I recently visited several bourbon distilleries and most mentioned sour mashing but none of them actually explained the various techniques for doing it. Thanks George.
I just can't say THANK YOU enough George ! Not sure I would have gotten into distilling without you Sir. I had the desire, and actually most of the knowledge, but I lacked a mentor to keep me from making BAD moonshine. Happy Distilling and Thanks Again !
No matter how many other people distill on ytube you are my absolute first choice for good information. Im hoping you and yours are well. Thank you for your good work .
Been loving getting back in to your videos, George :-) Very happy to hear the comparisons to sourdough as well, that's been a life-long passion for me. One bit of advice I'd offer to anyone doing sourdough, sour mash or any of the like is learn how to make what I like to call 'doomsday vaults' for your starter. Take my sourdough, I've got a frozen portion at home as well as the active one in the fridge, a frozen portion in Mum's freezer and I feed that when I'm down (I got my love of sourdough from her). Plus I've learned how to freeze-dry started at home and had nothing but success, I've been assured that the same method works just as well using barm or backset from sour mash as well.
Thanks George, another sweet tip, I'll try that ferment on the grain one, I find it easier to remove the alcohol wash from the grain... than to remove the liquid and then ferment it. Love your tips for beginners, it makes hitting the bulls eye (or there abouts)a lot easier.
Hero! Glad I found your channel. It's interesting, entertaining and there is so much to learn. Sad it's been quiet for a while but at some point everything is said, I guess. Thank you for your service!
Thanks, George! Always putting out info for my thick skull to (try to) absorb. I’d be willing to argue there actually is a species more complicated and harder to understand that women... yeast!
Great information, I like the spent grain method. It doesn't take long for them to start it's (lactic) fermentation but if it smells like catfish chum that's what it should only be used for.
Another video filled with awesome information George I've been using my lees over and over I find I get a much better fermentation that way then starting fresh each time and now I know why thanks for taking the time to help us all do it better.
Chuck - when you reuse your lees on your next ferment, do you let them sour before you add them? How long and do you have it airlocked when you do? Can you share a little about your process? TIA.
@@highergroundfarm7527 I use them right away if I can't then I recover my yeast and store it in a mason jar in the refrigerator until I need it again letting them sour is a rum thing which I plan to do when they start harvesting the sugar cane and I can get a drum of sugar cane juice really cheap I will post on how it works out.
Taking stillage/backset and putting that into the next ferment is also an industry standard for sour mash. That's second generation though. Since stillage/backset is typically low pH already, because the ferment it came from had been infected with lactobacillus. This also saves on water and helps keep flavour profiles similar between batches. They may use between 33% and 40% stillage when doing this. Another method is to mash as normal, then drop the temp to around 40C, and intentionally add lactobacillus starter to the mash, to cause the souring.
What temperature do you ferment at that you would drop it to 40C (104F)? I am curious if I can add some lactobacillius from a probiotic to my mash days prior to pitching yeast to obtain a sour mash. My experience is only in beer and wine, so until I started messing with kviek, I would always ferment around 20-24C (68-75F). With kviek, I'm fermenting at 27-34C(80-94F).
I would take the sour dough starter and 'dissolve' in water to get the yeast going in all the water. Then add all the other ingredients to the water then add 2/3 of the flour and mix. Then add 1/4 cup of flour at a time until the dough is mildly sticky. (you may not add all the flour called for, the dough presentation is what is important). I couldn't help myself, I've been baking for a month and I am an expert ;).
i screwed up in the right direction...for once. i'm on my 3rd. gen sour mash. i knew about saving yeast and my used corn, from George's videos and using back set from Still It. (ujssm) i just put it all together. i love this hobby and it's not the kill, it's the hunt that makes this fun.... well somewhat the kill....lol
Right on, thanks for another great video George! So if I'm hearing you right, using all three methods would be basically a UJSSM, correct? It takes a portion of the grain, all the trub/barm and a volume of the backset. Or can a UJSSM be called a sour mash since it isn't all grain?
..hello to a fellow from "the great forum". Same question dawned on me to use all three. It never occured that was the methods to that recipe. Ive never made it, but have an itch now. Still on brotha
For our sour mash we would take 25% of the backset and put it in the fermenter with the new batch instead of saving it and adding it directly to the still later. It lowers the PH and yeast love it. In fact we would take it from the still when the temp was still around 155F (after they were turned off and cooled a bit) and put it directly in the fermenter to keep the temp in there above the 143F to allow the amylase to have further time to convert before pitching DADY. Not sure if this could be a #4 type sour mash for George.
Awesome technique. I just answered your email. May ad this to a future video. I particularly like the idea of using the hot mash as a means to increase the temperature of the new mash for conversion. Brilliant. George
@@ericbest9562 I have never tried that, but you would want to make sure the alcohol is mostly distilled out which it should be besides your tails, which you can let your still run and just collect the tails in a jar and dump them. This will allow it to freeze more easily and it won't hurt the yeast at all.
I reuse all the corn...add sugar, 30% stillage and the rest local spring water...and bread yeast. ...I have never let it SIT to get sour in the sun etc..but I would like to try that
I've never done a sour mash but I want to try one. If you don't mind I have a couple questions. Let me know if I have this correct: at least 25% of the sour mash was made from mash from a previous run? Like if it was an 100 gallon batch of sour mash 25 gallons would be from the last batch?? Also, how many generations can you do sour mash? Will it get nasty after several generations? Thank you
How long will the spent sour grains keep in the bucket before they're used for the next mash? Can they be kept longer than 3-4 days? And when are you adding them? During the mash or just before pitching your yeast?
Hi George, Thank you for this video, really enjoyed this one. Please can you advise if method 3 (stillage leftovers) can be used on a sugar wash from gin? Note, both from the stripping run and the vapor infused gin run?? Good video and thank you for your support.
I have a question for you George. If I decide to use the backset as a sour mash how long would you recommend storing that for and what would be a proper way to store it? Thank you.
Where in the CFR 27 does it state that sour mash needs to be at least 25% of stillage? It is a ph adjustment to about 4.5 to 5 and is usually 2 parts (combination or method 1 and 3 you mention). Put some fermenting liquid from past batch into next and during cooking add some stillage to the water to cook. I sometimes also use method 2 to transfer yeast.
How does column vs straight to condenser pot still equate. Would column still be like running 2 strips in a pot still or are they the same cause they your not running the cold water jacket? Jw if the column with packing strips more flavor than kettle to condenser pot still. I want cleaner flavors. Not vodka.
Great info! Question; when using what’s left in the still, do you put the material in the mash container to ferment with the new grain or keep aside to add in the still when the your mash is ready (separately)?
Hey George I have one of those dibosh 20l/5gal still runs good but the lid is floppy .the new reflux column w/sight glass also dibosh sways in the wind . I'm afraid it will tip over. Question: what can I do to strengthen my lid . 8:34
Question. Can i mash in new grains on the left over mash right after the run? The left over liquid is still hot enough to steep the grain and then will cool down to the 155 degrees for the amylase enzyme to be added. Or does it have to sit for a few days in order to rerun it? Is it also ok to use more than the 25% of the left over after a run?
Thanks. As usual very useful information. I have always wondered how these things were done before commercial yeasts were available. You mention long chain fatty acids. Do these become esters? They are too high boiling to distill over, unless a small amount gets carried over with the water / ethanol. I am starting to understand more and more that getting high purity alcohol is simple science and is the easy part. Getting something that tastes good that is the artistry.
I was under the impression that barm was the yeast that floated to the top of an ale. Either way, that is why eastern and central Europe have more sourdough breads than western Europe. It is much harder to extract yeast for baking from lager than from ale.
Thank you for your videos! The science behind all this fascinates me. Quick question using the 3rd method from this video; do you just continue to use 25% over and over, from one batch to the next, or is it make one batch, then one batch of sour, then start fresh? Thanks again!
Hey George been following the videos and have learned so much but im still not understanding how the old timers could use corn,malted corn,and sugar only no yeast in the wash. How is this possible without pitching yeast? Please do a video on the old time recipes if you havent already thank you so much!
Love your videos. Helped me a lot and did my first run of shine yesterday.thanks. Please can you tell me the name and artist of the song in the beginning.
#4 (pulled from my brewers hat) you can just add in off the shelf souring bugs to the ferment, yogurt, bleu cheese, buttermilk, or a shot of lacto from you LHBS :) . Let the yeast start and take hold, after a day or 2 of active fermentation introduce the bugs.
Hey George I haven't spoken to u in a while I haven't had many questions but I'm wanting to build me a copper pot and was wandering what u thought was the best thickness for building your own still
The concern I have with adding three pounds of the last batch to the new batch is how to convert the new grain bill so that you don't have to much solids in your 6 gallon fermenter, it seems it would reduce the amount of liquid you would have to put into the still because you don't have as much room to add water. I imagine you would only have about 3 gallons of liquid to run with all the new grain and then three pounds of the last mash?
So is it bad to let my mash clear before distilling? I have only been using clarified (looks crystal clear almost) mash that I treat the same as if I were making beer or wine except I don't filter it.
A bit of confusion on method 3. Is the stillage added to the fermenter or the still? Your diagram shows still, but that doesn't seem like it would have time to do much.
I have only used backset for 25% of the next ferment water, with good results. Maybe George puts it in with the next still run, and perhaps I should try that. Agree, unclear in this video..
Thank you both, that was my question, I figured it would be the fermentation, as the most it could do in the still would be to add some different notes to it.
@@BarleyandHopsBrewing George, you are correct that the frequency does not change however the duty cycle is what varies. You can vary the amount of time your device is on and off. You can have the on time longer with a shorter off time, or you can have a shorter on time with a longer off time.
czyzu12 my last one I kept about 4 months plus. This one I’m distilling tomorrow will be 8 months since I put the wash on. It Tastes beautiful right now. Can’t wait till it goes through the still!
@@andrewspike8257 is that the grain method, he said 4 days in the video, but i might need to let it sit for a few weeks before i can get around to making another mash out of it? where as the 3rd method having been boiled, I can stick into a sterilised fermentor/bucket and let it sit until i'm ready to use it (I assume).
I need an answer to this question if anyone can help, has anybody tried to do a Sourmash with a fruit bill??? I put 8lbs of cranberries, 20lbs of raisins with two bushels of apples. It fermented for a week and it smells delicious. I strained most of the solids out and put it in two 5 gallon buckets & covered it. It smells fine and I'm going to try and run it with new fruit & sugar to all of the old fruit tomorrow, Is this a good idea?
George aren’t you just allowing the grain/s to ferment? Making lactic acid? If that’s the case an inoculate can be added which could speed up the process.... thoughts? I have a habit of stopping the vid and texting out a comment or question.... sorry please forgive. Explaining things can be frustrating huh? :-)
Hey George , have you ever heard the theory that the methyl , being an azeotrope , either never distills out or does so at the Tails , rather than at the foreshots ?
Methanol is not an azeotrope. Ethanol and water are. But the methanol comes out during the entire run but is more concentrated in the tails because it is miscible in water and more water comes out later in the run.
