To be fair, he prayed for spiderman to die and then a fuckin' goop came outta the statue and gave him superpowers. Its like you praying for someone to die and the cross opens up to reveal a fucking sword, its divine will at that point.
Plus this version of venom unequivocally messes with your head and makes you more aggressive, Doctor Connors discovers as such while Peter is in his weird emo dork phase. So give aggression enhancing superpowers to a guy so desperate and petty that he is praying to God for a guy he dislikes to die. This version of Eddie Brock is NOT a good person, or even a very smart one, but he was basically doomed as soon as venom got him.
@@timothycarney9652Thats whats all about,venom is the worst peter could ever be,an egoistical version that only uses its power for the most selfish and petty reasons,someone with no bounderies,just someone out right bad,the anti spiderman,you get it
@@usuario15965Spider Man 3 understood how to do Brock properly in a way these shams of a Venom film series never had. Stan Lee himself said he was the "shadow of Spider Man; all the power and even more, with none of the responsibility".
You say this as if the plot of _Spider-Man 3_ isn't a joke already, especially given Raimi's dislike of Venom but being forced to use him anyway by execs making the movie what it was.
Literally everything about sandman in this movie was amazing, & that's objective fact. Spiderman 3 was all over the place, sure, but that wasn't Raimi's fault. That was Sony's for trying to force in Venom. This is incredibly evident by the fact that sandman is written SO much better, because HE was supposed to be the focus of the 3rd movie. Every sandman scene just leaves me in awe. Such a beautifully tragic way to reinvent his character.
@Iiiiiiiii69iiiiiiiiii You can enjoy something while admitting it is poorly executed on an objective level. Venom has never received a good live-action characterization, let alone perfect.
@Iiiiiiiii69iiiiiiiiii I like Raimi's Venom too, but it's in no way an accurate adaption, it's perfectly fine to have your opinions, just don't go around rage baiting.
In the comics after Peter got him fired, Eddie lost his fiance and his apartment, which... still isn't worth KILLING over, but when a bitter alien symbiote gets their hands on you....
Peter didn't even get him fired on purpose. Eddie accidentally interviewed the wrong guy posing as Sin Eater and he published it before the real guy got caught by Peter.
Pretty sure it was in fact told why. That wasn't this symbiotes issue, this one is the raimi symbiote, it slowly kills weaker hosts(body isn't strong enough to resist), and without a strong host it will eventually die. This one also didn't adapt to peters bad thoughts like most versions of venom, it's just extremely aggressive.
Note: the weak host thing is also why his teeth are like that, it was literally physically changing him and not molding itself around him. Honestly don't blame peter for leaving this venom to die.
In defence of Eddie, Peter had the Daily Bugle retract the paper with the fake Spiderman images and the Daily Bugle issued a paper with an apology for Spiderman AND the name/identity and picture of Eddie Brock on the front page, listing Eddie as the "faker." So Eddie Brock's reputation was ruined by Peter asking the Daily Bugle to... admit that Eddie Brock lied. Yeah, it's still Eddie's fault for ruining his own reputation but he still blames Peter for... asking the Daily Bugle to be honest. Yeah, I don't know where I was going with this comment.
@CyanRooper basically that Eddie was a scumbag from start to finish and deserved no sympathy. The other Raimi villains had something. Norman was pressured to rush a super soldier serum to avoid losing a military contract and his board members went behind his back and tried to sell his company. Adding the split personality escalated things. Otto's attempt at science ended badly and his robot arms manipulated him. Marko was desperate to save his dying daughter. Eddie was just butthurt over being called out.
@@Elemento0420This is why this is the best adaption of Eddie. Thats who hes supposed to be. Stan Lee called him "the power of Spider Man with none of the responsibility". Eddie literally graped Mary Jane in the comics which is why she demanded Peter to get rid of the cloth Black Suit because of the trauma from that. Eddie was a scumbag, it took him having to fight a serial killer, having what he did to MJ completely retconned, and getting cancer to even start his redemption arc. Eddie being uwu nice boi in the Venom films is entirely unearned. Idk if professional victim is the right word for Eddie here but it perfectly encapsulates who he is and why giving him the symbiote is such a recipe for disaster in terms of the threat it makes him.
While Topher Grace was a big comic book fan and had read the first Venom stories as a boy, he found the suit he had to wear as Venom extremely unpleasant. It took an hour to put on (and four hours to apply the prosthetics), and it had to be constantly smeared with goo to give it a liquid organic feel. Grace also had to wear fangs, which bruised his gums. While being in the Venom costume, Topher Grace didn't drink any water during his breaks because he couldn't use the bathroom with his costume on, making the experience even more unplesant.
@@DarthVader0001 Tom hardy’s venom looks good, I’m gonna watch the first film and while I heard the film sucks I heard that venom was pretty good and I guess it’s more comic accurate now since venom is an anti hero
@@HitoshuratdnThe only one I know of was from the 90s Spider-Man parody where Peter gaslights the Sinister Six into believing Chameleon is the real webslinger.
That's known as the sunk cost fallacy, and because it feels so bad is often used to get people to continue doing things they rather wouldn't just so they can justify all the time and effort they've already invested. TV series and live service video games use this tactic to keep people watching, or playing even after the show or game is no longer any good, and people end up continuing just because they've already put a bunch of time into it.
@@NRSGuardian Makes sense. I'm currently trapped into something similar but what's worse is it's a passion project/hobby from 2012 that began with a grudge but after my significant finally told me she genuinely doesn't care anymore about our conflict I'm left with hundreds if not a couple thousand dollars at this point spent on something built on a foundation of artistic glory throughout various types of media and genres all to prove a point to her.
It was originally planned for the Symbiote to reveal Eddie's smoking skeleton when Peter separated them, meaning that the Symbiote drained it's host's life (similar to it's What If... Brave New World incarnation); Venom was also going to talk and say the line, "Never wound what you can't kill", before trying to merge with Peter again. Spider-Man would put an end to the Symbiote by repeatedly striking the steel pipes caging the Symbiote until it's form dissipated entirely. This was reshot because the test audience deemed it too dark for younger viewers, but was kept in the novelization. The skeleton props were also made, with Eddie's skull in particular having a resemblance to Venom's face. When Eddie jumps towards the Symbiote during their deaths in the explosion, for a few frames, his skeleton briefly appears around the same time the ball of nuclear energy is released after being pulled in. This is the only part that still remains of the original scene.
@@CyanRooper and it’s even weirder because Raimi already has scary scenes in these films, like the Doc Ock hospital massacre. Why not let him leave things a bit more frightening? It’s a creepy mind altering goo alien, play with it a bit
In the video game Venom falls from the building and gets impaled by metal rods. I always thought that scene was horrific as a kid and I wondered why the game differed from the movie.
Well lets be fair, Eddie didn't CHOOSE to wear the suit, it desperately grabbed onto him after spiderman ripped it off, and THIS version of the symbiote definitely messes with your head. Toby Spiderman's "evil" is very dorky, but it is scientifically proven to make you more aggressive- so add that to a guy that was as desperate and petty as this version of eddie brock, him trying to kill spiderman makes total sense. Its not a great plan, but it is certainly one that that person in that situation would make.
I don't think him having the suit is the problem here. It more of... You know... The things he did with those powers instead of finding a new job. That was the real choice here.
@@mas8705 Well, he was trying to make a reference to a previous SolidJJ video about Bane repeatedly breaking Batman's back so I think we can let this one slide (like how Peter Parker's marriage slid into the freaking gutter after Mary Jane met Paul).
@@lololordjrThe famous scene where Gwen Stacy when is throw off a bridge by Green Goblin, Spider-Man accidentally snaps her neck trying to save her and so she dies anyway.
@@lololordjr In the Amazing Spider-Man 2 Spiderman tries to save Gwen Stacy from falling to her death but he fails to catch her in time and she hits the ground hard breaking her neck and back.
Love that you touched on the ‘going to church to ask god to kill someone he didn’t like’ thing. That was always a weird change since… OG Eddie was at that church asking forgiveness the night he got the Symbiote. *Because he was going to kill himself.* Studios really like ballsing up Venom’s backstory, even the closest one they pulled was way off the mark.
Peter: "You know, I might've gotten you fired, but you have this cool new alien suit that gives you superpowers because of me, right? So, we're even, ya know? Like, just go rob banks in a city without a superhero, like go to Austin or something, and just like, take it easy. If you look at it that way, I've just given you an early retirement! When life gives you lemons, ya know?"
Unlike most versions of the character, who refer to themselves as "we" (i.e. both Brock and the symbiote), this version refers to himself as "I", implying that Brock is in total control of the symbiote and being evil of his own free will (as he even claims he enjoys being evil), though the symbiote did allowed Brock to do so after discovering within him the same negative personality traits that it brought out of Peter while the latter was under its influence. He does say "we" in the GBA version of the game adaptation, however. To prepare for his role as Venom, Topher Grace worked out for six months, gaining 24 pounds of muscle. He based his performance on alcoholics and drug addicts.
Actually, the original ending of the movie would've revealed that Eddie was dead basically from the moment that the symbiote got onto him at the church, and was merely puppeting his hollowed-out corpse. When Spidey tries to kill the symbiote by stabbing it with a metal rod, the symbiote would then reveal Eddie's fucked up and deformed skeleton. This was changed somewhat late into production because test audiences didn't like it, so I imagine the fact that Eddie said "I" instead of "we" was a holdover from the original ending. In that case, that meant that this Venom using "I" was going to be the hint that _something was wrong._
@@kiernanhowell-mackinley1733Tbh that's effectively disturbing and horrifying, but I prefer Eddie showing what Peter could be if he had the Power but no Responsibility instead of just being a flesh puppet. Also it's not consistent with stuff like framing Spider-man.
@Iiiiiiiii69iiiiiiiiii No, originally Sam Raimi wanted the movie to only have Sandman, saving Venom for another thing or perhaps not using him at all. But the popularity of Venom was such that executives forced him to include the character in the film regardless. As such, the movie is often criticized for having a very dense plot and underutilizing Sandman.
Oh yeah, that’s the point. Eddie is a complete sleaze with like no good traits; no self-awareness, intellect or remorse. This guy wanted to frame Spider-Man for robbing a bank so he could get the Bugle job before Peter and thought it would be a brilliant idea to edit one of Peter’s own photographs. He’s a pathetic man who would literally rather be blown up than be separated from the symbiote because it’s the only thing that made his life meaningful.
The Black Suit never changed Peter, it just brought his darkest desires to the surface. The way the PS5 game portrays it was perfect to me. You're hearing "Peter's" intrusive thoughts; but really the symbiote is speaking, and adapting itself. One thing that people don't understand is that the symbiote itself wanted to be a "hero," it wanted to be a better Spider Man. :/
@@XXMatt0040XX I like the Spider-Man 3 iteration way more. Venom is merely a parasite who doesn't have his own intentions and is therefore not a real character. He merely amplifies his hosts charactersitics overall. Peter in Spider-man 3 is not your ideal goody two shoes. He lets his fame and power go to his head and kisses another girl in front of his classmate. So when he gets the symbiote he just becomes more of an overall jerk. In the video game venom has his own intentions and plans. He bends the hosts will and minds and sets them to his own intentions. However this clears our boy Peter of any wrongdoings since it clearly was not him.
Peter: "Y'know, you keep saying I got you fired. What, uh… what were you fired for, exactly?" Eddie: "… I, um… I doctored one of your photos to make you look like a criminal." Peter: "Yeah. You see why I'd take issue with that?"
Venom was originally not planned to be in the movie as Sam Raimi wasn't initially a fan of the character, stating the character "lacked humanity" in comparison to the previous villains. Instead, he planned to have Vulture as the main villain of the story. However, he was pushed by Avi Arad to replace him with Venom, as he felt that the series was relying too much on Raimi's personal favorites instead of the villains that the fans like. That being said, fans disliked this iteration of Venom, particularly because Brock does not become Venom until towards the end. In other earlier scripts of the film, the Lizard and Electro were planned to be the antagonists, rather than Venom and the Sandman. The Lizard would later appear in The Amazing Spider-Man movie while Electro appeared in the sequel. Vulture also appeared as the main antagonist of the first Spider-Man movie from the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Misunderstanding of Venom aside. Having him out was the right call. There were too many antagonists in the film. Sandman, the falling out with Harry and then Venom. Plot was all over the place.
I mean obviously he lacked Humanity as Venom is a sentient goo like alien that feeds on others to survive. But lacking Humanity is not really a good reason to cut someone out as there can be evil for the sake of being evil as you don't always need villains that can be sympathized with. Just look at Skeletor from He-Man he is a fan favorite and his evil for the sake of being evil and even The Joker from DC comics is just evil for the sake of being evil there is no Humanity which is fine, but how they did Venom in the movie is just plain wrong. Venom is one of those things where to introduce him in the first half you have to set up then at the 2nd half either don't show him and wait for the next movie for him OR be only about Venom as again he is one of those things in movies you have to set up for
@Iiiiiiiii69iiiiiiiiii I think the story that was told with Sandman was much better than what they came up with for Venom. Honestly I'm tired of the symbiote arc being contained to one movie or game. Peter should spend a little more time using the suit. Having an actual arc and then you can contain a big movie for Venom's debut. Venom deserves better is what I'm getting at.
Avi Arad should have just let Sam Raimi do what he really wanted. He clearly was not into Venom and it showed in the quality of his work. Producers should not bend over backwards for fan service because they can see through it anyway. The result was a SM3 that was derided compared to the first two SM movies and killed any hopes of a SM4.
Eddie: "God, please kill Peter Parker. He easily exposed me as a fraud after I framed Spider-Man. He also went out with this girl I got coffee with this one time. He deserves death, God! Please!" TOAA: "Stop it. Get some help."
1:14 One of my favorite comic recons is that Deadpool found the symbiote in between Peter and Eddie, and Wade drove the living symbiote absolutely insane. It's canonically his fault it went from feeding off of a little aggression to becoming a complete batshit living slime monster 😂.
It's also Deadpool, who was never seen in Secret Wars 1984. I wouldn't call it canon, however I don't think it hurts. Personally, I prefer to think of the symbiote's "insanity" to be it's failure to understand humanity. There was never a "With good power comes great responsibility" moment for Venom (Eddie AND the symbiote.) Not until Dylan at least...
Its even worse in the comics, Eddie fucks up, takes no responsibility whatsoever, gets the symbiote and decides to get revenge on Spider-Man for capturing the real serial killer who Eddie reported was someone else without like... Any real evidence. He doesn't even know Peter Parker lmfao it's so petty
In contrast to his comic counterpart, who made an honest mistake by writing a false story from a poor source which got him fired (in which Spider-Man was indirectly responsible for debunking), the cinematic counterpart digs his own grave by deliberately publishing a false story with his own forged photos to slander Spider-Man, practically guaranteeing he was going to get caught eventually and fired, making his grudge against Spider-Man pettier and unreasonable.
I think the Spectacular animated series gave Eddie the best motivation to hate Peter. They grew up together and were like brothers, but Peter (as well as Spider-Man) was seemingly making selfish decisions that were negatively impacting Eddie and others in their lives like Gwen and Connors. Bonding with the symbiote and learning they were one in the same fueled his anger further and Venom was born.
@@SirsasthNigam. Yeah at least Comic Eddie's understandable and has one big redeeming factor: He does not want to just mindlessly slaughter. I don't remember when, but there's a point where Spidey shows that he really does put civilians first, showing that own (messed up) logic, Eddie rethought things
2:31 i like the callback to the green goblin video where he just says "i havent thought that far" after peter joins him and asks what theyre gonna do lol
1:48 - VENOM: "It's-it's just-I invested so much time in this." SPIDEY: "Buddy, it's probably been two or three hours at most since I had that suit and all you did since that time was recruit Sandman, make a giant web, and put my ex-friend-that's-a-girl's taxi on that web. And since you got my powers, you are able to web swing and shoot webs just like me. And this construction site was already here. So, it took you probably, what, three minutes to get everything set-up?"
Venom in the comics: Eddie claimed a man was guilty of murder, but Spider-Man unintentionally made Eddie seem incompetent and a poor source of information by capturing the real criminal. on that same day, his father disowned him and his girlfriend broke up with him because of the public shame, and then on top of that he learned he had cancer. Of course, Spider-Man isn’t responsible for any of that, but with all of that trauma packed onto each other it was easier for Eddie to blame Spider-Man than to face the fact he just had bad luck. Venom in the movie: “You broke my camera.”
Thank you! This is what people don't get. Venom NEVER was all about causing mindless carnage. He genuinely cared for innocents. CARNAGE was meant for that.
I’m surprised no one’s mentioning that Brock edited over on a picture Peter took. He just colored Spider-Man black and pasted it over the pictures he took with his second camera. It’s baffling he thought Peter wouldn’t recognize a photo of Spider-Man he took, especially since he’s the best photographer of Spider-Man in the city. It’s like removing the brand of a pair of shoes and saying you made them.
0:33 "Do you know hard it is to get a job these days?" Hmm... he actually has a point. Maybe not to take a life, but he does have an alien creature messing with his head, so...
I love how sandman sandman is conpletely morally consistent in his eye for an eye philosophy here. "Oh shit, I poked out your eye first? We're totally even then."
At all, god would never dare 2 kill anybody but he would dare 2 punish them in judgement 4 their actions, and peter is a kind and pure-hearted superhero who protects the city all the time so y would god punish him? Eddie is at fault here
- I mean what am I supposed to say? "Oh he was the evil Spider-Man, y'know the- the- y'know the other colored one" - The black one? - Yeah that's gonna be a f*cking nightmare man. My personal favorite part LOL
I didn’t realize how much of a PR nightmare it would actually be for Spider-Man, a New Yorker, to try and clean his image by saying “the only bad guy here is the black guy” Like, forget Jameson, the whole city is gonna roast him like it was thanksgiving day in the middle of summertime
I believe Venom made a point to not harm civilians actually, in the comics of course. If I remember right, it was when Spidey saved someone that he realized that he may have been wrong. Please keep the carnage for... well Carnage.
Eddie Brock's backstory in the comics was more relatable, and I actually don't think I could fully explain how they got the character wrong in Spider-Man 3, much less the entire situation between Eddie, Peter, and the symbiote. For one thing, he had cancer (ignoring the later retcon), and the symbiote was keeping him alive. There was a whole confluence of events that got Eddie fired, where he was pressured by the police into publishing his interviews with someone claiming to be the terrorist Sin-Eater, who turned out to be crazy, and the real Sin-Eater was discovered by Peter Parker, leading to Eddie being fired. His personal life fell apart as he went into a downward spiral while he was dying of cancer, and he was at the church praying for forgiveness and a way out when the Venom symbiote, which feeds on and boosts intense emotions, found him. In other words, it was much more than "I was fired for being corrupt, so I'm evil now."
To be fair, this movie just tried to do too much, 3 villains each with their own story, which tried to not only tie up the plot thread with Harry they had been stretching out for a few films, but added a whole new storyline by making Flint Marko (Sandman) the guy who shot uncle ben. We get a significant chunk of the movie showing how this version of the symbiote can mess with your head too. There was NO time to flesh out Eddie Brock. That is generally why this is the worst of the Sam Raimi spiderman films, trying to do too much.
As someone who had to do job searching for half a year to get away from my old job, let me tell you it's not easy to get a new job. Having skills in hardware tools, studying to be an electrician, and experience in group projects for the community in Boy Scouts, took half a year for someone to think I was good enough, and that was WHILE being already employed. I kept getting told my resume and background was exactly what businesses crave for, but if that was true then I guess many businesses just preferred to starve.
Honestly with everything Peter went through all these years, him quitting would be a blessing for the curse he’s suffered for decades & the people he lost.
It's really funny when you think about how there's a comic about the pov of Peter's villains and how they see him as the villain. The entire comic is just spider-man villains doing villain shit but they're all like "fuckin spider-man, you did this shit to me" while they're robbing banks and trying to cause as much collateral as possible
🎶Do you see banana man Hopping over on the white hot sand Here he come with some for me Freshly taken from banana tree (one, two, three, four)🎶 🎶Banana man me want a ton Give me double and a bonus one Give me more for all me friends This banana flow never end🎶 🎶Do you want a banana? Peel it down and go mm mm mm mm Do you want a banana? This banana for you🎶 - Banana Man by Tally Hall
2:41 man that would stop so much villains....like seriously you want me dead okay then I'm dead (faking their death at least) now what mr psycho? like what's the goal after that?
AVI ARAD has ruined so far... * Daredevil (2003) * The Punisher (2004) * Elektra (2005) * Fantastic Four (2005) * X-Men: The Last Stand * Spider-Man 3 * Bratz (2007) * Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance * The Amazing Spider-Man 2 * Ghost in the Shell (2017) * Venom: Let There Be Carnage * Uncharted (2022) * Morbius And now he's gonna ruin... * Borderlands * Kraven the Hunter * Venom: The Last Dance * Legend of Zelda * Naruto As long Arad lives, there's no hope
The reason Eddie wanted to kill Spiderman was because the Venom suit was actually the angry one. Venom was the one angry with Spiderman, and he portrayed that through Eddie. If you think of the story from it's perspective, it's an alien goo that was obsessed with helping Peter Parker, and making him happy (in whatever backwards way it could), only to get torn up and thrown away --literally. If you think about it, it isn't just a story of vengeance, it's about a toxic relationship. (Venom is the toxic one, to be clear)
To be fair, this is the LEAST sentient version of venom, every other version got to stick around long enough for it to be clear that it was a thinking being, and this one is proven to make its hosts aggressive (Doctor Conors figures that out while peter is in his dorky jerk phase) but there is no sign of it being more than animal level of smart. The original comic definitely had the dynamic you describe, with the caveat that Venom's species make a practice of dominating and wearing out hosts and then jumping to new ones, and Venom wanted a more mutualistic relationship. But after taking Peter's body for a joyride ONCE peter decides it has to go. Every version where venom makes peter do questionable things or influences him, is a change from the original, where peter overeacted (though to be fair I don't think he knew the suit was sentient, just alive, but I think trying to communicate with the alien should have come up first) and severely hurt it, and It had to latch on to Eddie Brock to survive, WHICH messed it up more because Eddie Brock was NOT in a good headspace. Venom tried to get out of a unhealthy family trend of abusive relationships, but make mistake and ended up a horrible codependent one.
Like the other reply said, this is not the true symbiote. But I don't care. Peter's got some of the blame, albeit he couldn't have known at the time. It's a toxic love triangle.... The Venom symbiote adapted to Peter. It's desires are Peter's own desires, but there is no humanity for the symbiote to understand. So you pair Eddie, who genuinely believes himself to be doing the right thing; with the symbiote, the natural conclusion is basically "Spiderman's a bad guy." Eddie Brock always assumed the worst out of Pete, until it was proven beyond doubt that Peter cares about people more than his own safety.
