Spider-Man: The Vulture is a Raimi Villain | Video Essay 

The Vulture was in the Spider-man 4 script, which includes the Vulture being Mary Jane's father. So the reason why the homecoming Vulture seems like a Raimi villain, is because he IS a Raimi villain.

Even ultimate, or dare i say amazing?

That speech *still* hits me in the feels every single time I hear it.

That speech *still* hits me right in the feels every time I hear it.

That editing was fucking amazing

😂😂😂

LMAO

Both of them: you know, I’m something of a terrible father myself

@@FullFatVideos do you think you can do a video for the MCU Spider-Man after he gets his third movie

@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 Umm..Umm...about that...

I'm kinda unconvinced it even was an accident tbh - OH this was the gravity gun was it? convenient.

Full Fat Videos yeah, if he didn’t pretend it was an accident, what would his crew think? They’d think he was a intentional murderer and they’d probably try to leave, something Vulture couldn’t afford. He HAD to pretend it was an accident

@@FullFatVideos I agree

@@FullFatVideos There is a deleted scene on the Blue-Ray where Vulture takes a moment outside to grieve after killing Shocker 1.0

I think the lack of anyone else giving a shit says a lot about Shocker.

Thanks for sharing this info. That line is sooo much better in context

I second the thanks for sharing this. I found the “working class” take to be borderline condescending. Not to say that there aren’t phrases that could operate as markers of class or upbringing, but this didn’t strike me as one of them, even without the context you explained.

@@mrsb50 I agree. It's literally emphasizing a threat. Adding the word "dead" digs it's way into the victims fears a little further. People fear death. Emphasizing their fear in a threat is a good way to make it stick, even it's just a reiterating what "I'll kill you" technically means.

Ik it's very cringe when people don't get it but think they do

I'm a little late but I do think it was more based on how the character talks, rather than a very specific reference or a dad joke. Maybe not for the "blue collar" part but it's in line with how the character speaks the whole movie

Agree with everything you just said

I hate the term 'one of'. One of what? One of 5? One of a hundred? One of a million? It's just stupid to me...

Quantum Fuzion Animations I mean fair enough but it’s not stupid. It’s “one of my favourites”, it’s similar to algebra. It’s just specifying my favourites is x amount. If I had a specific number I’d say my, for example, 4th favourite

@@qqqfuzion2582 sorry if you can't understand it

@@qqqfuzion2582 you know what I meant

What about venom? Did you give him a chance??? DID YOU!!??

Well it’s not like he wanted Venom

Pea Wea “I miss the part where Venom’s my problem.”

@@Djimbo You're trash Cyber.

Pea Wea I offered your friendship, and you spat in my face.

@James Sturm why do you hate it?

@James Sturm As he said in an interview, it was Dafoe's idea and he insisted to play more of the goblin himself (less double screen time) so he can add more personality and character touches to him. Very dedicated actor and one to admire especially at his age

Vulture's suit and weapon are stronger, but the Falcon has way more training and some useful gadgets like Redwing and those missiles. I think it would be a close call, with Falcon coming out on top.

Falcon hands down. More agile, more combat training, and most importantly an unwavering captain america like fighting spirit inside him

@@rhetiq9989 And a new shield!

@Eric Wu I think that The Vulture would win because his wings look a lot faster then Falcons so all he would really have to do is catch him from above then slam him to the ground. Falcons a regular human so it would most likely kill him.

@@misterproject8 I think we need to remember Falcon is both more versatile and flexible and built for combat. The vulture costume isn't actually meant for direct combat.

However, at the same time, those errors brought out feelings they've held the entire time. Norman saying "back to formula" before murdering the doctor mirrors when he quietly scolds him earlier with the same words. Otto's ambition for his goals and negligence for human life is shown when no one is given protective gear during his failed test, and how he yells at spiderman to not unplug the machine

@@braydoboss4090 and hits Spidey with his robot arms when Spidey tries to stop it.

@Christian Tompkins noo Osborne had a choice he had voices in his head he chose to go insane and doc oc had that chip Device on his neck the arms control his mind

@Christian Tompkins oh yeah u right I'mma re watch the movie bro

@RoxanneZ I love spider man's villains but they are other villians out there name it thanos , dr savantan from shazam , joker , hela etc that also have depth not just raimi's

Actually, yeah, you're right. His costume really is good.

@@PengyDraws One of the best powered suit designs I've seen in cinema.

@@thecrimsoncommando3875 Yeah, suits are usually so cheesy. Like female armor in videogames, brass bikini that needs plot armor to actually work. The functional suits are always a breath of fresh air.

Professor Duckford images you can hear

Seriously haha always makes my day

UrEAAAAA

I thought it was only 2099 Vulture who had cannibalistic tendancies.

@@thefroknight3149 I remember his Noir counterpart eating people too.

@@fiendwithoutaface6833 That was how Ben died in that universe

616 Vulture is not a cannibal

616 Adrian Toomes is not a cannibal Maybe your thinking about Jimmy Natale vulture or vulture from 2099 but the classic vulture is not that but is still a great villain for Spider-Man

Anyone else have the moment of clarity I did one day? Where after thinking about how great Keaton was and him doing another winged super hero and crushing it months later thinking about the filn again and realizing.........Vulture. And he picks the old tech lying around like a , goddam thats good writing!

Danny Benhur Fun fact: Raimi was going to use the Vulture in his fourth Spiderman film. I’m sure his characterization would have look like what we saw in Spiderman: Homecoming.

I’d argue Vulture was basically a more grounded and symphatetic Green Goblin, in that he became evil so that he could continue to provide for his family whereas Goblin just plainly went batshit and turned into a classic mass murdering supervillain without a reasonable goal in his mind after he exacted revenge against his business mates.

@@rhetiq9989 I agree with you...In fact Vulture is a good father...Goblin is worst father...

@@rhetiq9989 Green Goblin is a straight up Psychopath...In the Board room scene..where he says "YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED" it's clear that he is a psychopath...What makes Vulture more sinister that...he is Psychopath disguised as a Family man...As He didn't hesitate to kill Spiderman under the rubble..a kid of an age of his own daughter...infact a kid who saved his daughter..Vulture simply gives himself reasons to do bad stuff...kills "shocker in the name of feeding his family..Well his reason is more practical than Norman. But Vulture, just like Norman, simply finds a reason to kill...while Norman's insanity is visible...Vulture's insanity isn't visible on the surface...he seems to be family man...but he is just as crazy as Norman....in other words Norman is Evil Rich Murderer..and Vulture is a middle class family-man murderer...

@@Christ2010Grad And I heard that in Sam Raimi's version Adrian Toomes was Mar Jane's father or something, so Marvel basically took the idea from Raimi's script.

It appears you got you're wish.

@@omegavsrassilon5128 2 years later lol

You saw the future

He is

Yer a prophet, Harry!

didnt realize that lol

still one of the best final fights in a superhero movie

Something that a lot of superhero and action films miss nowadays. Even something like John Wick feels kinda meh in that department.

@@brianj4201 John wick has always been trash

@@infamous1403 Not surprising you would say that, seeing as how you’re a MCU fan.

I always thought goblin took advantage of a rookie parker who only became spiderman not too long ago. I always theorized that if norman went against spiderman 3 peter then he would only fare slightly better than harry and this is without the black suit. In the fight we saw peter unable to create distance and playing to the goblin's ground game which was superior. We also don't see any of the web balls or the web being used to manipulate the enviroment like we see during the end of the fight. Peter was unable to fight efficiency in cramp spaces as we see he is a lot more capable in spiderman 2 on the train and in spiderman 3 during the bank robbery. Notice how i didn't mention black suit parker.

yes exactly! nice comparison

You're right! That reminds me, it's strange that Cranston hasn't been in an MCU film yet.

@@troyjardine5850 Cranston as Dr. Doom?

You're goddamn right.

Imo Vulture was not selfish.

Glad you enjoyed it!

@@FullFatVideos i’ve been binging your videos last night, while i don’t agree with all your points, you put out a lot of good videos especially your Spider-Man 2/Whiplash one. that hit a little close to home.

legasy825 Join the club.

really appreciate your enthusiasm guys - gonna make sure its a doosey!

You now have mate... after 9 months...

isn't he aquaman's daddy tho

@@FullFatVideos And Vulture is Batman. It all comes full circle

@@_the_rizzler Mark Hamil also voiced the Joker, meaning it goes double circle

@@thatguywhosayshi7021 Woah, this is wild

Rent?

Me: Remember the Raimi Trilogy? The movie series you shot down in cold blood!? Sony: What does it matter to you anyway? *Train Horn* Me: EVERYTHING!

They were fun...Even if they're not great I still enjoy them

flapjackxl He’s producing horror films

drag me to hell was pretty good

also how does this hinder the spider-man raimi films quality anyway?

Imao

He produced the disaster horror movie, Crawl.

forever

@@FullFatVideos forever×2 sorry if that was cheesy

Yeah all THREE of them

The things I would do to get a Spider-Man 4 and have them properly wrap up the story.

Master Toomes, I must say you’re here sooner than expected

@Sebi idk man, I felt Parker learnt nothing

@laz kar What did he learn in Far From Home that he didn't in Homecoming already?

Nicolás Paradoja Mysterio is much more of an Emperor Palpatine type of villain, rather than a Vader one His motivations don’t have much meaning and his m.o. is exaggeratedly cruel but he’s so entertaining and fun it doesn’t really matter

@@nicolasparadoja1443 mysterio is an amazing villain. Wut u talking about? The whole reason Mysterio became so powerful was peters fault and he needed to take responsibility for it.

I think the problem with Mysterio is that his motivation is more connected with Tony than Peter. So Spider-Man is left to clean up Ironman's mess yet again. Peter goes through the same arc just like in Homecoming. Proving himself, when he already did that in the last movie. They gotta get off this "next Ironman" thing.

Are you the Asian dude

Creeperman129 :)

100%

The curious thing was that Toomes started out the movie trying to build something and then having it taken away before he could even profit from it, after already making the investment. Thus, not a parasite, but what his namesake is, is what he became. A scavenger.

Not really. Toomes wanted to do his work but was taken away from him because S.H.I.E.L.D. and Tony put themselves in charge of cleaning up which nearly ruined him.

@@night4345 In defense of Andrew Ryan, he also would have objected to the government swooping in to take it.

@@Justowner Andrew Ryan would have been on Toome's side. Overreaching government taking away a man's ability to provide for his family

Cl(ass)ic villain Corn of Coblin.

Grab that Gem.

Aha, a man of culture

It’s the opposite of Peter, just like a lot of other things about Raimis venom.

Blame Sony lol

Sony’s the issue, the Russo Brothers have blatantly said that the 8 years later was wrong.

civil war does indeed take place in 2016

Yeah, homecoming takes place in 2016 as it is 2-3 months after Civil War (which is around 4 years after the battle of New York)

4 years* Avengers takes place in 2012, and Civil War takes place in 2016. Homecoming takes place 2 months after. So it’s at most 4.5 years later (Infinity War(which takes place 2 years after this) clears this up with Tony saying “Thanos has been in my head for 6 years”)

I know right he analyzed the vulture perfectly there were some things I didn't know about him either even though I watch the movie and loved it

@@dcmarvelcomicfans9458 why are you in every spider-man or MCU video I've seen XD

@@tylerprime9555 first of all it's not your business second of all I'm not in everyone just in some

Kill-monger from Black Panther is also a sympathetic villain.

@@DimoB8 meh

@@xanderhoward2503 it’s true. He’s actually cool and relatable

@@Mr.Martin_0312 lol can't tell if that's sarcasm.

Y namor

It is, but not everyone likes it and they might get vocal about it

From what I understand people see the movie as a step in the right direction after Spider-Man 3 and the two Amazing Spider-Man films but not on the same level as Spider-Man 2 or Spider-Verse. So sort of a decent middle ground of it not being the best Spider-Man or MCU film but still an enjoyable one none the less.

I think some Spider-Man fans are skeptical of hc, but general superhero fans like hc

@@Deathlygunn i honestly don't get why people are praising Spider-verse, for me it was one of the worst movie experience - i literally almost walked out in the middle

@@kiriruro Why?

just STATING that mysterio is a villain is a spoiler bro. I haven't watched the movie yet!!

grandpagohan1 mysterio still being alive kinda takes away from the mid credits scene. Having Peter think he won and the threat eliminated, then mysterio’s last card is to frame Peter as a terrorist and reveal his identity is a way better ending than that not being his last card and him being alive is his last card. Idk, maybe it was LOKI that kinda ruined this. While it makes sense for both characters to fake deaths, we already saw it 50 millón times with Loki and we don’t need to see that again with mysterio.

@@dineshsivakumar6299 Haven't you figured it out? It was kinda of obvious.

@@elijahtriche6410 yeah. But even my brother that isn't a big fan of Spider-man figured it out.

@@dineshsivakumar6299 are you stupid or something?

"I am what you called me! I am the vulture!" "I called you a buzzard!" "What?" "You cant even get the name right!"

fax

They killed Spider-Man films for a good few years. TASM 2 was so bad it made people not want to touch them lol

For The first tasm film ,I agree with you but for the second one, it is pretty God awful

@@hemutitu1870 uP

I found it hard to sit through those movies a lot of parts were pretty bad.

thanks for watching my man!

@@FullFatVideos Anytime man!

Definitely. Between these two series spiderman probably has the best cinematic representations of a comic book rogues gallery that we've seen so far. Green goblin, doc ock, sandman, vulture, mysterio, hell even kingpin was fleshed out in daredevil. Even with all the batman movies the only ones they made land imo were catwoman and joker.

@@arthand7672 Agreed! I love that villains are getting as much love as our heroes!

@@Protocol36 I just love that they aren't just reusing the same villians over and over again. Not to keep disparaging batman, but how many live action jokers have we got? Two in TV shows, 3, soon to be 4 in movies? Three catwomen with a fourth coming in sirens? Same thing with superman always fighting zod or lex Luthor whenever they want to do anything with him. I love that even if you count the amazing spiderman films the only villain we see twice is harry Osborn's goblin. Plus they all have a twist that, at least in my opinion, makes them unique from their comic book counterpart and fit better on film without losing what made the character resonate. They even let mysterio keep his fishbowl!

I always saw it as a begrudging respect he saved his and his daughter’s life so he was trying to repay the favor

@@ryankeefe6222 I agree, I like the idea that the vulture ultimately wasn’t a *completely* horrible guy and ultimately didn’t want Peter dead since he saved his ljfe

@@arunnumapathy7003 part of me also also thinks the dad in Toombs came out a little bit and he recognized that Peter was a good kid

@@ryankeefe6222 uP

Not to mention the incredible scene where he figures out Peter is spidey. By far the most intimating dialogue considering Toomes was just a dude with a Glock threating a super strong superhero. More fear instilled in me than all the Raime villains combined.

@@jimbo4908 its because you didn't grow up with them. Id be more afraid of green goblin than toomes. Toomes would be scary if he actually had beaten peter up. Actually make him realize he is a kid in a world of supermen.

@@albertotorres7746 lol you basically just used because you dont have nostalgia argument. Sorry man but that's a weak argument for what you're trying to say. And I love the raimi villains just as much as the mcu villains

@@albertotorres7746 my dude. I was 10 when Raimi's Spiderman came out. And I can wholeheartedly say Toomes made me clench up at 27 than The goblin at 10.

Who do you guys think Is more likeable, sandman or vulture? They are kinda similar story wise In movies

that wasn't the point I was making dude

Yeah. I used to draw Sonic and Goku fighting

“When I was a kid, I used to draw cowboys and indigenous peoples.”

@@gadellomagnollo1810 art school admissions board didn't like those drawings though, huh?

@@stardustnation2480 too pc

a

I’m a Spider-Man fan, since I was able to read, and I loved Homecoming It captured perfectly the feeling of those earlier stories, the struggles of high-school, the lighter tone, and the looking up to other heroes

simonegreco well I’m not saying Spider-Man fans can’t enjoy it. I’m just saying that it’s understandable why a lot of strictly Spider-Man fans didn’t like the movie all that much.

Rain Man I’ve listened to some of their opinions and while I’m not saying you have to like this movie, most of these people are just close-minded when it comes to HC and MCU Spider-Man in general, specifically to the Tony/Peter relationship

@@simonegreco1958 I first read that as "clone minded" and I feel that is just as true. They just parrot what others say.

That's because Raimi set the standards. But MCU must be given their due credits.

Thank you bro x

we have a table right over here for you sir

Yep, agreed. Mysterio was good, but Vulture was amazing. But Far From Home was a lot more enjoyable for me.

Too Superior 2.0 Disagree, I like that Mysterio was not as sympathetic as the Vulture.

@@Christ2010Grad a villain doesnt need to be sympathetic to be good

alfa01spotivo I agree with you. A three dimensional villain doesn’t need to be sympathetic. Mysterio wasn’t as sympathetic as the Vulture, but I enjoyed him more.

Too Superior 2.0 I agree, homecoming has a better villain and slightly better humour while far from home has better action and story. Overall, I think far from home is better but there both great

Especially how they were able to make Osborne's relationship to MCU Spidey a very personal one.

PeTeR TiMe

FFV hangs around in circles that deify Raimi and said Raimi fanboys hate Tom Holland/TH's Spider Man

"hangs around in circles"

@@FullFatVideos social circles?

Watch the reviews, you will learn

Thanks dude!

the situation hela arose from is morally complex but she herself really isn't imo. she was a colonizer's weapon of war, then when she comes back she wants to reinstate that operation after centuries of historical revisionism. the complex part is moreso what that revelation means for thor and asgard as a whole.

@@AngryGodzillaBirds1 Yeah, I agree, but at the same time raimi's villains weren't all that morally complex either. They were portrayed as corrupted - 'possessed' by evil, but with some good part still inside. Like Vader. Remember when Lucas stole raimi's villians to make star wars?

I get the nostalgia people feel, but raimi's villians weren't special. They were externally motivated to the point of cliche. 'why is ___ evil?' 'oh, because the symbiote/the ai/vat of acid/etc.' Notably, those motivations don't need their own explanation. Vulture was internally motivated. Remove the wings, his motivations remain the same. He's 100% an MCU villain. For context, I grew up on Schumacher's batman. Loved them when I was a kid, but the best thing about them was the lens of childlike wonder I viewed them through.

eh i disagree. Tom like Andrew is too happy go lucky and jokey, he doesnt change much when he's in the suit. Tobey balanced it perfectly

The Raimi trilogy dis set the standard for superhero films, which is embracing the fact that heroes are stupid escapism fantasies and run with it in a way that makes the genre's ridiculous aspects a positive thing, it's the recipe the MCU has followed and it worked well. Other superhero movies like X Men were ashamed of the source material and actively avoided the cheesiness, it's why Wolvernine never wore the custome in any of the movies. The Dark Knight trilogy can hardly be called superhero movies honestly, they're actually police dramas that happen to have a ninja wearing a bat custome as the protagonist. That doesn't mean they're bad at all, if anything they stand out more because they deviated from the norm. The Dark Knight trilogy's prescedent that superheroes would be dark & gritty didn't last long, just take a look at Fant4stic and most of the DCEU, those movies tried too hard to be dark and came out as edgy egdelords.