When the series first started, and was first named, the cars were literally street legal, and most of the time, right out of the showroom. And from 1948 to the mid 1980's the cars were actual road cars that were dismantled and built to race spec. Not the purely fabricated cars they run today.
What are you talking about? I'm 17 and this Viper has some of the sexiest lines I've ever seen on a car. They nailed a perfect balance between looks and functionality.
We need to go back. NASCAR was Trans-Am with much larger cars. Don't worry. If you were thrilled by Semi-truck racing, large coupes and sedans racing on a road course will not be a such big deal. Trans-Am used smaller cars, no ovals (well maybe their in-field courses), and was more open to global competition.
There's also the issue of the cars NOT being the cars they say they are. That Fusion is NOT a Fusion. That Camry is NOT a Camry. That Impala is not a Lumina. Plus, to use the line "back in the day", the cars you saw were the cars you could buy, stripped and equipped for racing making the link between racing and driving relevant and tangible. Also I think NASCAR races scheduled 1/2 road courses during their seasons in the 1950s-60s.
He is right when he says that NASCAR is not real racing. It isn't; plain and simple. As a young American, I think the Dodge move to "real racing" is great. It has more direct influence than NASCAR to their product, it promotes the SRT division in the league of Lotus and other companies that quite frankly are "more hip" than Dodge, and it makes watching an American style automobile race tolerable due to lack of neverending left turns. Dodge needs an image that involves pedigree.
I follow 5 drivers in NASCAR. I like to see how they are doing throughout the race. I grew up in Colorado Springs, and have seen at least 15 Pikes Peak hill climes. I went to one NASCAR race and was sold. I'm not saying I'm right, but I can see the massive benefit of an oval over a circuit track as a spectator. I also like to watch were the race is won and lost; and that is in the pits.Moreover, the cars are as close to equal as they can be, so it's the crew and the driver that wins races.
I think this is a genius business move by Chrysler. Focus the racing development on sports that the younger generation enjoys, and build a new brand image among those of us who didn't own a '90s fall-apart-mobile.
NASCAR is already partnering up with DTM to run a US-DTM championship in 2013. Half the races will be partnered with Grand-Am weekends and the other half with NASCAR weekends.
I thought the same for a while, but this guy is smart, educated, and knows how to drive. You are none of the above. Leo, ignore comments like you get from that guy.
I love the Aussie V8 series, but why should NASCAR evolve into something like that? There are countless racing series around the world that run full-bodied cars on street and road courses. And those series are (for the most part) also less endurance based than NASCAR. As a fan of just about all types of motorsports, I applaud NASCAR for sticking with a unique type of racing, regardless of the criticism of so called "true" racing fans.
Gravity fueling is easier because it requires less equipment, which cuts costs. Gravity fueling is also very fast. NASCAR Cup Series cars gravity fuel 18 gallons (split between 2 fueling tanks) in less than 13 seconds. in comparison, the pressurized systems for LMP1 endurance cars fuel 16 gallons (73 litres) in 15-17 seconds.
Leo. Long time watcher, first time commenter. Keep these SHAKEDOWN vids coming, I watch em every week. A very unique source for insightful info that goes beyond the regular soundbytes and superficial analysis of the racing/automotive scene. Well done sir!
Ok, but I'm saving this conversation to use against other people that talk shit and then act all surprised when someone doesn't like them. Keep telling yourself you are awesome, see how far that gets you.
Dodge leaving NASCAR is no big loss. The Charger is still right for Dodge, as is Challenger. However, both cars could stand a goodly amount of streamlining and lightening. FIAT/CHRYSLER wants to play up RallyCross, ALMS, and Grand-Am, add Trans-Am to that. The Viper gets Grand-Am and ALMS. The Dart gets RallyCross. The Challenger gets Trans-Am. Support customer race cars and play up these series. No one will honestly blame Dodge for leaving NASCAR.
Viper SRT in Le Mans and even the Dart in Rallycross is SO MUCH cooler than the crappy cookie-cutter cars in Nascar. I mean they have been using the same car in Nascar for over 25 YEARS now, they only thing that changes is just the outer sheet metal, they need to start integrating more tech and add more interesting tracks like Laguna Seca, Road America, ect.
I was at Mid-Ohio and got to check out both versions of the car. The race version is good looking and as a race fan, I'm looking forward to watching them compete (after they get rid of that ridiculous 8l engine). The street version looks nice but the fit and finish on the car leaves a lot to be desired, especially at that price point. I think Dodge is in good hands after seeing the Fiat CEO interview on 60 minutes. I applaud them going against convention in their marketing efforts.
If Dodge wants to get a younger crowd, they need to make a smaller, more nimble version of the Viper. Something that the under 40yr/ city crowd would be proud to drive. I'm 35 and from NYC and I wouldn't be caught dead in the Viper. In big cities, a Viper is seen as a tacky Vette. How about making a smaller Alfa/Fiat version with a turbo Alfa 3.0 V6 engine. Imagine a car that's the size of a Z4, but looks of the updated Viper (with the above mentioned engine) and an Alfa badge.
Well said Leo! Selling racing cars is definitely the way forward for boosting road car sales and taking the edge off of the cost of motorsport activities while scouting for the best teams and talent that should/deserve to receive factory backing. BMW, Porsche and other manufacturers have done this. At the last SEMA Honda showed a factory stripped car with a few basics like a starter engine, upgraded brakes, cage etc. and Toyota plans to do the same with the new 86 in Japan for a one-make series.
Tell that to Mini. Tell that to BMW. Tell that to the Prius. Tell that to Audi. Tell that to VW. In the city, STYLE and panache are more important than function. In NYC, San Fran, Portland ect. one buys a car because you WANTS a car, not because one NEEDS a car. A characterful car with a compelling and authenticity "story" behind it, (and nicely equipped for $25Kish) will be a monster hit in cities. (Just look at the Mini and the Prius).
If you buy a car because of what others think, you are doing it wrong. It's about how it makes you feel when you drive it. I have and RX8. Some love it, some hate it. Even had a Prius owner tell me she hoped I died in it. I bought it and still love it for one main reason. They way I feel when I slide into a corner, side bolsters hugging me as I am being pushed by the G forces. The way the power builds as the RPMs climb and the satisfying pop from the exhaust as I catch the next gear.
Penske is doing just like they did back in Indycar in 98, pulling out Mercedes engines and going w/ Honda power even after helping Mercedes win the engine manf championship. They knew something is wrong w/ Dodge and went with their best option.
A tacky corvette? You are the only person that ever said that. Vipers are awesome shock and awe cars. Corvettes are good from far far from good. Quick for the first 200 yards before it falls apart.
Dodge spending more on advertising then on R&D? that seems to me to be the way a lot of US auto makers seem to do it, If they just build a better car and let the "proof be in the pudding " rather then use flashy ad campaigns we would have better cars all around, on the street & on the track. Keep up the good work Leo. I hope SRT fixes their handling problems but thats been OUR problem with cars for decades. The stoplight to stoplight performance over Driving and handling.
NASCAR should consider implementing other cars and makes from the overseas market. They should also change their regulations and set restrictions to make the race cars more relatable to the road cars, to gain more attention from the fans. They could also have several categories of performance to increase the appeal the sport worldwide
Eh. I remember watching an interview with the Chrysler CEO where he described the direction of Chrysler, and it boiled down to the direction of success. In racing, the objective is to win in a hard sport, and Le Mans series would be a great example.
I don't like how you call the Viper a tacky Vette, but I do agree with you that Chrysler should make an SRT mini-Viper. Subaru and Scion have BR-Z/FRS, and there is the Hyundai Genesis. SRT should have a compact, lightweight coupe. They should have most in their parts bin now. Hell, they could do the same as the Genesis, offer a turbo 4 cylinder and a V6. And yes, have similar Viper styling, another model with that styling could reinforce the SRT brand and give it recognition.
Whatever you guys think of him on a personal level, this guy knows what he's talking about and that's all that matters in my opinion. Leo; Haters gonna Hate - Keep on doing what you're doing.
With any luck this will open NASCAR's eyes that they may want to consider running something closer to what the manufactures are using on the street. If the cars were closer to what i could go buy from a dealer showroom floor, I'd be more interested in NASCAR. When Big Bill first opened the doors for the "Cup" series it was "STRICTLY STOCK". Meaning you had to run what you sold in the dealerships. That formula has been effective around the world. GO BACK TO IT NASCAR!!!
Great move by Dodge. Shifting investment to more exciting and relevant racing formats may help Dodge establish a sportier image among consumers. The new Viper looks like a great car, but Dodge needs to do more in the mid-market segment...the 4000-5000 lb Challenger isn't doing it.
Dodge is now an international brand. America is an island unto itself, NASCAR must go global. That, and the cars that are dependent on a big, rear-wheel drive patforms are not global cars.
Oval tracks are used so the viewers at the track can see the race. Circuit tracks sucks when your at the track. That is the only reason why they use ovals. They do have circuit track races, but i do not want to see one corner all day.
Here's to hoping that SRT can get the GTS-R competitive. I've heard BMW is leaving ALMS. It could be an awesome match-up, C6-R vs GTS-R. We really need ALMS to switch to FIA GT3 regs so the SLS and MP4 can come over here. It would be too cool to have factory backed programs for Porsche and Ferrari as well. Get the programming back on Speed Channel live!!!
News to me. Will check it out. Dodge implied that in Nationwide + trucks, they would support private teams [eg- parts?]. So, there may be cars out there. But, they announced pulling out of Sprint and Nation..... In Sprint Cup, I would be shocked to see any Dodges, especially with the new cars [and there is no old car grandfather rule, right?]. "So, waht are you talking about?" !!
Good show, Leo. I am glad DCX is moving out of Nascar and into other racing organizations; where they can show more of what their "production" like vehicles and drivers can do, and not just a place where almost everyone is on the same level.
Everyone seems to be moving to world sports classes instead of regional divisions. Companies tend to be regionally divided with car manufacture and distribution. How many awesome cars from Ford and GM have never reached the US market? NASCAR is an America only thing (mostly.) People are seeing more from around the world online, their tastes are changing, and they're seeing just how cool racing is around the world. Companies have to adapt to survive, become world brands instead of just EU or US.
Its a shame to see dodge leave a motor sport that they have such a long history with. Especialluly considering they put the effort into having a 2013 car mocked up. I think they'll go back to it in '14 though. They just werent prepared for this year. Then again it sounds like they werent really prepared for ALMS either. Who knows.
Not noob. FIA WEC 'Le Mans' regs do say 5.5L limit. Welcome 2 the world of waivers! But, remember Viper is ALMS-only competition right now. However, Riley's been sitting in on all FIA / ACO tech mtgs. Whether it's an all-over waiver or like Corvette did - a 1yr exempt before going to the 5.5L, we shall see. Was just told the air-restricted 8L V10 can only turn 5000 rpm before running out of breath. Imagine the revs a destroked 5.5L V10 could turn. Was a question I wanted to ask Ralph Gilles.
Nice article, Leo. I'm listening. To me, the disconnect between what's on the track and what's on the street is the reason I don't find NASCAR interesting enough to devote any time to it. There's just too much other "real racing" available. If I'm watching race cars that don't have a street legal version, they'll be something very different, like Formula One.
NASCAR refuses to see it, but the further they strayed from any relevance to the street cars they claim to represent, the more the fan base just said to themselves "oh, come on..." To some degree the entry of Toyota into the fray, considering that a V8 rear-wheel-drive car was never what Toyota was about, hurt the credibility even more (amongst some; most of us stopped paying attention decades before that point). There is prob a huge market for actual show-room stock-car racing if they'd do it
If you think that the ALMS GTE class should switch to GT3 regs then you really don't understand enough about racing to be commenting on something like that.
There is only one thing I dislike about Shakedown, and that is those teleprompter-read, prepared speeches with built-in jokes and candor. It just feels... forced. You are a guy who knows what you are talking about, Leo, and in my opinion you should let go of some of the "over-preparedness" :)
TO ALL YOU that hate my hosting / voice / hands / etc., consider this. I am the guy that researchs, writes, and formats this show. It's not like I am some hack, reading someone else's work. If you want me gone as the host, you lose the content. And maybe that works for a certain group of ADD drift-happy RU-vidrs. But, I'm hoping YOU commenters are a minority. Besides, you can always just watch the other /DRIVE shows. Please.
They're gonna end up spending money on a viper that the mass public will never see. No one in America (except for us few) watches road racing and that's the truth. Leo said dodge isn't a global brand so why are they trying to get into a global sport. To me its a simple math formula now. ALMS fans over NASCAR fan which (lets be honest) is a ration of around 1:32 times that by the money you spent in NASCAR and that's whats justifiable to spend in ALMS.
As for NASCAR, i guess the changes they have made have come too late (McLaren fuel injection, chassis specs). People are not following it anymore (assuming the TV rating estimates are true). As for Dodge/SRT, I have mixed feelling about it. On the one hand, the Charger belongs in NASCAR; I don't see it being competitive anywhere else. On the other hand, the Viper was a world sports car. In the end, it makes little difference to me.
Wow! Even NASCAR fans are getting tired of watching guys going around in circles! I agree with goford90 about NASCAR evolving more into something like V8 Supercars! Racecars "actually" based on real cars driving on real racetracks that turn both ways!
great Great GREAT episode, I wish Leo had enough time to do all motorsport news. It's great to get news followed by an educated opinion in the same place.
well Mercedes said the other week there not joining v8 supercars and i think Chrysler said the same thing as well, but now that they have pulled out of NASCAR.....who knows
Sergio Marchionne has really turned things on their head at Chrysler. NASCAR is a complete money pit and gets you 0 return on investment. No fan goes out and buys a dodge just b/c they won Martinsville. ALMS is a much better investment, and Leo makes a great point at the end about them selling customer cars vs spending loads of money to participate in NASCAR. Stop spending money to be a part of a dying series and go make money selling street and customer cars. Great business model.
viper should make only very few vehicles and also special editions like a lighter, faster, srtipped out version of its self like ferrari and lamorghini make
I'm glad their leaving nascar. Now they can put more money & resources into the SRT viper racing program. As well as other progams that are more relevant. Which in nascars case is everything else.
I don't think my choice in buying a car is at all influenced by which car does well in NASCAR. I think the Dodges are much cooler that the Fords, Chevys or Toyotas. I'd buy almost any Dodge over a car from any of the other brands. The current Charger R/T is badass. That said I can't buy any of them because I'm a 21 year old college student with no money.
Those Dodge NASCAR's look good too. I find it funny that the time all the cars get a more production look one of the big three pulls out. (There's a dick joke for you.) A set of Bassett wheels and a mild bodykit should achieve the look.
