honestly the people on console should demand this same thing as the folks on PC, because yet again PSN is known for being hacked which means they can potentially get screwed again and again, because PSN is not a safe network. and they saw just how effective this move was, so they have to realize their power in this situation. they don't have to be console peasants, they can demand shit from Sony and get their way if they band together on whatever the issue may be.
@@dominuslogik484 Oh yeah, that's one huge reason out of the infinite amount of reasons why I don't play on consoles. It's insane to me how they put up with that on those platforms.
Now that the line between console and PC is very thinly vane PC master race is looking like a much better option for gamers even if there's no physical versions
Thank you Steam for giving us a platform where we can win. No other platform gives some voice to the players and accepts refunds like that. We see Sony no longer cares about "security
"security" as in ability to ban Steam players from the game more effectively, plenty of CM's on record that this was the hole reason, yet it is totally possible to ban Steam Users with the unique Steam ID. Their "tech support" tools just aren't made with handling Steam Accounts in mind. Everything else, user numbers, investors, selling your data, all of that stuff is conspiracy theorist territory, it is not unlikely of course but there is not one actual piece of proof about any of that in context of this.
@@ZeroB4NG dont care what it is used for. It was not mentioned, arrowhead ceo even admitted he knew but let all steam users buy it even from countries where no psn is possible without console. Its a shitshow, a greedy shitshow
@@ZeroB4NGselling data isn't the issue it's that sony has data security about as reliable as a 15$ master lock this data breaches being near annual events for them.
@@shemsuhor8763 Gaben better have a legacy plan to keep his principals alive after he is gone. Inb4 he uses an AI model of himself to run the company after his death.
yes, but you have to "eternally fight to keep it", this was what one of the founding fathers once said when talking about the constitutional republic, which is the path to not only victory but also the path to eternal freedom.
@@user-tp5yb4hr4w I agree with that and if I shift my attention to the real world and the sad state it's in, I'd say that the tree of liberty is looking awfully famished.
Arrowhead: This goose lays golden eggs Sony: I feel like having goose soup for dinner Also: Sony: let's sell this great game to more markets outside the PSN-network Also Sony 3 months later: BTW, you guys need a PSN-account Valve: Hollup!
I know that Sony was pulling the strings all the time, but those Community Managers did a TERRIBLE job at handling the situation. They were completely ignorant of the real issue players would face and yet they kept the condescending tone. Listening to the fans and understanding the problems they're having is literally their job, and yet they behave like teenagers that just have found social media. VERY unprofessional.
It's the same story with a lot of other controversies that blew up like "Do you guys not have phones?", and "pride and accomplishment". These things turning into a big deal seem to often be less about the initial event that instigated it, and more about the terrible PR response that galvanizes people's anger.
@@ababcb3005 Agreed, gamers know often publishers and their execs are out here squeezing every penny out of the consumer, and sometimes you need to make that game people won't like to make that games people WILL like, or compromise on your product to get it out the door and your family fed. They could have just kept their mouth shut, look sad and had the gamers on their side and just stated the facts, that the whole thing is above their pay grade, but nah, lets antagonize the people. People saying Spitz did nothing wrong, but was just not being tactful. Spitz is a community manager, the reason why community managers exist is an interface between the consumers and the devs that are in their caves coding all day and suffering from eternal crunch and therefore have zero social skills. Their job is to manage the community, part of which is being tactful and not making volatile situations even worse. "We have heard your concerns in regards to the recent PSN account linking requirement. While we recognize this is an inconvenience to some, this feature has been in the game since release, but was disabled during launch to alleviate sign-in server issues. If you have feedback please get in touch with (insert PSN CS email) and make your voices heard. We do not control publication or access to the game, that is the responsibility of our publisher. Sorry for the inconvenience." Came up with that in 30 seconds, is it really that hard? Say that, and let it blow up, as it did on its own, no need to pour that gas on and risk the trail coming back to you.
There's an interesting situation where modern gaming Community Managers hate their audience and are salivating at the idea of banning any fun they disagree with. It's only going to become worse as AI is deployed as jannie.
Gotta say, I wasn't sure if Sony was gonna fold, but damn it if I'm not impressed by the efforts of Helldivers fans to rock the boat like a damn tidal wave. I already had a PSN account so it would've been business as usual for me, but the more I looked into it, the more it annoyed me because they sold the game in countries where PSN wasn't offered. Arrowhead was also dragged in with Sony's BS so much, and I remember the CEO's Twitter post where it felt like the light was fading from his eyes. People were even review-bombing Helldivers 1 and Magicka, which made no sense whatsoever. I can only hope that people revert those reviews now, but we'll see how that goes.
i still don't trust Sony, they were willing to embrace serfdom on their players, hell i would even say they still do believe in serfdom with their console counterpart audience. but if they want to be free of PSN's bondage, they know they have the power, they just have to demand it like the PC players have.
Not saying that fan backlash didn’t play a vital role in blowing up this issue, but the only reason they folded is because they allowed the game to be sold in regions that CANNOT legitimately play the game due to lack of PSN availability, which is a massive legal issue. They basically had 3 possible options: 1. Allow everyone from anywhere in the world to make a PSN 2. Refund the game for everyone in the affected regions 3. Take out the stupid and completely unnecessary PSN requirement Due to that little oopsy there was literally no option where they could hold the line.
Same boat. Already had a PSN account from my PS3 days but more I found out about Sony's data breaches, more I am rethinking that. If they don't reopen the game to those 177 countries in the near future, I think we can take it as a sign of a temporary withdrawal rather than a surrender by Sony.
@@varthelm personally for myself, as a PC player, i already know the future of where they were trying to attempt with the PC community, and i won't support them now, because i know their plans for the future. they are just the worst example of what PC players have been fighting for over the last decade straight, we should also be fighting other companies who try to force the same shit, such as Ubisoft, EA, RockStar, and i'm sure many more that i have not been scammed by when it comes to this account launcher nonsense.
This should be the breaking point for publishers to start making their dumb launchers and external accounts totally separated from the main game and optional no matter the store/platform. People should remember this event as an example of companies don't giving a crap about us at times.
@@user-lp5wb2rb3v They haven't forget about Sony's countless hack scandals, which is one of the many reasons this exploded. There is still some hope left.
Literally nothing has changed. Ghost of tsushima launches in one month on PC and Sony is requiring a PlayStation account if you want to play the online multiplayer mode. So they are basically locking you out of half of the game unless you cave in and create a Playstation network account
@@kenshinhimura9387 If nothing changes then Sony won't be able to catch lightning twice. We should still protest another useless pc launcher when the time comes.
The obvious step is for Sony to address PSN coverage. Why isn't it available in the majority of the world? They're leaving serious cash on the table if they want to really expand into the PC space.
Some coutries have strict laws about user data and how it is stored/used. Like the Baltics. So for Sony it didn't make sense to put PSN there if they couldn't use the data to make money. Also China would probably demand that user data stay within Chinas Firewall.
Sony should allow people to remain anonymous when playing games, but they still want to scan your face like communist china does. i still don't trust Sony. i'm a PC player and i'm still not going to purchase shit from them, because i saw their plans for the future, no thanks.
@@GreenSkinGentleman it runs well, have to compromise with frame rate but aside from that it is good. In fact i play it 100% steam deck only and not pc (dpad is so good for ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ compared to keyboard)
i didn't do it for helldivers alone, but i will admit the helldivers situation helped surface the level corruption of the PSN network, things i didn't know were suddenly known and i no longer trust Sony because of it. for myself i'm simply out, i will never purchase a game from Sony on PC now that i know their plans, they can die as a company for all i care, i already know their plans for the future. "You Will Own Nothing And Continue To Be Very Unhappy". this is the future they want for you. because they believe in serfdom. for myself i choose not to be a willing slave.
Great video on this topic. It's also great to see PC gamers uniting to educate Sony that this isn't the same closed platform as on a Playstation console.
Honestly, props to Spitz. We can all have bad takes, it takes some humility (and sometimes a shitstorm) to admit that you didn't have all the info. Understanding the issue and acting accordingly is all we can really ask.
Bro told us on at least 3 different occasions to review bomb the game. He almost got fired for it. He may have his unhinged douchebag moments here and there but he has shown integrity when it mattered, that is much more important and i can't say the same thing for some of the others. *cough* Baskinator *cough*
Not gonna happen lol. They also had the requirement for HD2, it’s just that Sony allowed AH to turn it off due to server issues. They are going to make sure GoT is air tight.
All this mess could have been easly avoided by gifting some random skin and weapons to the players that connect the account and keep it optional. They would still have their increase in Playstation network active users to show to their shareholders. What a stupid move from them. Good luck regaining the pc gamers trust after this.
They would've also had to increase their PSN access coverage to the 177 countries (that's almost half of the world by land mass) that otherwise couldn't play.
kusoni: you must create a psn account to play a pc game you already bought me: okay, shouldn't be that hard kusoni: *you must buy a playstation to create a psn account in japan* kusoni slowly pulling a apple around the world. and i heard japan is not the only country suffering from this fate
Especially when it comes to gaming. Gamers are all about the incentives and will go to stupid lengths to get that one little extra bonus. They did NOT go the path of least resistance with this one. I've linked accounts just for convenience of not having to remember another set of logins.
Most certainly! The publisher is the one who lists the game for sale on Steam. For some reason they liked the thought of getting more sales when they realised they had a smash hit (melting Arrowheads servers). So of course they would sell it to non-PSN markets.😉 When they pushed the notice on Friday last week mandating PSN with no clarification on what would happen to non-PSN capable players, the community started to cook.🔥 In response to the reviews and refund-requests Valve had to do Sony's homework and jank the game from non-PSN markets, and started issuing refunds to avoid getting caught up in the shitstorm describing the planned "rug-pull".
Major Order completed. I highly doubt that Sony learned anything though. They will keep pulling shit like this until it gets through, just like they always do.
It's things like these that make me reinforce my vow of "AAA never again (with very rare exceptions)" every now and then. Whenever I'm slipping up on that I get reminded on how putrid the whole "AAA industry" is at its core.
Yeah, the last AAA game I bought was Doom Eternal and games like that are the exception. Before that it was Doom 2016 lol. I'm looking forward to the future of AA and indies, because those markets still produce games that I love.
I, in the other hand, do mind extra logins. As it makes more cumbersome to manage, as you have to share more information with publishers, as with single player games demanding online verification and subsequently stop working when the verification servers are offline or cease to exist.
New Sony CEO was the reason PlayStation games got ported to PC. So logically you would need to wait for a new Nintendo CEO to take over for old ideas like console exclusivity to be let go off. Covid and Chip shortage also helped.
It does work, if we realise that as consumers we are actually the ones who hold power. If we won't put up with their nonsense, they have no choice but to change because at the end of the day they are the ones who have to convince us to trade our money for their goods and services.
Thank you for such an unbiased and clear explanation of what was going on. I only heard bits and pieces other pieces and it’s really easy now a days to jump on the bandwagon against a company for their behavior.
Meanwhile here: kusoni: you must create a psn account to play a pc game you already bought me: okay, shouldn't be that hard kusoni: *you must buy a playstation to create a psn account in japan*
I left SONY entirely back in 2019/2020 during the Anthem debacle. Sony refused to refund my money for a game that was broken from the start. I was a lifetime Sony guy from 12 I had a PS1 all the way to PS4. I gave them thousands upon thousands of dollars over the years, and left a $2000 library behind when I switched to steam. BEST Gaming decision I ever made! I will never go back to that company.
The list of countries that doesn't support PSN had India up there, I can assure you that I created my PSN account in 2018, and it works just fine, must be an outdated list.
There is no crossave or progression, only crossplay and crossplay didn't need a PSN account for the last 2 months ... this was literally just about them being able to BAN players more easily. Which they call making the game more SAFE, because people get harassed and cheaters and blah. Yeah nah you just want more power and control. ...the game has a block and mute button, nothing else is needed. Cheaters... that is what your Ring-0 anti cheat is for, ain't it?
I haven't even played helldivers and I have both steam and psn account, that being said I am very happy you guys fought this corporate move, it will strengthen consumer rights in the long run, small steps but this is definitely a massive win for players.
Legal probably told them the geolocking stuff was grounds for a lawsuit. In wake off the Discovery and Funimation content removals, and rising concerns over consumers' digital rights, this was really bad optics. Didn't help that some of the community managers were saying pretty boneheaded things too. Sony's also locked in another controversy over Stellar Blade. Which is actually a similar issue at its core, in that customers were told the game wouldn't be censored, when it in fact was. Again, it was pushed out in a post-launch patch after reviews had already gone up.
A few minor mistakes in your reporting. Arrowhead disabled the PSN linking initially because of server demands. Also, the PSN linking window at first launch provided a "skip" button without have any indication that it is temporary and will be required in the future. The CEO of Arrowhead admitted that this was an oversight on him. And one bit that I didn't catch (maybe I missed it) was that the CEO of Arrorhead also admitted that Sony had Arrowhead force PSN linking 6 months before release, so Arrowhead knew that PSN was going to be forced, and yet Sony still sold the game in countries that can not have PSN accounts. It's not just that Sony sold it, but it's that willfully sold it knowing full well those customers can't play it. One other thing that came out, some countries (Ukraine specifically, but maybe others) do not give you the ability to make a PSN account on anything other than the PS4 or PS5. So, for the players in Ukraine were told that in order to keep playing HD2 they would need to buy a PS4/5 to create a PSN account. Otherwise, good run down. Kudos.
Account linking will still come to Ghost of Tsushima later this month ("because of the Legends multiplayer mode" - go figure...). That said, I guess this will be the new norm for Sony games on PC - as all older games did not require account linking so far. So sadly, only a small "win" for the PC gaming community.
Yep and I bet tons of people will buy the game then cry about it on the steam forums afterwards. If PC Gamers really wanted to stick it to Sony they should boycott ghosts of tsushima and when it releases on PC it sells zero copies until they've removed this PSN account requirement completely and promise US that it will never come back to any of their future games and also promise us that they will not try to create a PlayStation launcher and force us to use it on PC
oooh i've only read the headlines that it wasn't needed for singleplayer, yeah of course if you turn that on its head it measn it is needed for multiplayer, way to gaslight potential customers into thinking it is not needed when it absolutely is. ooof... well, maybe they will re-think that all now.
Spitz was a gentleman. He understood the problem and right away corrected himself. There were other CM that was a total douchebag about it and was cheering because they would be able to ban people that they considered toxic in game.
You are worse than the Automatons... when we beat them they at least gave us the illusion of having won for 24 hours before their massive counter attack started. Can you pessimists give us 24 hours at least ...god damn it lol
I am actually so happy this all transpired the way it did. thanks to all of this we can now play with fellow helldivers from all over the world. many fellow players could have been locked out of playing this masterpiece from the start if it wasnt for sonys mistake
When I buy games on Steam if they have 3rd party launchers I dont buy them game from them anymore, if I want the game I buy it directly from the launcher. I generally dont buy from AAA studios anymore though unless the games are on sale for dirt cheap, I tend to get the games a few years after release with dlc already released.
Note, Sony waving the white flag has not been announced on Steam (last I checked at 11AM EDT today, May 6) and the "requires PSN Link" tag is still on the steam store page.
@@randybobandy9828 Well if the plan is to force users to use PSN accounts in the future they 100% wont be selling the game in the excluded countries so this issue doesn't happen again. Best to be cautious and keep an eye out, if the countries don't get added anytime soon then psn will come back.
My psn account is locked cant get a new password reset link and everytime I call to connect with psn helpline it says Im on a list of 3000 or more people thats just nuts I sold my ps4 pro awhile ago due to this and was going to buy the game then saw this.
The only reason Sony changed their mind is seeing the direct dollar value of all the gamers in countries without PSN access. If I were in charge of Sony right now there would be a blitz to expand PSN access worldwide.
This here is part of why so many users cherish Steam specifically -- it's a platform where your opinion can be seen, right there on the page where the game is sold.
"and it's quite standard on games from virtually every AAA publisher at this point..." That's true, but that is among one of the many various reasons that I don't buy or even really play games from these "AAA" publishers, and haven't for years. I get their games when offered for free on deals, but even then I play them only extremely rarely. Helldivers 2 feels like the sort of game I usually play, a labour of love from a small developer (which as I understand, it is) that we (and they) got suddenly rug pulled by the big corpo publisher, and so I join the others in my annoyance at that. Mostly I feel sorry for the developers and how this incident will hurt them, the publisher harming their success. A story as old as video gaming, unfortunately.
The collaboration between publisher and developer is irrelevant. Requiring a PSN login is not, by itself, bad. A huge chunk of my steam library asks for third-party logins. But those games required the login FROM THE BEGINNING. What makes this so egregious is that a ton of people accepted what they thought were acceptable terms (no PSN login) and then got told later that they either had to link to PSN or lose access to a game they bought. If Sony had stood firm and required PSN account linking from the get-go, this is not an issue. The stupid move was waiving the requirement because they didn't have enough server capacity, thinking that they could reimpose the requirement later.
Even if the PSN link was strictly required from the very beginning, this would still be a significant issue. This meant that the game would have always been legally unplayable to all countries with no PSN access, regardless of whether you were on PC or Playstation. What would be the point of even making the game legally available for purchase in these countries to begin with if users have to lie about their account information, violate TOS, and risk getting banned
The game would not have been as big without those extra 150+ countries being able to access the game. If anything this should get Sony to push PSN out to most of those countries OR drop it.
Sony is still learning valuable lessons about the PC market that Microsoft and Epic Games had to be taught years ago - there's a very good reason PC gamers still don't have to pay a subscription fee to play online.
It's so over for Drake; even the white guys in Zelda tees and cargo shorts know just how bad it is I even saw a Japanese hip hop artist make his own diss against Drake; the international community knows, too
If I ran steam I'd give everyone the option regardless of country the option to refund. It looks like we know the next studio to be randomly shut down/have massive layoffs
Where Sony really got this wrong was changing the rules after the game has been sold on the market, having a mandatory sign in before anyone brought the game, that would have been different, gamers would have been informed before they bought the game, but changing the rules months after the game was released is bad form. I don't have a problem with PSN Network, but it should be optional, that offers perks like save transfer from and too PC and PS5, trying to force a mandatory sign-in was always going to get a backlash, especially when it offers little to no value to gamers. Sony shot themselves in the foot here and created some bad PR on a game that was selling well on PC and PS5. This is also what's great about the PC compared to consoles, it's far easier for gamers to get their voice heard, on consoles, Sony controls everything from top to bottom on its ecosystem, on the PC, it's a far more open platform, especially on Steam where you have reviewed a game, complaint on the forum and so on, basically, if this were to happen on the PS5, it would be much easier for Sony to bury it and force it onto gamers regardless for them not wanting it and Sony needs to understand that the PC audience is different from the PS audience.
Sony: actually you need a psn to play helldivers 2 moving forward Helldiver community: *points gun* you have been reported to the ministry of truth for your treasonous actions
How Sony thought that taking on a community that made hugging cool again could be split apart and beaten. these big companies have been trying to keep us at each others throats that they do not know what to do when we band together.
Can we just stop and give credit to this man for doing his homework before making this❤ disappointed in a few content creators take on the situation because of lack of follow through
What's different about Helldiver's 2 account linking when companies like EA, Ubisoft, and 2K do the same thing even for single player games? I'm not defending Sony, I just don't understand why this outcry never happened for similar games by different devs.
I wish the community would do the same for Ubisoft and EA, I don't buy their games anymore because of their crappy third-party launcher that makes it impossible to play them offline.
I really hope Sony takes a long hard look at the success they had on pc thus far and how much they failed here as an example to continue doing what worked before and to not double down. This has really taken the shine off of their games on pc for me now with this ever present looming feeling that they could at any moment just decide to change every game they already released with sudden launchers and extra drm (like 2K) and of course knowing how often they have been hacked really doesn't make me want to make a psn account and link it with my steam account.
Even though we got the W, still disgusting it took almost 300k negative reviews instead of realizing how countries that can’t play a game their paid for is bad
Important Distinction: Pirate Software used the internet archive to show that Sony changed ‘you do not need to login with a psn account to play’ to ‘some games may require you to login…’ ru-vid.comlC8UFFFarRg?si=LlVGLQWogwT7cUHR 9:56:55 His opinion is that Sony just saw big number and tried to capitalize on it rather than it being planned from the start. Someone also questioned the devs about the account linking six months in advance and the devs said it wasn’t part of the contract, but just something Sony asked them to include as well and they had to work it into the game as opposed to it being there in the first place. This is important as their changing of the terms on which you bought the game allows for class action lawsuits and therefore provided the leverage needed for Sony to change their mind. If it really was there and clearly spelled out from the beginning, it is most people’s opinion that Sony would just tell the players to kick rocks.
The thing that Sony changed was an FAQ on their site. The requirement was there since day one. AH turned it off temporarily because of server issues. The actual terms didn’t change since Steam had the requires 3rd party account before launch.
Actual massive cooperation by the community speaks more than just saying bad things online. Steam's honorable REFUNDS helped this cause the most in my honest opinion. Why? Because money speaks more than us.
I think Sony’s days on Steam are now numbered, and they’ll be looking at fast-tracking a release of their own storefront, particularly now that Valve are actively being proactive with refunding players not happy with shady business practices. However, like with most the other non-Steam storefronts, it’ll probably fail and Sony will come crawling back a few years down the line, particularly with console markets struggling too.
Sony is still requiring you to have a PlayStation account if you want to play Ghost of tsushima multiplayer mode when it releases on PC next month. Sony is not caving in or backing down. They think PC players are stupid and we'll just go along with it because they so desperately want to play Ghost of tsushima
Not just Sony not being used to selling on a non-walled-garden platform, but also it is a game litterly based on Democracy and banding together against greed and corruption like this lol.
Its not necessarily what you do, It's how you do. I can understand Sony wanting to keep more profits from their future releases. They are probably tired of Splitting the earnings with Steam but If Sony wants their own Ecosystem they should create their own Launcher and service. Regardless of how much it annoys ppl. If ppl want your game bad enough they will go through your ecosystem to buy it. But doing it the way they did is wrong. You can't just spring a whole new thing on ppl and expect them to be cool with it.
This isn't over. Do not relent or forget what happened because this is still Sony. Until everyone can dive again nothing has changed. Until its confirmed that countries that were locked out of purchasing the game can again it's not over. All Sony has done is said things on social media. Talk is cheap, action speak louder. My review will stay negative because of the corporate meeting this may.
