After all these years I just didn’t pay Attention to phase settings that being said I was about to get a new sun because I thought that it was the issue. You just saved me from having to get 1.Thanks for the info!!!
That was a good presentation. I'd also add that if you are by yourself, REW program can help. I place the UMIK-1 microphone in the seating position, and use the SPL meter. This works for those who have delay on their subwoofer. First you want to level match your subwoofer(s) with the front drivers using white noise. Then, if you adjust the delay nob, you'll see the SPL meter increase in dB in reference to the front drivers. The goal is to get the loudest dB possible without increasing the volume of the subwoofer. If you have a second or third subwoofer, use the first subwoofer as the reference. Keep in mind that this is to adjust the phase in the main seating position. Everyone's room is different and may have multiple seats or rows of seating. So results will vary. People with the 0 to 180⁰ switch, well, in my opinion, a MiniDSP coupled with REW would be a good investment for bass management. You have so many videos, you may have covered this already. 😅😂
Finally, thank you! I got the answer to a question that I have asked. I don’t have the equipment to do measurements, so, I had to go by what I heard. I have a pair of SVS PB 1000 Pro in the front, and a pair of Klipsch R12’s in the back, and the phase is what I was asking about. I had all the subs at 0 phase, and always thought that something was missing. I put in a reference demo (GKOTM) sat in my seat and listened, and wasn’t getting that “oooommmmppphhhh” I should hear. I than changed the phase to the rear subs, played back the opening credits to GKOTM, and the Kraken was awakened. I not only heard them, I felt them!! When I’m able to get the necessary gear, I will sit and take measurements and see what I see.
Of all the videos I have watched on what phase is and what it is not...your video was the best. I have created a music-listening room where I have placed two Klipsch bookshelf speakers and a single Klipsch R-100W-10 subwoofer. Being a total newbie, I appreciate your simple but clear video. Thank you!
Ahhhhhhhhhh Finally, phase is explained in a way that I understand. Great job 👍 What's up at 3:10. I'm thinking localization is letting the sub woofer announce it's presence
You don't want to hear where the subwoofer is specifically. You want it to blend with your system so that, yes, it's presence is there but not its positioning. If that makes sense
This one is spot on. The only thing i can add is that if you don't have a calibrated mic and rew it is extremely difficult doing this by ear, specially if you have a dial from 0 to 180. Best to use low frequencies, everything under 27hz should be ok. The reason is that those wavelengths are soo long, they almost never cancel each other, there are no nulls there. You can use Audacity to create a sweep from 20 to 30hz make it play for 2 seconds and repeat for 5 minutes for example. Play that sound and start changing the chase degree on 1 sub only. Leave the other one at 0. You want to hear the bass get louder on the whole sweep not just at 1 frequency, Repeat this until the bass is the loudest. It should be around 6db higher than when using a single sub. The only issue is that this phase change will change the upper frequencies too. It will move the null point but without a graph it's almost impossible to make it perfect.
1:23 Phase and Polarity are different things. Polarity shift is an y-axis variance, where the signal can get positive or negative value and is not affecting the x-axis (the time domain of the signal), whereas the phase shift is a time-domain "delay introduction" in the signal. For example, a 90° phase shift, as in a circle, is a quarter-rotation or a quarter of a wavelength. Polarity is more used for microphones, where we can shift the polarity from positive to negative in case of two microphones facing each other (i.e. snare recording with mics up and down) and we don't get cancellation of the signal. If we use phase shift for this case, then we can have an inconsistent signal that is not aligned in the time domain. In the DAW, we can perform this phase alignment and bring back the signal from the second microphone to be timed correctly with the first microphone, and then again we have not done literally anything and we'll have still phase cancellation from both mics. That's where polarity is used.
Polarity is the special case of phase being 180 degrees shifted at all frequencies. There is no delay associated with that, except for the phase delay which an apparent delay seen steady state, but the system has no latency. A time delay on the other hand is a linear phase shift across the frequency region, and in this case there is indeed a delay. So your first statements are not correct.
Thank you! About time someone tells me about this. As you can tell brand new to subwoofers. I have KEF Q950 tower speakers and mostly listen to jazz and classical, thank you again!
I have to give you credit for simplifying the subject of phase. I also did not get a chance to comment on your video featuring premium car audio and I really enjoyed it. I wanted to know that if in a car system it would be advantageous to add an amp/ sub, I know you really liked the JBL and I agree. What I like about factory systems is the head unit is already integrated to the specific car not just for sound but for the air and information of the car diagnostics. I would love to have that kind of integration from an after market system but I have not found that in those systems. Thank you for your videos and stay safe K Pace!
I just want to say thank you. You may not see this as its an old 2yr video but bro. You made a how to/explanation of phase so simple…a caveman can do it. 😆(Sorry would have been a wasted opportunity.) Anyway, thank you because looking for a what are you trying to hear with phase has been arduous. Yes I have a basic understanding of phase but I want to KNOW and Ytubers do a bad job of breaking this down. They are either pretentious w/o knowing it. Saying a bunch of words but explaining nothing OR they are out of their field of knowledge. Just copying n paste what others say to make some quick content. It’s ridiculous. I’ve blabbed enough, just had to leave a lengthy comment of thank you this video is golden and deserves more praise and views for what it accomplishes. Have a great day and a happy new year to you. 🤙🏾
Thank you for all your deep and expanded shared knowledge in audio electronics. I am learning a lot and can definitely apply them in my own personal setup at home. 😀 Excited
My subwoofers are facing my front speakers and I was playing with the phase switch and noticed that putting the subwoofers in 180 made the sound much more clear and in tune with the front speakers. Now all of the speakers are going in the same direction. The change was dramatic. The Bass is now smooth and not punchy anymore.
Got my first ever sub yesterday and have been looking into phase today. When I saw your clip, I thought "at last - an easily understandable explanation" 👍
@@Kpaceguy I've used an SPL app on my phone and a 80hz test tone from RU-vid, 180 degrees had a 10db higher level than 0 degrees. Now going to re-run my amp calibration. Thanks for the help 👍
I followed your suggestions before but I use a sound meter to adjust my phase by slowly turning the phase knob on the Sub until the meter reads highest, setting my meter to read at 75 dB this helps with setting up my Subs Phase
I have a music only system with one sub closer to the listener and by setting the closer one at 180 the sub sounds louder - which means it is more efficient which was an improvement in the overall sound. . .. .
Bettwen ur Atmos speakers witch one do u prefere....... the SVS or the Canton ????? Cause I m looking for the sound quality for buying the Atmos speakers. Thanks 👍🏽👍🏽👋🏽👋🏽
From 2019 when i start my HT project, i leave my phase to rev as per recommended by Yamaha. However i miss out it stated in manual i can change to normal if it suite my taste. After 5 years, I switch to normal and I can feel more wave coming from the front.
I have the same sub position on top left in minute 4:00 and rear right sub is on same position but facing TV should I set bot phases the same or each sub should be set on different phase 1 is a 10” and other is a 12” different brand. Thanks in advance
You'll probably have to play with it and see what sounds best. Blending is your biggest issue with them being different brands and sizes. I'd keep the front sub at 0 and play with the rear sub phase and see what sounds best and then I'd try to volume match them as close as you can. Maybe crossover your 10in higher than your 12
Hey I'm a still-learning audio engineer and my outdoor venue system has 4 truss-mounted main speakers and two subs. I think one speaker is out of phase, though now that I think about it maybe the subs are too. Should the subs be opposite numbers or same numbers generally? (eg 0-0, 25-155 for subs or adjacent speakers) Or no rhyme or reason to what works best?
The best way to know if your subs are out of phase (without measurement) is to do two things: 1) usually adjacent subs have opposite phase numbers but it's not always the case so best thing is to have some change the phase while you listen for a change in bass and when you find the most bass output (volume) leave the setting there! 2) Another thing you can do is play a very low test tone like 15hz or 10hz and see what direction each speaker is moving. If one speaker is pushing out while one speaker is pulling in, it's out of phase. Sometimes that's OK depending on placement, but you can decide that with test #1
So i have 2 Klipsch R100SW 10 inch subs. I have one in front to the right side of my right tower, and the 2nd sub is right across the 1st one looking at each other close to my listening position on the right side of the sofa. i did the crawl method and those were the strongest points to place the sub. So my question is should i just leave the phase on zero or 180? or leave front sub at zero and 2nd one at 180?
Yes. You'll have your loudest response when your speakers are perfectly in phase. I wouldn't use a frequency too low or too high. I did mine with 30-50hz
Question please. If the phase of my 2 subwoofer not set properly, will that affect how the bass is projected towards where I want it . I have notice when I set up my live band with my subs one on each side or even both together in the front , the dance floor or front audience area , the bass is not so great ,but if I walk around to the right side of the band then the bass fells much good
Im trying to understand this but still doesn't make much sense to me. I understand about polarity which is making sure the speakers are at their correct positive connection and negative connections, which will make them in phase. BUT what I'm confuse is where you can "ADJUST" a phase from a particular speaker in contrast with the other speaker in order to get a "better sound. Im more into car audio and I've read about this same issue. Do you need some type of metered equipment to help with this?
Having a way to measure it will help because the sound difference is not always obvious. You can set phase individually on really really good head units but that's expensive. It's not really important on door or rear deck speakers so long as they are moving in the same direction. If your wires aren't crossed then you're good. It's really the subs that matter and your amp will have a phase switch to set it. An spl meter can help and as you turn the knob up and down at a highest frequency, say 80hz, you can see the spl move up and down. The loudest spl is your most in phase setting
@@Kpaceguy right. I understand having both speakers wired correctly positive to positive and negative to negative. And if for some reason you wire one backwards, that's where the phase switch is there for. BUT, I've also read about switching one purposely out of phase to actually make the music sound better. Like some automakers actually wire their factory speakers out of phase sometimes in order to get a better sound of their factory systems. Something to do with sound cancelation having two speakers specially facing each other.
Yes that's correct. Its true in home theater too. Sometimes one speaker needs to be out of phase or its actually fighting against the opposite speaker. In that case having the switch to "in phase" is actually out of phase acoustically
I have an idea. In a single sub setup, what if I set my crossover high to 120hz, LFE+Main, speakers set to small, and sub-woofer placed beside my mains, with my phone set in slow motion mode at 240 frames per second while playing a bassy song. I should be able to clearly see the woofers moving in sync (or out of) when adjusting the phase dial? Just a thought that popped up in my head. Would this work?
Yes and no. It could confuse you because your speakers won't play the same frequencies as your subwoofer all the time or at the same volume level. So the subwoofer may be moving when the speakers are not. And vice versa. In my video I had all my speakers set to 40hz and played a 20hz test tone and was able to see they were moving the same direction. If your subwoofer isn't next to your mains, sometimes being in phase is not the best setting
If you use LFE+Main your Left and Right are playing full range (like setting them large), there is no crossover. Not sure about the center, but every other speaker will have a crossover point, just not your Left and RIght. This is dangerous because they are gonna play full volume bass. Movies that have 15hz will blow up your speakers if they don't have a cross over at port frequency. About the rest of the idea, if you run the avrs calibration it should phase match the sub to the rest of the speakers avg. The distance the avr sets, is like a phase, the more distance you add the more delay in ms you add or increasing the phase degrees or basically delaying the subwoofer. When you set your Left and Right at 0 distance they are gonna play at the same time. If you make your Left play at 3 meters distance, it will make the Right speaker delay it's sound by 3 meters or 8.75ms. So your Left speaker will start playing, after 8.75ms your Right speaker will start playing resulting in phase matching them.
Hi guys. I have 2 matching Dayton sub's. I put one in phase 180. I definitely got more base at seated position. . They were both canceling each other out badly both at 0 phase. Is that OK to leave it 1 in 1 out of phase since music did sound much better? And does that mean movies will sound better?
I had asked the same question to others, with different responses (Umik 1, REW and so forth). So, a little experiment, (I had all subs at 0 phase) I put in GKOTM, and listened to the first 8 to 1o mins.
@@wendellwendellb339 ultimately you'll want to select with gives you the most output. Sometimes 180 works sometimes not. Depends your crossover too. If you have variable phase then you can sit down and fine tune but if you're just flipping a switch the choose what gives the most bass output
Well explained. I have a dial on my sub for cross over frequency. Any advice on that? I have already set the amp settings to cross over at 90hZ so what should I set the sub to and why is it there?
Man I got like 30 seconds into it and already I know there is misinformation. Phase isn’t a setting on the speaker it’s a physics issue with how sound travels through air and when audio is out of phase there is too much air moving in the same place so you get a lack of of loudness because there isn’t enough air to move. The sound waves are actively cancelling each other out. They smash into each other at exactly the same speed and almost cancel each other out. This results in a perceived lack of loudness. If you perceive this try playing with the phase, a lot of times inverting the phase will help or at least give you a better representation of where your loudness is sitting at.
Every time I run a room calibration my Polk LSIM 707 and 706C are labelled as out of phase error by Yamaha 2080. I absolutely know they are not.Yamaha even admits in manual that this should be ignored if speakers are in phase. Its frustrating that a receiver can't get this right .
Hey Partner .. I'm running a 2 subwoofer system on LFE and I was told to set one sub at "0" and the other at "180" .. does that sound correct to you ? .. Thanks for time
? Okay first you say that subs that are in sync are working together and make more bass, and when they’re out of sync they cancel eachother out.... but then you say that if you have two subs adjacent then one should be out of phase, because If they’re in phase they will cancel eachother out. This doesn’t make sense.
In phase with each other and in sync are different. If both subs are moving the Same direction but are facing each other then they're pushing and pulling sound waves at the same time. It's like you and I have a cup of water and I throw my cup trying to hit you and at the same time you throw yours trying to hit me but the water is just splashing against itself and never reaching the target because we threw it at the same time. So we might be in sync as far as movement goes but we aren't in phase. If you turn the 2nd adjacent sub out of phase now we can throw our water and hit each other. Hope that helps.
Kpaceguy okay this makes more sense.... so I have two subs at the front of my room (7.2 system) both facing forward towards the audience. I can keep the phase switch set to 0 on both of them right? Would setting one of them to 180 do much of anything? Thanks a lot!
@@vaughnwolf101 yes I'd leave it at 0. 180 will probably have either zero effect or negative effect. It is worth trying though especially if both subs aren't the same
First wrong information is phase do not polarity on a amps to send to a speaker, it change the sound wave. The live will be the live and the ground will be the ground. LEARN THAT.
you talk too much without showing the physical activity, not the mental one, because I wasn't interested, I'm wasting my time looking at a fool like a technician who doesn't interest me
