I can say with confidence that the reason Millie won over Urinetown in 2002 was because most audiences in a post 9/11 New York favored the nostalgic, light-hearted musical comedy over the dark-toned, witty political musical.
I have to admit Wicked has aged better as a show, but that's just it - in that year, Avenue Q best exemplified THAT YEAR. It represents the culture and the time it was created for and what people needed in that moment, which is almost a better reason to give it the award. Lists of Best Musicals can read like a journey through time.
Oh gosh, I’m so glad you did the rewind on Nathan Lane’s reaction! He was totally shocked… thanks for revealing that!! Love your narration! So informative and funny. 😅♥️
2004 was one of the greatest years in modern Broadway musical history. I think it's very worth noting that Assassins (competing as a revival) actually won the *most* Tonys that year, five of them. Including Best Director for Joe Mantello (who also directed Wicked but wasn't nominated for it), Best Revival, Best Featured Actor in a Musical, Best Orchestrations, Best Lighting.
Let me tell you something: in my sleepy little swedish city we absolutely do not have access to world class musicals, and I certainly have never been to New York, let alone set my foot on broadway. So I truly did not know how much I would enjoy deep dives like this and now that I’ve watched every single one of yours I wanted to show my appreciation, say thank you and also tell you that I want moooore! 🥰👏🏻 You have a really kind vibe and you make these videos with such style, care and aplomb. Your love of musicals and Broadway is infectious and every one of your videos is interesting, even to me as a total outsider. Shit who knows I might just go to New York after all 😌
That's very kind of you. Thank you and so glad you enjoy the channel. I'm taking a couple weeks off from writing while I travel, though I have my books and research with me for the next phase of content. X
I saw Avenue Q, Wicked, and Caroline or Change on Broadway that year. Personally I kind of forgot all about Wicked soon afterward. I bought the Avenue Q soundtrack and loved it for a time, but its "being PC is overrated!" comedy didn't age well, and the soundtrack didn't really offer much more on repeated listens. Caroline, or Change, though... I still return to that show now and again and discover new treasures in its lyrics, music, and performances. That show deserves WAY more recognition.
I've spent the past 6 hours binging your videos and I must complement you on the great production value and comprehensive detail included in all of your subjects. I have to walk my dog now or he's gonna be hostile with me! 🎉
Wow, thank you for this video! The tony awards have had loopholes or unexpected winners throughout their years. I think avenue q over wicked is the most notable. Here are some in my opinion that were pretty unexpected, or big errors: Will Rogers Follies over Miss Saigon, Music Amn iver West Side Story, Two gentlemen of verona over Follies, and spamalot over light in the piazza. There are also some years that had big competition, like 1998, and 1988
I’m lukewarm on Wicked, but it’s marketing campaign was kind of amazing. I remember seeing an ad for it in the previews at a movie theatre. No wonder people were shocked to see it lose. It was everywhere.
I am a fan of an award that can serve as an economic 'equalizer' blunting some of the inherent advantages of a huge production and advertising budget, and yes, as a bit of a loose cannonball running havoc with expectations and predictions. Surprises on Tony or Oscar night are of themselves, a nifty side benefit to the existence of an award. Its a really dull night if everything goes according to plan.
Both of these shows deserve an equal amount of recognition. In fact, they probably will get into the medium that they were originally developed for, as Wicked was supposed to be a movie, and it's getting a film adaptation soon. I think if Avenue Q could be something similar, it should finally become a TV show, ostensibly a more successful Wonder Showzen.
Both musicals deserved to win, and it's just bad luck they debuted the same year. I really don't like the "vote with your heart" line they kept shoving, though. That makes it sound like Avenue Q is just intrinsically better than Wicked, which honestly, it isn't. Avenue Q had one of the most talented casts ever and some great production, but it does boil down to one joke stretched over 2 hours.
I have to agree tbh. I don't like the idea that Avenue Q wins if you vote with your heart. What about the young kids/teens and young adults who genuinely love Wicked, even to this day? Are their hearts somehow wrong? It's bad campaigning and they basically "bought" their Tony's.
First of all, ‘Thank You’ Kevin for these wonderful videos of yours! They are greatly appreciated! Ethan I saw all the shows nominated that year excepting THE BOY FROM OZ (and let’s not forget TABOO which basically was shut out that year) and could not understand why AVENUE Q (aka The Dirty Puppet Musical) could have possibly won over WICKED. Or why Joe Mantello would win as Best Director for ASSASSINS instead of WICKED, for which he wasn’t even nominated. And why the ‘Perpetual Bridesmaid’ Stephen Schwartz would again loose for Best Score to that trite puppet show? I do know many people thought Kristin Chenoweth should have won in the less showy role of Glinda, truly the anchor of WICKED, because her character demonstrates true change. In the end, it’s the old argument of ‘apples to oranges.’ It’s all about opinion and individual taste. God bless Broadway!
Avenue Q can take best book (because Wickeds writing isn't really the best) , but Stephen Schwartz should have won for Score because the songs of Wicked defined a generation and is embedded in mainstream pop culture now.
@cate3534 I would argue that isn't true. This is purely anecdotal but I know people who have never been to a show before, who don't like musicals, who couldn't name a single show running on Broadway right now who are at least familiar with the music from wicked. That is just not true for Ave Q. The Internet is for porn just isn't nearly as well known as or for good, which I've heard sung at graduations and people don't even know it's from wicked. They just think it's a song that coral directors like or something.
I always thought that the Wicked soundtrack sounded like it had been written by a focus group. every song felt like it had been written to be successful with an audience, instead of to advance the plot and express the author's artistic vision. Avenue Q definitely has flaws, but sounding manufactured isn't one of them.
First, excellent video. I found your channel with your Funny Girl videos and I'm glad that I checked out your other videos. Second, I wish these musicals had been in different years. Unfortunately, they had to compete. Personally, I'd have given best score to Wicked. But I think its book is lacking, so I'd give Avenue Q best book. Idk about best musical. That said, Avenue Q rubs me the wrong way re: their marketing campaign. It feels very "bought" because they went directly to the Tony voters. I also think their campaign leaves a bad taste in my mouth, because it implies all the hearts who loved Wicked are "wrong" and false because apparently only Avenue Q wins if you voted with their heart. Which I found very BS and distasteful. But both musicals had their success. Wicked is one of the biggest hits of all time. Avenue Q found success on Broadway and off Broadway, too. Both did well, both had a good run (and Wicked still has a good run), so no hard feelings, IMO.
As I understand it, Tony voters felt betrayed after awarding "Avenue Q" Best Musical, as the comparably low budget musical contracted to appear in Las Vegas for a year, precluding out of town theatre owners and producers national tours until the Vegas run ended.
Wicked should have won, hands down. Better score, better book. To this day people write it off as a basic pop musical popular with teenage girls and I think that does the show a disservice. It's a wonderful piece and deserves all the praise and success it's seen.
Avenue Q is, without a doubt, one of my top 3 favorite musicals of all time. I saw Wicked pre-Bway, in SF and I love Schwartz (I saw and loved The Magic Show) but Q was perfect!
@@audramcdonaldapologist3676 what? How it views racism? Do you not understand the mirror it holds up to society to force the audience to deal with racism - but using music and humor? smh 🤦♂️
Wicked's songs are epic, which generates great vocal performances, but the story is garbage. Avenue Q hits you in the heart, and it's 1000 times funnier.
I absolutely adore 'Caroline or Change' and wish it received better accolades. However, it was a show with quite a bit of thematic material and that wasn't the kind of show that people were wanting to see in the early 2000's. Between Wicked and Avenue Q, Avenue Q deserved to win the Tony hands down.
I saw WICKED a few years ago and hated it. Overstuffed, over-produced & I couldn't care for any of the characters. Avenue Q was hilarious and has a melodic and very funny collection of songs. It deserved the awards it won.
Here's a quick answer: Avenue Q is a better musical. (It's the same reason why Music Man won over West Side Story). I confess I knew someone who, when he told me he had invested in a musical prequel to The Wizard of Oz, I thought, "A fool and his money are soon parted" LOL.
And now, Wicked is still running, joined the very small Billion Dollars Club (only the third show to do so), and is being played worldwide. I think time is still the ultimate test to tell which one is “the best”.
I understand what you're saying but context of what these wins actually mean is important to consider. The Tony's are all about money and marketing shows and only circumstantially intersect with what is actually the "best". Show like "Band's Visit", "Gentlemen's Guide", "Millie", and "Passion" all won Best Musical and probably a boost at the box office while other shows that were also nominated in their respective categories that year outlived them. "Avenue Q" was always the little show that could and while it did eventually close on Broadway, it still had an extraordinary life, one that shows smaller shows should at least be given a chance from producers and audiences alike in a huge commercial setting like Broadway.
