No Paulie was hands down luckiest when it comes to that. I always imagine how he could’ve been exposed as the leak to NY and would’ve been killed. But luckily Johnny Sack never revealed him and Carmine also never told Tony “some guy who says he’s from Jersey, Paulie Gutiere introduced himself to me at a wedding. Said Johnny told me about him..know anything about that”
I especially love their meeting at John's when there was all that snow on the ground. Everything about that winter/wet atmosphere was right on. Especially when it showed Tony running through the snow and then having to walk through the little creek and then walkinginh down the sidewalk in those wet fucking feet.
Tony still considers Johnny a dear friend, but didn't turn his back on Johnny when they were done and waited for him to drive away. DEAR friends indeed!
Ironic because when it all ended he had his back turned to the members only man in the bathroom. Just goes to show you can never slip up in that life. One turn of the back and.....
I think he got into acting late in life so he wasn't as experienced as Jim but he did a great job and was there from the start. "This is our anniversary, not yours mine and Johnny effin Sack's!"
@@RiggidyDiggidyRaw Steven van Zandt (Silvio) wasn't even an actor before the Sopranos, he did very well. and John Sacrimoni is basically John Gotti with a few added decibels.
@@petervanna6602 But the part of Johnny Sack had much less screen time than Tony's part. Tony's character was pretty plain to see he was an aggressive angry guy who had moods swings and was basically crazy. Remember the parts when Johnny Sack had cancer in prison that was a hard transformation for his character. Both were great!
The Tony-Johnny Sack scenes are some of my favorites in the series. Johnny Sack is Tony's mirror, and there is genuine affection between the two of them, even though they both have so many layers of tension and intrigue between them. And Vincent Curatola's performance is just amazing, perhaps the only actor on the show equal to James Gandolfini and Edie Falco. Watch how his eyes soften when Tony says "I still consider you a dear, dear friend" at 2:26. It's subtle but it's very powerful.
David Chase originally planned for Tony to get whacked by Johnny Sack. Although I'm not sure whether that was still the case at this point of the show.
Notice how Tony kept his eye on Johnny untill he drove away. Tony's the boss, but he still retains his soldato instincts. Love the little character details on this show
PAY ATTENTION!! Tony does that after EVERY MEETING DURING THIS SHOW’S RUN!! He was a smart guy fr!! He knew all too well that those kinds of meetings were where 80% of assassinations take place in that life.
tony reyes I think you just wanted to crowbar in the word "soldato" no matter what rank of mobster, they all got the staring daggers face, just because Tony is boss he needs to smile through everything?
Chase often wove Shakespeare into the dialogue. When Junior tells Tony is S1 that he's "waiting like patience on a monument" he's pulling from Twelfth Night.
John knew in this world, you only move up or out. Tony never understood that. He never understood that the minute Sack showed up in Jersey, the war was on.
@paul Anthony I am sorry you have no real understanding of what this scene and last look John gives Tony is about. It's ok, I'll paint a picture for you: A nice Finger painting which guys like you respond too. In short, Sack kept the peace. The minute he was gone, Tony-NJ was finished. In this scene Sack is offering Tony a chance to help run it all, both sides of the river. Sack thought that highly of Tony's skills. Sack also knew that would be the only way Tony survived. No one respected Jersey,. Forget Phil, you think an old timer like Carmine Sr. respected a boss who saw a shrink? Yeah there was a "stigmata"-a huge one. That's why he embarrassed Tony by bringing it up in full view at that party. Tony defeats Phil with the help of all people, a federal agent....but who fingers him and his family on that fateful night in the pizzeria? Phil is already dead. a truce had supposedly been agreed too. New York, like a boa was tightening its grip and this scene represented Tony 's only way out, but he did not have the vision or balls to embrace it. For all his bluster, we was simply a jersey guy till the end. Play it out: if Tony moves with Sack on Carmine Sr, now T is under boss of the whole thing. He takes out Phil, his crew and Carmine Jr , and he' and Sack are sitting pretty until Sack gets pinched by the feds, which Sack knew was impending. In short, Tony could have easily ended up capo de tutti capo. That was his potential. At least until the feds pinched him also , which have been preferable to getting wacked in the back of gloomy diner, in front of his family, left to relive his death over and over for eternity.
The scene is amazing on many levels. Johns truly hurt and probably a little scared. He’s unsure if tony has or could sell him out to Carmine which would get him whacked immediately. Tony is hoping that saying “you do what you gotta do” will get him out but knows by johns reaction that if Carmine goes John will hold this against him. Which he ultimately did.
@@lt.lasereyez8891 there is always that question if John would have sold him out and blamed everything on Tony. My read was no. ……..unless….it became necessary. Which it may have if something went wrong …..Tony wisely figured this out too. He also knew Carmine was old and wouldn’t be around much longer anyway and John was poised to take over. So why the rush? Greed and payback. That made John an unreliable partner in this big of a hit.
@@lt.lasereyez8891 true. And whether or not John would give Tony up immediately he would always have that over his head that he could give him up if he chose to and would have likely been in defecto control over Jersey even more so than Carmine was.
Where has it gone? Wokeness took over tv and movies, that’s where. Enjoy mediocre bullshit for the rest of your life. It will never be as good as it was again.
I don't know if I'm reading into this too much, but I really like it how this was the second to last scene of the fourth season (I consider the boat thing at the end to be an epilogue). They're giving the audience a clue that Johnny Sac's rise to power is going to be a large element of the next season. Tony's refusal to go along with Johnny Sac on the hit on Carmine is also a parallel to Tony leaving Carmela. Then, at the end of the fifth season, we get the same three scenes, only in reverse. Tony tells Johnny Sac he looks forward to continuing to work with him (only for the FBI to arrest John immediately afterward), we get Tony returning home in a way that lets the viewer know that he and Carmela are truly reconciled, and in between, Tony talks to his lawyer and gets good news instead of the lawyer, Alan Sapinsly, refusing to give Tony his deposit back like at the end of Whitecaps. I think that, in the same way season six was divided into two halves that compliment each other, seasons four and five are really two halves of one epoch in the Sopranos canon.
Man that look they gave each other at the end. One of the most unsettling sequences of the entire series. Damn they were so fucking ace in those roles. Like they were born for it.
Translated exactly means " John your offending me with these words please stop because I will lose the respect I have for you, you should know me better then that"
@BentHenny Carmine had started taxing Tony for every business Tony had going, even ones Carmine had nothing to do with it. Tony had compromised earlier, but Carmine wouldn't do the same. He was asking for 25% of Tony's esplanade project, which was Tony and Johnny's biggest and only real money maker at the time. Even Johnny thought 25% was too much. When Tony refused, Carmine shut the project down, costing everyone millions a day. Carmine had other money coming in, but no else did.
The characters of Richie aprile and johnny sack are said to be the closest representation of real life mobsters by those who know them in the real world.
Johnny Sack was at least somewhat friendly at times and you could see it when he switched gears -- you wouldn't want to be on his bad side. Richie on the other hand would kill you without a second thought if it meant he gained something (or he'd just do it for fun, friend or foe).
Tony Cirico was actually half a wise guy tho, he's literally Paulie Walnuts Edit- If we're just speaking in general terms I think Donnie Brasco and A Bronx Tale are great representations
"Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow Creeps in this petty pace from day to day To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death." Macbeth, Act 5 Scene 5
@@cameronjansz88 Time is inexorable, and what seems to us like the dull, ordinary passing of one day to the next is really our lives slipping away, time slipping away, bringing us all heedlessly closer to the grave. That's why Johnny (mis)quotes it: carrying on as usual, waiting for Carmine Sr. to die, is time lost forever.
@@cameronjansz88 it also echoes 'all that's past is prologue' Many of his lines about time play with the idea of now, and the past being tied to the future thru the lens of now. Incredibly, in a large sense this has been borne out thru quantum mechanics and the arrow of time.
Thing is, Tony would be taking all of the risk here. And a boss gets whacked? That's going to possibly make major news, FBI is going to get involved, other families will speculate, etc.
@Ali La Pointe only if it could be done without ties to the Soprano crew. Johnny was using Tony. If Johnny kills his own boss, he'd probably be hit by one of the other families. If he lets Tony do it and denies all involvement, he takes over peacefully. Once Carmine made peace with Tony, he had no reason to take out Carmine and he knew that the hit would come back at him heavy. He wasn't willing to risk going to war for John. That is why he didnt take sides when Johnny and Little Carmine went to war. Let the conflict and casualties stay in house and the other families will do business with the winner. Johnny just had more muscle and influence in NY since little carmine spent most of his time in Florida.
Neither man could have it come back. Tony has the black guys killed so there never any mention of them even being asked to kill Carmine even though it's called off, he thinks that's what Johnny is planning or will come to feel he has to do to him and Chris. How much does John trust Chris, a known junkie with relapse tendencies who should still be waiting in the car? Tony has a rat, been telling John family business that got the beef with Carmine started in first place, maybe this same rat might be wanting to be the new boss of N.J. Tony kills Carmine, kills the hitmen, the rat backed by John kills Tony and Chris and only John is left knowing the truth and his only link to Carmines death 6 feet under. He knew John good enough to know John would never be able to rest as long as Tony but especially unstable chris could implicate him or have it over him. Tony wisely backed out.
@@joshschaeffer3300 it doesn't matter if black guys do it, a boss being murdered at all is enough reason for his followers and the other families to suspect something. they'd have to make him fully disappear to keep the uncertainty live and well, that's how tony's crew got away with whacking fat dom.
The look at the end is like your brother gave you when the two of you we're little kids " I know you ate my cookies and when I get a chance I will get my revenge"
In real life the NJ boss would be equal compared to a NY capo. When NY said frog, NJ jumped. NJ boss John Riggi was like an errand boy for John Gotti. The NJ factions of each of the Gambino, Genovese and Lucchese families are bigger than the entire NJ family.
You definitely spoke facts. Although I think different of Simone ‘Sam the plumber’ DeCavalcante. He was definitely a boss. He was also the liaison between the Bonannos and the commission, during the years the Bonannos were shelved. He also controlled a huge chunk of the porn in NYC along with the Gambinos. Unfortunately NJ is always going to be in NY’s shadow along with many other smaller families around the country.
I dunno what Johnny sac expected, carmine settled the beef with Tony so any justifiable cause for taking out carmine evaporated. It would've been a major shit storm to pop carmine right after making peace and getting back to work.
Even with those isssues, you don't kill a boss for shit like that. So there was never a legitimate reason for Tony. Thats why Chrissy recruited those two black guys the comment sections are always talking about. You dont just kill a boss. Specially from another family. Phil attacked Benny to find out where Blundetto was and looked for Chrissy. Nobody ever threatened Tony's life or well being. That's why everyone was hesitant , when Phil and Tony went at each other dicks swinging. Instability and blood... means business goes down and the cops are snooping around. John wanted Tony to do it, so he could blame it on him if the truth came out. Maybe using the beef as a motivation. Sack was a piece of shit like everyone else.
@@michaeldiekmann6494 you're exactly right. Even Phil wouldnt initially kill Tony " but kill a boss that I wont do and telling Butchie and the others it was wrong when it had been done in the past. It took alot and was no small matter when Phil gave the ok on it. Considering you have to take out more than just the boss, one bodyguard minimum and at least a couple guys who will go to war with or without solid proof of who was behind killing there boss. All boss hits have involved many other murders or full blown wars.
What I like about Johnny is that you know he's angry and irate, yet his body language doesn't betray it. He gets loud and his face contorts... That's about it. But just think of all the times that Tony rages and his body language, and then think about John.
I know I'm just repeating what a thousand other people her are saying, but the acting is just 11/10. The implicit threat of violence in Tony's facial expression while he says _"I still consider you a dear, dear friend"_ is incredible.
Luis he’s goading Tony in regards to the remarks that Ralphie made about his wife Ginny. He’s basically saying that Tony was compliant in hearing Jokes about Ginny (which Tony denies) yet felt uncomfortable hearing disparaging remarks about Carmine Jr. He’s calling him a hypocrite which of course Tony is.
Exactly. The new York families don't even respect Jersey. Better believe Johnny Sack would use the beef about the zoning as motive and blame it all on Tony. Tony was right if Johnny wanted to do it he should've just done it on his own.
tony and johnny were an awesome team of bosses, although they disagreed on a lot of topics, they were great at the height of their success. they got along well, and looked great onscreen....i loved to see them argue, and at the end, they got over it!!! the dynamic between NY/NJ was awesome as displayed by these two.
That scene had 2 conversations, the one with the audible dialogue then the silent one that followed, with John looking up at Tony through his car windscreen.
I swear after this scene Tony and Johnnys relationship was never the same. Did they still get along and have good business together ? Of course. Although I feel like after this the trust wasn’t fully there anymore and their relationship slowly but surely deteriorated. I always get chills when Johnny just stares at Tony as he drives off, like he knew it wouldn’t be the same ever. 🤙🏻
I agree 100 percent. Tony and Johnny could still be civil to each other when they had to be, but Johnny himself said he could never fully trust Tony for backing out on helping him dispose of Carmine. Next season it gets worse when Tony Blundetto comes onto the scene and takes down Joey Peeps and Billy Leotardo. Tony lied for his cousin, lied to Johnny's face that Tony B had nothing to do with Peeps' death. John clearly never bought it and it furthered deepened the rift between the two bosses. Tony B is whacked by Tony not so much out of retaliation but to prevent big brother Phil Leotardo from giving Tony B a long, torturous death. I believe Johnny felt Tony was out of line preventing Phil from getting his pound of flesh from Tony B directly. Johnny ended up passing away in prison before he could see just how much of a monster Tony had become by the end of the series. I have a feeling THAT Tony would have had no problem knocking off Carmine Sr. without any kind of hesitation. Tony had become so overbearing, irrational and unreasonable at that point.
Johnny was a very smart man he could found a way that have Carmine killed on his own but he just want to use Tony to do his Dirty Work that's all it was
You can tell the difference in the two familes (New York vs. New Jersey) by the cars and the clothes. Johnny Sack drives up in a Mercedes and nice clothes. Tony drives up in a several-year-old Suburban and a much more casual outfit. The DiMeos/Sopranos are the Wal-Mart version of the Mafia.
Johnnie started to despise Carmine Sr., but what really got under Johnnies skin was the thought of having to take order from Little Carmine. It gave Johnnie a sense of urgency to get rid of Carmine Sr and make sure to push out Carmine Jr. If he got along better with Carmine Jr and respected him, Johnnie wouldn’t have had as much urgency being Boss. Being Boss for Johnnie was more of a reactive thing of pushing out Carmine Jr. then his overriding desire to be boss. Had Rusty been willing to take the helm after Carmine Sr Johnnie would have been content to stay the underboss..
