I've loved these designs since i discovered them long ago, these really should have been the ships of a say 2120-2180 era, the ships from enterprise should have been from a show that takes place in 2200.
You have no idea how much this website filled my breaks at work on my phone. Love Starfleet museum's trek verse. Aww you skipped the Amarillo, that class kept earth alive before anti matter reactors were developed, the Kretchet was more or less an adapted Amarillo class hull.
An Expanse-esk _ST ENT_ is indeed a somewhat intriguing notion. When it comes to the ship designs: For Earth, the designs are cool but very blimpish/zeppelin-ish; it is a bit of the challenged to see how they would lead to 23rd century Starfleet designs like the Constitution. The Romulan ships have more congruous designs; the aquatic tentacle nacelles is a peculiar design choice, however I like them. Powhatan is pronounced pau-uh-tan, after Amerindian tribes near Jamestown, VA; the 1st successful English settlement in NA.
Fortunately, the Museum has designs going all the way up to the TOS era- so you can see the evolution. Basically, secondary hulls get developed at the end of Romulan War, leading to ships like the Daedalus Class. Then through the late 22nd and early 23rd Centuries the primary hulls gradually change from spherical to ovular to saucers across successive designs
Thanks for clearing that up. You can see the progression in ships like the deadalus. It's also worth remembering these are purely human designs not federation so it gives the other races more of an impact.
I've been a fan Masao's work for more then 15 years now. His museum has very evolutionary, dotted with revolutionary design aesthetics. They also have a well fleshed out history of each ship class.
I've loved that starfleet museum page since the just before enterprise came out... idk how many hours of my teens I spent reading through the countless articles. Its all so well done. So so many great and logical designs.. I was so disappointed with enterprise after reading so much awesome history... but its still better than std or the jarjar abrahms scheiss. Thank you so much for using this magnificent material.
I had forgotten about Maseo's webpage, this brings back a lot of memories. I'm sure that I will loose a lot of time rereading the site. As you said it has a logical progression from low tech to Star Trek.
Cool crossover idea! What if Expanse was part of prime universe. Then World War III occurs and much was lost especially in solar system as well on Earth. Haven’t seen all of Expanse series but I was impressed with it.
Yes i think your earth romulan war was the first of your videos i saw . I have watched it at least four times . I guess im not the only one. .almost two years. Time flies
Just a note: The Starfleet Museum existed long before Enterprise. I was looking at the Starfleet Museum in the late 90s/early 2000s. I remember Masao Okazaki was asked if he would update the page to reflect about-to-be-released Enterprise and he said no. Personally, I love the Starfleet Museum and it's my dream to take it and repurpose it to be something not Star Trek related because I love the ship designs so much.
One thing I really liked in the Starfleet Museum was that the Romulans didn't go after Earth to destroy a rising nemesis that had been foiling all their plans and the linchpin or keystone in a new and dangerous coalition. Instead, the Romulans regarded Earth as, at best, a second rate power that had territory the Romulans wanted in their ultimate scheme to return to Vulcan and conquering it. They had no interest in invading Earth itself, they just wanted Earth's outer colonies and outposts to secure their own frontier (and in my particular interpretation, securing the invasion corridor to Vulcan). If Earth had just accepted the losses, the Romulan would have left them alone until the conquest of Vulcan was done and appropriately secure, which would have been a process of decades. By mere chance Earth scientists, with help from a team of Vulcan mathematicians, cracked the secret to producing antimatter economically, making antimatter warp flight practical. This gave Earth the edge in the war and thus turned what was suppose to be a relatively straightforward border conflict/territory grab into a costly war where Earth dictated the time and place of nearly every encounter and so was usually able to secure a local superiority in numbers and firepower. Such a turn of events would be truly humiliating. Thanks for making this video Venom Geek Media 98!
Very different indeed. Of course without the vulcans the federation would not have formed. Although I'm not sure if vulcans would have been so easy to conquer. Given their ships in enterprise.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That’s just it. You can’t use ST:ENT in regard to the Starfleet Museum save as a contrast. They are just too different. In ST:ENT the Vulcans are a regional superpower that possessed a severe antagonistic relationship with most other regional powers and required Earth as a impartial middle man to find the compromised middle ground that everyone could live with. That is a Vulcan ready for martial conflict with at least some practical experience in fighting an interstellar war. In the Starfleet Museum, as I have been able to interpret it, is far more mellow. I would see it and its neighbors having had their conflicts in the past, even severe ones, but that was of many decades ago. Now they and their neighbors would have formed a precursor to the Federation, albeit far more decentralized and weaker, sort of like the League of Nations and the Congress of Vienna/German Confederation. This loose alliance/association promoted what little trade that could be made practical regarding warp flight at the time and solved disputed territorial claims. (Perhaps Babel is a holdover from that era and only one of many diplomatic sites that maintained local peace and cooperation?) Earth would be a newcomer to this association and very much a junior member, but one with ambition looking for a way get a seat at the “big kids table” hence pursuing irreputable projects like economical antimatter production which had been long since abandoned by the Vulcans and their peers. This way, the path to the Federation is well traveled and ready for an expansion in favorable circumstance and not just relatively “pulled out of a hat” by Earth in ST:ENT. Such a Vulcan would be more vulnerable to invasion by the Romulans, who had been keeping their war skills sharp with numerous conflicts with the Klingons. Also, in the article regarding the Amarillo-class cruisers it is stated that they “were some of the fastest and most heavily armed ships in known space.” If you interpret “known space” to include the space possessed by the Vulcans and their peers, then Romulan ships closely matched their cousins in general performance, thus war could be effectively executed. I will grant one great Vulcan (and their peers) weapon superiority over Earth and the Romulans. When you look at the laser weapon compliments of the Dragon-class and the Wasp-class, there is a massive leap in laser technology. Laser weapons go from large “cannons” that are either fixed (with perhaps a 5-degree range of fire due to internal mechanisms of some sort) or mounted in large cumbersome turrets to multi-directional ball emitters functionally little different from the ball phasers emitters from the TOS era. I interpret that to mean that the Vulcans and their peers poses highly refined laser weapons technology, one Earth had a great deal of difficultly in replicating. Thus, Earth opted for raw firepower with massive laser cannons to compensate. Once the Federation was formed, however, technology was shared between the various members. Thus, the Vulcans and their peers got antimatter technology and Earth got the highly refined laser weapon technology and the Wasp-class was one of the first practical fusions of the technologies. As I have said before, much of this in my interpretation of the Starfleet Museum. However, if I am off the mark, I don’t think I am too far off it.
Yes! Finally! I was wondering when you were going to touch on this gem! One of the reasons the Romulans didn't pursue matter-antimatter technology outside of munitions development is due in part to a deeply ingrained aspect of Romulan culture and society, the very foundation of their schism from Vulcan society itself...That antimatter is unnatural and artificial, it does not exist in our universe in any native form, much in the same way followers of Surak's philosophy of logic and suppression of emotions even their outright expulsion through the Kolinahr ritual. Which the Romulans see rejecting emotions, a fundamental part of their being as nothing more than unnatural, the very antithesis of the natural order of things.
I also like the Princeton-style Incident that was a given as an additional explanation for the Romulan warp backwardness of that era. While it is a bit of a stretch, such things have happened in history to one degree or another. Perhaps such an incident was what gave the Romulan anti-antimatter cultural aspect the bite it needed to stay effective after the end of the war even while other powers, such as the Klingons, pursued it with abandon. I could see Romulan politicians and philosophers that benefitted from such an incident stating that all who used such unnatural fuel would 'doom themselves to destruction eventually and that the Romulan Star Empire would survive to pick up the pieces' and their successors continued to echo out of self preservation until the Klingon gave them a sound trouncing.
This is good stuff. Now to get any of the people doing star trek fan films, to do the Romulan war based on these crafts. Would be nice to see no view screens using sensors and radar only never knowing what they looked like, possibly limited if any gravity plating in the ships, and transition from nuclear star drive to antimatter. "Big story line in the movie for Vulcans holding back technology." Also Spock did say they used atomic missiles during this war. etc. etc. I could go on for a while. 😎
The designs in the SF Museum are really great, even if some of the ideas seem a little off for Trek to me (like the warp torpedoes or the Minotaur "fighters" which are actually gunships). I just wish there was a complete write-up of the history of the war, as the timelines given on the site are not very good. There's also the fact that some of the descriptions show multiple stages of development (references to Devron IX which was replaced with the Torsk Incident, the Battle of Hell's Gate being pushed to the beginning and replacing Salem One while the Battle of the Vela Gap replaces it as the "turning point"). It's frustrating.
Personally I see "Sustain-er" engines as an evolution of Modern UK Stormshadow cruise missiles. they have very advanced GPS units and sophisticated computers and engines, all on a thing that, as you say, blow up.
So what I heard / seen was there was a lot of use of atomic weapons, this was said in balance of terror. Also not sure where I seen this, but they way I have always understood was that zephran Cochran literally was the fore father of warp drive and that the romulan did indeed use artificial singularities to launch/jump their ship to a system this took a long time to prepare and was not easy to go to uncharted places, was slower and less efficient and did not use warp as their FTL until the Romulan/ Klingon tech exchange where Klingons gave Romulan’s warp drive and Romulan’s gave Klingons cloaking devices. It was said that the Klingons got warp drive from reverse engineering the uss ranger, the supposed disastrous first contact the captain Picard talked about. I do and have felt that enterprise was too advanced. I think they tried to work it in but wanted to keep startrek catch phrases such as phase(phaser).
Stories in these early FTL stages (not just ST) are kinda few. Mass Effect is somewhere near and the early Babylon 5 is set basically right after such period ends but I wish there were more purpose built stories around such settings.
What exactly do you consider a high explosive in space considering high vs low explosive is defined by speed of the explosion relative to the speed of sound?
The Starfleet Technical Manual does sat the war was done with warp 2 vessels and the treaty was done with radio transmissions only as sensors were to primitive for visual communications.
My only issue with having fusion or fission reactors for the warp core is matter/antimatter reactors are not just used because they seem futuristic but in order for a warp drive to do what it does you really need the energy of a m/am reaction to do it
From what I read(or remember) it was very high output(and very deuterium hungry) fusion reactors that could create energetic enough plasma to power warp coils. But only at very low warp speeds. Like warp 2 or 3 meby 4 if you gave it the beans. But your out of fuel in 5 or so light years. I think just the most powerful fission reactors can just break warp 1.3 or so.. but only with a lot of fuel and refinements in warp coils. Starfleet museum could release a book on what they have.
@@tra-viskaiser8737 Its now Cannon that Type 6 shuttlecraft among others are fusion Powered themselves. Starfleet Museum does have a book...there is a link in the site :) I bought it myself. Warp 2 seems to be the best economical speed for Fusion reactors to get the best range while going usefully fast - In the ENT Novels the Antimatter warp cores were pitched against Cascading Ion Drive cores to compete for the Warp 5 Program which likely meant that anything stuck at Warp 2 would be Fusion powered (Warp 3 ships might be Antimatter but like in the SF Museum Antimatter spiked Fusion reactors without the Dilithium needed to moderate)
Why are you hating on ENT having inertial dampeners? LaForge in First contact activates the inertial dampeners on the Phoenix... they do exist even before ENT.
No shade to the creator of this alternate history---I actually really enjoyed the thorough-ness of all this when I first discovered EAS years ago, but let's be honest---these ships look like they were designed by a clever kid, they're so simplistic. Also the crew compliments are ridiculous----waaaayyyyy too large for ships that small. Set those issues aside, and it's really cool, though. (Also, the names of the Romulan ships are just plain silly.)
@@owenstockwood5040 UESN intelligence Codenames for sure...Cabbage is what the crews on UESN ships called them...Sabinus is what the Intel peeps called them
I do agree that discovery should have been more like expanse travel and combat. I dont see that could have happened though even when they eluded to it in original series. It is just too far out of the box for the series mindset. It would have taken a leap of creativity for it to happen. We all know that is far outside Hollywood's present abilities or skill to make such a leap of creativity.
I know Enterprise pushed up the formation of the federation to right after the Earth/romulan war but you are ignoring the established inferstructure of allied planets whom are more advanced than earth. I could understand a relay/com ship used in romulan space or a secured mobile platform that can manuver and reposition itself to keep moving battle groups in constant contact.
The universal translator bursts into flames, trying to figure out Belter Creole, seeing as in Star Trek's future everyone from every species only speaks one language each and there are no dialects
The only expance ships that have crews aproaching a 1000 crew members are the Donager class and the UN drednoughts/agatha king the rest have less than a hundred.
As far as I'm concerned, SM is canon and ENT is not. No disrespect to the latter, it was just too much of a disappointment. And I LOVE the SM designs and the spirit of their interpretation.
It's a lot more connected than Enterprise was. This stuff is the bridge between the sleeper ship Khan's gang was found on and the sphere in a collection of cylinders that is the Daedelus class. The post Romulan War stuff is the bridge between the Daedelus and the Constitution. There's no escaping the canonicity of the Daedelus after a model appeared in Ben Sisko's office.
Does anyone see the irony of these ships battling well beyond visual range while humongous "modern" Star Trek vessels dogfight each other well within visual range. I guess if you do not need to fit the combattants on a screen, the combat ranges can be more realistic. lol
Even 90s Trek had some of that, they'd list ranges close to a light second on screen (I'm pretty sure they do in the episode where a captain goes on a rampage against the Cardassian fleet) and then show ships almost hugging each other
Gonna be brutal here and I am rarely this negative but these ships look like they were designed by a child. The idea that they didn't have artificial gravity and inertial dampeners is silly. Cochran would have needed them to keep from turning into jelly when he went to warp the first time. This is why I tend to frown on fan fiction. I'm afraid I wouldn't pay for the nickel tour of this museum.
They have gravity plating. Look at the bluescale plans. They still use vertical decks anyway because it's just efficient: less strain on the plating to counter the effects of impulse/sublight thrust, and in case the plating fails they can revert to old style acceleration for gravity in a pinch and everything won't fly out of place everywhere (eg, directly ahead down long hallways).
Star Fleet Museum is the prequel that the fans wanted, but what the Paramount Studios refused to give us. Star Trek, Star Wars, Dr. Who, Battle Star Galactica, all these franchises have been captured by Woke forces giving us the unwanted Woke Agenda, and not what the fans want.
