Solar Panels - They're Not All Made Equal It Seems!

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After Harry got his panels installed, I started to think that I may have made a small error in my initial panel choice.
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Опубликовано:

11 апр 2024

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Комментарии : 205

@barryhaeger4284 2 месяца назад

Really useful discussion point about not all PV Panels being created equal and certain panels being suited to different locations. However, there is a very significant difference between your two configurations and that is that micro inverters on Harry's installation can produce over the course of a year up to 30% more than an installation using the same panels. A second consideration is that Harry's are new and in the first few months PV panels, much the same way as new EV batteries, degrade a couple of percent then have a fairly slow 0.5% or so per year which means as Harries are at the top of there game yours aren't. Thirdly as Harry said the quality of his PV panels degrades more slowly. The panels I picked for myself are N-Type silicon on top whereas most are P-Type, don't worry about what that means, but just note that N-Type on the top layer degrades more slowly than P-Type and my panels have a 30-year performance guarantee to 80% not 20-year. Finally as Harry's panels are new they are spotlessly clean and cleaning panels of air-born grime can make a huge difference, particularly in lower light conditions.

@Beyondact 2 месяца назад

That cat is living its best life.

@steve_787 2 месяца назад

Can't wait to see the follow up series on this head-to-head on PV generation 😉 I suspect that in the summer the micro-inverters might start clipping more so EVM will go back ahead? Just given the go ahead on a 20 panel setup with North, East & South (odd shaped roof) and did so much toing and throwing on panels types and inverter options. Ended up going for JA Solar 440w bi-facial panels with Tigo optimisers on an 8kW Sunsynk hybrid inverter with 15kWh Fogstar batteries. Can't wait to get it up and running!

@RahulParmar1978 Месяц назад

Why the bifacial panels? Is your roof a bright colour, do you intend to paint it, do you have highly reflective surroundings...just curious as considering if they're worth it for my situation. (Also going with Sunsynk 8 kw and FogStar!)

@steve_787 Месяц назад

@@RahulParmar1978 the cost uplift seems negligible and I'm only going to be fitting the panels once. My roof is relatively shallow at 30deg and rear of the house has an extension with a double peak roof so will have 10 panels on 4 roofs facing N/S with the other 10 on the main East elevation. I've got dark red tiles which are fairly well weathered so not going to be that reflective, more I'm trying to catch the sun as it passes over at the lower angles throughout the day and the roof is going to be maxed out so all the panels will be fairly close to the edge. I have debated having the roof cleaned first, but I don't think the cost will be worth it. Octopus seem to be using the JA Solar bi-facial panels as standard now and Heatable also use them (although I think the REA panels are larger so they have more gaps between the cells. How much they will add in reality I'm unsure of, if I got 5% more I'd be happy as that should offset some of the inversion losses on the battery. I have an option for a lean-to over my shed for another 10 panels later on which is where the bifacials would benefit a lot as we have a buff brick house so should get a lot of reflection for the bi-facial panels. So another reason is to try and match the panels so I can compare later. I'm having a bit of a back-and-forth with my installer on the battery as I'm looking to supply it myself (note you seem to be able to use a code "10OFF" to get a 10% discount on the fogstar site at the moment) but they haven't used one before with the Sunsynk inverter (even though they sent me the data sheet for the battery 🤷‍♂) I have spoken with someone who has one with a smaller Sunsynk inverter and they just had to use the Pylontech BMS settings. I'm sure it'll be fine, just got to ge tthe installer on board or I just fit the battery after.

@RahulParmar1978 Месяц назад

@@steve_787 Thanks! I'm having similar convo with installer about Fogstar as it's unfamiliar to them. Fogstar told me their MD uses theirs with a Sunsynk, so should be fine.

@davidclothier8446 2 месяца назад

Bi facials take the extra light reflected from behind, it adds a small boost to the power generated as it isn't direct sunlight. Where it will have a better boost is in places that have higher amounts of reflection, like snow covered ground with a free standing array of solar panels. Panel angle as well as panel orientation will have an effect on the amount generated, tracking will give you an almost perfect amount of generation, but this isn't always practical. Tuning the orientation and angle can give more useful production for your consumption, but will probably reduce the overall amount generated.

@Roobubba Месяц назад

Interesting that Harry ended up with Heatable for the panels (they're currently the only supplier for REA Fusion2 panels in the UK, I believe). I ended up with Heatable after researching microinverters. 3 months later, we're so happy with the install - it's performing fantastically well, and Heatable were fantastic to deal with: their customer service was superb.

@andrewstapleton9018 2 месяца назад

I use to fit solar panels and when you test them you would be surprised on how the pitch of a panel makes a massive difference. Optimisers make a difference also so it could be that also.

@TonyOrc 2 месяца назад

Harry's house is obviously 5 miles further south 🙂

@edwyncorteen1527 2 месяца назад

My first lot of panels, installed E/W seven years ago, are still producing, on an annual basis, as much and usually more than they did in the first year so no sign of degradation, its our wonderful Yorkshire weather keeping them clean probably!

@simonhenry7867 2 месяца назад

I think low light advantage is worth a lot more on EW systems Late night and early morning is completely lost by EVMs system

@OwBrown 2 месяца назад

Great video, you’ve help change the direction I was looking at for my solar installation. 👍🏼

@damieneaves5670 2 месяца назад

Well done for this, it shows you you are a man or integrity, that means you will only continue your sucess - really useful video!!!

@gadget231 2 месяца назад

Very interesting video... Looking forward to comparisons between the two of you in the future. You've also got me digging out my spec sheet for comparison 😆

@peteglass3496 2 месяца назад

Thanks for this info, learned a bit there. Certainly if your roof area is the limiting factor then picking the right 'philosophy' of panel is worthwhile.

@samuxan 2 месяца назад

I get the theoretical limit of my panels (3.6kw) a few hours a day even in winter and still think getting a more efficient option is the best alternative. I can't really use the electricity noon if I'm at work(my battery is quite small) but having the panels working around sunset or sunrise is quite useful. I just compared my data with a neighbour who has older panels and this morning his started to generate electricity at 8.20a.m. while mine did at 7.58 and not even facing east. Those hours of peak demand are the most valuable so having enough to get the inverter running is a game changer.

@OldCodeMonkey 2 месяца назад

What Enphase micro inverters are paired with the Rea panels? is it the IQ7+, as these are max generation of 296W but wakes up at lower light levels (22volts), a normal string inverter needs at least 200 volts to wake up. It might sound crazy pairing a 296W micro inverter with a panel that has the potential to generate 420W but in the UK you are unlikely to see more than about 330W from that panel due to non-perfect conditions. With micro inverters you always over size the panels, so the inverter is always running at peak performance. This most likely be why Harry is seeing greater generation plus the increased efficiency of the panels themselves.

@thomasneely2700 2 месяца назад

Well said! These panels should never be specified with IQ7+ It’s a complete waste of money it’s minimal cost to get to the IQ7A or IQ8

@simonduffy99 2 месяца назад

A string inverter installer would also likely over provision with panels too; clipping in summer but more generation the rest of the year.

@thomasneely2700 2 месяца назад

@@simonduffy99 the micro inverters will always output perform a string invert due to the start up voltage, so the will kick in quick and stay on lover even in lower light conditions It’s just the wrong inverters that Heatable spec with these REA panels it’s honestly pennies more for the correct ones

@stuartburns8657 2 месяца назад

Very interesting

@OldCodeMonkey 2 месяца назад

@@thomasneely2700 Enphase have a lot of data where the IQ7+ will perform as well, if not better than IQ7A or IQ8 due to the inverter starting up at lower panel voltages which can suit the UK more. Very much depends on the panel, micro inverter and location.

@kaf2303 2 месяца назад

Thanks for sharing, good info!

@salipander6570 2 месяца назад

I have a Growatt string inverter and a string of 8 cheapish P-panels in series, on East and no shadow troubles. The inverter starts working at 80V, so per panel only 10V is needed to begin delivering. This I can experience as soon as the sun rises: power increases rapidly. With cloudy (Dutch) weather there still is decent power for a long period of the day. I don't see why a microinverter can do better when it starts at 22V.

@xperyskop2475 2 месяца назад

If you have a string of 12 old panels they usually produce only as much as the lowest one on the string . If you have one weak panel it may affect the whole string

@markyates5744 2 месяца назад

@@xperyskop2475 I presume the presenter has one bad panel in his string that's damaging his arrays output. No way someone with 30% less power at same orientation should be doing more kWh per day like this. It's not a difference in the brand of panels.

@pixelpefekt 2 месяца назад

Looking forward to the longer-term review!

@robturner724 2 месяца назад

That's really interesting, something to consider then when looking to buy

@rhiantaylor3446 2 месяца назад

A key takeaway is that output on dull or off-season days is more valuable than on sunny days. It was mentioned that the better solution cost Harry £1500/1600 more but I didn't hear what % extra that represented.

@kelvinfaulkner3183 2 месяца назад

Really good insight into solar panels. I did not think there would be such a difference between makes.

@markyates5744 2 месяца назад

There really isn't! The testing they've used is not scientific at all and could be one of about 20 factors at play causing the difference (panel orientation, dirt, damaged cells, panels, faulty inverter, different weather, shading, etc.)

@elliot330 2 месяца назад

@@markyates5744 I agree. These are two different systems on two different houses. The only real comparison is that they are in the same town! I would like to see the different panels installed on the same roof, at least then it would be a fairer test

@badfly1 2 месяца назад

Had my solar PV in now (3.6Kwp) for nearly 13yrs. I have tracked the generation over the years by quarter and I can honestly state my panels generate the same now as the day they were put in. Still waiting for the degradation to start. Hopefully it’s not a sudden cliff edge. When my very lucrative FIT contact ends I will definitely look to upgrade my panels… the ones you are discussing will definitely be on my list to check out.

@barrymurton8988 2 месяца назад

Great blog guys. I still wonder as a senior if I can get the payback!

@colinrobinson7869 2 месяца назад

Love height chart on the door frame 😎

@greebo369 2 месяца назад

Good video as always, love the Toy Story door frame.

@stockdale1 2 месяца назад

Also good to see how far you can oversize your array compared to inverter mine can be 200%. Really good in winter.

@TheHughsie 2 месяца назад

When I got my system I specified panels that work in lower light as I’m further north that you :)

@salibaba 2 месяца назад

Good to point out but as you said it really requires research and sums. I got fairly cheap JA Solar panels and although we have optimisers on one of the strings with some chimney shading, I don’t think it gets loads compared to some others so hear of. In fairness I’m further North, and have split arrays between SSW & WNW 😢

@andrewdyson4255 2 месяца назад

Does the time difference between the purchase of the panels play a part? Ie are the latest more modern ones better and more efficient. But does that justify replacing older ones in favour of new ones

@cipmike1964 2 месяца назад

Bifacial panels do work on both sides. They catch reflective light from the back. Best used on concrete or ground mount systems. Cigs solar panels are crazy good in low light, best I've seen.

@ziggarillo 2 месяца назад

It depends on the installation, you can't just compare output.

@axelc8611 2 месяца назад

Just had 6 panels installed 425 watt longi and it's creating more power than they are rated for so impressed

@markyates5744 2 месяца назад

Cold spring days are the best for solar. They drop in output by about 0.3% for each 1C above 25C. Cold wind vs a hot sunny day makes a 1kW difference on mine. I'm doing 6.4kW on mine. Will also drop about 0.5% per year.

@swhiting100 2 месяца назад

Which make did you buy?

@axelc8611 2 месяца назад

@@swhiting100 mine are the Longi Himo x6 Explorer have 6 panels 2.5kw system but am making 3kw from them

@johnmunro4952 2 месяца назад

They are £1.20 per watt. Plus the micro inverters are £130 a panel. it's a VERY expensive outlay.... But in the case it does look like you get what you pay for.

@nicdensley4104 2 месяца назад

I've had a sort of similar realisation. I had a SE facing array in 2017. I've just had a NE array installed. I did man maths and expected 1/3 more power. In reality, it's more like 1/2 more power, what I underestimated what how much more efficient the new inverter is (both same make) and the low light performance. In most low light conditions I get the same power from my smaller NE array as my SE.

@JohnR31415 2 месяца назад

I get more than my rated power occasionally - bright late spring days. I do still wonder if I should have micro inverters or optimisers.

@Lewis_Standing 2 месяца назад

Might not be the panel's, might get micro inverters stopping a single cloud covering 1 panel switching off all EVMs production where the micro inverters preserve the non shaded panels output.

@marcexec 2 месяца назад

Bypass diodes do part of that job.

@ians3328 2 месяца назад

All very difficult as they constantly keep getting better value but at some point you have to actually buy something; doing the calcs at that point. I have an inroof system as I did not like (Wife !) the look of panels sticking up off the roof - would they work in that instance. We could all wait for "Perovskite Breakthroughs are the Future of Solar"

@campbellcopeland 2 месяца назад

I went for similar sounding (but not bifacial as these work better off the roof where reflected light can come back through them) Trina Vertex S+ N-Type panels with Enphase IQ7A microinverters and a GivEnergy AIO. I chose mine due to three roof aspects. As with anything though, there are pros and cons - the smaller IQ7+ generate more at lower light but clip too much for a 425W panel - even the 366W IQ7A hit its max & clips in March - but panels degrade so no real issue. A hybrid inverter & battery is also cheaper to extend and less losses than the AIO. But Enphase are solid solution so far & panel level monitoring is good benefit. Nice to see when chimney shades the one panel early morning and when the east/west cutover happens.

@Mepjc 2 месяца назад

I'm looking at an REA system with IQ7+ and am interested to here more about the clipping with the that microinverter. What orientation roof do you have and how much clipping per day do you see?

@Roobubba Месяц назад

@@Mepjc I have that system. Our roof is ENE/WSW split and we have seen no clipping at all yet this year (installed Feb). We paired with the givenergy AIO which along with an EV allows us to make the most of the intelligent octopus go tariff. Can thoroughly recommend Heatable and the system we have!

@RH-xj8hm 2 месяца назад

It’ll also depend on the inverter at play and also the cable length from panels to the inverter. Isn’t one a GIV hybrid & the other standalone inverter & AC coupled?

@Jaw0lf 2 месяца назад

I have had my panels for a long time and the new ones are better and there are obviously more things like micro inverters.All of these things could amend how the system behaves. I am happy with mine, but it is addictive and I always want to add more panels. This is now down to me getting a 3 phase supply though!

@kevinmatthews2620 2 месяца назад

you Git :) :), i had to pause the video and go and search Dr Google for rea panels in the UK, the only 2 drawbacks i can see is that they are only available from heatable currently, and you have to fit micro inverters with them, BUT from a safety point of view this is a plus,finding a suitable inverter/ac battery storage setup is the next conondrum as i have a due south flat roof which is earmarked for solar, pity i couldnt buy the panels elsewhere and diy it :)

@kevingannon1136 2 месяца назад

I can recommend Heatable having had and recommended several boiler installed from them and a Givenergy AIO being fitted by them next Friday

@AlexanderMonty 2 месяца назад

Heatable are a facade for poor installation.

@chriswright2552 4 дня назад

@@AlexanderMonty why's that?

@Adrayven 2 месяца назад

@EVM, you could look at getting Tigo O series optimizers for your panels and get a similar performance. he'll still win because of bifacial aspect. They come in simple optimizer mode and require no additional setup out of the box, but you can enable rapid shutdown/monitoring if you get the Controller (CCA)..

@ElectricVehicleMan 2 месяца назад

Already have them.

@MichaelDoran23 2 месяца назад

Bi facial panels can take bounced light from the roof.

@adrianwarner3926 2 месяца назад

You could always add Tigo optimisers to your PV array. Break up the voltage dependency in the string. It’ll also let you do per panel monitoring.

@user-uk4se5jp1s 2 месяца назад

I think it was DanEVSolar put out a vid this week and his Tigo's get him 3% more. I don't think they are worth it.

@davespages 2 месяца назад

50% more generation but all AC from micro inverters. There will be higher losses from AC to DC conversion for charging the batteries. Where as EVM string inverter would be dc-dc so less conversion losses when battery charging from solar. The conversion losses can be around 10% each way.

@BiohaZd5 2 месяца назад

Is the difference use to the inverter?

@rich81090 2 месяца назад

The micro inverters will be helping a lot more now with grey weather than in summer so I think you will catch up in the summer. But with how much grey days we have Harry’s is probably better.

@SimonCoates 2 месяца назад

I've searched the aisles at Waitrose and Aldi and I can't find those solar panels 🤔

@stevegame3000 2 месяца назад

Interesting anecdotal comparison. I have a similar recently installed system from Heatable. I went for the IQ8AC microinverters. My 5.8kWp array has already maxed out at 5kW a few times on a moderately sunny April day (west facing array) which I’m pretty pleased about. With IQ7+ microinverters the max would be 4kW on this array. I guess I’m wondering what, if any, generation I’m missing out on on dull days with an IQ7+ based system

@serraios1989 2 месяца назад

The IQ7+ produces more in relatively low light conditions

@Group51 2 месяца назад

Balls indeed! Didn’t even think about, wherever the difference is. Efficiency?

@ecoworrier 2 месяца назад

I have 85 220W panels installed 11 years ago on a 35 degree south facing roof with no shadow. I still have another 4 years of FIT where total yearly production is the best option to get maximum revenue. I will replace them in 4 years when i move to a self consumption tariff. Getting more electrons in low light morning, afternoon and winter will be more useful to me than the daily 120KWH i get on sunny days in August which i cannot personally consume. So my new requirements will need a different kind of panel

@ecoworrier 2 месяца назад

Also, here in Luxembourg, a domestic installation can have a max 30KWp. Over this size is deemed commercial. By the time I replace my 220W panels, 440W panels will probably be standard so my old 19.5 KWp array would double to 39KWp. If I can cap that at 30KWp with undersized microinverters I should get really good low light and winter production

@kennshearer526 2 месяца назад

Thank you. Interesting video. Just one little point - May be clearer if you didn’t talk over each other 😁 Possibly it’s a Yorkshire thing 😂

@mikethefordprefect2883 2 месяца назад

Using 2 string solax invertor no optimisers (a mistake!!) and 10 panels E and 10 west can actually get 1 watt from full moon! panels 360 watt mono black Longi. During clouds both sides produce the same power 200 watts in Feb and ~400W in July!. Because of EW config The max power in full sun is limited and flattened so 20 panels do not overload the invertor (3.5kw produced 10Am and 1600 but summing together to give 5kw at 13:00 July). Beware the shading from trees in winter (if no optimiser) the sun angle is minisculer than we thought (Gloucestershire)

@robjones8950 2 месяца назад

Similar to heat pumps. Not all 10kw heat pumps produce the same output - depends on the temperatures they’re rated at

@PaulRansonArt 2 месяца назад

The one factor is ROI over a period of time. If your settled in a property and plan to be there for a good few years then the top of the range panels make sense. But if you might move in say 5 - 10 years then the increased costs may not have been realised. The other factor is usage. For an all electric household with EV's batteries etc then the better panels make sense. Its a moving feast for sure.

@bartvanhoof6278 2 месяца назад

You can get your money back when you sell/rent the house out after leaving it ... the increased costs (they mentioned 1-1.5k) for a more expensive system are negligible considering the overal value of the house you are selling (and the increased price you can ask due to the panels on the roof ... coupled with a home battery system and home charger and adapted heating system etc. ... see other EVM videos). "Top of the range" ... I prefer most "optimal setup for your house/situation (cost, generation, battery, etc. etc.)" ... is always the best solution no matter what. People are obsessed with ROI for households ... what are you going to do when your investment has depreciated? you going to fit new panels? Is there even a market for second hand solar panels that are 8-10 years old? No, you'll probably keep them on your roof for 20-30 years (warrantee period for solar panels) and then maybe consider replacing them ... with today's prices (panels/energy) you'll have passed your ROI date comfortably within the period. You should not have installed the panels with a loan anyway ... it is an investment you've made into your household to give you peace of mind that the bulk of your electricity use (for home and car) you've generated yourself, being as "green" as possible.

@PaulRansonArt 2 месяца назад

@@bartvanhoof6278 Thank you for such a detailed reply Thats exactly what I thought until I asked some local estate agents here in the UK. I asked 'Will I get a better price when I sell my home in say 5 years?" Reply - - "Probably not. We see it as a bonus that's all" As we're on a tight budget with our investments tied up for a few more years its all still in the balance. I think maybe an new 'A' class combi boiler and tip top insulation will be the option we go for.

@bartvanhoof6278 2 месяца назад

@@PaulRansonArt My previous reply was deleted ... but here's another (different) one ... You are saying that the following scenario is the case (as per the local real estate agents you spoke to) ... House A and House B are both for sale with the same real estate agent ... they are terraced houses and are located right next to each other ... they are the same in all aspects ... except House A has a home battery, EV charge point, PV array on the roof and has a air source heat pump, where Home B has the standard gas heating system in place, which was updated on the same day as House A did all the installation for what was previously mentioned ... so that real estate agent will list both houses for 150k and say to buyers "hey, House A has some bonuses." From my view, House A is an instant buy, whereas I'm really going to haggle down House B to maybe 110-120k so the any future investments are covered by the difference in buying price ... and even then House A has all that baked into the mortgage, so any money I'd use to invest in House B, I could reduce the mortgage with in House A ... so overall I still come out better with House A. Find a real estate agent that actually is up to speed with modern, sustainable developments and how much benefit they provide to a homeowner (lowering monthly costs) ... my previous post as a link to a recent article in The Guardian covering sustainable home improvements and price changes.

@PaulRansonArt 2 месяца назад

I couldn't agree more. If I were the savvy buyer I'd jump at house A too. But you hit the nail on the head as most estate agents here in the UK are pretty clueless with regards to modern sustainable developements (apologies to those agents who are up to speed). Its a shame that the UK is so far behind the rest of the world with these new technologies. But can you blaim folk for being reluctant to accept this. Just a few years ago our government encouraged us to buy the 'cleaner eco friendly' diesels vehicles .... The diesel miselling claims are like a paper snow storm here in the UK. TBH if I had a spare £20,000 I'd be the first to have solar,battery and ASHP. The diesel is still being paid for and will be for some time - all best wishes @@bartvanhoof6278

@Mark-bl3wg 2 месяца назад

Can you add these to different panels?

@britlooking 2 месяца назад

Was fascinated looking at the left legs tucked under the right legs in a sort of yoga position. Rarely seen in tandem.

@simonhenry7867 2 месяца назад

Yorkshire yoga.

@TrevorHa 2 месяца назад

Did i miss what inverter you went for? I heard micro inverters which will equate this generation difference compared to the panel itself. The panel might be a fraction better. I would go micro inverters but the cost puts me off, plus repair/replacement is a faff should they die. I went with 3x solis inverters, mainly Trina N-Type panels mainly for simlicity. Nearly got some tigo's for shading reasons but didn't in the end. if I could justify the cost (I have a lot of panels) I would of went for the enphase micro's to really get the most from every panel.

@gonzo_the_great1675 2 месяца назад

I lived in Yorkshire for a few years, so must have caught some of the ethos.... My system is all made up of ex-solar farm 235/280watt panels and covered every surface I could find. But at the time panels were still expensive. Now you can get 400W panels for under £100, so I'd probably not male the same decision now. Also my system is all DIY, so no grants or feed in. So the calculations differ a bit.

@zombiestyled 2 месяца назад

Should be a good watch. Noticed some 425w panels were £90 ex vat last week. With an inverter bringing a 12 panel set up to just over £2k, then you have to worry when the consumer will see some value back from installers.

@markyates5744 2 месяца назад

Several websites like ITS Technology and midsummerwholesale have 400w+ panels from £65+vat!

@zombiestyled 2 месяца назад

@@markyates5744 saw a quote for an install today. 10x 420w panels all together on single Storey roof, diverter and inverter about a grand. No battery. Quote £7900.

@bloodynorahvan2203 2 месяца назад

We got JA solar panels, which are bi-facial, good in partial shading and 1/5 of the price. Harry's right, this next-gen are much better at generation, even in January and are much cheaper than previous generations

@gregcarnall9097 4 дня назад

Hi, sorry if i missed this, but i would like to know what panels you had on your roof? How budget were they? Also when i have just had 6-7 quotes for good quality panels the Heatable micro invertor set up was 5k more expensive than other quotes with the jinko Tiger Neo panels for example. I'm not sure thats a premium worth paying?

@colinthompson2335 2 месяца назад

Anyone know what happened to the combined PV and hot water panels that were announced several years ago? They were said to be better at PV generation because the water kept the panel temperature down on really hot days, plus they gave hot water as well as PV power.

@jasoncole9333 2 месяца назад

Can we list the panels and inverter names please

@13thearl 2 месяца назад

I asked installers for quotes and accepted the one from the company who seemed to know what they were doing (one company tried to rate the house roof suitability using satellite pictures of the wrong house). My installed maximum capacity in theroy is 3.85kw but recently the array exceeded this by about .15kw. Panels are 385W Mono PERC Half Cell whatever that means...Panels were installed in July 22

@13thearl 2 месяца назад

Oh, and this morning 12th Apri, on a light cloudy morning in Norfolk they came to life about 6.40am

@bitman666 2 месяца назад

I have 16 panels (3.2 kw max under Feed In Tariff scheme) so only 200W per panel so I can see how far the tech has progressed. Unfortunately I don't believe I can upgrade my system without losing the FIT payments, I could have new panels but fewer of them to not exceed 3.2 kw (as I understand it). I'm not sure if I can install a completely separate system with a battery, my current setup uses a SunAmp to store energy for hot water.

@stuartburns8657 2 месяца назад

I think you can install a totally separate system but under the SEG

@PaulMcCormack1968 2 месяца назад

@@stuartburns8657I believe you can replace faulty or degraded panels like for like, but yes, if you "upgrade" you will lose the FIT. My panels are 13 years old and still produce as much as when they were new

@EgoShredder 2 месяца назад

It's a case of whatever you choose is only as good as the weakest link in the system. So look for optimal components throughout the system, and either keep them well matched or include headroom for future expansion.

@andymccabe6712 2 месяца назад

In a solar PV system though ..optimal really only relates to the panels...... ...although....maybe some inverters are more efficient than others .. but, by how much ..and at what cost...!? It's easy to stray into nerd territory here - leading to zero sum ... !

@EgoShredder 2 месяца назад

@@andymccabe6712 Aye that is true.

@garethjones2125 2 месяца назад

I’m just looking to take the plunge with a solar + battery installation. I have had a quote from Heatable for the type of system Harry has and for my size of install it’s about £3k more expensive than two other competitor installs. I like the idea of panels which are more suited to the UK poor weather, but am struggling to decide if the extra cost is worth it.

@ElectricVehicleMan 2 месяца назад

What panels are the others quoting? Same battery system?

@garethjones2125 2 месяца назад

@@ElectricVehicleMan The others seem to be using Jinko Tiger Neo panels, but batteries are similar capacities but different manufactures, Givenergy and Sunsynk.

@ElectricVehicleMan 2 месяца назад

@@garethjones2125 Giv are a higher level and warranty etc than sunsynk. Apples to apples comparison needs doing.

@Dominic_Bolton 2 месяца назад

Do you have micro inverters or optimisers at all? If not and with two opposing aspects on one inverter that’s where your losses are…

@elvyn123 2 месяца назад

As a solar panel will supply less output on a cloudy day (in UK) I don't see any figures advertised for anything less than full sunlight anywhere? (I thought the same, most efficient, cost etc.) If full sunlight on panel = 100% does 50% sunlight = 50% output or is it les?

@ArryBradbury 2 месяца назад

Interesting. How old are yours and have they been cleaned recently EVM?

@andymccabe6712 2 месяца назад

Well....my solar array is 12 years and four months old ...and, to my knowledge..has been cleaned precisely ZERO times..... ....however ...we do get a LOT of rain.....!!!

@tonyclark5854 2 месяца назад

I guess your solar panels don’t feed your underfloor heating as you both can only touch the floor with one foot ? :)

@hamshackleton 2 месяца назад

Nice-looking turntable on the (er) table - what is it?

@royobanank9868 Месяц назад

Can you advise on Harry's full system, ie which panels and battery did he go for

@ElectricVehicleMan Месяц назад

Panels are in this video and the battery is in the previous one. Also see the next video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RKeS0ESTrb4.html

@vandit83 2 месяца назад

The comparison begins! My neighbour has 18 panels and I have 12 but I’m making more. But some of his are 10 years old. My panels are rated at 420w but I’ve been making 441w at some points.

@davidstewart1153 2 месяца назад

I expect to have a difficult choice as my panels reach their payback period. Surely by then the panels will be way better and/or cheaper, and the old stuff is in measurable decline.

@Stune5 29 дней назад

Don't suppose it would be possible to share any data on Harry's output to help 'shine a light' on how well they are actually performing. Eg it produced 100kwh in Jan, 150 in Feb etc What the lowest generation achieved in a day is always an interesting metric especially since they are selling these on excelling in light light conditions. Any hard numbers would be much appreciated

@ElectricVehicleMan 29 дней назад

All I know at the moment is that he’s def outperforming me.

@martinbuddery1345 2 месяца назад

Could you get Alan Bennet to present the next video? I'd definitely watch that one

@whlphil 2 месяца назад

Would be very surprised if it’s the panels, most panels are pretty similar in terms of yield, some of the newer N type panels do produce maybe 6% more over a year The difference will be shade and control of shade by optimisers / micro inverters even small shade will account for 30% yield difference Avoid budget panels, they’ll work fine to start with but will give issues on the 5-10 year time frame. Always base a large part of purchasing decisions on who gives the warranty and the size of the manufacturer i’d stick to those in the top ten manufacturers

@b5bobby Месяц назад

I’ve come to the same conclusions as Harry, a Micro inverter based system and I’ve been researching alternative panel but finding installers that will install what I want rather than what they normally do has proved difficult, I’m currently coming to the opinion that beatable might very well be my best option, for me the price difference is higher than Harry’s as I want 30 panels so you’ll probably realised heatable are about 4K dearer than others but the panels are not as good although they are better than most. I’ve been uming and aging for several months and I’m planning a final decision this fall ( I have building work to get finished first), but I’m now pretty sure I’m going with heatable and the REA Fusion 2 panel which Harry correct said are a heatable exclusive in uk, could Harry tell Me what micro inverters were installed for his panel? I know they are emphases but the model and ac output would be handy to know to compare prices with fairly.

@jasoncole9333 2 месяца назад

What if evm swapped some capacity for micro inverters

@usaverageguy 2 месяца назад

Do you ever see a maximum output from your panels equal to the rated output? My 7.8kw array has never produced more than 6.9kw. My installer says that is normal.

@Dirt-Diggler 2 месяца назад

I have much smaller installation but I have seen over max quoted output a few times, when the sun reappears from a cloud (panel has cooled down) usually in winter on clear days, otherwise normally i see 75% as the maximum 🤔

@stuartburns8657 2 месяца назад

I've got 15x395w panels. Max on paper 5,925. I've seen 6,024w mid May 2023 (bright / sunny and not too warm) In June and July I'll produce more per day, but the peak output is less due to panels heating up (decreases efficiency)

@alanrickett2537 2 месяца назад

That is normal as even, a sunny day in the UK is not close to perfect conditions you can get elsewhere in the world. It's also likely that your panels are not at the 52 and change degrees you need to be square on to the sunlight.

@JohnThomas-ey1hx 2 месяца назад

Lot of factors mean your actually comparing apples and pears. Your panels are much older (3yrs?), less efficient (18.6% vs 22%), higher degradation (80% vs 85% over 25y), and using different inverter (Hybrid vs micro inverters). The REA Fusion 2 panels are exclusive to Heatable and they also insist on micro inverters with their installs. Clearly the combination of REA panels + Enphase micro inverters works very well in low light. The gap may reduce when you hit Summer, but Harry's will still always generate more as they are newer with slower degradation, more efficient and also using micro inverters. The REA panels have clear gaps between the cells which is meant to let light through the front and bounce it back to the panel on the underside. I doubt whether the bi-facial is making much (if anything) to the difference in output. Solar technology is improving all the time and you can only buy the best available at the time, and due to supply issues a few years back, the best of those that were actually available. Don't beat yourself up about it as it will always bug you. I still think a 50% jump is more than expected, and it just may be you have an issue with one of your panels.

@stuartburns8657 2 месяца назад

I think the efficiency thing is a bit of a myth? Panel A 18% efficiency output 400w Panel B 25% efficiency output 400w Both produce 400w :) I think the micro inverters are more a factor

@FoxInClogs 2 месяца назад

Is the difference down to the panels or the difference between a string inverter and micro inverters? (Or a bit of both?) p.s. My original panels, installed in Feb 2014, still reach their 250(!!!) Watt peak under ideal conditions. I also haven't noticed any loss on a year to year basis, although obviously some years are sunnier than others. I moved these panels last year and replaced them with 21x 420 Wp panels connected to an 8 kW three phase inverter. These occasionally peak out at 8.9 kW, so both PV and inverter ratings would seem to be the (minimum) guaranteed values, not what they're actually capable of.

@colintwyning9614 2 месяца назад

need numbers. interesting anecdotes

@leftcoaster67 2 месяца назад

It all comes down to Vodka? Supermarket vs. Triple Distilled!

@TheRonskiman 2 месяца назад

Two different systems five miles apart, of course they are going to give different generation results, did you both have glorious blue skies all day? One could have more clouds than the other, thicker clouds, a more optimal roof pitch, a better azimuth, more efficient inverter, and as another poster said micro inverters will often produce more as one panels bird poo or shading doesn't affect another, panels could be hotter, which means they will generate less. Therefore it should now be clear the difference is not solely down to the panels. Oh, and Bifacial panels really do generate power with light from both sides, they are not really designed for roof mount systems, they are more suited to installations where light is reflected onto the backs, think ground mounts etc.

@neilm9400 2 месяца назад

Every every product has it Ferraris to it's trabants, whether it's chocolate or electronics. But thank you, for the reminder. Looking forward to tracking the data.

@thomasneely2700 2 месяца назад

As your mate got these from Heatable, unfortunately he did not get the best value As Heatable use REA panels and pair them with Enphase micro inverters, the problem is these should be spec’d with IQA8 or IQ7A Heatable only supply the cheaper low output IQ7+ Micro inverters which can only output 295 watts per panel max So on the 400+ watt panels these will never generate 400+ watts

@PVOK232 2 месяца назад

What you gain at the top, you loose at the bottom. Check out the Enphase data for the comparison between the 7+ and 7A. It’s less than 1% in Europe and a price increase of €17 each. I still fit 7’s here in mainland (not the x). You need to oversize panels to keep inverters working hard to achieve the maximum efficiency. Good video 👍🏻

@thomasneely2700 2 месяца назад

Completely wrong and we use £’s in the UK IQ8 have a lower startup voltage so your argument does not stack up and this change alone can improve the panel output from 295 to 384 watts That’s massive

@PVOK232 2 месяца назад

@@thomasneely2700 solarshop.baywa-re.lu/core/media/media.nl?id=7987331&c=6376560&h=aboRaz6CK_tdD4QDVbnQMPRG4J7X9olmXG9szvndBPWKNQvf&_xt=.pdf On a 425KWp module, it’s less than 1% over 25 years between the 7+ and 7A. Being that both the 8MC is lower rated than the 7A and the 8AC is the same, it would be a larger outlay for a near identical result. So. No, you’re wrong.

@PVOK232 2 месяца назад

I’m not wrong. Enphase publish their own data on this. They compare the 7+ (295w) and the 7A (366w). Over a 25 year period the clipping losses are less than 0.75%. This was in the Netherlands where the radiation is higher than it is in north England. IQ8 MC’s are 325w and iQ8 AC are 366w so, the same or less than the 7A which the data uses. solarshop.baywa-re.lu/core/media/media.nl?id=7987331&c=6376560&h=aboRaz6CK_tdD4QDVbnQMPRG4J7X9olmXG9szvndBPWKNQvf&_xt=.pdf

@PVOK232 2 месяца назад

@matthewwakeham2206 2 месяца назад

I didn't think you'd put bifacial panels on a roof as they are two sided so if the back is in the dark it's not doing anything. They do appear to be half-cut cells with extra bus bars which handle shading much better. Half cut type panels are like several small panels combined into one so shading on one part of the panel only cuts out say 1/6 of the panel vs 1/3 for a standard panel. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-otovXbs_qZs.html

@christ6968 2 месяца назад

The gloves are off 😂

@huwsparky175303 2 месяца назад

Are they both tier 1 panels?

@VinoVeritas_ 2 месяца назад

Irrelevant.

@rajanpatel65 2 месяца назад

Nice video, wish you’d let Harry speak a little bit more before interjecting.

@80y3r9 2 месяца назад

Paint me silly, it must be a Sunday!

@RichardABW 2 месяца назад

Surely significantly because the other system is effectively optimised with individual MPPT’s per panel. So any minor differences between panels doesn’t matter, on the normal string they’ll all be performing the same as the weakest panel.

@serraios1989 2 месяца назад

A string inverter scanning constantly the mppt of the array will cause the panels’ diodes to engage and maximise output. Plenty of videos on YT about this

@IanMcc1000 2 месяца назад

EVM - You bought the wrong panels episode.

@PlanXV 2 месяца назад

Bad comparison no discussion on controllers ; wire guage length, storage capacity ; inverter capacity, a whole nest of bottlenecks 😅

@ElectricVehicleMan 2 месяца назад

Which is why we said it’s the start of the comparison. You’re confusing topics. This is about the mindset change and isn’t comparing actual installs at this stage.