Star Trek: DS9 Sisko's Problem 

They are remembering the positive parts of their heritage. Not the negative. And at no other point will he ever think of himself as black. In fact, Avery Brooks as stated in an interview that he never thought of his character as a black captain, as it would have only held his character back. He merely thought of himself as a black man playing a Star Trek captain. Sorry, but this is just hack writing.

@Purplekitty Who says I'm a trump supporter?

It also helps that Sisko studies a lot of history (he mentions an interest in 21st century history), if someone cared about historical accuracy it and found breaking that accuracy insulting it would be him.

@@ThePoshboy1 what?

@@Reggie2000 It's not hack writing, its a statement of fact. The point Sisko makes is 100% valid. Its only hack writing to people like you who don't like being confronted with racism.

Why not? What about forgetting? It’s not forgetting!

@@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 Whitewashing history (deliberate choice of words here) makes it easy to lie about the present or justify repeating past atrocities. It's the number one tool used by those who want the world to become a worse place.

Bravo for what? Not letting go of the past? For trying to shame white people? Sorry, but no one's buying that "white guilt" bullshit anymore. All it is is devisive and offensive.

@@charjl96 Umm, how about bravo for tackling the subject in a realistic way. Not forced SJW crap like STD. Sisko was fond of human history and is well aware of the struggles blacks faced in the 1960's. So for him it's disgraceful to simulate those times but take out the bad. Cassidy counter argues that things should have been better back then, but humans gonna human and what's most important is that NOW there is equality and you have no limitations black man. In a lot of ways it speaks directly to today's America. Slavery was bad, racism was bad, but even tho there are challenges today do not dwell on those things so much that it keeps a black person right now from realizing their potential. You squander the suffering of your ancestors by letting past injustice dictate your limits today.

@@vrASMR180 I still think the scene is unnecessary. Inflammatory. Seems like they went out of their way to add it to the script for the sake of shaming people. Still, I love DS9, and I don't want to focus too much on this (it's total prop, though). I'll probably delete that stuff about Avery Brooks. He's a great actor, and it was pretty ridiculous for me to say.

@@vrASMR180 I'll admit that they handled it better than it would've been handled today

charjl a year later, and you’re in an even more desperately small minority now... It’s not about white guilt, it’s about acknowledging the faults of the past, so that we can stop them. Sadly this isn’t even in the past, this is as relevant today as it ever was. If you think this is meant to make you feel guilty, it’s likely that your denial makes you feel so...

Bingo.

Too address them as problems that OTHER civilizations have, in order to point out the absurdity of having those prejudices at all in our own time. He never intended for humans to still think that way ever in the 24th century. To do so will make them a mental defective. He would never have approved this scene.

@@Reggie2000 not 100% of 24th century Humans might even then

The original series had a character openly compare Spock to a Romulan disparagingly and Kirk tells him to “leave his bigotry in his quarters” and shuts him down. Humans will never be perfect, that was never gene’s point.

And Hamilton. Someone asked Daveed Diggs if it was appropriate for a black man to play a known slaver and he never responded.

In an interview, Avery stated that he never wanted to be "The Black Captain." He said "Once you introduce the identity politics, there is no where else to go." This is not the kind of scene he ever wanted, according to him.

The Doctor from Voyager also shows up

1910s? And 1920s? Are you sure? I thought was supposed to be in the 2020s Buck Bokai and all that

@@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 when he goes back in time to the Bell riots they named dropped Buck Bo kai as if he was a recent player.

@@greyjedi1272 isn’t that what I just said

@@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 NGL I didn't read your post.

According to the addendum to this episode, the purpose of this scene is to answer Sisko's problem for this very episode. They explicitly aren't ignoring the issue of race. Instead by having Sisko essentially explain to the audience what is history and what is the fantasy created for the show, they can avoid the feeling of cognitive dissonance from bypassing the racism. So for the Jackie Robinson baseball games, Sisko isn't ignoring history. He's well versed in the lives of these players and knows what the truth is, vs the fictional fantasy.

It doesn’t really matter where she was born. Even if she wasn’t born on Earth it doesn’t mean she doesn’t understand her heretage. Besides, compared to 20th century Earth the Earth of Star Trek might as well be a different planet. The fact that Sisko was born on Earth doesn’t necessarily give him an appreciably greater understanding of his people’s history.

I think the writers focused more on the statement then the logic behind why it's so important to Sisko (though it was to Brooks). And it's a pretty good statement if you ask me. Let the past be the past.

I think it was more about the statement then the logic of it being there. And it is a good statement if you ask me. Don't forget the past, but don't let it dictate your life.

Not until all the white people are gone, I guess. Then they'll have to look for someone else to blame

The thing is: He remembered what it felt like to be Benny Russell in that vision (or whatever it was) that he had in, "Far Beyond the Stars." That was, in a way, his experience with racism.

As long as one can get as mileage as they can.....Being a Victim, even 400 years in the future, pas some great dividends

I don’t think it was about that. Also nice to see your account still active after all these years

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Oh?

Music! Yas I totally agree uGH I hate what I always see on Trending

I don’t know I liked it. It was on a soulless romp like STD Heheh std that’s funny right there

What's wrong with that?

A lot of people think it was NOT enough at all lol I thought it was an okay scene We see it we move on

@@mattybrunolucaszeneresalas9072 You may see it and move on, but lots of people who dig in deep on the Trek don't. I'm not that person personally, but for me, this is a stand out scene for all the wrong reasons. It is, up until this point in the late 90's of Trek lore, simply absurd. Not only would Sisko not act like this, but you can 100% find interviews with Avery Brooks himself from the 90s addressing how he never saw himself as a black commander, but as simply a commander, and that is how he always tried to play him. I'm amazed he got talked into this. Of course I have seen interviews with cast members about the lack of being allowed input or adlibbing on this series. As a writer, I can't stress enough the shoddiness of the writing. This whole thing was so easy to do better.

@@Reggie2000 I don’t think it’s shoddy writing to me because I didn’t even notice. It doesn’t create a plot hole that leaves people confused. As for the Benny defense. I think it has some ground, I don’t think Sisko had all of his memory is intact though. Besides I believe that even if the captain never thought about it maybe something about his upbringing or something he read or something he saw he just didn’t like historical inaccuracy. Despite being 300 years in the future I do believe that there will still be some people on the 24th century pining for historical accuracy as an SJW. Hopefully though it is more of a remnant.

It's called subtext. Sisko directly experienced 60s racism for himself, so he has a problem with Vic's, and Cassidy didn't, so she doesn't. He doesn't need to turn to the camera and explain to the audience that this is because he was Benny, it's blatantly obvious. I doubt that you are a very good writer if you demand the audience be spoon fed every subtle piece of characterisation.

@@dswrabkln4900 If you think "being Benny", a fictional dream character, scarred Sisko so badly, that he is now a triggered snowflake, then you don't think much of Sisko. And I do great as a writer. No need to worry your pretty little brain about me sugar.

Agreed, if your going to study the past you to learn from both the good, the not so good and the ugly parts. Above all we have to learn from the ugly parts and the parts that make us uneasy so that said events are never repeated.

@@hpa2005: And yet, at the same time, not to get stuck in the past & develop a victim mentality as a result. Are there still racists in the USA? Sure, some of them will even tell you with pride! Does the USA even remotely resemble the Jim Crow era nowadays? Nope, yet activist groups (whom we were warned about by Booker T. Washington) will push that very narrative, that things haven't changed. It can be a fine line between remembering soberly & respectfully vs needless wallowing in misplaced collective shame. I like this scene a lot, really makes you think!

@@spk1121 Agreed

He still remembers it? I had forgotten this takes place after that

Difference is that since then he directly experienced the racism for himself via Prophet vision.

Really? Most people seem to be defending this scene

You clearly haven't heard of Jim Crow laws under which cops could legally arrest, maim or even kill Black people who tried to buy a meal in a Whites only restaurant. By contrast, in 2023, cops can't shoot White people who go into any restaurant. That would be illegal.

I don’t think that how Avery thought

FekLeyrTarg's Videos he let Hudson go because he thought he’d come back because they’d been friends for a long time; he probably thought if he left it alone, Hudson would realize he didn’t really want to be part of the Maquis. Eddington, meanwhile, served under Sisko, was a member of his senior staff, and had always been hiding his true loyalties as long as Sisko knew him; I think that it actually said in one episode that most of Sisko’s anger towards Eddington was the fact that he had hidden his true motives all this time and he never saw it.

“WELL I-I am FFFflattered by your proposal captain but I really have some clothes to hem”

Jason Newsham but...he WAS there! In Far Beyond the Stars, he lives the life of Benny Russell, a black science fiction writer in 1950s New York, Inner Light-style. He experienced discrimination for his race firsthand, and it had an effect on Sisko that we can see here! I agree that his views are misguided, and that’s why he ends up changing his mind later and helps the crew out!

Also he is a history nerd and has family roots in New Orleans.

Maybe some people still passed down the necessity for historical accuracy 100% of the time. I agree with you but I also understand them.

I hate to break this to you, but Black people aren't a monolith. What might be no big deal to Uhura could be a very big deal to Sisko. And, as others pointed out, Sisko did time travel to the 1950s when he faced vicious racism first hand. That experience stuck with him.

Sisko didn't fear Vic or the club he allowed it to run the whole time and never said anything. She more or less had to drag it out of him. He wasn't offended or angry... Just uncomfortable because he knows the history and he doesn't want folks forgetting how things were... Try to remember they are on a space station from a still recent occupation of a race of people... Those issues still exist in the universe they live in....

@@OlaBetiku Well said.

He is known for being a history buff and he has a ton of African art, also saying because humanity is in a better place doesn't mean he can't have those feelings.

But humanity reached that level of tolerance by learning from history not burying it as too many want to do in our century.

CptCarlosRuiz Why can’t he acknowledge being black? There were hints of his blackness throughout the entire show. He is from New Orleans which has a distinctive black culture, history, and experience. He has African art in this quarters and in s3 or s4, there is an episode where he mentions visiting Africa during his vacation. He is comfortable with his blackness. It is most definitely part of his identity. Why is it that white people can identify as Irish, Italian, Polish etc but when a black person identifies as black its a problem. Being black is a race AND a cultural identity replete with experience and history tied to it.

@@asteven8 The reason people have a problem with blackness is that for the sake of pride, blackness has come to mean distinct and as opposed to anything deemed "White". Which means that anytime there is something typically done by white people, black people have to then do something else entirely to remain distinct and proud. The trouble is that since the *social construct* of blackness emerged in the shadow of the most successful and most powerful nation in history, so blackness in order to be distinct, became a repudiation of those cultural traditions that led to success and power. Blackness became in a sort, a shadow of American culture. And you can see this in the social structure of majority black areas. Education and completing high school is a white thing, so black people eschew it. So too was a stable family, so black people embraced broken homes. Independence and responsibility were also "white things", so black people embraced welfare. The reason people have an issue with blackness, is because very often those who identify with it are trapped in a prison of a cultural heritage of bitterness, pitifulness and failure papered over with a primitive and masturbatory racial pride that barely hides a crushing inferiority complex.

It isn’t any stranger than Picard having a collection of European art. Just because humanity is unified in Star Trek doesn’t mean people don’t value their unique cultures and histories anymore.

@@CircaSriYak Jesus Christ, what racist drivel. African Americans developed a counter-culture because they were legally excluded from prestigious institutions, high society, and success as late as the 70s. Of course that still has an impact. Even today the legacy of redlining segregates black families into worse neighborhoods, meaning worse schools, and mass incarceration due to sentencing disparities breaks up their families. Nevertheless, plenty of black people do not rely on welfare, plenty of black people enter prestigious institutions, and plenty of black people stay around for their families, all without rejecting their rich cultural history. To equate black culture entirely with the tragic consequences of discrimination is totally intellectually dishonest. Not one part of your comment mentioned the food, music, and community which is present in black neighborhoods; you entirely frame black identity as a pathological thing which they chose. I'll remind you that the black culture you despise so much is responsible for creating entire genres of music, like jazz and soul. Pure historical illiteracy. Btw, curious that America is the "greatest nation in history", and yet allows its own people to die on the street from curable illnesses. Doesn't happen in Finland. According to which metric is the US the best again? Number of people in prison?

​@@ronin3381 Exactly. Picard is a proud Frenchman. Why can't Sisko be a proud Black man?

Meh they were okay

That's *his* point, he doesn't want to live a lie and act like racism never existed in this place where it very much did.

I counter with Bridgerton: everyone oohs and ahs over the representation but that requires forgetting that the British hereditary nobility made its fortunes through slavery.

That’s the point. He doesn’t have a problem with Vic, he has a problem with pretending that racism didn’t exist in the 1960s.

Clueless

Yeah it's not like he literally had a vision from the Prophets where he got beaten nearly to death just for being black or anything.