Sonic Heroes (Part 1) - Sonic Was Always Good 

Yeah It’s a dumb joke

Ehhh nah

no

Yes.

Sonic and the Secret Coins

Such a good bit that it just became official LMAO

Sonic Heroes is bad but can be good. Similar to Riders but more so.

The thing I have with Heroes is it has the great foundation and design for a game. Like all the stuff is there. Interesting level design with interesting level themes and gimmicks. Game has you move fast with lots of interesting ways of movement through levels with lots of verticality. I like the complexity of having all these characters with different types of special moves that complement each other to where you essentially "chain" their moves together. In terms of personality or having a fun story, the game has that too. The real problem is like, just in terms of the game's flow, it feels very stiff and jerky. There is no natural sense of flow to the game. Almost every move has some sort of delay or stiffness to it or feels like it takes some aspect of control away from the player. The team mechanic, as interesting as it is design-wise, is another thing that basically handicaps the game from having any sense of flow, because you're essentially switching between two or three different extremes in speed. There's no momentum. You have speed characters that move like they're on crack and the other characters just feel like slow tanks with anchors attached to their feet. it doesn't create a natural or satisfying gameplay feel when you feel like you're being "yanked" between speeds You can argue with the latter point that maybe it's an unavoidable consequence of the game's gimmick. If you have a team mechanic where you have "speed characters", then obviously the other characters are going to have to be slower in comparison, otherwise the system just has no point. But it just makes the game feel so rigid. Idk, when I play any game, I like to feel rewarded by my ability to maintain a sense of flow. if I move through a level as stylishly and seamlessly as possible, then I know I'm playing well and it feels satisfying. So to have a game where the idea is it literally jerks you back and disrupts you from the cool shit you're doing just to complete a shoehorned and more tedious task that the other characters get to do and slowing the pace of gameplay down in the process... it doesn't "feel good" to play, I guess is the problem And the non-speed characters, even though I understand the idea conceptually, they're just not integrated very well. For the most pat, the only characters that fit into the level design naturally are the speed characters, and in order to make the other characters useful, they just have random chunks of levels where it's like "Oh, its time to hover between generic floating blocks in the most slow platforming ever" or "Its time to mindlessly mash buttons against dumb waves of enemies because I have a door gating my progress". The fact that controls feel stiff or slippery or awkward mitigate how crappy those gameplay elements are. The speed characters are like the only characters for which the levels feel like actual fucking levels, but the flight characters are so limited in use that the sections designed for them barely constitutes as actual level design, and the power characters are just there to fight rooms of enemies, which isn't bad on paper, but like, in practice, its so counter-opposed to the appeal of the rest of the game. The satisfaction in a game like this comes from forward momentum and making quick progression through setpieces and so if the game just locks you into rooms constantly, its like an inherent contradiction where you can't really have fun doing either because the pieces of the game are working against itself. It's the reason why most games don't mix combat with movement-focused gameplay like that. If you have combat which disrupts you from being on the run but your gameplay appeal comes from speedy progression through the level... you have a problem. The fact that the combat is kinda mind-numbing and controls a bit poorly makes it worse I don't hate the game at all, I actually do enjoy the team system and character abilities and level design, even with those complaints. But when I play the game, i have to play it in the mindset of, "This is a kinda stiff or jerky game where you can't take it as seriously". With SA2, even though that game has a bit of roughness if you're not careful, it's pretty easy to get used to with some muscle memory. You don't have the play the game like you're balancing your tippy toes or having to endure slow bits or wait for animations to end. The problem with Sonic Heroes is, you can get past its roughness if you just want to enjoy it casually, but if you want to look to the game as something more, something to master where you perfect all the level design and get super zoned into timings and shit, the awkwardness is literally immersion-breaking. You have to play "around" the game rather than just playing it. In a lot of ways, its the same kind of problems with vanilla 06 (it's not nearly as broken obviously but its like 06 in the sense of it not being super refined or smooth, and so you can't get too invested iin the game's flow because some parts of it just feel like ass)

​@zrexx9428 I think it's just one of those "you need replay for flow" kinda games where you had to get the read of the area before having a free flow of it...even without the jank I can see some players having issues with the switching mechanic (although gate switches supposedly helps the flow) but if you replay a level I think you'd eventually get a hang of it as a deliberate replayability aspect IMO.

That's basically Heroes in a nutshell, yeah. lol

Kinda like Sonic 06 for me

If I ever find pariah irl somehow I will slap him

@@SanicConnoisseur_91 You want to physically harm someone because of a video game item, even if it's a joke and the one who did the joke themselves did not felt right saying the item name incorrectly

@@user-ch8hq7vb2x Thanks captain obvious That comment was made 9 months ago, your input has rendered useless

@@SanicConnoisseur_91 If it is so obvious, why did you still said it knowing it is not something good to say? Just because I said this 9 months later does not make what you said any less shitty you arrogant little brat

@@SanicConnoisseur_91 what

@@SanicConnoisseur_91 The hell...? What is wrong with you?

@@superplayerex2431 That was a vent. Ignore me. But also, what’s it to you? I’ll say what I want.

@@SanicConnoisseur_91 Okay then, I'll say what I want as well. You are a weirdo.

​@@superplayerex2431what did he say?

This guy is giving cybershell's comedy a run for its money. We might have our new best sonic content creator right here. (I sure hope he talks exclusively about sonic for the rest of his time in youtube as sonic fans are not allowed to like any other franchise)

I made a Sonic Movie 2 GUITAR COVER 😎🦔🎸🔥

@@mau2172 cybershell is better

@@rickywsbiggestfan3916 And still better lmao

This and Unleashed

Tbh i think shadow is way better than heroes in terms of gameplay

It's an example of complex yet arguably easy to master (the opposite of simple yet hard to master)...the moment you have replayed a level a decent amount of times the more likely you have memorized what you need to do at that moment with the many moves making that more interesting.

​@sonicwithglasses131 In Shadow the combat is no where near as complex and Shadow is even harder to control at high speeds.

Unleashed doesn't have combat as fun as heroes but it's still a hundred times better than Pac-Man World 3

If he wouldn’t say it so often or bring it up at all I would be ok with it but the joke sucks

I call ratio

@@Inactivechannel-r6 pfff

Jokes dead Died on sonic 1 part 2 and is the unfunniest shit I’ve heard

@@SanicConnoisseur_91 Collect 100 coins and gain an extra SanicConnoissuer, you'll feel better.

@@WeeAddy You know what that does in Mario? I don’t bc I don’t remember as it’s been ages since I last played a Mario game. And no I feel like shit still. If anything I want to take my SanicConnoissuer!

ITS BETTER THAN COINS THANK YOU

Jokes dead

mhm

Ok that joke was funny This guy keeps doing it and it’s old and annoying

Xbox is pesk

@@Jaylobeans PS2 version is the worst version. PC and XBox have visual and audio issues.

the main thing i remember from playing heroes is always the jank lol. physics are absolutely terrible the pinball stages are hell

Yes him saying multiple times that people hate the game because it “requires you to think and make decisions” is weirdly contrarian, at least to me. Like yeah, that’s why man. Make sure not to mention Chaotix or Team Rose. I remember blasting through this game on team Sonic a few months ago without dying and I hadn’t played it since I was like 6 years old. The enemies are a lot more rock-paper-scissorsy than he was portraying, in my opinion. Like by the time you reach any dangerous enemy encounters at least one of your characters is probably level 3 so you just wreck them.

I will be talking about a lot of the other issues in part 2. As I said, the decision making comes from my desire to optimize. If you just want to kill stuff, it is easy. But doing it as quickly as possible takes a bit more. These comments make me realize I failed to properly communicate my meaning. I meant to say that these things and people not understanding them means people miss the stuff that makes the game fun. Then all that's left is the jank, level design issues, and tedium. But because of the stuff I enjoy, I can tolerate these issues. Thanks for the comments. I will try to address these things in part 2.

I think there's a sort of raw satisfaction to killing enemies in this game, but I really wouldn't consider it deep. More often than not it's a simple order-of-operations thing (have Sonic remove the shield first, basically) up until the point where Thunder Shoot reaches a level where it solos encounters. I don't have a problem with the game's combat as much as it's just... these level designers don't know when to let up. These levels just go on and on and responding to the same cues (whether explicit or not) just gets old.

@@kyasarintsu4047 Two level designers worked on heroes, one of them is the infamous Takashi Izuka.

Battle and Fighters are spinoffs

@@themissingbits6375 Still sonic game

I thought that was the case too. But I tested it and no. You just always go faster when crouching. It should have totally worked like that.

@@Pariah6950 that's factually incorrect. There are vertical rails on final rush that you need forward momentum to get up. You can't just crouch and scale them with no momentum.

@@Rusty_Spy I didn't mean that. I meant that crouching is always faster than not. In that example, you lose less speed going up those rails if you crouch than if you don't.

The special stages working does sound nice. But I don't really care about them in general lol. I'm also thinking about it from the perspective of a first time player. They could get killed over and over by loops and not know what's happening. That's no good. I actually do also kind of like how you have to line up the light speed dash, even if it does come as a product of bad detection. I cut that out of the video because it is still a dumb problem that shouldn't be there. Everything else will be talked about in part 2. And yeah, the way that they did the difficulty select is the dumbest thing ever. Who on Earth is going to start a Sonic game with anyone but Sonic? You start the game on normal mode, then eventually go down to easy after playing the game a bunch already, possibly after also trying hard mode. Stupid. That will definitely be getting a mention.

I don't write scripts for my videos. It's just me talking off the top of my head.

@@Pariah6950 that's impressive! it's sounds like you had a script

You can do a lot with editing lol.

@@Pariah6950 Dang that's pretty impressive not gonna lie, I would never be able to articulate my thoughts like that.

@@Pariah6950 Do you at least write notes so that you don't go off topic?

Kill me

why is this worded so aggressively

Kill me

The few times I throw this game on I actually tend to pick Chaotix just because I got stuck on their levels SO MUCH as a kid and all their voice clips just give me warm nostalgic fuzzies lmao. Charmy going “thank you!” and Espio’s “LETS GO!” are some of the first things I think of when this game is mentioned. I love those characters even though their levels are absolute dogshit

@@MixxedBerries Right?! Like when you have a mission to collect/find so many things....and you missed just 1! Lol

And yet some say Sea Gate is unnecessary and antithetical to Sonic due to the pace breaking, when it's apparent it's not meant to be a proper level...I will agree a way to naturally incorporate tutorial into level design is probably more preferable, like needing the character aura moves to defeat certain enemies for example.

the ps2 version being a broken mess didn't help its reputation either

Thats an error in translating from japanese, obviously

I've turned my fanbase into monsters.

@@Pariah6950 lol😂😂

Kill me

Did you See part 2?

@@themissingbits6375 Lmao i watched it after i posted this. Didnt see the part 2 at the time.

@@themissingbits6375 The fact he churns these videos out so quickly and theyre so in depth really is impressive. There are a lot of Sonic RU-vidrs i folllow that also do these videos but he goes over things not all of them do even if the other ones also go pretty in depth. In depth game analysis videos is my jam and Pariah's are def unique. Also sorry just saw this too 5 months later

I actually kinda regret to make that comment after 5 months, i feel like i had made a bit to many comments on his videos. But yeah i also like that he goes very in depth, but not in a Way where it get overwhemlingy in depth like J Reviews Can be in his videos (I say “Can” because sometimes that not the case)