Sovereign Class : When the Borg Anger Daddy 

I'll just use this video to gripe about fleet command. Too complicated. I mean I'm still nowhere near completing Timelines, but FC was a whole other level of frustration for me. To make matters worse, last time I reinstalled the game, all my ships were gone. I didn't have many or anything truly remarkable, but when I came back, not even the initial basic ship given was AWOL. Fuck that.

I like Fleet Command, on paper. But with my real life commitments , I am basically hobbled to what can otherwise be an excellent game.

@@Saint_nobody I liked it to the extent I am able to play but I know it’s not for everyone

Played it for 2 years gave it a good go but it keeps adding more and more junk and hasn't fixed any of the big bugs that where around since launch. They need to stop adding stuff each month and focus on the actually PVP side of the game that is tipped to the whales who are spending thousands each month just to bully everyone else

@@adammiller4445 - That's not a bug. It's a feature.

Starfleet....is a promise. A promise that we've gotten so GD good at killing sh!t, that we've went from'A flying hotel's to The E, which is pretty much METAL GEAR: REX in space. We PROMISE, If you play stupid games with us, you WILL win a stupid prize!

Under normal circumstances Starfleet is dedicated to the expansion of knowledge. In times of crisis and war however, they very much take after their ancestors, the U.S. Navy. The Borg fucked around and then the Sovereign class was created and they found out real quick.

Rocks area fundamental part of starfleet design.

Made of Explodium

@@Namelesswhirl Nono that's the oberth's hull.

Well done sir

I knew there was a reason for rocks coming flying back out of the consoles during combat

Woulda been? Scotty was probably still alive when the big -E launched.

In fact now I am fan theorizing that Starfleet even consulted him, bringing in every competent engineer they can find to quickly design a ship so revolutionarily different from the TNG Nebula/Galaxy class ships. Even Prometheus still had the TNG-era look.

In the books he worked on the thing so you better believe he was impressed.

I think he would have hated some things about it like the bioneural gel. Especially after his comment about the the Excelsior " The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop it up."

I think that in a way she is the spiritual successor of the constitution. Consider in the day of kirk, starfleet was more militaristic and the constitution was the most powerful starfleet ship in the day. The galaxy class represented aspiration during a golden age but also proved to be vulnerable. True dominion war upgrades would make them a force to be reckoned with but you couldn't see someone doing to the sovereign what the jemhadar did to the uss odyssey. Scimitar an exception since it was built as a Predator.

Yup, the Connie was designated a battlecruiser by the klinks, which is pretty much the highest respect they could pay her (ST:III "Sir! Federation Battlecruiser approaching!")

Cardassians would use this argument to point out from their perspective, the Federation only always flew around giant murder machines with a couple labs jammed in the middle of them so they can "claim" to be on "scientific missions". What kind of scientific mission requires the need for a way to kill at least 50 billlion people on on the surface on a planet? I mean, if I were Cardassian, I'd say that.

@@cerebrix If I were the Federation, my reply would be "Has the Obsidian Order not gotten you copies of our high-profile mission logs? Our ships keep running into hostile Space Gods and ancient Doomsday Weapons. Just be glad we're taking care of those for everyone."

@@dajonaneisnoah8714 it does lead one to wonder logically: are the missions of the few main ships shown in the various series a result of them being extraordinarily “lucky” or are there just so many new lifeforms of a higher order they keep running into, that Star fleet needs to keep a huge database to keep track of them all?

@@strictnonconformist7369 in TOS I always assumed it was because they were the tip of the exploration spear. True deep space exploration, and when you know less about where you are you meet a lot more....newness. TNG in the earlier days was broadly similar, but there seems to be a marked turn inward from the Federation and Starfleet towards the end of TNG. Probably due to the Borg showing them just how dangerous it gets that far out; and better to prepare the rear for any coming threat from the frontline. DS9...well they're on a mission to go no bloody place. Voyager...I genuinely do not like Voy so while I have watched some of it, I've missed lots. But my takeaway again is that what lies beyond known space tends to be big, mean, and unfriendly in the extreme. So combine all of that with the fact that the universe as a whole is incomprehensibly huge, and old and well you will run across all sorts of very big unfriendly things, and if you're the one going to new places you're more likely to be the ones to meet them. At least that's my take on it.

The Galaxy class, IIRC, had different sized holodecks. Hence, a small one could serve a single user but a group would need a larger one as there are limits to what the the technology can do to fool occupants.

@@qdllc I figured holodecks would be for more tactical uses, simulating official stuff, etc. HoloSuites for recreation & more personal nature. Also HoloSuites would be smaller. That way if you needed minimal power usage in an emergency situation you could still have a smaller suite operate for tactical simulations, etc without endangering the whole ship from too much power consumption.

I also have issue with people thinking “suite” = larger. We see several times on DS9 that they are quite small…which makes sense for Quark’s bar. It’s also a scale issue. If you examine the promenade, it’s 1/4 to 1/3 the ring of the station (match the window type). There is no way the station is near the volume of a Galaxy class ship, but they frequently portray the station as having more volume inside than is possible. I doubt there’s anyplace on DS9 that could devote the volume needed for one of the larger holodecks available on a Galaxy class ship.

But do the Enterprise E's Holosuites come with a piping hot woman with Quark's head?

Also Lilly and Picard were clearly in the Stardrive, already in Borg territory. The holodecks are likely in the saucer section.

Aye, like 2 Klingon sisters with a TOS era bird of prey going up against a Galaxy class from TNG era, it kind of shows you how weaken Golden age Trek's Federation became

Precisely

No way would they be able to pull that against an Akira or sovereign from ds9 era

Absolutely, but I still maintain that the E-D died to a manufacturing flaw in the Enterprise specifically, not because the Galaxy was weak.

I'm going to go with it was week, think about how fast the u.s.s. venture went down when it went up against a truly dedicated military power. Whether it was over confidence, arrogance or complete equipment failure the lesson was learned. Starfleet and their flagship class was totally outclassed

As cool as Sovereign is, Galaxy can't be matched

Interesting back screen information. The designer of the Galaxy Class had planned the ship to look like panther paw leaping to attack. With the Warp Nacelles being shorter on the Back. To reflect the miniaturization of technology between The Motion Picture and The Next Generation. But Gene Roddenberry walked up and added that little extension on the back. Because he was to used to seeing the Large impressive looking Warp Necelles on Federation Starships. So in a way the Galaxy Class was his last Starship revision before he got to old and sick to be hands on with anything Star Trek..

True. Blame the writers and VFX people. The poor Defiant gets argued over for hours. As much as I love this stuff, it's still fiction

I would think Enterprise E was fit out as a warship it was definitely refitted as a warship between 1st contact & Nemesis. Remember Picard's line "does anyone remember when we were explorers." A hint that they had become a military fleet. At least that's my take on it.

The writers forgot that Galaxy-class starships are supposed to separate from their saucer section before going into heavy combat. The saucer was dead weight and was only needed on long voyages because it had most of the ship's science labs and living space. The fighting half of the _Enterprise,_ or any other ship in her class, was the engineering section. Without the saucer, the _Enterprise_ was a speedy fighting machine that could overpower just about anything.

...I imagine a tipsy computer trying to make advances to Jean-Luc. "Mondieu Jean-Luc! So energetic this morning. Should i raise the room temperature so you may feel more ...relaxed?" ...a frightening thought! 😂😂

No. Scotty can confirm that sythahol just isn't a proper drink. Maybe if you smuggled on something that was "Green".

This comment right here deserves a pin to the top LOL :D

Voyager could have done another "The Naked Time" sequel, would have been hilarious Talk about missed potential

It was Drunk as Hell fighting The Simatar every shot mist when the cloak was showing at least a bit lol.

bridge commander was far better trek than anything currently available.

Non cannon background. That explains my comment i should have read more comments before i posted one of my own lol.

This is the best Starfleet tactical analysis I have ever seen.

That actually makes a lot of sense for the shift we see.

That was amazing man, the best explanation of Starfleet Military Doctrine post W359

The Borg clearly demonstrated they were the biggest force to be reckoned with, and made it clear they weren’t going to stop being a threat. Never mind the other known non-Borg neighbors in the galaxy they already knew about. And if nothing else has been made clear throughout history, fictional or not, past or not, however powerful you think you are, there’s always someone more powerful than you waiting to hand you your head. The more you explore, the higher the chances are you violate someone’s wishes to the degree you need to either be able to fight them, or outrun them, so no speed is fast enough to not be justifiable in exploration.

When you can replicate most things, use matter/anti matter reactions to generate power, resources fade rapidly into irrelevance. The only finite resource is the time it takes to replicate, time it takes to move pieces and assemble them.

@@lokisgodhi Also the crew, both on the ships themselves and in the shipyards. There's a reason Starfleet tries to automate both their ships and shipyards. Replicators are a wonderful piece of technology but they can't (yet) replicate officers.

I see the intrepid as being between generations. It has design cues from the "galaxy project" most notably the galaxy class escape pods.

I believe the Sabre was actually first.

The Defiant was the stop gap. They put all of their ready to go technology into something that could bring the fight, be rapidly constructed, and easily replaced. A swarm style attack ship. The others had specific roles to fill such as the Akira being a carrier and torpedo boat, then comes the Sovereign with as the centerpiece Battlecruiser. The Prometheus came after as the next evolution. The Intrepid is Starfleet continuing to push the edge of technology through the 2360s, integrating systems and design ideas that would counter the Borg, while also being the first to address subspace damage, pushing the bounds of warp drive technology and exploration.

Couldn't have said it better myself... Nice!

"The Sovereign class doesn't portray Roddenberry's original vision" Correction "The Sovereign class doesn't *betray* Roddenberry's original vision" Also, agreed. 1) Roddenberry was a Navy man. His perspective is going to be from the that of a military. Not a warmonger, as "peaceniks" will say any acknowledgement of or overture toward military preparedness and doctrinal readiness to action will exclaim. 2) The Constitution was built during a time of heightened tensions between the Federation and Klingon Empire... and the Romulans. It was built to combat more so than most vessels of the time. The Sovereign likewise, but against the BORG, who could show up at nearly anytime because they can, and potentially or actually hostile nations like the Dominion, who might spring up from nearly any rock in the cosmos. 3) With ships like the Sovereign Class, Starfleet and the Federation was finally at least reaching around behind to remove that "kick me" sign so many other races and governments, like the Dominion, took as permission to assail an overtly unprepared and weak target. This does not mean the Federation is becoming more warlike. More that they are sick a tired of being periodically shoved into a corner ready toe be "raped and murdered" by some bad guy who shows up out of the shadows.

It's the old maxim you see in martial arts: you prepare to fight while hoping you never have to. Pacifism is often mistaken for "passivism" - I. E. That pacifism means avoiding fighting at all costs, even to the point of laying down & dying to prevent conflict. Pacifism is simply a preference for peace & a desire to uphold it - & sometimes that will require fighting to defend your lives & beliefs. The Federation in the TNG era seemed to lose some of that, likely due to peace with the Klingons & non-hostilities with the Romulans making them think they didn't have to maintain that vigilance any more. That arrogance was exemplified in "Q Who," where Q showed them just how unprepared they were for the dangers out in the galaxy. Far from the Sovereign & Defiant betraying Roddenberry's vision, I'd say that TNG itself portrayed a decay in humanity's vigilance as seen in TOS. It wasn't a case of choosing between being explorers and being warriors - it's that humanity would be capable of both at the same time. While obviously imperfect as an organisation in the 2260s, it also showed a Federation that wouldn't have been brought almost to its knees by self-inflicted complacency. Maxwell wasn't right, but he wasn't wrong either.

Roddenberry was a lefty so it isn't a surprise the world he created was a fairy tail Utopia. No money, 'we work to better ourselves', etc. etc. It wasn't realistic when Roddenberry created everything, isn't today and won't be in 250 years.

@@DocWolph Actually Roddenberry was Air Force. Then police. But yes. And the Constitution....I mean she launched in 2245 so technically that was before tensions with the Klingons and the renewal of hostilities with the Romulans. But Starfleet was well aware that they needed to be ready to defend themselves in deep space, away from the Federation.

There was once an episode, when all the power was flaking out, technology useless. Riker asked if they could scrounge up some rocks and sticks incase the other ship moved in. I've Heard ret-cons of TOS that said The Connies were primarily analog systems to thwart take over. Having simpler redundant systems like the isolinear chips makes sense because it's what we would do, what we've always done. Sometimes the backup is built-in to the design, sometimes it's added systems and equipment, but we always have some sort of backup.

In the grim darkness of the far future...

Isn't the point of writing fiction for it to be a betrayal of reality in some sense while maintaining enough reality that the reader can connect with it? I'm not saying that an all-peace all the time Federation would have been more entertaining than what was made, what I am saying though is that it is possible for canon Star Trek to be both a betrayal to Roddenberry's vision as well as a more realistic depiction of human civilization.

@@cappyricks942 Sure. But there’s a limit to the suspension of disbelief. And there is a baseline psychological appeal in all humans. On the most basic level, we all want to see the same things. If the Romulans launched a sneak attack on a Federation outpost and brutally murdered the entire population, we both expect to see certain things and desire to see certain things. If the Federation response consisted of forming an action committee and penning a strongly worded letter to the Romulans, we would be… disappointed. If the Federation wrote this letter in the language of the Tholians in order to avoid offending the Romulans with their earth language, we would scratch our heads. And if these tactics actually WORKED, the Romulans went home with a meek apology and everyone sang kumbaya together, no one would watch. Roddenberry’s “vision” for Star Trek was that Star Fleet is a “peacekeeping and humanitarian armada” meant to further the ideals of the Federation. This cannot be done without the capacity for war. Thus, the Sovereign class-it is either a continuation of this vision (protecting the Federation and furthering its values) or it betrays this vision because Roddenberry was staunchly against war of any kind… and thus Roddenberry’s vision makes no sense in a logical universe and who wants to watch that?

I always saw it as The Federation had a long peace bought by the Kirks of the original star trek, which led to a technological advancement so far above the various empires of the alpha quadrant that Federation Science and Exploration vessels could match dedicated Warships and best them, which led to a implicit arrogance in Starfleet/The Federation that they didn't need warships until Wolf 359 bitchslapped them out of it. Which would also explain why Diplomacy tended to work so well, as the new species etc saw Starfleets exploration ships and realized just what Starfleet could do if pushed, meaning they could follow through on their agreements. If you pay attention to Gene Roddenberry's backstory of Star Trek, well, all that co-operation between humans happened after the loss of most of humanity. It's basically a post-apocalyptic future, they are near post-scarcity because they don't have much of a population left, some of those major colonies Kirk etc visited don't qualify as major cities irl.

I'm with you 100% here.

Same!!!

I have your 1 and 2 flipped, Sovereign is the best Star Trek ship design to me but refit Constitution is my #2

@@BC08 A very respectful ranking. I can't complain about such good taste.

I like it. Head Cannon SOLD!

Never know if ya an extra deck for whales. ;)

Another possible explanation is that certain deck numbers are skipped, like how the 13th floor is skipped in US buildings.

Grunt: "Sir, an enemy vessel is approaching." Kruge: "...yesss, a Federation Battle Cruiser." (From Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, as the Enterprise-01 approached the Genesis planet)

I agree to a point… that point being Discovery _shiver_

yeah, was too idealistic, utopian imho

Picard and Discovery I haven’t watched yet. I Intend to watch them just haven’t gotten around to it yet. I hope I can at least enjoy them. I remember Enterprise being a little of a tough watch at times as well.

@@brandonbowden1262 Picard is okay, the reused some assets from Disco (which makes no sense cause 23c), have some weird pacing at times and some of the characters are... unnecessary at best. Also there is one really disappointing CGI battle. But it's a good overall Story and the TNG actors do a stellar job. DIscovery is a very forced mess, in a universe that fits nowhere in Canon and Science is more a label to look cool in that show than something they follow. Examples: They travel through subspace with a magic mushroom drive and their ship has the elevator space of the Kelvin ships. It's a mess. Anson Mount as Pike was decent there and they plan to run a series on him so we'll see. All of that said Discovery is clearly not prime timeline, so it really does not destroy much

I agree you can eliminate every “need” a human has. I do not believe you would ever eliminate “everyone’s” desire for more. More everything. There will always be those that crave power for no other reason than to possess it. In the Gene Roddenberry vision people haven’t just had all their needs met they have stopped being humans.

Yeah I agree especially when you consider that Terok Nor was probably built in like the 2330s or 2340s. If three Galor class ships built in the 2360s were no match for a Galaxy class built in 2360 just imagine the difference in power between an old Cardassian station and the Federation’s flagship.

I really don't think, Roddenberry was ignorant. He hoped, that the humans would overcome their aggressive nature and become more peaceful in the future. But he considered, that not all Alien Life Forms would be so peacefull like the humans, so he put some defense weapons on the ships.

@@Anthyrion I would agree with that. I also think that it would be foolish to try to restrain Trek to "what Gene would've wanted". Plots have to advance, and the status quo produces stagnancy. Seeing the Federation trying to uphold the spirit of those ideals in the face of greater adversity is far more engaging and interesting than endless optimism in a utopia.

​@@darklordofsword Right. And like Sisko always been quoted: "It's easy to be a saint in paradise." The Federation had to adapt. Especially with threats like the Borg and later the Dominion. And until the unwilling encounter with the Borg, it wasn't really nessecary to produce real warships. The status quo of the three most powerful empires (Federation, Klingon, Romulans) kept itself in balance and if there was a problem, it was mostly sure, that the Federation Diplomates can handle the situation. And if not, the Federation was good enough equipped to deal with threats.

I do like the war plots more, or more precisely, the cultural balance between the military nature of Starfleet and it’s often unaggressive role. I also want shows that are smart, not just flashy and bloomy.

I want to see the J in all its glory on screen

I believe the Enterprise-E is still in service and we will see her before Picard is done. I also predict Captain Worf is in command of the Big E since in 2399 or 2400, The Enterprise-E would be only 26-27 years old. Young for an advanced Federation Starship.

@@davequinlan3020 I hope so. It would be nice to give her a proper send off at least.

@wolfkang1 Agreed. Since Data's death, and since Worf technically was a command officer, and also with his experience being Strategic Operations Officer (AKA Second Officer) on Deep Space Nine, I always surmised that Worf became Picard's XO following Nemesis. It only makes sense for Worf to take over command of the Enterprise-E following Picard's promotion and assignment to the Verity and leading the Romulan Evacuation. In my eyes, Commander Madden was never the Enterprise XO since that scene was deleted.

Akira/Sabre/Steamrunner: You need to stop. Defiant: We're officially past the point of conversation now. Sovereign: Who wants Daddy's belt?

I also liked that comment haha....

So here's the thing: The star trek movies suffer from a major issue of pacing: they tend to be paced like an episode of the show. That would be fine if they also shared the runtime of the show, or were paced like the multi-part stories. Thus we got plodding stories like The Motion Picture, with huge chunks of visual dead-air filler. Say what you want about the Kelvin timeline movies being "real trek", but they're infinitely more watchable *as movies* because they're actually *paced* like movies. First Contact is the one real exception among the original run of films, because it actually *is* paced like a pair of normal episodes edited together, just with a higher budget and better effects.

@@darklordofsword all i can say is, Well said

Damaging subspace was a stupid idea.

Honestly, it really doesn't make much sense to go through the whole saucer separation sequence every time you need to go into combat and then leave the saucer behind as a sitting duck because no one thought "hey, let's put even a small warp drive on this thing" Really, a failed design that I don't fault Picard for not using more.

@@Doctors_TARDIS fair point. But surely given that the warp engines are on the secondary hull, you’d use them to leave the saucer somewhere safe far away then warp to the combat area wouldn’t you? The long range sensors give plenty of warning that danger is nearby so they’d have plenty of time to separate the civilians and warp into danger using the secondary hull. Granted, it wouldn’t help if a Romulan warbird just randomly decloaked, and arguably it wasn’t sensible to have civilians on board a starship that Starfleet knew may well be going into combat - but that’s one of the issues with the “golden age” in the 2350s-2360s. Thank goodness the Borg came along 😂 shook some sense into everyone!

@@cha02psc Even if you had the perfect situation where you knew you were going into combat and could do all that ahead of time, that's a massive amount of time and effort you have to dedicate to the procedure. And like you said, long range sensors are a thing, so your enemy would likely know about the saucer since it can't get away. It was an awful idea to begin with.

The Scimitar came out of that fight worse off. The Big E's saucer section embedded itself halfway in its hull at the cost of only the first few forward compartments.

It would make sense in universe that sickbay (or at least one sickbay) may be modular. Especially if you have to quarantine it, it would make it easier to remove the module while maintaining the quarantine. That would get the ship back in service quickly.

It might be that it has Prometheus Tech but a Intrepid look. Both the Sovereign and Intrepid still daylight as science / exploration so the get the sickbay that designers think a civilian would like to be treated in but so no matter what is under the surface that is the look but the Prometheus gets whatever look it needs to heal patients quicker and get them back in to battle.

Sorry guys, there's literally no in-universe explanation to make it make sense. They reused Voyagers sick bay set because re-using and re-dressibg sets is practically franchise tradition, and Robert Picardo was basically the second most popular actor on Voyager, so they wanted to have him cameo, just like he had on DS9 playing Zimmerman.

nemesis has a new sickbay as voyager had ended,could just be more than one sickbay in the ship?

@@dalek12002 or it could be that we're a bunch of nerds obsessing over Continuity that nobody working on the project thought ANYONE would ever worry about.

But wait wait, where did you hear or read that the Sovereign Class only had forward facing torpedo launchers? It’s always had both a forward and rear launcher (maybe the rear one could only fire photon torpedos - kinda like the defiant).

Before being so quick to assume that the idea of war readiness betrays Gene's notion of a peace-loving idealistic society, let me remind you he was a bomber pilot in WW2, and an officer on the LAPD.

On top of that, the Constitution, Constitution Refit, and Excelsior were shining silver _gods_ of their eras. Remember, the Federation of Kirk's time only stayed coherent through military might. While primarily exploration ships, they also had to constantly put out brushfires in the form of local rivalries or old grudges flaring up. Otherwise, those brushfires would turn into full blown wildfires in the form of civil war. Timothy Zahn's _Hand of Thrawn_ duology in the Star Wars Expanded Universe provides a good example of what the early Federation was like, and what the 2360s Federation was _still_ like near its borders.

In DS9 they went to war using only your standard ships along with the Defiant. There didn't appear to be any destroyers, or battleships or anything like that. Ground forces seemed to be simply officers from those ships too, nothing like what we see in today's military with specialized roles such as the Marines, Navy, Army, etc.

@@beayn The ground forces seemed to have different uniforms. It could be enlisted Star Fleet that we never see, though.

Foreword: Sorry about the semi-novel. I started typing and just kinda kept going... The thing about Roddenberry's dream is just that, it is a dream. It is idealized, it is beautiful, but it doesn't fit well into reality. There are a couple of great quotes from season 4 of The Expanse. One is from Amos; "The thing about civilization is it keeps you civil. Get rid of one and you can't count on the other." The other is from Murtry; "People like you always forget, civilization has a lag time. Like light delay. You come out here, and you think because you're civilized, civilization comes with you. You're just walking in the footsteps of history. The ancient frontier. Those post offices, and railroads, and jails, cost thousands of lives to build. This is no different. I am the kind of man the frontier needs. You're the kind that comes after my work is done. You should have stayed at home .. 'til I built a post office." The reason I bring them up is both are about civilization. As long as civilization exists, and people want to act civil, then civil society can function. But when you get out onto the "frontier", civilization breaks down and it becomes a matter of carrying a stick big enough to make the price of mischief more expensive than the gains. The early years of Star Trek were a dream world where everything was relatively civilized. The few things that weren't were all weak enough to be cowed into submission and playing along. But in the real world, if someone doesn't agree with your civilized culture and wants to take your resources, if you do not maintain the strength to fight them, given enough time they will become strong enough to take it from you. We are seeing this very thing right now with the U.S. vs China. China generally doesn't say it out loud, but they very much want to be absolute alpha dog. The U.S. has ignored them for 20 years and now they are building up a military that, while not necessarily strong enough to defeat the U.S., IS strong enough to make it a VERY painful victory for the U.S. Don't get me wrong. I love the beautiful dream of early Star Trek, and I am not a big fan of the purely militaristic path that Star Fleet takes. But I like the acknowledgement that the world isn't perfect. I don't remember where it was, but I think there was a line somewhere in the Sovereign era films where Picard is nostalgic, and talks about how he missed the days when they were just explorers. I think it would be cool if they could move the Star Trek universe back to a more balanced position where you had pure civilian chips, general purpose exploration ships, and clearly military vessels, as an acknowledgement that peace is better, but conflict can't always be avoided and needs to be prepared for. It is like Disney vs an R rated movie. In Disney the villain is always vanquished, the hero always wins, and everyone lives happily ever after. But I hit a point on Netflix & Prime where all of the action/adventure movies I watched ended with humanity completely destroyed. Most entertainment seems to be binary, either one or the other. I like the ones where the good guys win in the end, but it also shows that things aren't all rainbows and hearts after a war because even when you win you still lose. It is just that you don't lose as much by winning as if you had lost or surrendered. I think Harry Potter did a bit of this at the end of the series. I would like to see more of it. Sorry for rambling and wandering off on a tangent.

Sorry, Jeffery Winiarz beat you out by 10 minutes brother…. he gets the gold and glory and 20 year old blonde bombshells. Lol

Listen guys, even Roddenbury’s vision allowed for phasers (and those nifty, upgraded Andorrian ones) and photo torpedos so…. I don’t see it a direct violation of his vision. It’s more like…. we’re putting contact lenses in instead of eye-glasses to help… Clarify what he was seeing.

I’d pay good money if Section31 made ONE heavily modified, ridiculously armed Oberth-Class vessel to play the part of the Kobyoshi-Maru when needed. Basically build it out of the most hardened, bad ass and expensive armor available, equip it minimal crew and amenities and use all that extra space for extremely advanced, cutting edge sensor inhibitors (to mask the upgrades), a Ridiculous-Type (Class OMG) warp-core, phaser strips all over the damn thing (especially those struts everyone loves so much) and, to placate all those Starfleet pacifists, use the cargo-hull to carry just a stupid amount of quantum & transphasic/tri-cobalt torpedos and antimatter. I’m talking like, you know, something so ungainly and horrible you wouldn’t even use it in wartime! Lololol like a nuclear and/or biological weapons!

There should be a watch officer there even durning normal running, most modern warships (and historic) have crew stationed at every control point in the ship (usually 2-4 of them)