Skinny Puppy Live - Recording a Better Bootleg 

Those stories are the pieces that makes music even more interesting, or giving canned recordings sudden life. Thanks Ken again for sharing so much. Cheers

These videos make Fridays even better

this is so good! Thank you Ken for sharing this!

The sound on that album is killer! Thanks for sharing!

I went to my first SP concert in '86 and have always had so many questions about their production techniques. I'm a hobbyist bedroom producer and just discovered your channel and it's an effing goldmine. Thanks for your vids!

Thanks for discussing this iconic song. I can totally hear what you are talking about between the first and second verse and by the chorus it sounds great.

BRAP

I remember seeing Ken's videos having like 500 views. Now it's about 2000 and it's fantastic! This guy deserves more exposure!

I always wondered why it did not sound like a mixing desk recording. Now i know why. :-P

Thank you again for making these videos :)

Incidentally, I used to be a bench tech for Showco back in the 90's and got to know the gentleman who was FOH on Last Rights and he was kind enough to let me copy a board DAT from the S.F. show. Also, a properly flat tuned PA will usually yield better board mixes. As for the room heavy sound with the portable recorders, The Zoom H6 has a M/S mic head that helps considerably with that issue. Much love Ken, awesome episode!!!

I've been collecting bootleg concerts since the early 90s. For local shows, I used to plug a mini-disk recorder into the mix desk. Wasn't the greatest, but it did result in some gems. 🤘

"Bad" at the beginning makes it sound live. ;-) Thanks so much for sharing your hard-won wisdom with the world.

This is great! I always wondered why live recordings always had so much background noise, now it all makes sense.

What an awesome video! Thanks so much for sharing. Confirmed many of my thoughts on soundboard recordings.

Fantastic as usual.

Easily my favorite SP song. These are so enlightening! Thanks Ken!

Ahh yesss Holy HiWatt Friday!!! This sounds amazing! Normal I would say I can’t believe how good it sounds.. but it’s the perfect storm of artists and that includes you Sonic Sensei! Thanks for the tips

I really appreciate the videos you make man.

Love that story Ken!

Another great episode. Started sweating just from imaging turning to a reset mixing desk... Lol.

Of course I hadn't noticed on this recording but hearing the mix progress like that, Ohgr's vocals dry and distant evolve to thundering during the chorus, just incredible, great mix Ken, thanks for sharing these tips.

Pure gold!

Wow, I was wondering why it was missing that Binge, Cringe.. Thank you for this story! And "SP Live: Bootlegged.. " is my most played SP album! 🖤🖤🖤🖤 I'd love to see your video about "Greater Wrong of the Right Live"!!!!

Very interesting! I always when looking for live shows look for soundboard, now I know better, I had no idea that Skinny Puppy live recordings were from the audience. I always wondered why the heck anybody would mix the audience sounds into the final product. Now I know. Skinny Puppy live recordings are ace. Worlock turned out great, even the mixing error at the beginning with Ogre "struggling" sounds so unique I wouldn't have it any other way. Skinny Puppy sounds so good live, I was fortunate to see them once. It was one of the best shows I've ever seen and a dream come true. Keep up the good work, and release more Skinny Puppy live shows! :)

That recording sounded fantastic! Subscribed!

The first time I listened to "Bootlegged..." and its FAT great sound I thought you guys recorded it on some portatile devices on purpose and finally did a matrix. On later listening sessions I noticed the mixing desk part. Awesome. I absolutely LOVE this recording.

It's not a bootleg unless you had to sneak the recorder into the gig in your pants 😜 Ps. My rig was Sony TCD-D8 and CoreSound Cardiods. 90s and early 2000s were amazing days for bootleg trading

Nice!! Great session Ken

What a fantastic live recording Ken! I've done FOH work and had to scramble before and you really pulled it together quickly like the pro that you are. Cheers!

.Great informative video on the greatest band...long time fan,always..Brap on!

Thamk you Bud😎😀 Love Warkock and Morpheus Laughing...Love the Puppiez

thanks so much again for these videos.

I love your enthusiasm

worlock is hands down my favorite skinny puppy song ever. i first really got into skinny puppy when i was 12/13 and the process came out the next year, so i never thought i'd ever get to see them live. but then gwotr comes out and that tour happened. so the first time i saw skinny puppy live in chicago on the first leg of that tour. and seeing worlock performed was probably the most cathartic experience of my life

Thanks, Ken!

Great video, thanks! Man, I would have been furious if someone messed with my board when I hadn't given them the "nod" to take over. That was very unprofessional of whomever did that.

solid advice! so glad i found your channel :)

What a treat. I've loved this song for ages.

It’s crazy. I was just listening to that the other day and I’ve always wondered to myself what happened. As a fellow studio/engineer dude, I respect others in this position. Thank you for this video and thanks for explaining what happened! Keep the videos coming!!!!

What an amazing walkthrough. Thanks, Ken! i often find myself wishing i could accurately and organically record the spontaneous shenanigans my friends get up to (Tibetan bowl drums, handheld acoustic percussion around a campfire or wherever) with easier, 'on-the-fly' methods. i hadn't given these handheld recorders much thought, but after this session, i really think i should take a second look at what the tech can offer. Gratitude.

Loving your channe btwl!! With 20 years FOH/production I was like yeah obvious. obvious. obvious. obvious. OOH HUH? [head cocked; ears perked; tongue hangs drool dripping stupid grin forming] ....only "certain" elements for supplemental presence you say??...THAT Makes Sense!!! Thank you for another AMAZING set of tools + tips ....I'll add that I've used a lot of portable digital recorders: Sony, Morantz, Tascam, JVC, Nakamichi, Akai + Aiwa [just to name a few] and for ease of use and 'affordability' the old M-Audio MicroTrack ii and many of the zoom models have delivered useable professional results....but like you said that's only IF: the barometric pressure is ideal in relation to maximum club capacity recording threshold premium; the air moisture total saturation is at or around 50% w/an avg temp of 22.2222°C; and, the requisite planetary conjunctions are equal to-or within less than .01°arc-peak syzygy. And this of course also assumes other celestial bodies are in 'their' appropriate transits and occultations, Mercury is NOT in retrograde and all the voices in your head have shut the f*** up. NOTE: Only applies to those voices transmitting from the 17 US intelligence agencies and their counterparts in US-allied and/or client states - others can be ignored but you still likely need medications. So yeah when all that is lined up, you have a 30:70 percent chance of getting it "right". Gold and/or releasable quality also requires deep fate, which is dependent on things like quality of coffee at or around the venue and most importantly if the a/c is working in the tour vehicle[s]. Still, it can't hurt to perform your favorite bloodletting ritual, doing the hokey pokey [avoidiing the hokey "cokey"] putting your left foot in [your mouth] and taking your right foot out [the closet] and finally, "Turing" yourself around - just say'n. ;)~ ...sorry couldn't help it.... ...eaten by the monster of tech humor [I think it's my coping mechanism for processing stressful situations like FOH+recording event, which may be another factor to consider - d0h¡]

I've had that exact same recorder since it first launched! I had no idea it was used on that live Puppy album. Amazing! It's great for on-location no-budget film work. (Pickups are a tad noisy, though. Don't expect it to cleanly record things like crickets chirping.) Thanks for pointing the spotlight at my favourite Skinny Puppy song.

While I never recorded any bootlegs myself, I ran a fansite called One Time One Place in the late 90s/early 2000s which as time went on focused more and more on sharing mp3s of Skinny Puppy bootlegs. I had entire shows up for download and I am certain the band did not mind since I even got linked to from the official Skinny Puppy site. As the site gained traction though and several gigabytes of data passed through it in notime I could no longer afford the server space (remember this was almost 20 years ago) and I packed it in.

I was at this gig :)

I bought a Zoom recently for EVP/paranormal research. But I'm also excited to use this for capturing some good audio from concerts in the future. 😁

Because, as Rhys Fulber once tweeted, "Warlock" never gets old.

Awsome video, Ken! I love Worlock and that version in particular. It´s so odd. And now, thanks to you and your story, i know why!

Its really jumping into high gear at the chorus! 🖤 From zero settings to full Hiwatt standardz!

Still got a bootleg made in 1988 when I first saw them live. Was recorded with a walkman, those were the days! BTW it has this vintage bootleg quality as you might have guessed :) BTW2 Yes I think Worlock is Skinny Puppys anthem.

I don't suppose I could get a copy lol... I know you can't share, just thought I show how jealous I am!! Great share, man!

Ha, I've always dreamed of going to Mera Luna! As always, super grateful for this content! Keep it up, Ken! 👍

That's about what I came to as well as it's a bit of voodoo with the handheld recorders and matrix mixing for sure. As FOH I've done a couple hundred or so recordings, some with zoom type handhelds as 4 channel like you did, had matched over heads put in the ceiling at center of the room triangulated to mains into 4 channels record. I'd try all sorts of combinations of those things with matrix/sub mixes, board feed and all that. The best solution I found, at least since I was in my own room for a few years, a board that runs as multichannel ASIO in any DAW and yeah...the dreaded laptop (which isn't so bad actually). If touring and recording I make it a point to make it clear about the need, even if it's not a requested part of the hire, citing the importance of documenting if nothing else and then when the band hears what we have to work with after, it's entirely possible to get hired for a post mix later. The M32 and X32 both can supply independent direct outs straight to any DAW. I've found building a matrix mix is also too time consuming, you still can't pay enough attention to it and have to make these once in a location based decisions about it while trying to take care of the band on stage and the crowd in front of the PA, so it was rarely how I wanted the mix to be committed to tape anyway, especially if on some festival shotgun stage slots. After the show, in a treated room with studio monitors or on the bus with good pair of cans to start worked better for me and at least I can use my choice plugins if I'd like to carve a certain sound out of the recording. And since I mixed the show live already, the mix is pretty quick to come back together anyway. You can even have all your channels named and dedicated when touring with a band so after the first couple of gigs you've got it all dialed and saved with the channel strips you decided on. Then I'm not under the gun for any of the recording. It only takes a few minutes to open the laptop, get PT loaded with a pre-designed recording template, plug in 1 USB cable and I'm ready to record up to 32 channels. The only difference is you really have to keep your channel levels from jumping past -6 or you'll get clips unless you can run a 32bit float in the DAW. Add a mono or stereo capture of the crowd to mix back in to the dry main mix when polishing in post. The mix is your oyster....at your time of choosing after the show!

Great encore story, live sound is rarely uneventful. It’s amazing how many people don’t realize that live board mixes rarely make good production mixes. I’ve done a couple live recordings but we used mic splitters, our own snake, interface daw etc. We separated ourselves from FOH and stayed completely out of their way. This was in a small club, very lo-fi, but it worked. I just picked up a Zoom Q2n-4K (with the camera), sounds great but it’s only two channels. I’ve used just its mic’s for jams and it’s really impressive for what it is. Lately I’ve been sending a board feed to it’s line input and recording my backyard, headphone, Covid-19 Dystopian Drone Noisecape jams with my friend. It took a couple jams to realize that any signal above -6dB will clip the Zooms input. Once I kept things under that it sounds good. Love the channel and shout out from East Van.

My rig is a Sony PCM-a10 with Core Sound stealthy cardiodis (battery box included).

One of the few (the only?) recorders you can overdub Captured some nice Loon song on a canoe trip with some Omni pencils

I’ve got a few Zoom Recorders. They’re great for field recording samples. Thanks for the tips on bootlegging.

Got the zoom HD720 I find the height even by inches changes the sound stacks... when I record an amp and kit jam.

Ken, if they'd let you do a show on the vocal effects of Warlock, I think that would make for a tremendous tutorial.

Great video! I've actually thought about buying one of these zoom recorders. Now I need to. 😄

I've got a Tascam recorder similar to that. One thing I like about it is that it has the option to record multiple stereo tracks at once...one with the standard input level and another that is padded a few db less. Thanks for this video! I was waiting for you to wrap a deadcat over your recorder. ;)

Ken, would love to know your experience in working with Thought Industry. It's still on of my favorite things you've done.. Take care. Ryan

I came here to figure out how to use the microphone recording. That’s what bootleg means. This guy is running a 24 channel matrix send. If you have access to the Mix Board, then it’s not a bootleg.

Wow, this episode opens up so many questions I have. Like, what was it like to mix the "back and forth Series 4" that has the "too dark Park" stuff on it. Like "tin omen" Where the beginning starts with a clearly bootleg recording and then goes into a front of house. How much of those recordings was actual front of house? And how much over dub. Another question I have is you did the livemix for "greater wrong of the right (live)" DVD, right? If that's so I wanted to ask. In the live versions of some of those songs for instance "warlock". You can clearly hear The album version of the vocals being overdubbed. Was ogre's mic just not working that night, or was it some other reason?

Very educational. I hadn't thought about how hard it would be to get a good recording off the soundboard. Do you ever tour with SP or do you just live engineer the big stuff?

Should have included Ogre's mic soundcheck you did in Gothenburg on the album. He just went off on a "sumerian death spell" rant.. 😄 "suhb-buhd-khe-litz-..." ❤️

Awesome video 👍 Ken, were you in any of the Download album cover art? Like photos, etc? It's been years since I had my collection stolen and I was just having a random thought 😂

Most places Pat you down before going in. So taking that in wouldn't be allowed unless you can hide it really well.

If possible, how would you turn a studio recording into something that sounded recorded live like this? Asking for a friend.

I love you to death and I hate criticizing this, and I find the techniques and information regarding this specific process to be fascinating, and I definitely understand your points, however, I do have to point out that I am not a fan of Bootlegged, Broke and In Solvent Seas. This opinion is also influenced by the fact that live material for SP is practically a barren desert with seeds begging for water. The mix is sort of boomy and not very car-subwoofer freindly. Ogre's mask that tour also was very restricting of his voice as well. If I view it as a bootleg, I consider it 100% definitive of a fantastic bootleg mix, and some tracks are much closer to a "soundboard" feel than Worlock in particular, but as a live album, it is lacking in comparison to, for example, the TDP live material on Brap 4, which is extremely clear. The live sound on Skinny Puppy is frankly the best I have ever heard at any show. Especially Shapes for Arms tour. I recall Pasturn making my stomach churn with the bass, despite being perfectly clear for being as loud as it was. I sincerely intend no offense because my point boils down to that this doesn't actually do the mixing and live sound you obviously help to create justice. My presumption from your information leads me to believe we sadly won't get any additional live material from years past (some glaring oversights are the CBC radio recording and only selections from an apparent TDP tour recording appearing on Brap 4), my sincere hope is that if and when Puppy tour again, some additional hands are brought on board to capture a more detailed live performance without the use of a hand-held recorder. Heck, I am sure many fans would be happy to pay for soundboard recordings, even if they are dry, sterile, or not polished. You're in a position to stress this is something fans view as highly desirable. The live shows also represent a fantastic introduction to people who don't know much about the band. We want a Skinny Puppy live blu-ray!

Hey, I would like to send you our latest CD, is that possible?