The Southern Baptist Convention has refused to welcome Saddleback Church back into its fold, rejecting an appeal by the Orange County megachurch over its February ouster for having women pastors. MORE: abc7.com/saddl...
Yep! "1 Timothy 2:12 is the twelfth verse of the second chapter of the First Epistle to Timothy. It is often quoted using the King James Version translation: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
@@phillipware9681 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮I’ll betcha the woman whose birth canal U popped out of was not silent during that fortuitous (only for u) event …. dude 🦅I hear the voice of a know-it-all-curmudgeon(Scrooge)🦅
@@phillipware9681Another reason to reject the Bible. It's just blatant oppression of women by men who want to continue to be worshipped for being mediocre
@@karentraynor306 I know the context. I also know you lie with context. There IS no context excuse for you supporting slavery though. And before you lie again, no, it is NOT servitude. It is Chattel Slavery. You also think the earth is flat, and that Unicorns, giants and men with magic hair are real. You think it is ok to drown millions of men, women, children, infants and fetuses because your god is too stooooopid to create things the way he wants them created, so he has had two do overs and is working on his third, and STILL can't get it right. You believe in intelligent design, where your god designed a delicate brain that floats in a hard shell WITH SPIKES INSIDE THAT SHELL. You think it is ok to kill people just because they love differently. You think it is ok to kill everyone who is a different tribe from you, and to take the young girls and force them into marriage. In other words, you are completely and utterly nonsensical. And we get to ignore any orders you or your make believe god give.
@@TheFK8LifeWhat? This is about women wanting, for some reason , to be part of a church that hates them and wants them to be servants and walking incubators
I am a Protestant, though not a Baptist, and I agree that women should not be pastors, yet I believe women should be just as good at teaching Bible studies or Sabbath or Sunday School classes to any age group.
@@ElusivG Because the Bible says so. Basically the universal thing that relates to everyone today is that a woman is not permitted to be given spiritual authority over men. Some think 1 or 2 sermons a year is okay, as long as she doesn't have the office of "pastor". Some think that wven one message a year is putting her in "spiritual authority" over men, so it's not auper cut and dry. What is absolutely certain is that a woman cannot biblically be called "pastor" nor "elder".
Guy dies and meets St Peter at the Golden Gate. St Peter says "Let me give you a tour". They walk by one church and bunches of people counting bags of rice and beans ... guy asks "Who are they?" ... St Peter says "Those are the Mormons.". ... they keep walking and come upon a church where all the people inside are either playing basketball, bingo, or dancing ... guy asks "Who are they?" ... St Peter says "Those are the Catholics." ... they keep walking and come upon a church where everyone inside is arguing and calling each other names ... guy asks "Who are th---" ... St Peter cuts him off abruptly and whispers "Shhhhh ... those are the Baptists, they think they're the only ones here!"
@@lindacampbell1808 Laughter is the best medicine! I grew up as a Lutheran and I think there are jokes about Lutherans and bringing Jello salads and desserts to potlucks.😆
It's about a life long identity and community being revoked out of spite. It's about the slap of conditional love . This is how taste of what religious LGBTQ felt when we were expelled from our own churches, families and communities. It's just another shade of psychological abuse.
@@thomashton6525 Well, not allowing women into positions of authority, for one. It took them a long time to come around on integration, for another. And of course they don't exactly have a good reputation when it comes to LGBT congregants. I'm curious, in what ways do you believe the SBC are _not_ bigoted?
Where does the Bible say women can't be pastors? I want to see those exact words in the proof scriptures. Otherwise, it's your interpretation of possibly out-of-context scripture being taught as Biblical truth. The proof scriptures (often used to support the claim that women can't preach or be pastors) in their proper context are talking about husband and wife, not church leadership.
actually the world granted the title "Christian" as it saw how followers of The Way were like Jesus Christ in the actions and lives. God grants the title "children of God"
What else happened in your Live-Action fantasy role playing game? You know Religion and Comicon are basically the same thing right? "Only male elves can be a black mage"
His aversion to religion, in the sense usually attached to the term, was of the same kind with that of Lucretius: he regarded it with the feelings due not to a mere mental delusion, but to a great moral evil. He looked upon it as the greatest enemy of morality: first, by setting up factitious excellencies - belief in creeds, devotional feelings, and ceremonies, not connected with the good of human kind - and causing these to be accepted as substitutes for genuine virtue: but above all, by radically vitiating the standard of morals; making it consist in doing the will of a being, on whom it lavishes indeed all the phrases of adulation, but whom in sober truth it depicts as eminently hateful
There is a scripture about a narrow rd and a few people and a wide rd and that wide rd has room for everyone Rick Warren has to think a little harder before he decides to change the bible
What does the Holy Bible say? God gave Men Spiritual Authority over their household and in the church. Women are called to minister to others, share the gospel, and demonstrate the fruits of the Spirit through the leading of the Holy Spirit but are never to hold Spiritual Authority over men or to pastor men. We as Women are important and have been given a different ministarial focus that is in agreement with God's plan and gifts.
Women pastors was the technicality. Rick Warren has brought several problems not the least of which was trying to "run the entire Baptist Denomination".
Maybe Rick Warren is a true Christian who is trying to solve some problems inherent in the Baptist Church. I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church. It is hateful, bigoted, misogynistic, xenophobic, antisemitic, Islamophobic, and I could go on. At least the church I attended was that way. And the minister? He was all those things IN SPADES and he expected his congregation to be, too. I'm sure there are many wonderful people in this world who happen to be Southern Baptists. I just haven't met any of them. The ones I've met don't qualify as "Christian" in my book.
@@treepizzle southern Baptist church moved pedophiles around the church the way the Catholic Church did. Reports say they did it for over 10 years and paid people off and continued to do it. How’s that working for you?
Denominations are a problem altogether. Man gets involved and things go sideways. Jesus did not come to start a religion or a denomination, He had ONE message, He taught His message to His Apostles and then after He was crucified and appeared to His Apostles in the upper room and told them even more, the BIG thing He told them then was that He was going to send the Comforter to them and they would be indwelt with that Spirit and then they were to go to the ends of the earth with the message Jesus taught them and because he was going to send the Holy Spirit to them, they would then be able to do miracles as well and have the protection of the Holy Spirit for as long as it would take to spread the message. Satan is planning on causing the whole world to vote for ONE religion, ONE leader, and ONE way to survive. As usual Satan always does his imitation of God to deceive people. There will be only ONE religion and ONE leader very soon and it will be headed up by THE Antichrist and THE FALSE Prophet. All this denomination stuff is the reason that Christianity has been mocked and attacked. If it had stayed just being THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE things would be very different in this world.
Good people do good things. Bad people do bad things. But in order for good people to do bad things, it takes RELIGION. That has been proven thousands of times in the last 2000 years.
That's a nice fictional story, but the only people that are pushing a one world religion are Christians. Christians would love to take rights away from anyone that isn't a white Christian strait male. Christians don't get persecuted here in America they do the persecuting.
Don't be deceived. Back in the days of Jesus women were treated like property like animals. What would Jesus say today? You are the children of God man and woman. God loves women just as much as he do men. Jesus love for mary maglen was more than his disciples. They were jealous of her. She stood by Jesus's side to the very end. What did the disciples do? One was for 60 paces of silver 1 who denied that he knew him and they all went into hiding for fear of their lives. I think that Jesus would say If a woman has a calling from God to preach the gospel let her talk.
@@timogul In 1st Timothy 2:12, Paul said, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet” (c.f. 1 Cor. 14:33-35).
@@ArmonAdibi That was Paul, not Jesus. Paul said a lot of nonsense, and should best be ignored by anyone who claims to follow Christ's teachings. Christ had no problem with women in His ministry.
Agree with YOUR church??! Since when does a person who started a church become the 'owner' of the church? In reality: WE NEED TO GET RID OF DENOMINATIONS and just stick to Christ Jesus' doctrine.
@@TheRoyalBavarian What a weird question... I am a Christ Follower:). I do not listen to other's doctrines, including my own first impressions. I often ask the Holy Spirit what the Father would have me do...and Jesus' doctrine is pretty self explanatory for those with ears to hear.
I agree. He doesn’t care about women being pastors. He wants power and control and he’s willing to tear his family apart in order to achieve that power.
So this is all about staying relevant. Maybe they should have thought harder about the possible repercussions of their actions before straying away from their own doctrine
Yes, and ALL BELIEVERS, are of the house of Jacob and ARE considered of the LINEAGE of YESHUA HAMASCHIA, (Roman's 2:28-29), the ONE, the world calls Jesus, as Roman's 9:6 even says, not emplies, that, "ALL," JEWS of israel are not of israel."
Man was created first. The husband rules the wife. Men head the Church. Women, if mature and capable of thinking God's thoughts after Him, transcend, spiritually, gender patterns, e.g., the emotional mindset of the 'nesting' mother. In glory there is neither male nor female,; like Jesus told the Saducees; not now- then (see it? It's to come...)
and that matters to anyone, why? Being a Southern Baptist is not the calling of a person -- the question is, are you an obedient servant of Jesus Christ who, though without sin, took on the punishment of your sin so you could take his relationship as son of God?
No ,you do what the Bible says. Don’t get caught up with what man says that’s how cults get started. You need a church leader to convince you of the truth. That thinking is the way of man not God.
While a handful of states have raised their marriage age to 16 or 18, many states have archaic laws on the books that have the legal marriage age set to 10, 12, or no age specified at all. DEMOCRATS in these states that are legislating to raise the legal marriage age in those states to 16 or 18 - and it is the REPUBLICAN party that is arguing against or outright blocking the laws mandating higher ages for marriages. ALL EASILY GOOGLED. REPUBLICANS are the party of child marriage. Republicans are Groomers. ps - Republicans are also the party of forcing your loved one to carry their rapist's baby. Republicans in Iowa have legislated that rape victims can no longer receive emergency contraception. Post-rape emergency contraception does not end a pregnancy that's begun, it stops a pregnancy from starting. Republicans are forcing your loved one to carry their rapist's baby. pps - "He likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side,” Trump said about Jeffrey Epstein. NEVER reward a Republican with your vote.
Pedos. Sickening how you cover for southern Baptist church. Your children should be taken away. They knew about pedophiles in your church for over 10 years and covered it up. Sending known predators to other churches to molest and rape your children. And now you support them in their attempt to continue their molesting in private.
Why does Rick Warren insist on being back in the Southern Baptist Convention? His Church seems to be doing quite well, without being in the Southern Baptist Convention? Maybe Warren should just focus on Saddleback's mission and quit trying to change the long standing views of the Southern Baptist Convention Member Churches and Men leading the Church, based on Paul's Teachings in the New Testament. There are other Church Denominations that have a Husband and Wife Leadership Team, with no conflicts in this view of Leadership! I get Warren's passion, but he's known this View/Doctrine for as long as he's been an Ordained Minister!
Because he believes that if he sinks the SBC through bad publicity he will be the de facto leader of Baptist churches. It's all about power and control. That has long been the accusation of churches - unfortunately it is too often true. It distracts people from the truth that is the Bible. It's like the old adage - 'I like that God guy, but I can't seem to get past the Christians.'
@@LittleBunnyKungFoo I used to visit there several years ago with my son & daughter-in-law with their children. I heard him preach two or three sermons that were not Biblical as gospel. That is a big operation. During the Covid years, he shut the operation down because he said to!! He was trying to please the Democratic Governor, instead of doing God's work. Thankfully my Family started attending a Calvary Church meeting in a warehouse during the covid thing and just love the Church & the fellowship there!!
GOD'S WORD NEVER CHANGES! The world (where SIN is king) changes constantly. Therefore, the church is referred to as GOD'S ROCK. Rocks don't budge. Sand moves. But the church was built on GOD'S ROCK. Built on SOLID TRUTH.
Not once did I hear Rick Warren mention anything about what God says on the matter…1 Timothy 2:12-14 (NKJV) 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. God…the same yesterday, today & forever…enough said!
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The church is full of gossips, slanderers, hypocrits, murderers, adulterers, and blasphemers - the difference between it and the world is that we admit our sin and need of Jesus to save us from the wrath of God. A good Christian is like Paul who says he is the Chief of sinners, or the poor sinner praying who beats his chest saying how he is unworthy that Jesus says was more righteous than the Pharisee.
@@StarrREVAOkay, so, it sounds like the teachings aren't true, then. If the gospels are so great, why wouldn't we have perfected society by now? Yall have had 2000 years, maybe give it up. Maybe try a new religion, if the teachings of this one makes so many liars and hypocrites?
@@Dumbstuffwatcher Whats amazing to me is the tens of thousands of different Christian denominations. And what’s up with all the gospels that never made it into the Bible? I’ve read some of those. There’s a reason they’re not in the Bible. It just doesn’t sound like a very stable religion. I was raised in the church, and while there are plenty of good people in there, I found there were more than enough nasty people in there as well. Fun fact : If you are a Missouri Synod Lutheran, you can’t pray with any other Lutherans, if they’re not Missouri Synod. That’s some pretty goofy stuff. Unfortunately for Christianity these days, they are represented by some of the worst humanity has to offer.
Why doesn't the Saddleback Church just start another Baptist denomination? I wouldn't be the first time that a Christian denomination split over a matter of doctrine.
He doesnt agree, he can stay out. They have their view and he has his. He is trying to force them to his view 😂 Please leave Darren - nobody wants you there.
@@TerminalFailSafe Jesus kicked out the people who used church to make money 💰 Even Jesus had drawn a line in the sand - read the Bible and grab a clue
It's pastor agrees with Chrislom which is Christians and Muslims have the same God, and beliefs. Not biblical or true. Women can be teachers not pastors. THAT is also biblical.
Mary Magdalene was the first person to witness Jesus's resurrection, and until she went and told the others she was the entire church, she knew the truth, she was the first preacher, the first pastor. Why???? Because he valued her, that's why.
The Bible may, indeed does, contain a warrant for trafficking in humans, for ethnic cleansing, for slavery, for bride-price, and for indiscriminate massacre, but we are not bound by any of it because it was put together by crude, uncultured human mammals.
Leading & preaching aren’t the same thing. God calls for everyone to preach the good news aka the Gospel. Women aren’t allowed to lead over men, Mary had zero authority over any man, Jesus didn’t value her ahead of any of those men (neither did he value the men above her). Jesus gave her the message because she was the first one to His tomb when He had arisen so she would be the first one to witness that He had actually risen from the grace and was alive. Now If we went by your logic then she wasn’t even the the most valued disciple because the Gospels weren’t even written by her, neither was she considered part of Jesus’ inner circle. (But that’s not even the point I’m trying to get across)
lol kinda funny considering thats where the guy who wrote the purpose driven life was from. and everyone went ape over it. i think the southern baptist should get with the times and just allow women pastors . but whatever lol.
" i think the southern baptist should get with the times and just allow women pastors " so do a lot of brainwashed people that are no longer capable of recognizing the difference between women and men
Wow! I’m an ex-SBC pastor, church planter, and missionary. This is indeed a sad day for the SBC and I believe it will signal the end of the denomination. My position as a missionary of the North American Mission Board was eliminated under the smokescreen of restructuring due to funding shortfalls, an outright lie. The real reason was that I had embraced the doctrinal foundations of the SBC founders and this was viewed as a serious aberration for denominational leaders in Florida. I no longer attend ANY evangelical church.
Presbyterians seem a little more inclusive and accepting. Our church had a female pastor for a time. She was wonderful, but moved on. Now we have a fantastic black man serving. Come and see us, and stay Christlike!
As a former Southern Baptist I have to say if they cared as much about preachers sexually assaulting people as they do little petty things like who gets to read out of a book, I might start respecting them again until then I will proudly remain an AGNOSTIC DEIST AND UNIVERSALIST with a clear conscience
Interesting, what does an agnostic deist and universalist believe? I'm so sorry you ended up in a church with a pastor like that. The hirelings do abound lately🙄😕
@@deltadaze6836well I could only speak for myself because I don't know what the official definitions are and my phone is glitching so I will have to break it up into multiple messages
@@deltadaze6836To me, agnostic means I have no evidence for my beliefs they cannot be proven or disproven and neither can any other religion so I don't think it's anybody's place to force their beliefs on others or present those beliefs as fact
@@deltadaze6836A deist more or less believes that a Creator made the universe but mostly stays out of human affairs, which means no parting of the Seas or anything like that
@@deltadaze6836to me universalism means that as long as someone is a kind and faithful follower of their religion and they will achieve their equivalent of Salvation in the next life... in other words a sincere Hindu would get into Paradise but a fake Christian would not
@@Preservestlandry It is an association. It provides literature, funds missions through cooperative funding, helps support colleges, universities and seminaries the same way. Each independent church has a voice as important and equal to any other. To be part of the Southern Baptist Convention is a choice a church decides upon, and nothing prevents that church from going its own way.
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1 Timothy 2 We either stand on the word or we don’t. Sorry ladies
The fact Rick Warren is fighting, demanding the SBC to agree with his differences which are against their own denominational standards, is proof enough to me that Rick Warren has another agenda. Why not just leave them gracefully? If you as a Pastor disagree with just men being in this leadership role, and you KNOW what the SBC historically has never allowed this more liberal approach, then my gosh, with a church that big, that rich as Saddleback Church, leave. You do not need the SBC.
@@SabbatarianCalvinist too bad Jesus is dead and you listen to a flawed human telling you what he (def not she!) Wants you to think like. Stay asleep, Muppet.
1 Timothy 2:12: I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man If women have a problem with this, they can take it up with Jesus when their being judged.
The "we believe" is accidentally admitting that it's their interpretation. We need to look at what the Bible says, not what someone believes it says. Otherwise, personal opinion will become Church doctrine.
If that's God's word then why did the spokesmen say "we believe" indicating that it's their interpretation of God's word? It seems like a contradiction to say this is what the Bible says according to what we believe. Either the Bible says it or doesn't. Either you have a Biblical foundation or you don't. The "we believe" at the end of the argument against women pastors weakens his credibility and makes it sound more like a personal opinion than a Biblical fact. Not to mention the fact that he never gave any scripture references. He's the one saying the Bible forbids women pastors. So he's the one who needs to provide scripture for it. The fact that he didn't weakens his argument. On the other hand, if Southern Baptists don't believe in women pastors, Rick Warren should leave and agree to disagree. It's not a salvation issue. It doesn't deny the essentials of Christianity. It's a difference of beliefs.
Do you feel that way about other denominations you disagree with also? I lean toward Assemblies of God in my beliefs. Does that mean I don't take God seriously either?
You follow the teachings of the Gospel... Or you don't. If you don't, you're not part of the Church as God designed it. It's that simple. It doesn't matter whether you agree with it, or or not. That decision is not up to you. The gospel (The Word of God) says no... that's all you need to know. It's not the Gospel According to you. It's the Gospel according to God...
@@eb9720Would have to disagree with that. The Old Testament Pointed to Jesus it was not just Jewish tradition doing whatever they felt like. Throughout the Old Testament are signs pointing to the Future Messiah that would save His people from their Sins. Jesus fulfilled All that while on earth then he appointed his disciples to spread his message to every creature and that's what is documented in the rest of the New Testament. All Scripture is God Breathed, All Scripture forms together for one Purpose... To Point people to Jesus and reconcile them to God through him. All Old & New Testament books are just as important as the Four Gospels.
The Apostle Paul said... "1 Timothy 2:12 is the twelfth verse of the second chapter of the First Epistle to Timothy. It is often quoted using the King James Version translation: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Women could teach other women and perhaps children but not the man?
what did Jesus Christ say about women? Study Paul's relationship with Phoebe, Chloe and Rufus's mother, you will start questioning why in the first place he said women should be silent. The women were the first to spread the good news that Christ has risen. this must be a lesson enough. We are Christians, not Paulians
Does that also mean that Melissa Dougherty is sinning by using RU-vid to teach the Gospel? I'm sure she has men in her RU-vid audience. I mean if women can't preach, then women can't be Christian RU-vidrs either because that's technically preaching.
@eb9720 Since Jesus DID NOT write a single word and EVERYTHING you know about him was written by a guy. The earliest was Mark and that was 60+ years after the fact! Like it or not you're following what someone wrote about him. So in essence your statement is VOID!
Give this some thought: Southern Baptists forbid women to be pastors, those who deliver the message of Christ, and simultaneously believe that Donald Trump is the new messiah. If you can figure that out, you're a genius.
No one ever though Trump was the "new messiah". We thought he was better than Hiliary and he turned out to be a pretty good president. As K9starr asked, do you know the meaning of "messiah"? And there is only one, Jesus Christ, and there will never be another real messiah. There will be a false one and that will happen probably soon.
Sorry, but that’s not doctrine - it’s scriptural. Here’s what 1st Timothy 2:12 says: 12 “But I suffer (allow) NOT a WOMAN to TEACH, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence”. Also, 2nd Timothy 2:2 says, “And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faIthful MEN, who shall be able to teach others also.” There were also no FEMALE apostles - all 12 were MEN and JESUS instructed THEM to teach others.
Technically, I would have to disagree with you. For example, other fun bible verses: Leviticus 11- 9 "`Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales--whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water--you are to detest. 11 And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you. Eating shellfish is suppose to be worse then allowing women in the church as this DIRECTLY says "Detest"! As a result, saying Christians can't eat shellfish would be scriptural. What you are saying is, in fact, doctrine - "a belief or set of beliefs". We have to "interrupt" what the text means far more critically then Leviticus which says Christians can't eat shellfish. I can see everything you provided as not banning anything. I am sorry to say, but apply critical thinking to the text you provided. Picking what to enforce instead of providing love is why people challenge the Church now. Banning women does not show the love of God. It shows a false prophet. Remember, the bible is a cannon. Humans picks what to put in it. Remember, they sat down in a room and thought about it. Always remember that. Never forget. I would love to read the bible with God's word. Unfortunately, I am stuck with human made version. You are too.
@@ArchmageMarlock So why even comment on this if you DON’T believe in the Bible? And why should it concern you whether a woman can preach in the church or not if you DON’T believe in the Bible? And as a Christian the Levitical law does not apply! The word Christian means follower of Christ and Jesus wasn’t born until over 1500 years after the Levitical law was written. Christians are saved by the blood of Christ and are no longer under the mosaic law.
@@leondouglas4887 "And why should it concern you whether a woman can preach in the church or not if you don't believe in the Bible?" I'm the son of a preacher and a lawyer in my state. I have more than just your standard take on things. Also, I've read people's various takes. Moreover, I was privileged to witness a female pastor for the first time two months ago. Shocked me!! I didn't know it could happen. Started conversations around the dinner table. I thought the church was changing for the better and embracing love. Turns out people would rather run. Right? That is what this is, remember?
@@leondouglas4887 Final comment" And as a Christian the Levitical law does not apply! The word Christian means follower of Christ and Jesus wasn’t born until over 1500 years after the Levitical law was written. Christians are saved by the blood of Christ and are no longer under the mosaic law." O gee. Umm. Forest for the trees in the expression I want to use here. So. I can assume you are entirely correct other above as it will have no logical interface with my points. Lol. Let me break it down. If a woman can be president, then women can read a book and peach. If your religion says otherwise and still preaches "love," that is concerning. One human to another. Do you not see the inhumanity of this? If the Bible says to commit inhumanity, I do not question God for a second! I question the pastor and the words on the printed page. After all, the Bible and many religious texts do come in "versions". Are you following the right one?
@@ArchmageMarlock Sorry but you’re arguing a useless point. The law was a shadow leading to Christ! Jesus said I did not come to do away with the law I came to fulfill it! I’ve used several scriptural points that are VERY CLEAR - I haven’t seen any in yours! The Bible clearly says that EVE was thoroughly deceived by Satan. And since she was perfect, she had no excuse for disobeying GOD! By the way, who is the woman president!
I think that Saddleback is trying too hard to blend in with the broader culture. I love Saddleback, and wish them the best, but just because the world pressures you to adopt its values, doesn’t mean you should. I understand it is a hard thing to balance winning souls for the Lord with strict adherence to biblical teachings, but, as Christians, we should be in the world, not of the world. The Bible should be our guide, not DEI culture.
That is a harsh criticism of Saddleback. Perhaps when they read the scripture they weigh what Paul actually did with what he said. Perhaps they are paying closer attention to the scriptures than you are. It can be discussed without calling fellow Christians worldly
@@christinebridges4212 I am not basing my criticism solely on this issue. I again say this out of love. Saddleback needs to be very cautious about how great the world thinks it is. Their pandemic response fit perfectly into California’s response. Whenever a church aligns with California politicians, you should question whether you are also aligning with the Bible.
By advocating for women pastors, warren shows us that he clearly doesn't rely on scripture . To say it's acceptable for women to preach, is to preach a false gospel. When I see and hear him, I see and hear a wolf in sheeps' clothing.
Some of the comments here are bothering. The Bible is not a bunch of stories of men writing whatever they wanted. All Scripture is God Breathed and all of the writers throughout history were carried along by the Holy Spirit as they wrote. So Men wrote the Bible physically but the Bible is God's Words. Women are not being oppressed by not being pastors, God chose things the way he chose them and His ways are Perfect. I been a Christian for two years now and I see that Scripture says that a New Convert must not be a Pastor/Elder either. Should I feel oppressed about that if I were to want to be a Pastor myself? Of course not! If people don't like certain Churches and Church leaders then that's fine but but if Churches and their leaders are in allignment with the Bible and and you don't like it then just be Honest... It's not the men you disagree with, It's God.
That's always been the case with religion, now it's the case with social issues like gender politics, people say get out and vote but what they really mean is they want you to vote for their guy... all of these people on the internet saying " educate yourself and do your research" really what they mean is "listen to me because I know better than you"
It's a cult based on fairytales to control people and by reading all these different comments on the different threads shows how many are brainwashed to believing its true,it's crazy that it seems that all of the so called religious people would rather see only old white men being in charge of everything and everyone else in a family is considered property
This is a dilema. In the Bible, no woman can pastor over man, nor teach over man. Yet, there are many of both. What is the answer? The Bible is never out of date. Our culture has changed and is in continuous flux. God is not. He is the same God, The Creator. The Bible, Is our instruction book, on how to live, and praise the Father, primarily. No one is to alter, add or remove anything fron His Book. The answer is in the Bible. However, women may pastor or teach other women.
