You should check out the Smoking tire podcast where Steve Dinsn shows up. He explains that the bearings are too narrow. He basically has to modify the crank and rods to accept NASCAR bearings which solve the issue completely.
Haven’t heard of rod bearing issues in the S55 engine, but did hear about the rod bearing issues in the e chassis and early f chassis N55s. Note that in 2013, N55 got forged connecting rods from the s55 instead of the old cast rods. My theory is that this issues are 1. As somebody said, they are narrow. 2. The rods are a little bit too weak (in relative terms of course) for the torque and/or rpms they are subjected to. Rod bearing wear does depend on the connecting rod stiffness
@@cammgt3rs370 are you able to confirm it was only on M235? I think the updated N55 found in the M235 is also in the x4 m40i for 2016-2018. I'm hoping the updated connected rods were in the other n55 engines after 2013, as I'm looking at the 2017-2019 X6.
I am in this zone right now. Picking up a 2012 135i to track with. Doing the research I have found the following: No specific clearances for oem bearings can be found. The consensus is that the tolerances are tight. The oil change specs are stupid. There job is to get mileage and to sell cars, they don't care about the customer when it comes to longevity and the government certainly is no help either. Items I have waiting for the car next week: Dual oil cooler set up for track Oil pan gasket Bolt kit Oil pan baffle braided brake lines LSD ACL race bearings CSF radiator new hoses main seal protector shield oem rod bolts ( think the arp may crush the bore) oil pan suction pipe $1375 for part so far and it will climb as I get rid of all fluids when I pick up a new used car
Agree with him on service time about 80 and 90 thousand miles. And yes if nothing is being done in the decent car, then list is long to do all the gaskets, seals, plastic and robber hoses. To be honest, lot of people selling their car's here in America, to avoid spending big bucks.
All I can speak to is the S85 V10. No one can convince me it's the bearings, it is idiot owners, wrong oil, no idea how to properly warm the V10 correctly. People mistreat the hell out of it, sell it to some unsuspecting soul, then they think they bought junk...I have had three E60 M5's, still have one today
MANY BMW issues come from poor ownership. I have a 2000 E39 528i 5spd ZF. Bought it brand new out of college. In 22yrs I had the radiator and water pump fail. That’s it. I rarely drive the car over 3,000 rpm. Don’t think I ever hit 5,000rpm. Change the oil with synthetic every 5k. Garage kept in sunny AZ. Zero rust, oil leaks or CCV issues - ever.
@@paperandmedals8316 jeez bro how do you never red line it? I have an e39 530iA and errr... I do. I don't think that counts as misuse either, but yours should last for ever yea.
@@ironmantooltime I have a Hayabusa if I have the need. Not my E39. It’s a luxury car., not a sports car. I see people all the time in the bmw Facebook groups bitching how shorty their car is, and in another posting they’re talking about drifting it. Treat it like shit and it will turn into shit.
Art Brookey below is right. Warm that BMW engine up completely. Use only BMW recommended oil. Drive the car easy until it warms up. That really applies to all cars as oil doesn’t lubricate the best until it’s up to temp.
@@ironmantooltime I think by BMW recommended oil, he meant 10w60. As for me, I only use Red Line 10w60. BMW says what, 15K miles on a change I think, I never go over 3,500 miles, There is an S85 "magician" so to speak out there, Troy Jeup or something like that, builds and races S85's and others. He uses 10w50 I believe, BUT...his bearing tolerances are different than stock
@@NathansBMWWorkshop I do enjoy your stuff, but have to disagree, and so do BMW independent shops outside Seattle where I am...like Strictly BMW in Bellevue Wa, Autometrics in Yakima Wa, Eastside Bavarian is Issaquah Wa...if maintained correctly, warm up, proper oil and change intervals....
I use BMW spec oil but always use Mobil 1. Change frequency is what matters. I do 5k or one year. I definitely warm my car up or at least drive it very softly until it does warm up. I live in a 365 day warm, dry climate. The lack of humidity and cold really does prolong the life of these cars. NEVER had a CCV issue, for example.
Thank you for your channel! I have a question, Is the problem with the rod bearings in the S63 is the same with the S63tu too? I say that because I want to acquire a BMW M5 F90 but used, so if the newest engine for the M5 are better, which year at least you recommend to me to buy?
I think of a modern BMW like an aircraft. After so long everything needs to be done. In the ideal world the value of the car should reflect these overhauls. BMW should make a service kit. However market forces are not doing the best for the customers or the environment in these cases. I must say however I run a V12 760 and perhaps as an experiment I keep on paying a warranty on it with BMW. Over the years I have had a number of engine out repairs, my dealership has never really messed things up at all on my car. They do make comments like waiting for the people with the correct skills to be in the shop. I also think it helps that the service manager is an ex technician who learnt much from working on my car.. They have replaced many hoses and items not specifically covered by the warranty as parts required by the major jobs. So I do think that the specific dealership makes a huge difference.
Hey Nathan, i have an n55 with 100k miles, car runs great but I’ve been considering replacing the rod bearings just to be safe. Which bearings and bolts would you recommend? I’ve heard good things about king bearings, any insight?
My N55 spun rod bearings at 88k miles. Put a used motor in it, and 3 months later the bed plate was pissing oil. Sold the car because I was just mentally drained at that point
I don’t know , if all that applies to the N 54 engines. I have a 2010 535 I with the N 54 engine in it. It’s got 217,000 miles original rod bearing use Castro 0W 40 or sometime mobile 0W 40 oil ,change the oil every 5000 miles it’s still running With MHD stage 2+tune for the last three years, guess I am one of the lucky ones 😅
Basically it’s. BMW problem. Either they engineered them that way on purpose or engineers just screwed up. BMW should be fixing these while the cars are under warranty before the damage comes in. I will never buy a BMW again.
So a week ago my e71 x6m decided to throw a rod bearings at 172,000kms I picked the car up at 130,000kms and I'm thinking after searching the web for hours about this crap haha That its not the fact the clearances are so tight because the ford GT350 mustang and LS7 cars have the same Rod clearances I think that it basically comes down to the oil service intervals being ridiculously long EG. 10,000miles the amount of contaminants in the oil at that point or even 8,000miles after beating on the car wouldn't be good & at the pointy end of the oil interval service interval those acid like contaminants eat away at the bearing material. Because the factory rod material is manly aluminium which is a weak metal under heat and load. Just my thoughts, would love to here what you think about this opinion. 👍
Damn shame. Good of him to make this informative video. I love all these motors. But shit like this scared me away. Not like I did any better with the car I chose, 2003 Audi RS6. Internals are bulletproof, it’s everything else that’s a pain, gotta pull the motor for nearly any job. For example, to replace all the O2 Sensors, motor out job; parts $400, labor $3500.
What the hell is with the commercial during this video with the guy holding two eggs near his testicles with sad faces drawn on them? I have and had many Mercedes. Don’t have the mechanical issues like BMW. They get issues with accessories. Convertible top will not work, needs micro switch. Throwing temp codes because ambient temp probe fell out of its holder. Get your torque wrench calibrated!!
You forgot to mention the S54. Rod bearings are a wear item on all of these engines, like it or not. It's worse if you don't change the oil frequently and also if you don't let the engine warm up fully before "enjoying" the car. If you don't replace the rod bearings before they fail, it will kill the engine. It's easy to keep on top of this. All you have to is get the oil analyzed every oil change or maybe every second oil change. As soon as you see lead, or worse, copper, the bearings need to be replaced ASAP. Anyone who can't do this maintenance or pay someone to do it should not own one of these cars. Problems like this aren't unique to BMW. AMG V8 engines are notorious for bending connecting rods (which takes out the cylinder bores), especially on 4Matic cars. Audis have their own problems. BMW M, MB AMG and Audi S cars are expensive, high performance vehicles. They are not for everyone.
Hey Nathan!! Great videos. I have a 2012 X5 that I am replacing the motor. Bought a running donor engine with 71k. I will be using your info to do the necessary upgrades. You should post a list of all of your upgrades you "suggest" for an N63 with say 120K (.....that would be for my car). Great info!!
Is there any reason for leaving the n54 engine off the list. Bought mine 335i at 93k close to 170k now. Change oil religiously only use European oil Liquimoly or Total. Upgraded aluminum radiator brought engine temperatures down.
Say Nathan, that 4.0L V8 in the E90 M3 is designated S65, not S63 as stated in the video. Just saying.... call me an a**hole for pointing it out. IMHO your content is top shelf.
... and as a unwary buyer I bought a 110k m3 and within short time found out what sound a spun rod bearing makes. The learning curve is steep and not cheap. Now 30k into replacement s65 I am all about the smiles the engine causes. Not cheap, but worth every cent.
I didnt realize i mixed it up, had to shoot this video 3 times since phillip isnt here and i kept having quality issues , but yes i all to well know that is s65
My god...this is exactly why I tell anyone I care about NOT to buy these cars...its a shame to spend so much money from the dealership and lucky to make it past 5 years without major repair costs..Makes me miss my E36
So what’s the best BMW engine if the past 20yrs? I6 or V8. Not looking for a debate. There’s only one answer. Best as in dependability and reliability, fewest repair needs over 150k miles?
You really call 'em like you see 'em Nathan. That's what we love about you and your channel. Can't wait to see how this engine renovation pans out. I'm sure there will be ups and downs, but you'll deliver!
The S63 and S85 were flawed masterpieces. Are the N63TUs better engines?? Like, will the M50i engines really not need valves stem seals, seize, and eat oil unlike it’s previous iterations?? I very very skeptical after watching your earlier video on the N63.
Only time will tell if the N63TU has issues, I think we’re on our 4th or 5th update in 2022. 2015+ haven’t heard of any rods, but valve stem seals I think I’ve heard of that already.
Thanks for the info, was considering getting a 2011 750Li with engine knock. By the time I would have bought the car and then new engine, would have more invested than it is worth!
Good vid but I have to ask why do Americans have so much trouble with BMWs when they are one of the most dependable cars sold in UK ? IF you ALWAYS use good synthetic oil at every say 12K miles you shouldnt have problems..
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ 5 star info. Please don’t stop passing on your project vehicles to your subscribers. The vast majority of us out here recognize your hard work and honesty and want to support you in buying the finished product!
As a BMW owner here in Australia, I have always stated that only the very rich or someone who can maintain the car themselves can afford a BMW. Parts costs here in Australia are extortionate! I get my stuff out of the states (FCP Euro/Rock Auto etc). I do follow Jonny at German Auto Works in Witchita. He has a good channel and is a real do the job yourself kind of guy. No BS. I am going to look for the next in this series now.
the old ones E34 and E39 in my garage have been good to me. FCP Turner Schmeidmann are all good and Clickable is the best for the affordable stuff for the things that go bad. Even Ebay is great for bulk cheap stuff that always needs replacing like trim clips and push clips to have on hand whenever something like a window reg dies But looking at these engines holee sheet theres 10x as many hoses as my M60 and M52TU put together. Worthless when they break, throw em away just like your phone or toaster
I agree with just about all of this. However, I still have never fully agreed with the n63 engine having rod bearing issues. I personally have never heard of them being bad at all like the s63 and of course s85. Until literally a few weeks ago you could buy a brand new long block of the first year n63, 2008-2013 n63b44a or n63b44o0 for $3024. Now they raised the retail to $5000 and many places you can still get them for $3700-$4000. I myself have actually seen this happen where the engine is ordered and comes in from Germany only for these replacement engines. My neighbor has a 2008 n63 x6 50i with 190,000 on the original block and no issues at all internally it’s his daily driver. He has a 2012 x6m and at 60,000 miles that s63 spun a bearing. So you definitely know what you are talking about it’s just odd to see that happen
It’s not as common on the N63 but it’s out there. Anytime I seen vanos and timing faults, first thing i checked was the oil filter for bearing material. Bingo! Seeing a lot of N20/N26 engines at 50k-90k miles. Junk!!!
I do agree with that. The N20 engine has got to be the worst out there. Twice as bad as any N63,S63 or S85. BMW didn’t do so hot with the N20. I think they realized that and made the b48 and b58 very well because of it
Beware, at about 150k, your oil cooler lines will burst. Lost all my oil and one cam jumped time but i was able to save it. Doing timing chains and valve stem seals again at.185k.
I know this is BMW content but the information is the same for any marque. If people don’t keep up with maintenance, push oil change intervals out and don’t replace things as wear/issues appear then you end up at 100k and its massive bill to out right. Leasing has made this worse as theres no incentive to properly maintain and lease companies have forced manufacturers to push out service intervals past whats needed for mechanical preservation, they just need to out last the warranty and the lease period. Also I know the ‘drama’ of slating Euro cars and in particular BMW is good for RU-vid but US domestic cars are no better
Sir. You are a Blessing from Heaven. I looking for my First BMW X6 and trying to learn as much as I Can. It would be awesome to have Two of you so one can work on this Vehicle and one that could answer my Questions! Would it be Wise to go to Aeroquip to tell them to Design a Series of Replacements Hoses for vehicles? How much to you Charge to learn more about BMW Engines? Does the Staight 6 engines have these Problems?
Drive your car like a grandma always and forever! I will never ever ever ever buy another BMW eeeeevvveeerr!!! Biggest piece of sh!t! Just put LS in and be done! They have to do it on purpose they can't figure it out????? Oh German engineering????
I have an N63TU (F06 650i), S65 (E92 M3), and S63 (E70 X5M). It was the X5M's S63 that decided life was not worth living. I'm curious; the $8k you say for an S63 is used, right? Warranty took care of mine at the dealer at $36k with "discounts." $18k just for the engine, then add turbos, coolers, etc. on top of that. Would I have fixed it out of my own pocket? Never. It would have been another part out, but with warranty covering it, I have a fresh new S63 with a warranty for the next 2 years. That's the part that feels good. I think it comes down to the previous owner's treatment of the car. My very reliable M3 had a very good life with the first owner. The X5M's first owner followed the "maintenance intervals."
My s63 engine (X5M) spun its bearings at 49,000 miles 2 years ago. Dealer also told me $36,000 for a new engine install. I had it rebuilt for much less than that.She is back and running again with no issues.The rebuilder said it was the tight tolerances bmw used that caused the spun bearing. It’s a shame this is a systemic issue with these engines
@SunnyD Wow, at only 49k?!! I would have rebuilt mine also and made it better by doing so. I just would never have paid that BMW cost. That's a number where Im already thinking what 36k buys besides an engine. Another car, or another engine? There are better options and at much lower prices. I didn't rebuild it because the warranty covered it. It does feel good knowing it's new and with warranty. The problem is that it's still the same engine with the same issues and the same fate. I love this thing though. *edited to add.... I love everything about this thing EXCEPT the sound. Maybe it's the M3 that spoiled it for me. Maybe it's even the N63 in the 650. Either way, the S63 sound doesn't do it for me. At idle yes. Full throttle, no.
@@Cee_M3 Yeah, only 49,000 miles & the engine quit on me. I drove it like a gentleman most of the time too & was meticulous with service. I was getting $6,000 to scrap the car. The BMW Dealer wanted $36,000 for a new factory engine swap (with ZERO goodwill from BMW of North America). The rebuild was $12,500 ,installed, with upgraded King bearings, a new crank shaft, new rods, & fixed tolerances. The rebuild came with a 1 year warranty and is rock solid so far. I couldn’t find another 555+ hp car, in this good of shape, for $13,000 so I decided to rebuild the engine. If you want to improve the sound from the S63 engine you can add downpipes (catless) & do a muffler delete. Add a ECU engine tune as well. The stock cold start is enough to wake my neighbors up. But I agree with you, the full throttle sound leaves you wanting a little more.
After watching your videos I can sympathized everything you say. My 2013 BMW X6 50.i was a nightmare. N63 was nothing but an endless money pit then you have to worry when driving something else is about to fail. I went back to my pragmatic thinking. My wife and I bought a new Honda and Toyota with 10yr/120,000 miles warranty. Life is really great when I don't have to think about mechanics, car repairs, reliability and going to repair shops to get estimate. BMW and Mercedes are great cars. The problem is when you leave manufacture warranty they will start kicking you in the nuts and bank account.
It’s not as common on the N63 but it’s out there. Anytime I seen vanos and timing faults, first thing i checked was the oil filter for bearing material. Bingo! Seeing a lot of N20/N26 engines at 50k-90k miles. Junk!!!
The E46 M3 with the S54 has the same issue. I held out to 167K then did it myself. I also took care of the engine and when I changed the brings, a few were showing the copper so it was definitely getting ready to fail.
Great video.. Im really interested in how the internals look, and the over-all job goes. I almost pulled the trigger on this BMW and now im glad i kinda-didnt.. haha.. I enjoy the one i did pick up.. great fun to tinker with and drive and enjoy..
I’ve seen a few reputable shops do it with the motor still in car but that’s on the m3 the m5 has a cross member that’s basically touching the engine lol
How about the m8s I haven't heard you mention those I imagine it's a similar motor to the rest of them. It's a damn shame they did away with the v12. And the only ones they make it's called the last V12 and only if you bought in from BMW of V12 in the past. And $200,000 on a 760il or something like that. And from the factory that motor sounds pretty good. But then again it's all new technology so it's probably not nearly as good as something from the 90s or earlier
You said Mercedes doesnt have those issues. you are probably talking about petrol engines. But from my experience, I have seen and done many 350CDI Mercedes G, E, ... with main bearings issues, it's the same with N57 BMW 3.0 and Audi 3.0 TDI mostly 2012-, funny they all share the same catastrophic failures(aka. the most labor required to repair). I know a guy who blew 3 350CDI G wagen engines in 5 years, while I have seen extreme rattling noises from timing chain and very poorly maintained 320CDIs, OM642 without any rod or main bearing failures whatsoever, non serviced, 400k miles+, the same goes for most of MB diesels back in time since this year. Also, noone clearly can tell what is the cause, some say it's the oil cooler, most say it's the poor maintenance or oil. But in my opinion, I am 95% sure it's a engineered flaw and bearings on all of those manufacturers(especially main bearings) are intentionally probably weaker than 1.5 dci clio which was disaster. Other than that, I think those oil/vacuum pumps are also designed to kinda silently fade away and quicken the bearings wear with it. I have seen many crank failures over the years, but even the poorest designed engines mostly spun rod bearings. In my opinion, this is a designed moneymaking flaw, which is also the most expensive to preventively rebuild, requires a load of work, mostly lower blocks are also designed in 3 pieces, connected to chains, chains are in the back, which results is removing the whole engine and many hrs of labor to replace the bearings, hence mostly noone does it, probably those that do it and even put the cheapest aftermarket bearings in, will never have an issue. Think about it: How much stress and explosions rod bearings have to endure, while main bearings simply stand still and carry the crankshaft which is rotating inside. Makes no sense. But I honestly kinda like it. It is made for them, to sell the naked engines for 30k-60k, but it's also good for us, we get some cool big jobs and also make some bucks. And in the future, this will only be more common and more sought after, which means we gonna work on a lot of nice wheels :D. EDIT: And now how to explain to a customer we have to replace a 150usd part and he will have to pay 3000eur? :D
I changed my transmission fluid at like 150 because I got nervous about it. I bought it at 115. Much to my surprise it was brand new looking fluid I knew then that I had bought a rare bmw that was actually maintained and for that reason, even tho it is a PITA I don't think I'll get rid of it and if I do I won't be rolling those dice again. I love it but I know that if it wasn't taken care of I'd be in the poor house from trying to keep it running and I just can't risk that.
Nobody really knows why they fail, however the forces on the bearings are far higher than the forces on old cars and the bearings are the same size and materials. I think the real question is why do Mercedes bearings last... My guess it is to do with oil pressure and efficiency. I suspect BMW have lowered oil pressure to the point where the bearings suffer. We may well find that the later cars with electric oil pumps are better because electric loads can be run off regenerative braking.
Hi bro I'm glad that you are doing this motor I have the same exact motor and my x 5M And possibly want to be able to do some of my work myself Thank you
Replace all the gaskets around the engine, valve cover, timing cover, vvt solenoid oring, and all the other orings, change your oil and use seal conditioner, and that engine will last a long long time.
