How unlucky was that second chap? Attacked twice by minature thugs wielding rocks & air rifles. Nearly hit a confused old dear, then has a spad on his first tour of duty!!!!
Watching rail safety videos like this, i am amazed they let nutcases like me drive a car on the roads.... Train drivers are responsible for more lives for sure... but still wow
Having worked in Sydney Signal boxes the demand of 12 hour rotating shifts without proper protocol for toilet or meal brakes , employee fatigue was and still is a real concern.
That signal at the end of the platform at Stirling was both improperly maintained and impossible for the driver featured to see coming away from the platform at night: All to do with night vision adjustment time having been exposed to platform lighting. The oil lamp on the semaphore signal also did not appear to be working and illuminating the red / green aspect the signal provides alongside the visual up or down / level indication. Very interesting video :o)
That is true but he should have performed his dispatch procedure properly. If he could not see the signal then he should have assumed it to be at danger, called the signaler and held the train until authorised to move by the signaler or a change of signal aspect.
@The secular humanist They saved money by putting in a single-lead junction at Hyde Junction in 1984. This helped turn a SPAD into a head-on collusion in 1991 (resulting partly from a hard-to-see gantry signal above the cab of the errant driver, like 'SN109').
@@modelsteamers671 When this video was made it was highly likely to have still been a paraffin lamp behind the lenses. Only in the last few years have LEDs replaced even low-wattage electric bulbs.
No driver sets out to SPAD and it takes a very real toll on your personal physiology. Any rail investigator will tell you that any incident is always because of the failure of a number of things as this video shows. The hardest part of preventing SPADs is getting drivers to open up when they've got personal problems. The former CEO of my railway started out as a driver on the London Underground. I started driving trains in Sydney in 1984. Even though we started in railways on opposite sides of the world we were both told the same thing..."When something is going wrong then STOP and take a moment to think about the problem". Drivers need to recognise: 1. when things are getting on top of them 2. if something has gone wrong then don't make it worse by trying to keep going or cover it up and 3. if you're having personal issues please ask for help, no-one will think less of you and most will admire it for you. I always tell my drivers "It's easier to explain a delay than it is to explain a derailment or worse". There is a belief out there at least on my railway (not always unwarranted) that they'll hang you for causing a delay. If the delay is for no real reason then you deserve to be hung but if there was a very good reason then nobody can touch you. The fact is that SPADs cost a railway a lot of money whereas a delay is an inconvenience. Losing an experienced driver who made a mistake and has learnt their lesson means that the organisation is not learning and will keep making the same mistakes.
thank you for uploading this,its a good topic for conversation and one of my friends relatives is a driver. i know he will find this interesting and helpful.
The guy at 17:00 sums up a lot of industries right there, not just railways. When people are so used to everything running without issue, when something is different, it doesn't register.
@@georgehoward7991 passing a signal by centimetres is classed as an incident and will have you taken off the unit, drug and alcohol tested, investigation, action plan and will go on your driving record permanently. passing a signal at danger could have major consequences. In that short 3m could be a set of points meaning that there could potentially be a collision. passing a signal is never "not the end of the world" and is always treated seriously.
That platform starter at Stirling (signal 70),looked a bit of a bastard & poor to sight when coming out of the brightly lit station environment. Could have certainly benefited from being converted to a co-acting or even better a colour light.
It's a Branch Line with Single Track British Rail Western Region put at least the home Signal there and a Fixed distant means that you have to approach at caution expecting the Signal to be at danger, if you haven't noticed the Pacer involved in the incident was going faster that it would normally be going if the driver was doing what I have mentioned and what ideally you would do and expect.
I did think that after such a traumatic incident as the stone-throwing one the driver should have had about a month or two off before being invited to return.
Nonetheless, in each of these cases, the driver reacted in a textbook manner. Emergency brake....stop.....check....report. As for the little shits with the air rifle, what were they aiming at? Signals? Trains? People are human. They bring human weaknesses to work, and considering how few major incidents we have on railways, it is a restatement to their professionalism. In fact, I think I’m right in saying most if not all of the injuries and fatalities recently have come from rail failures.
As a motorman on Southern Region, I ALWAYS thought you should KNOW YOUR ROAD ! Never mind chavs chucking things on the line, or shooting airguns, my job was to drive safely and protect my crew and passengers. I feel sorry for Bernie though, but with the way it is now, the Train Operating Company will put points on your driver's licence, even though something may not be your fault. They will also get rid of you if you have too much time off as a result of an incident. SouthEastern Trains and sister Southern are notorious for this sort of thing. Glad I'm retired. Don't bother even applying for a job on the failway now. It's full of red tape, arsewipes, and backstabbers galore.
Exactly the wrong way to deal with failures. Rather than focusing on who is to blame, and deciding that people who fail are bad and should be gotten rid of, you improve safety by figuring out why people failed, helping then learn from their mistakes, and looking at the whole system with fresh eyes to see how it can be changed to make mistakes less likely and less costly when they do happen. People who've learned from past mistakes are an asset.
That buzzer problem would be enough to distract lesser people trying to drive a train. Hope that all the drivers depicted here have had successful careers and not dwelled on these incidents to a point that it eats away at their mental state
don't forget shooting the Pacers with air rifles for good measure, and apparently people have more recently been throwing derail grease devices onto the track (!) At least the signalling has had a major upgrade since then. Those mechanical boxes along the lines are out of use and it's all controlled from Cardiff now.
i was on a charter train and just left the station , picking up a bit of speed and the carriage window bursts in a stone big as a fist boiunces on the table then to the floor, it was an autumn evening coming back from york, and it made for a cold journey.
As far as the driver in Wales is concerned, sadly these incidents aren't uncommon. The two young lads should have faced some kind of sentence through the courts and Crown Prosecution Service.
It would be better if the guard could still look out after the doors shut,he might well have thought "bloody hell it's red!" given one on the bell or "dropped the handle" and perhaps they'd have stopped in time.On many newer units this is no possible, such as 375s and 377s. But all three,driver,guard, and platform staff should've checked the signal aspect. I ALWAYS checked that before moving,and NEVER had a SPAD. They were lucky no damage was done. That DRA Driver's Reminder Appliance thing wasn't much use as it can be overridden.
But it's all too easy to fall into traps, as the last driver with the divorce problems, and the faulty buzzer, says. You never stop learning on the railway.
@@riverhuntingdon6659 Shouldn't he have taken the train out of service with a faulty buzzer? Talking to Steve (the Conductor) did reveal a likely buzzer fault as he denied all knowledge of using the buzzer.
Yes it always impresses me that, on traIns where it's still possible, the Guard always stands at his open door looking forward until virtually the entire train has left the platform in Australia. He can also see any near platform signals. Search `XPT leaves Penrith for Dubbo' for an example.
@@PottersVideos2 Just in case you weren’t aware I understand from the comments to another video that River has passed away. I will miss him and his vast knowledge of working on the railway (mainly BR I think). And btw his name really was River, before coming across him I’d only heard of River Phoenix. At least he lives on via his RU-vid account.
There has been a number of incidents of trains being hit by children throwing stones in the South Wales Valleys Some idiot dragged a rail greaser onto the track at Llanbradach a few years ago late at night. A two car Pacer train hit it but very fortunately deed not derail.
Why is there no audible voice warning for the prior signal in the cab that is required to be turned off. its much harder to miss such than a mere reset button or such.
There is, it's just not a voice. If the next signal is green, a bell or chime sounds. If it is red or yellow, a horn sounds and the reset must be acknowledged in two seconds or an emergency brake application occurs.
In the first spad incident if there was a guard light that illuminates when the platform starting signal is not at danger then it would have been avoided. We have this guard light here in sydney
the signal does have a lamp that shines through a coloured piece to indicate the position of the signal (it will appear red when the signal is horizontal, or green when the signal is at 45 degrees) although it seems to be either very dim for some reason, or not even lit
I would say for the first driver. The delays of both trains and the lack of a break to refresh plus the distraction lead to his train doing a SPAD. The second incident though. I felt sorry for the poor driver because of eejits tossing a rock at his train (which could have killed him if it made contact!) and the woman on the tracks and the sheep incident was all stacked against him. The faulty buzzer unless the guard was doing that stupid and potentially dangerous prank and the poor driver going through a divorce which can be messy was the result of the third SPAD. They are all human and are prone to making mistakes as well like the rest of us. Though thankfully none resulted in a crash.
Semaphores seem quite hard to read at night - they should be converted to light signals or at least have extra lighting provided in front to make it extra clear
I know absolutely nothing about driving a train (we call it "engineer" here on the "other side of the pond" [I learned that term, too]). At any rate, I find these captivating. Thank you so much for sharing.
it sounds like him throughout as well :D except when other people are talking obviously, such as Lynne Milligan of Arriva Trains Wales (yes she was still customer services director right up to the end in late 2018!)
@@RWL2012 Very likely to be Railtrack as they ceased in 2002 & National Express Scotrail ceased in 2004 & This film seems to be around early 2000s quality and the incident happend in 2001 so you would be right.
I feel for these brave guys. Here is a fact. I see driving trains as a greater responsibility than flying a plane. If something goes wrong on landing, a pilot has the choice to go around. A train driver gets one chance and two options... go or stop, can't turn left, can't turn right. In the UK, I feel very safe riding by train, which I do a lot.
@@peterjones6733 wow you replied after 3 years lol. but there is a reason pilots are made to train for YEARS. planes are in the air its more dangerous by common sense. Its not just up down left right, its not stalling, turbulence, engine failure, problems on board etc..
You should emblement “Automatic Train Stops” like they have in Toronto and New York City subways. You pass a red signal the trains brakes are automatically applied! And the signals should have repeaters and timers on a curve.
They do these days - this is an old video, TPWS is pretty widespread now (which has overspeed sensors and train stops, and is designed to stop a train before it leaves the safety overlap)
since this clip was filmed, Scotrail is now owned by Obelio, Valley Lines is now owned by Arriva Trains Wales/ Trenau Arriva Cymru and Centro (apart of Central Trains) is now owned by London Midland.
also Midland Mainline is now part of East Midlands Trains. Arriva Trains Wales replaced both Wales and Borders Trains and Valley Lines (both of which were owned by National Express Group along with Wessex Trains and Central Trains), and Arriva Trains Wales / Trenau Arriva Cymru has recently been taken over by Transport for Wales / Trafnidiaeth Cymru. The Lynne Milligan in this video was still the customer services director of Arriva Trains Wales right up until its demise in late 2018! By the way London Midland wasn't a company "per se", it was a brand of Govia which is the company behind the Thameslink, Southern, Great Northern, Gatwick Express and Southeastern brands or "companies".
Agreed: they're easy to miss, even in daylight. One SPAD (that led immediately to a non-fatal collision) occurred on my local line when a driver moved away under a colour-light signal that was sited on a gantry high above his cab, just in front of the train. After this incident, a supplementary platform "OFF" signal was installed, along with catch-points and a sand-drag that hadn't been thought necessary when the money-saving single-lead track (replacing separate tracks) that had made the collision inevitable was installed. Maybe someone should make a closer study of signal-installations to see if their positioning and visibility should be improved for the drivers' benefit.
Do other people have dreams nightmares about SPADs? I have the common dream/nightmare of been at work and I experience SPAD. I also have the other dream of people jumping in front of my train but that another story. I love this job but it the only job I've ever had that literally gives me nightmares.
i get that spads could lead to people getting killed and have resulted in so but why do they overhype them "the drivers recount something theyd much rather forget" then they proceed to re enact a spad where they wiggle a few feet past the light but nothing else happened kinda anti climatic i mean ok this one was a little more serious but what actually happenns after this cause the narator makes out that they have harrowing and traumatic expiriances just from going over the light by a verry small amount
Personally, when I had one (in the U.S., its just called "running a red signal"), I was in no danger. The grade crossing arms were down, the incoming train was holding at a red signal--waiting for me to exit the station and cross over. It's WAY over dramatized because there's ALWAYS a chance chance things could have gone haywire. The feeling sucks. You replay it in your head, wondering where you messed up. Then, all the retraining...kind of embarrassing. It's a dramatic to-do. Supervisors pull you off your train and send you home, after you do a write-up. Glad I only had one. I know some who've had three in a couple month's span.
How the hell are we arguing about them missing literally unseeable signals? The stirling one: not easy to see The second one: literally no way to see it. It has nothing to do with train technology as outlined by one guy and I doubt very much so it has anything to do with age and experience as outlined by the woman or complacency.... poor signal maintenance, poor signal placing, poor track side maintenance are to blame for these. not the drivers. Only the last one is to really be blamed on the driver, but the previous two? nah.
I can tell who that angry passenger was...I know it was an actor, but it's Paul Tyreman again... Scotrail, ONE Anglia, First Great Western and LOROL hired him for A LOT.
Do you ever get railway companies calling Signal And Or Points Set Incorrect as SAOPSI? Well Henry the Green engine from the Railway Series/Thomas and Friends had a “SAOPSI” when he was pulling the flying kipper. Or is the technology just so advanced these days that “SAOPSIs” may never happen at all?
I'm surprised that nowadays we don't have the technology to ensure that trains can't run red lights: automated/computer-controlled communication between the signalling system and the train hardware. Maybe in years to come we will (even driverless trains), or maybe in principle we do now, but cost is prohibitive.
In the UK they actually made a system known as TPWS, that pretty much does everything you said. It even brakes trains that are speeding, and will emergency brake trains that SPAD.
@@SgtChip TPWS isn't to prevent SPADs through the train will usually still stop beyond the signal it's job is to reduce the consequences of a SPAD it should stop the train before it fouls a junction especially as some higher risk junctions hold two signals at danger, not just the one immediately prior. There are also 2 lines that have a proper train protection system that constantly monitors the speed of the train and calculates a speed curve to slow down for speed restrictions and red signals they were pilot programs that were supposed to be rolled out to the rest of the network but they cheaped out so that didn't happen and they rolled out TPWS instead. Now there's a slow rollout of ETCS Level 2 which is also an ATP system but more suited for the 21st century and will replace AWS and TPWS eventually but the pace of that is glacial.
its the aws or tpws safety system, when you pass a green signal a bell or a ding sounds, a yellow or red sounds a horn which has to be cancelled by pressing a button within 3 seconds or the brakes are applied
Good point although modern signals are bright and focussed at the Driver. Another point worth discussion is why can't the Single Yellow and Red signals have a different in cab sounder to Double Yellow (I believe it to be difficult / impossible technically).
@Martindyna I was following n watching rail videos as I wanted to be a train driver but realised its very very difficult so gave up n not watching any videos so was surprised to see your reply. I had forgotten about train lol. Train driver selection is is like winning lottery n then getting the job is like winning lottery twice in a raw lol.
@@goilee9716 I was unhappy in my office job and applied to be a train driver but I was unsuccessful. I'm glad because I'm not sure I had the right qualities to be a driver.
