Skyrim - Are Argonians WEAK? - Elder Scrolls Lore 

Daedra: we're invading argonians: no, *we're* invading

Me: *won't listen for 5 minutes in a school history class* Me: *uses free time to watch a 23 minute video on the history of a fictional race of lizard people*

The world: floods Argonians: we are inevitable

What’s an argonian’s favorite school subject? Hist tree

What sounds better, being a walking crocodile/alligator who is immune to most poisons or being a walking kitten who can be easily addicted to crushed sugar

Mehrunes Dagon: *opens numerous portals from a hellish alter-dimension, unleashing screaming hordes of nightmarish creatures into Black Marsh* Hist-drunk Argonians: "It's free real estate" *proceed to slaughter all the daedra and reverse-invade the hellscape of Oblivion*

Personally, I think this is building up to the argonians just going batshit crazy and suddenly becoming powerful and invading tamriel.

I guess Argonians became slaves because it was the will of the Hist, slaves are shipped everywhere, and because the Hist can connect to all Argonians, they are the perfect spies (for the Hist), I guess it's kinda like how Nocturna works with thieves (gives them luck when necessary, but not always). And may I applaude the ability for Argonians to adapt? They are pretty much everywhere, even Skyrim's cold climate doesn't seem to affect them that much, their knack for lockpicking and stealth (second ONLY to Khajits), connection to the Hist, waterbreathing, resiliance to toxins and illnesses. The perfect spies. (As good as the Hist exists, Argonians will easily outlive all the races).

Listen i was a lizard wizard that casted blizzards. And i kicked ass

"Elves that you know and love" making a lot of assumptions here

everybody gangsta till the lizards go full doom slayer lol

It would be interesting if more Argonians took to the sea, either as merchants or pirates, being able to breathe water (seems salinity ain't a problem with them) may be a huge advantage for them, and maybe it could be possible for them to actually build underwater cities (the water breathing is indefinite, so why not), ambushing boats from the depths, putting all Tamriel in an economic crisis). Is not that they're bad, they just don't know how to play their cards.

Argonians haven't been the best warriors as a race, but maybe that's because they're less warmongering than other races. It seems to me that Argonians as a culture aren't obsessed with conquering other races or racial supremacy. They only seemed to get riled up in self defense or justified revenge. They're not obsessed with war and dominance. Sort of like a kid who could be a better fighter but doesn't see the point of constantly being an asshole.

Argonians have a Histree of being beaten

My first character on Elder Scrolls 2 was an Argonian, named Gooza, and since then i have made headcanon playing all the elder scrolls games after that, making an argonian that looked as much like Gooza as i could recreate, all the way up to Skyrim, a bloodline and ancestry of heroes

Daedra-we will conquer all and no one can't stop us Argonians-Hold my beer 🍺

You forgot the echo, dude. It's "WHAT WE DO IS GO BACK, BACK, BACK, BACK..."

If anything, knowing that they've made it through such hard times makes me like the Argonians even more. They've always been my favorite Elder Scrolls race.

Imagine a argonian turning into a werewolf but instead of a wolf it’s a tree or spriggan now that would be Immersive as F#$%

*Daedra enters black marsh* Daedra: Why do i hear boss music?

They lusty as hell tho

Argonian: Face says lizard, Body says mammal, Normal people say no, Furries say yes.

*In mother black marsh, land protect you*

From what you told me, they have one of the most powerful abilities in the world. They can adapt. All of the other races might "stomp them". Yet they will survive long after their overlords. They don't need to win the battle. They just need to survive the war. Because while the world literally burns, these lizards will be able to adapt better than all of the other races. I think the Hist helped with the Oblivion crisis because to get that super juice, it would have taken a lot of energy to make. Why waste such a precious resource? Especially when the lizards can survive the constant oppression and subjugation of multiple races? To me, what is more impressive then the military victories is the aftermath. The truth is that the empire is practically reliant on their conquest. Without it they become stale and break apart. Argonians suffered but endured. That endurance is one of their most defining qualities and it is why I can't help but admire them. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they were just literally waiting the other races out. Like a bad storm. Just stay indoors until the storm clears and go outside. Heck, the other races already underestimate them. I wonder if that is exactly what the Argonians were waiting for. But how would I know? (:D

The Lusty Argonian.. Simple as that.

The HISTORY of the HIST TREES.

"Argonians are weak!" - Probably some knife-ear. _Servants of Mehrumes Dagon:_ *Intense sweating*

Okay but consider this : Dremora general : first line onward ! "Oblivion army moves through the portal" Dremora general : okay no- "Not even 5 minutes after a bunch of bloodied daedra squirm out of the portal." " Oversized geckos start flooding in, slaughtering every daedra they see" Dremora general: what in the fuckery of molag Bal is this ?!" Mehrune, scared shitless: CLOSE THE FOCKIN PORTALS, NOW !

TES VI needs to have an Argonian Movement. This’d be a rebellion I’d actually side with.

13:37 FudgeMuppet: "Full Scale War" Argonian: "What is a Scale War?"

Of course my Argonian Dragonborn is powerful, it just took out a whole 5 mudcrabs!!!

it's not that the argonians are always treaded on it's that the Hist are playing the LONG game. They took the best defensible place in the continent and uplifted the most flexible and adaptable species there. Notice how deep black marsh is never conquered? that's what the hist care for. Eventually, their time will come and it will make the oblivion crisis look like a nice vacation.

Pfft any race that invaded the Daedra (who are literally infinite) at a time when they were taking a steaming dump on the rest of Tamriel and not only beat them but beat them so soundly on their home turf that the Dremora commanders were forced to seal THEIR OWN PORTALS to avoid being overrun can never be called weak. All hail the An-Xileel.

Woah! Last time I was this early the blades were still protecting the emperor!

"Cryptic hist-trees..." "Cryptic hist-ories..." You're either playing a mad pun game or I'm about to.

Mehrunes dagon: ALL YOUR TAMRIEl ARE BELONG TO ME!!! Argonians: Ithinkthefucknot

Argonians are also potentially the smallest race (population wise) and the least advanced, let alone skilled. Argonians, despite being my absolute favorite race, are very much third world compared to the rest of Tamriel. Even the Bosmer have more advancements and skill than the Argonians. They aren't nearly as magically inclined as Bretons, Altmer, or even Dunmer and Imperials. They don't have a culture that's centered around combat and endurance like the Redgaurds, Bosmer, Orsimer, and Nords. And they aren't nearly as agile or stealthy as Khajiits. Argonians are very much adapted to their homeland and that's all the Hist felt was necessary for the Argonians as a whole. So long as the Argonians are capable of surviving and thriving within Black Marsh, the Hist is safe. This is part of the reason I want a Black Marsh-centric TES game. I want Bethesda to potentially explore a way for the Argonians to become an entity that exist separate from the Hist. I think it would be cool, if a civil war of sorts erupted and allowed for the player to choose whether the Argonians should remain connected to the Hist or to magically separate the Argonians as a whole from the Hist. It could even involve a Deadric Prince becoming interested in the entire affair as a potential opportunity to gain a hold on the Argonian race. Like what if Molag Bol or even Malacath were become interested. I mean, as the Deadric Prince of Vengeance, he could easily become the patron to a race who have been beaten down all their history.

The Argonians are not really weak. They just have no need to be strong until the Hist deems it so, which is when they become arguably one of the strongest races in the entire Elder Scrolls universe. The Hist has been known to create the Argonians as sort of their "ambassadors" or envoys in the real world, because they can move and interact with others in ways the Hist can't (yes I AM aware that there are tales of moving Hist but those are just rumours, so I'll disregard them for now) Argonians serve as their means to stay alive, as both the Elthrosomething war (can't remember that name) and the Dwemer did a good job in decimating their numbers. They are both their children and servants, and so can also be used as really good soldiers. Considering the Argonians can be produced in masses like a factory and may be reborn this way (which means that you have practically unlimited soldiers) and guerrilla tactics that proved formidable enough to best Daedra in combat to the point of nearly invading the invaders, added to the Hist trees acting like watchtowers in the Black Marsh, and adding THAT yo the fact they are inmune to nearly all diseases in their home, which makes their homeland pretty much un-invadable, and adding to THAT the fact there are giant variations... I say that Argonians in general are weak compared to the other races in their current state, the current Black Marsh in an open field would not stand a chance against the Altmer or the Nords. HOWEVER, should the Hist deem it necessary, they could just make the Argonian race a military superpower in a matter of, possibly, just days. They are formidable enough attacking others, and their homeland is not really defeatable without the Hist even trying.

You’re forgetting that the Argonians sacked the Dunmer in an invasion of Morrowind. It’s mentioned in the DLC Dragonborn. They’re also recognised as top stealth and assassins. The Shadowscales as an example. You’re also forgetting the Bosmer and Khajiit who’ve been treated as slaves by the Altmer.

Reply if you agree with minors doing drag

Remember when he said that the hists collect the dead argonians memories? I think the hist trees allow the argonians to be slaves so they can have argonians in other provinces to learn more about what is going on around tamriel. Almost like spying on the other races, what they know, and what they plan to do. Maybe an Argonian in Morrowind discovered some secret that Dagon was coming to Nirn, but the Argonian was killed shortly after. Then, the hist tree would know, thus calling the argonians together to protect them. Good theory, huh?

There is one point I am surprised you didn't make during all of this, aside from the argonian's being more of a symbiotic in nature with the hist, that they are the only race to survive conquests, look at the races such as snow elves, sea elves and others that once conquered for the most part vanished from the face of Tamriel. Also another thing to remember is the Argonian's do consume what is essentially the blood of the hist, to be symbiotic there must be a balance, otherwise it becomes a parasitic bond, meaning the enslaved argonian's may not be just pawns but actually purged by the collective whole to prevent that symbiotic state from becoming corrupt.

I have a theory that Argonians have some kind of low-key hive mind through the Hist. The way they sometimes refer to themselves in plural ("It is our most favored company") even when alone has always intrigued me.

I met sheogorath during the peak of my first acid trip while playing as an Argonian LizardWizard named Lord Bongwater III. I learned the meaning of humility in a way I never had before when the character responds to Sheogorath by asking him what he "asks" of him instead of what he would tell him to do. I now dream as this lizard and he and I have spiritually bonded through dimensions.

The Argonians aren't weak, their home just makes them isolationist and thus, not as advanced industry as the rest of the world.

Say that to my oblivion character who beat the shit out of everyone with his bare hands

Bruh remember when that ex-Bethesda writer said that in 9th era there's a space war between the Hist and the Dragons?

I been playing as an Argonian since I first started on TES, there is such thing as loyalty, there is more to it than their abilities or how they look or any of that superficial shit. LOYALTY

*sees a skyrim meme* *rants for 23 minutes on YT*

You can absolutely not call a race weak when it drives the daedra away all the way into their portals which they had to shut down because they would have been overrun!

The most badass part was when THEY FORCED A DEMON ARMY TO RETREAT.

Their history just proves how enduring their race are.

I wish we'd get a better look at this Hist and the lore of Argonia in a future game. I don't expect it, but I hope we do.

I like the Orcs and dark elves the most but the Argonians arent weak. They saved the Nords and Dark elves with 3 gods on their side from Ice Giants from Akavar. They never lost a war because they never even acknowledge they're attacked. Sure, other races took some undefended camps outside the swamps near morrowind as slaves but they never got conquered. Any band of slave catchers can catch round up a village that doesn't defend itself. Catching slaves isnt an exercise of superiority. its hard to call yourself the winner of a game the other guy isnt even playing. They only 2 wars they fought, they won handly. Dark elves and daedra are the only times the Argonians stopped chilling in a swamp and organized and marched for war. They beat the Dark elves pretty easily even though it was mostly a surprise attack of sorts but they never got repelled. They stopped advancing. big difference. The difference between a war with a victor and a complete genocide. They kept the lands they took gave the Dunmer more causalties than the oblivion cirsis itself (that could be untrue though, another unreliable narrator effect). They didnt have a government until the oblivion cirsis really and since then, theyve done better than every race except the 3 race faction of the Aldermeri Dominion. People who look down on the argonians judge them on very odd criteria. Like did they conquer other nations, did they own slaves? The ability was always there, they are the jack of trade race, with fighters, mages, and stealth all rolled into their character makeup in-game. But their culture never desired anything but to be left alone in black marsh. So thats what they do. The Argonians' goals are a mystery now, with their new government ignoring the thalmor's request to meet but theyre the biggest problem the thalmor have right now aside from the redguards who are in open rebellion. Because this era is the first time theyve even looked up to see what the other races are doing after eras of ignoring them. Now they have more territory than ever and for the first time, a military.

I so wish ES6 would be set in Blackmarsh.

My group of friends used to debate about the beast races. I was the only one to rep argonians. Good to know there are others.

Their customization options made me love them, and then their homeland, then their abilities, then their history, then their situation, and then their resemblence to a dragon. HAIL ARGONIA

Idk if they are weak but...Lusty Argonian Maid seems OP

I think breathing underwater while being self aware is an amazing trait and strength to have. There are so many fights/conflicts that give you a defensive advantage if you are by the ocean or body of water by simply swimming away or waiting under water for quite sometime. I kind of want to watch Black Marsh in Arena atm, especially the central locations.

Well the dark brotherhood was found of having them hell the trained then from birth basically to serve the dark brotherhood

My theory on the topic is two fold, either that the Argonians are the most benevolent race and don't want to hurt the other races...Or the Hist trees saved their power for when it mattered most (Being the Oblivion crisis). I don't consider the Argonians weak, in fact they have some of the most powerful strategic assets if you look at it from Sun Tzu's Art of war.

THANK YOU FOR LOVING THE THEORY AT THE END ❤🦎

I dismiss the notion that cultural value is derived from the ability to dominate others.

You know you're invested in lore when you make a 23 minute response to a meme

I love the Argoinions so much I made one based one on my old lizard that sadly past he was called ox

As a species they have definitely been screwed over, but from an Argonian point of view they don't feel that their weak. From the perspective of men or elf i can see how they think there weak, slaves from the beginning of history, have not conquered anyone and barely defended their land, However, maybe the Argonians are just swamp folk who want to be left alone? Perhaps the epiphany of their existence is hanging out with the hist trees, we simply do not know enough about their culture. When prompted they have attempted to defend their lands, charged head on into oblivion gates, put a halt on the daedra invasion of their lands and took it to the enemy Dagon , that has to be respected. Their perfectly suited to their habitat, and when properly organised they are very effective. Regardless of lore, they make a great character to play as, assassin, theif, ghost, berserker warlord, battle Mage. Keep up the great vids fudgemuppet. 👍

Man I'll never forget being 8 years old and playing Oblivion for the first time and just being like "BRO, FUCKING LIZARD MAN FUCK YES"

Thumbs up for Argonian raptors mod

I mean i havent watched the video yet, but they *DID* invade oblivion

"At least, the ghost saying it is canon" Holy shit! Thank you! Pisses me off when people take the word of a character as if they have perfect knowledge of the world and its history.

Dagon: *tries to invade Tamriel* Lizard bois: hold my Hist beer

We gotta go back Back to the past Samurai Jack.

Argonians are based off of cold-blooded reptiles of the real world. Of which their musculature is easily able to support their body weight and then some in all manners of inclines. This muscle strength alone would ruin even a Nord in a strength contest, though that would just be overpowered to put in the game. There is also the the Shadowscales... those motherfuckers are no joke. They can turn out to be hulking were-crocodile juggernauts of death, or sleek wraiths that can put the lightest of Khajiit to shame. Why and how, you ask? Their feet are similarly padded, giving them the same advantages, they also have claws; though they have something the Khajiit don't have. Cold blood... The ability to circulate blood to needed parts of the body and the genetic ability to recruit every muscle fibre at once, an act that would allow full usage of every ounce of strength resulting in almost comical strength at the cost of severe muscle damage (Histskin tho mothafucka, who cares at that point!) Vampires also can't detect them cos you know, cold blood. Can't see that juice if it ain't warm. (Keep in mind that to be this cold would probably mean close to death since reptiles need to bask in order to heat the blood, but it depends on how skilled the individual is in manipulating their body heat. Just like an Assassin manipulating their HR with sedatives.) The major problems with the race that I can see, is the lack of magical prowess. The physical is there, though unlike Nord's, who have the meat AND the occasional magical art prodigy; the Argonians had nothing besides the odd shaman. Which was a pissant in the face of an actual mage. Mind control, enchanting, runes, traps etc. Is just too great of a threat for mere physical and adaptive capabilities to handle. Sure, the Shadowscale were versed in some magics, though shadowscale were an elite small number. Nowhere near enough to repel an invasion, in which every soldier could use magic with relative ease (Elves).

It seems like the Argonians aren't a powerhouse but they are very resilient and united (something that can't be said about most of the other races). They is a good chance they will outlive all the races of man and mer and khajiit who are (excluding the Khajiit because I am unsure about them on this topic) constantly fighting or dealing with civil unrest, or having grand ambitions which eventually lead to destruction. Concerning your theory at the end, I like it. The hist seem to act like a secret organization, The Argonians aren't seen as a threat. It could all be some long con conspiracy for them to take over Mundus.

"Are Argonians weak?" *THIS IS THE HIST* *DO NOT RESIST*

Hell yeah brother i'm a sap drinkin, tail havin, jungle livin argonian.

I play Skyrim. Face it. You're Dragonborn, play an Argonian

To oblivion and back, as they say!

Maybe the hist happened to collect the soul of a dragon or two, making it possible and likely that they created a dragonborn to stop Alduin from destroying them.

The only issue I have with the Hist learning through Argonian bodies is that in Lord of Souls it’s mentioned that the further you get from Black Marsh, the harder it is for you to hear the Hist, so I doubt they have that kind of power.

Theory: You know how they say that the stars are the lesser Aedra who escaped back to Atherius when the Mundus was created. What if the Hist are those who remained in the Mundus? there's a little something to chew on.

4:35 ARRRRgonians

I would love to see anyone try to fight the argonians when they are actually united and throw everything they have at them, imagine a battle hardened wingless dragon, losing his sword, and not skipping a beat, just continuing with the nails and teeth... I find it odd that khajiit have bonus unarmed damage in Skyrim, but the Argonians don't. Like, they are walking 'Gators... I would like to see a game (or a canon book or something) where they actually gave the Argonians their due, and let them wreak havoc onto Man and Mer alike

Started watching the Fudge muppet videos a few days ago, 10/10 lads, very useful, informative and good for a wee chuckle at the same time 😂

Most of the reasons people give for the Argonians being weak - that they were conquered by Cyrodiil and defeated by Morrowind - can also be levelled at the nords yet nobody seems to do so because they assume that nords = vikings = strong.

I believe that the hist will play a role in the upcoming games, looking through what we know about these trees is that the hist is able to create life from its sap. These trees are found all around Nirn and Argonian tribes usually form around these trees. I don't think that these trees are just sentient trees that the argonians use for their sap and cultural purposes...i think there is much more to that, we know that most of these trees are centered in Black Marsh, a place that is lethal to other races when nearing the center. I think that the argonians are the creations of the Hist, a entity powerful enough to create and shape life, a deity. The Hist takes the memories from the argonians upon death, and giving that soul a new body, the argonians are the pawns of the Hist, using them as spies and assets. Gavering knowledge about other races, the hist is eternal, so it might be that for it, hours are minutes, days are hours time flies quicker for it, it knows all, it's seen every war, expierenced it with every death of a argonian, it is able to give strength and courage to the argonians. For now it does what it needs to survive, studying, evolving, growing new trees in new locations maybe since the dwemer cut most down for wood, replenishing it's strength, and maybe planing domination. Or it is just a tree...a sentient tree protecting it self, like we see some trees do in real life, by releasing toxins from its roots so no plant grows near it, stealing it's water and nutrition from the soil below it.

The Oblivion Crisis was like the War of 1812 for the Argonians

An easily concluded theory for me was that the hist is so in tune with nature that when it sensed the imbalance of daedra pouring into the world it sent the argonians as soldiers to restore that balance.

Being very isolationist and Tribal in nature it would make sense for Argonions to not have Much a history outside of blackmarsh. The Argonians are the Enigma race, Anything you know of them can only come from any of them that happen to leave Blackmarsh. If the Argonians were more active they would be much tougher and have a bigger footprint in tamriel. Major disease and poison resistance, the ability to breath underwater. Possible ability to gain bird like quality's and perhaps ability to adapt to their environments over generations(for example Skyrim Argonians gain feathers and horns, Tamriel argonians having fins since they are closer to blackmarsh,) Basically are the Argonians weak. no not really. they just don't have the will to be conquerors like every other race They just keep to themselves deep within black marsh. They are very powerful When they want to be. They stay with their Gods. any argonians on the fringes of blackmarsh are few and far between and not as unified

So what your saying is that if the center of Black Marsh is threatened then they are called back to defend as super lizards. So in a way the Argonians will never die out, they can hold up in the center and if that is breached. The hist will supply them the power to drive off the invades. Black Marsh is the only province that is immune to invasion. If someone were to try and genocide all argonians, then they could go home and no one could get them, kind of like the argonians swampy hearth. In acient greece, the hearth was a scared thing, you couldnt attack someone there, and even if people didnt like you, they had to defend you. So in long terms, argonians can never be truly defeated.

Very nice video. I really like how you tell us stories but i'd enjoy them even more if you would maybe using a map of Tamriel to show where exactly you are talking about. Especially when talking about military campaigns... :)

They been my favorite race since I played oblivion when I was like 8

The argonians figuratively kicked mehrune dagon's armies's collective asses in the deadric invasion. They inhabited the land before elves and humans, they are the primeval inhabitants of Tamriel.

Weak? In the time of the oblivion crisis the Argonians were the only Race who fought the Deadra back, invaded them and fought so tough, that the Deadra retreated. I think the Argonians are absolutly Beasts and fearsome Warriors.

brilliant. i enjoyed this so much. you guys are the best!

There's 2 ways to look at this. Are the Argonians a weak race? Individually, yes. Especially since they rely on the hist. As a group: not the weakest. Their grouping up is their strength. In fact, the weakest *race* might be the Orcs, on the group level. The problem with the Orcs is that they are not very tribal. They don't actually have a tribe of their own. They are spread out throughout Tamriel in every province. This is why they keep being defeated by races that may be weaker on an individual level, but nevertheless know how to team up. Argonians worked very well together against the deadra.

Regardless of their past, they are a /capable/ group, and have the potential. I am hoping to see some positive changes for them in the next Elder Scrolls game.

I wouldn't say they are weak, there is a reason why Argonian shadowscales make some of the best assassins, and they are essentially stronger men with resistances to poison and disease, they are amphibious giving them huge advantages. they rather have a tribal style of culture and are more passive and submissive towards the world than other races of tamriel. many of them are enslaved by dark elves and yet many remain relatively peaceful. They face a lot of political and social adversity because they are a beast race, and their submissive lifestyle makes them more vulnerable. Their lack of interest in conquest has made them vulnerable to conquest though as a species, argonians are most certainly not weak. They are just more primitive. With the knowledge and technology of the elves they could potentially be one of the most dangerous races in Tamriel.

I read that argonians were created by akatosh with the blood of alduin, but because they decided to adore the hist and instead akatosh they was "cursed" in some way. However, before the oblivion crisis akatosh made a promise to them, if they stayed together as a nation and were loyal to akatosh, they will never be defeated again. I don´t remember where i read that

First thing I thought of when I clicked on this video: NO **thinks back on oblivion crisis and how they singlehandedly made Meruhnes shit himself so he closed the portals in the Black Marsh**