You forgot to mention that Mary Wilson praised the film after seeing it at the LA premiere, saying, "It's closer to the truth than they even know." Reading that statement now, it makes me wonder how much hell she went through during her time as a Supreme.
Actually it didn't kill plans for her book to become a film.Mary Wilson was with Lifetime to do a film on her book, she said the major issue was they wanted her to throw Diana Ross under the bus and she simply refused to do so.
Excellent analysis! Thank you for this. As a little Black girl in the early 1980s, Dreamgirls was HUGE in major cities across the U.S. I recall the radio and TV advertisements for it in Chicago and hearing about it them gave me goosebumps. I got goosebumps watching this video, as I was transported 40 years back to when the musical Dreamgirls was a very big deal and very important many Black Americans.
As entertaining as the film was, it drove me crazy that it laid into the Supremes angle instead of letting Dreamgirls be its own story. And there were too many cuts of the stage material, which I get for the time, but still no Heavy with Hudson, Beyonce and Rose? No Ain't No Party for Rose? Unforgivable.
Cutting Lorrell's big number along with her belty moments was definitely a mistake. It seems like her role was cut down to build up Deena and Effie's roles. Even recent productions have nods to The Supremes that the original one didn't. What made the stage show great it is mostly sung. There were moments that had a spark onstage that fell flat in the film.
Baby listen! When I found out about the heavy heavy Broadway song version and how they went into more detail I was like wow! Because it answered my questions which were WHY DIDN’T Deena say anything when confronted by Effie.. and she did through that song… they should have included that in the film version it would of added more depth AND would have added to the drama and just been overall better
to give it racial contextual history that’s why it’s laid out into a supreme angle because black working class people in the Midwest that had just moved up from the white supremacist, success in music and other art venues during the 1920s to late 1970s due to the great migration that’s why don’t totally discredit that part but have a good one
It should be noted that Effie died originally. This was one of the things Holliday objected to. It also drew the plot closer to the Supremes. Thankfully Bennett et al saw fit to rework that particular plot element prior to its presentation to the world at large. I look forward to whatever title you'll be looking at next.
I remember being a little girl and seeing the commercials for the Broadway play. Then I remember my mom had the book and I read it. Such a gd book I had always wished I could have seen the original play.
Like every other little black girl in the early 2000s, Dreamgirls was a must-watch; so monumental and iconic. I really wish the original 1980's broadway play was available for viewing somewhere bc I neeeeed to see it. Thank you for this analysis! ☆
As a person who grew up watching the DVD movie of Dreamgirls, It has been such an inspiration since I grew up, Now I'm 18, and truly can say that Dreamgirls is my Favorite Musical!!
Dreamgirls was such a magical time in my life circa the making of the 2006 film! The IMDB message board was the place to be and the producers would frequently interact with us dropping bts insights, drumming up hype and eventually free tickets to advance screenings! Those same producers also went radio-silent when they didn't get the Best Picture nomination at the Oscars, after baiting fans who were less than pleased with the film after its release. The drama. And that is Dreamgirls: melodrama set to an (almost) r&b beat. Still, as chaotic as 2004-2006 was on that message board, I also learned so much about music history, Motown, Broadway and Hollywood! It was thrilling. And what I didn't know, you filled in those spaces beautifully. The musical is iconic for a reason but not infallible, yet the narrative is stronger than what is in the film. The movie is too slick and the acting (save Murphy, Foxx and Rose) is amateurish and distracting. The music is the saving grace to the film and The Underdogs the mvps. If you know, you know. A movie could be made about the making of the movie! And how it rhymed with so much of what happened with creating the original show. But it's loved. It's close to the 1987 The Color Purple to being a seminal work in black culture. That's powerful. That's Dreamgirls. And yes, the producers regretted cutting "Ain't No Party". They didn't know how well Anika Noni Rose was going to test in those first screenings so it was never filmed, though that's what she used in her audition that landed her the role. Showbiz.
@32:00 when he says it’s not about a fat girl vs a skinny girl.. it’s not true.. there are interviews where they would call Florence the fat supreme… it was so sad how she was treated in real life. She died heartbroken
Informative and educational as always. One thing I really appreciate about your writing is how deliberately measured and empathetic your takes are, noticeably avoiding the cattiness that seems to colour lots of musical theatre history. Thanks for the care you take with each subject!
As someone who watched the movie as a child and it become my favorite movie I do agree about the whole Deena thing. Beyonce did perfectly with restraining herself during the screen tests, yet in the movie it’s thrown out the window and Deena is belting all the time. Which is jarring 😭 Apparently the original Dreams (Sheryl and Jennifer) weren’t allowed around the actors. But I feel like it Sheryl Lee Ralph was able to tutor Bey on Deena, the portrayal would be more faithful.
I love love love the Supremes and I absolutely love Dreamgirls…..I know every song from both of them and I don’t care how close to real life it is, it’s amazing. I found myself even looking up the original play in broadway. Knowing the story of the Supremes and Flo (Ballard), I too wish that they had a reunion with true understanding at the end like Dreamgirls. RIP Mary and Flo❤❤❤
I was an usher when Jennifer Holliday, starred in Dreamgirls in 1983 in Los Angeles at the Schubert theatre. I can tell you there is no comparison between Hudson and Holliday. No one comes close to singing this song the way Holliday's does. Holliday owns this song.
One of the issues I had with the film, was that it wanted to be a musical... but not THAT much of a musical. The stage show is almost through sung, not many book/spoken scenes, and the film changed alot of the songs to spoken script instead and all the songs were done in a performance setting. Until they get to 'Family'. Suddenly they start singing to each other in a dressing room, as they do in the stage version. Even someone like me who loves a musical was confused by the sudden change. If they had committed to it being a musical at the start, it wouldn't have been so noticible, but also i suspect, it would have have lowered the box office takings.
The 2000 supremes reunion tour was every fans dream come true !!! I was prepared to fly anywhere in the world to see them live !!! But miss Ross scuppered that one !!! Fortunately i got to see Mary and meet her on her last tour of the uk .what a class act in every way.
@jonsa270 with her demands over money , billing and stage costumes.!!! Mary and Cindy walked away and didn't want to be involved any more .the concerts started with 2 supremes who Miss Ross never performed with, the fans didn't buy tickets and the tour flopped and was cancelled.
This is my all-time favorite broadway musical. the orchestration, the original choreo and the go cast was top notch. Ive doe this musical once as a musical and the second as a concert in college. Ive played Jimmy both times and it wasn't until my second time that I understood the musical, despite having the movie and score/script, even RU-vid resources. This video was perfect.
I would recommend "One Singular Sensation: The Michael Bennett Story" by Kevin Kelly as another book to check out that deals with the darker side of Bennett and his relationship with the actors that he worked with.
I'm a huge fan of this show, and have read just about every word written about it and Michael Bennett. You have created a perfect comprehensive accounting of thus show! Great job! Thank you.
Thank you for this thoughtful history of both the original Broadway musical and the 2006 film. I was too young to see the Broadway production in person but we did own the vinyl of the cast recording that I played constantly, memorizing all of the Dreams numbers. Bravo on a job well done!
I remember my mom giving me a Supremes history lesson when I was 10. I was into Motown and oldies for a few months. I remember seeing the Dream girls commercials every morning during the news when I was getting ready for school. I lived in the central NJ NY market .
Well researched and highly informative and entertaining. I can still remember hearing Jennifer Holliday's voice singing I am Telling You on BBC Radio1. It was not the kind of record you normally heard on UK pop radio! I was topped in my tracks and had goosebumps. We never got to see any of the show, we did get to reach about elements of it- mainly the drama surrounding Diana Ross dislike for the show and of course Mary's book was published here. Jennifers record was a minor UK hit but int he early 2000s became a staple of every singing talent show fromX Factor, Pop Idol and Got Talent. It would take until the arrival of the internet and You Tube before we got to see the iconic performance clips of the stage show here in the UK and the movie version was a moderate success here. Amazingly the stage show took over 30 years to make its West End debut. In my opinion the movie looked great and I loved the many Motown and Supremes references throughout the film. I did find the film a bit overblown and it sagged in the middle- just a bit too long. I do watch the key musical numbers every now and again. I would love to have witnessed Jennifer Holliday give one of those iconic performances as Effie on Broadway.
My mom always remembered how Simon Cowell once said that Jennifer Hudson was "out of her element". Especially after Dreamgirls, my mom would say, "He was right, she was out of her element- she was too good for them!" They showed the movie at a local theater a few months back, so I got to see it again and my husband got to see it for the first time in theaters.
I saw the Los Angeles production. Reference to Diana stayed. And to twist the knife, the actress that played Denna (Linda-Leilani Brown) was made up to look like Diana. Elements of the movie that are now in the play SUCKS!
Great video essay. While you did mention a bit about changes made between the stage production and the movie, for someone like me who never saw the former I would have loved a deeper comparison. So I hereby make a wish for an "Adapation" series of videos where you specifically focus on this for various musicals. I would absolutely eat that up.
If you look online on youtube as well, you can find two full recordings of Dreamgirls. One very bootleg lol with the original cat from 1981 and one in 2003/2004 in Pittsburgh! If you're curious to watch the stage production I suggest it! I didn't fall in love with Dreamgirls till seeing the original production. It was far more magical than watching the movie for me!
Another fantastic video! And I LOVE the inclusion at the very end of some of the.books (and their covers! ❤) you read for research. As always, I'm already looking forward to your next video.
What an awesome Documentary I just stumbled upon it and it was so entertaining and informative with awesome visual references Great Work Now SUBSCRIBED !!!! Thankyou
This play should have, like so many other plays, been put onto DVD so it could be enjoyed by the many who never saw it, were too young to see it and for the then future generation who were not yet born to see it. Sad shame that all there is are critics' opinions of the play and its actors, which in all honesty I can do without... I want to see it as well as some other great Broadway plays that have never been aired and for all intents have fallen into unknown-ness because of it. Like DREAMGIRLS there was a play called THE WIZ with Stephanie Mills that received all manner of acclaim... never made available. ARMS TO SHORT TO BOX WITH GOD... never made available etc
Thanks for this episode, very informative. I loved the original stage version, which I was fortunate enough to see; the film less so-so many missed opportunities dampened by uneven editing, cheesy sets and costumes and too much dialogue compared to the stage version. I perversely redo the film in my head at 4 am… I did enjoy Jennifer Hudson, Anika Noni Rose and especially Eddie Murphy, who was brilliant.
Ngl the “selling away there work for a dollar” thing is shady af. I can get it once for ACL,kinda,they were excited and Bennett was obviously brilliant but he was successful at the time of ACL and Dreamgirls and likely could’ve afforded to pay them more. he definitely owed the people he based ACL on more (I know they got more after the 2006 revival but I mean initially)
When I was a kid I actually had no idea that it was based off of a real story. I only found out when I saw a video about it. But I love the Broadway show and the movie music
What annoys me is that Dreamgirls has wrecked any chance of making an actual movie/series about the real Supremes. It is so close to their story people will say 'haven't they already made that??'
Diana Ross nor Berry Gordy will allow that. The themes of the stage play and movie remake are based around back stabbing antics and dishonest business practices. Leaning into conspiracies about payola, drug abuse, domestic abuse, and blackballing.
Probably an unpopular opinion but I would’ve fired Effie too. Her career hadn’t hit the “irreplaceable diva” stage yet, and she had no business acting like she had. Truth be told, I would’ve hired her replacement much sooner. Maybe it’s shitty, but her attitude was messing with their money-and that rarely ever flies.
Without the incredible Miss Jennifer Holliday, this show would never have been such a hit. Michael Bennett knew this. So should everyone else. She is the most beautiful lady and most talented. It's a shame white women can be mediocre but given the ultimate praise, but black women are beyond excellent and get minimal praise. But we all know the truth.❤❤❤❤
And the development of the show was in workshop, she helped create And I Am Telling You with the lyricist and she also insisted the song be kept in the show. She also quit several times and she refused to come back given that they killed her character off after the first act. They rewrote it!
I think it would have made sense to know why Flo started acting erratically. She never got over her rape when she was a teen and then, on top of that, had to sing background in a group she started.
Dreamgirls is one of the VERY few musicals where I feel the film is better. It better serves the story, establishes the world and wider context (and passage of time) far better than the stage show - which can feel too much like a glorified concert at times.
Yes if you are not black there are blind spots and the music and backgrounds of the characters matter. If you are not black, you can not say that is not a factor in the critique of Michael
Everything about every production Michael Bennett helmed is filled with petty grievances during and after the fact, which I think speaks to the values of the man, and the easily-manipulated people he hired for those exact reasons. His work after FOLLIES was all shallow dazzle, and again, it speaks to the values of the man. As for the performers and their petty complaints that I think you give too much credence to-- They didn't write the show. They didn't face the terror and joy of the blank page. And twenty years after the show closed and the movie was made, they weren't owed anything by Bill Condon, et al. But Bennett probably manipulated and twisted their egos into such a sorry state to meet his own desires in 1981 that they, to this day, still think they're more important than they actually are. Having said all that, I think there's a lot of interesting stuff here, and always enjoy the care you give to your work.
Very theater nerd review with no real insight on how black audiences seen the film. No one was bothered by the motown comparison. If you think Beyonce was not an essential element of making that production great, you are extremely off
