and overall fantastic mechanisms. At US$1500, you're right - it's too expensive (at least for me).
Great looking watch, though I wish it was available without day/date. I think the handset, indices and writing on the face are all perfect, and would work just that much better without those complications. Basically need a 104 + 556 hybrid.
The 105 has the same overall look (case, indices & hands - I think the hands are the same) but with a date-only complication at the 6 o'clock position for a simpler, gloriously symmetrical look.
Hopefully you know why the sallita is utilized. Also maybe in another video you can provide practical evidence and technical reasoning why the ETA is “better”.
The Sinn 104 is a superb watch. As a brand Sinn do offer superb design and quality for prices which are very reasonable by the standard of good watches. To be clear you can get a perfectly good watch for a lot less than one of these, but if you do buy a Sinn 104 you are unlikely to feel short changed or regret it. With Sinn there is substance there and I do believe the quality and design justify the price. And that is certainly not a given for pricey watches.
I really do like the 104's, and I really like the new blue dial version. But, when it comes to the cost with a bracelet, and you're going to want to get it on the bracelet since you really can't buy one later by itself, you're looking close to $1700.. from WatchBuys which is I think the only authorized retailer for Sinn and a lot of other German watches. And, on the 2nd hand market, I'll say they hold their value quite good.. often selling pretty close to new retail price from what I last looked. As such.. IDK,?.. there's a lot of other watches I could get for less, about as much or pay more towards something better before I could commit to buying a 104.. so close, but when I look at other available options, I'm not jumping at the nearest opportunity to buy one and probably would rather get something else at this time in my watch collecting journey.
Ive had my eye on the piece for quite some time now and finally just purchased. Used market, on bracelet, you are looking at the $1150-$1250 price range and on strap, roughly $900-$1000, on both accounts in mint condition.
Consider buying from Iguana Sell UK. that's where I got my Sinn 104 on an h-link bracelet. They are asking 1060 pounds which is about $1,365 USD. They are based in Spain but shipped to me in Australia, by-passing the sole Sinn dealer in my country that is trying to charge $1,580 USD for the same piece. I didn't have an issue with customs charges either but do your homework. Iguana Sell says they take care of the import fees and also offer free shipping.
Although I only own cheap watches, I certainly don't think this watch is "over-hyped". It's a great watch with a distinct, simple, and classy look to it. When you see it, you know what it is. People below have mentioned other brands like Steinart and Oris. Those are similar quality for less money but I just like this watch better and wouldn't mind paying a little extra to have it.
2 years late to the party :-) Just wanted to comment on the Oris... I dont think they are of same quality. I hear a lot from Oris movement issues (and I am not talking about jumping hands). I think the Sinn is the better, more reliable pick, the Oris has a bit more "Style", not sure what exactly it is...
I have had a few Sinn watches. A 103, 104, 556, and UX EZM2B. The only one I have held on to is the UX it is a true beast of a tool watch....the others not so much.
I've owned two Sinn watches, U1 and 556. I was incredibly disappointed with the 556... felt like a $300 watch. The U1 was great, but sold it after owning it 2 years... it was just a little too big and way too heavy as my taste in watches matured. It did love the U1's lego-style hands... very unique. I would wear the Sinn U1 into luxury watch stores, partly because I used it to test the dealer/salesman's watch knowledge, and would often get comments about it and talk about Sinn. I own/owned Rolex, Omega, Sinn, Seiko, Fortis, Squale... in the end I've learned to only buy watches I'm willing to pay a $500 service charge for every 5-10 years.
Hey Bruce, who is your watch guy in SLC? I'm just getting started collecting watches and I want to find a good shop where I can have my watches serviced. I live in SLC and if you have any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
They were allowed to taper it down and it would be re-assessed in the future. They are still required to produce a certain number for sale outside the Swatch group every year
I've borrowed the 556i but agree the a version on h link is my pick. I tried to get sinn to make a blue and anthracite sunburst versions. Ones with applied markers or tegimenting. Even sent them photoshop mock ups. Rob at watchbuys blew it off last year. Now they are releasing the same colors on the 104 and going full tegimenting on the satinized 856 lol
I hear what you are saying about this Sinn 104. I think at $1,100-$1,200 this would be a tough watch to beat. At $1,500 + it's getting into another price category such as Tudor. But what dive/aviation style watch is better in the $1,400- $1,600 price range? It's really a hard category to buy in. Lots of great watches $700-$1,000 and then again in the $2,000-$2,500 price category.
Laco has several dive/aviation style watches (Mojave, Amazonia, Atlantik, Himalaya) in the $1100 range and all have ETA 2824-2s in them. Also, Damasko (DA42, DA44) at the $1400 price point. Again, ETA movements. I think Bruce is very on-point to question the use of a Sellita at the price point that Sinn is asking. Christopher Ward uses the SW-200 and variants for watches that cost 60% of what the Sinn does.
@@Lee_K_5555 Yes, I see your point about about this Sinn if you believe the ETA is a better movement than the Sellita. Sinn uses or has used the ETA in their less expensive 556 for a long time so I would assume Sinn has the belief that the Sellita is on par with ETA. I have no proof one way or the other. I know of and have heard watchmakers on RU-vid give an opinion for and against the Sellita compared to the ETA's.
It's a decent watch. Imo, it's a confused identity with full polished case. Is it trying to be tool watch or dress watch? Could have been much better with satin finish
I agree. Its a great watch but not the best and maybe just a little over hyped. I got mine a couple of years ago and it was definitely a better value. At 1500.00+, there might be a few other watches I would consider first. Great video Bruce. BTW, off topic I know, but what are your feelings on the reissue of Omega Cal 321? Cheers.
Thanks Steve. I am really glad Omega is resurrecting it. I'm excited to see how they tie it in to the 50th anniversary of the landing this year. Though I'm worried it will be a limited run that will end up way out of my price range haha
Great video Question guys and gals I see alot of people saying great things about Sinn watches Is it true that they use cheap Chinese movements? and mediocre swiss made movement ? how's the quality and craftsmanship? how does this compare to a tag heuer aquaracer or a longines hydroconquest or tissot Seastar? and hows the resale value? how long have you had yours ? how to hear from you guys Thank you
I can get an Orient chronometer calibre for this price. I can also get the SW200-1 chronometer for less in the Formex' essence. But dang, that is a good looking watch.
Solid reliable watch, you either love or hate style of 104. The 104 is fitted with the Top grade movement which is improved version of Sellita 220 . This means the £150 movement becomes more like £275 movement with better spec. There are several articles where watch makers speak very highly of this Top grade and how it can be very well regulated.
I’d like to hear some names from you of all the other watches in the $1,000-1,500 dollar range that isn’t using Selita. I know damasko used ETA, but I can’t think of many/any others using ETA in that price range. Oris is selita. Not sure about TAG, Longines and some others. Christopher ward used selita. I don’t know any brands outside of Damasko in that $700-$2,000 range using ETA to be honest. I also believe the Sinn 104 uses the top grade selita movement rather than just elabore
I’m pretty sure Baume & Mercier uses ETA movements. I got a Classima chronograph several years ago with the Valjoux 7750 and it only cost me $1100 if I remember correctly.
I've always wanted either a Sinn 556 or a 104, but I recently bought a Nodus Contrail 39 and it's like a more visually interesting Sinn 556. I absolutely love it and it saved me a lot of $ in the long run. I still lust after a Sinn U1 though.
Very different watches. I owned the 051 and currently own the 053 as well. I sold the 051 and am in the process of selling the 053. I decided to sell both of these timepeices for the Sinn 104. I jumped the gun a little and ordered the 104 already, it will be delivered tomorrow. I think I will be much happier with the 104 over the SBDC’s.
Whats going on with ETA? Are they really doing so much restriction of sales as I've heard? What choice do some of these watch makers have if ETA won't sell them the volume of movements requested but to go with Selita? Just curious. Cheers.
The aesthetic of this watch is unique. It has a very masculine "precision instrument" look about it. The polished case gives it some sparkle, which in my opinion lends the watch a measure of pizazz. It is not cheap, true, but for people who fall for its looks, it is hard to find anything that matches it. One either "sees" this or not.
104 is a pretty watch, but everyone's 104 I have seen in person is a scratch magnet. The aluminum bezel requires a ceramic upgrade... it's 2020 for Bismarck's sake!
How about the availability of Sinn in the US? Do you guys even have a Sinn store or just online? I tried the 104 on at my local botique and quite liked it. Back than it was just 1150 Dollars but they really lose their mind at this piece. Getting way to expensive. A Sinn you should definitly try is the 144. My father owns one and it is just beautiful designwise as well as quality!
Sadly they are an online exclusive to watchbuys. Only way to go see on in person is at one of their periodic traveling roadshows that only go to a couple cities a year
Got mine pre owned with the h-link bracelet, a very decent quality nato, box, papers and all and with shipping for slightly over $1k. Can’t complain, at that price point it’s hard to beat
Took me a while track it at that price, but it’s doable if one is patient and determined enough. I highly recommend giving it a go if the design language speaks to you because the quality is there. I’m having fun with mine, that’s for sure 🙂
I agree, also from my humble experience with both, I found Selita a bit less ,,stable,, than the ETA. I did not have reliability issues, but on accuracy the ETA watches I have (mostly Hamilton) are just more stable in time keeping, as in less prone to drifts from positioning or other factors like shock and temperature. I like the Sinn, they are very good quality, but to be honest at that pricepoint I see many things I don’t like: Selita movement, painted screws, no antimagnetic resistance, etc.
I just picked up a Sinn 104 (white dial) last week and was surprised by how well the SW-220 movement keeps time. Annicdodaly it has only lost 1sec per day. Also love the dimensions of the watch, but wish it came on a stock mesh bracelet like in your review.
My Oris Aquis gains 6 seconds a day. My Sinn St 104 also gains 6 seconds a day. Both have Sellita movements. I am happy with the Aquis but not so much with the Sinn. I think the Aquis is a better looking watch and accuracy isn’t a problem with that watch as it never gets worn more than two days at a time. I like accuracy which is why I wear a Rolex. I wear the Sinn as well as the Rolex because the Rolex doesn’t have a date. The Sinn is a nice watch but I don’t use it as a timepiece, just a day/date reference.
If I owned one, I would take it to my watchmaker and pay for the multi-position regulation, and maybe some upgrades. I, like you have been spoiled by excellent accuracy from the likes of Rolex, Omega, and Breitling.
The Oris is an elabore grade, the Sinn is a top grade, which is the same as the chronometer minus the multi-position timing adjustments. My 104 gains 8 seconds per month when worn daily...it's crazy accurate. However, once the mainspring gets to half power reserve, it's between +4 to +5 SPD.
Tbh I agree with you Rob... Sellita isn't as good as an eta, on the basic movements. (Based on personal handling of eta2824 and sellita sw200 & 210-equipped watches and how the movement-operation - like winding, time setting etc. tended to feel). Cannot say much about the STP 1-11 alternative yet.
ETA vs. Selllita: Swatch in 2019 decided not to sell ETA movements to manufacturers outside its partnerships. Sellita has been in the business for 70 years and provided ETA with components and refined their raw movements. Both ETA and Sellita provide their movements with various specifications, for instance, how they are regulated. This is a more significant issue than the question about ETA or Sellita.
Given that ETA movements are not easy to source, you would have that knock on most watches out there ;) Personally I'm not a fan of the full polish and lug shape but otherwise it is a good watch. Great? Yeah. Best in price range? No
it doesn't have the heritage or the ETA movement.. that's a so what for me. I have blue dial 104 on strap and it's a 10! Stunning to look at and keeps +3 sec/day. Youd be very hard pressed to get anything close at 1300.. paying $5-7k for a watch with bigger name but lesser specs doesn't make sense to me. Unless it's an OP, that is
