This is what performance mode always should've been. if I cared about ray tracing or the visual quality of the game, I would play quality mode. if I am playing performance mode, I want *performance*
The resolution is much better, pretty close to quality. And, except for RT and RT reflections, from what they're saying, the other graphical settings are a match for quality. I've taken screenshots to compare between the two modes and that seems to be the case. I'd been playing on quality before but now, for me, this updated performance mode is the best way to play. They do need more work on the SSR, especially on water, so hopefully they'll improve it. And I wasn't impressed with the RT water, myself. It looked really noisy and low-resolution in my opinion. Plus, as DF pointed out, somehow the performance while in the Koboh rivers has gotten worse. I didn't remember the fps being that bad before and I was right, lol.
still 60 fps Is a universal standard. 30fps is last gen. 120 fps is pc master race wet dreams. im fine with stable 60 and decent resolution.@@bensmith5288
They literally just turned of the Raytracing in the performance mode. There weren't any other optimizations made. So it wasn't unfinished. They just didn't want to compromise on their vision in the performance mode.
ive played games all my life all this time without this ray tracing feature and ive never noticed or even thought about... i was just having fun with finished games
That water issue definitely is the biggest standout problem given its so noticeable. I feel I should wait a little longer before buying cause its still got some oddities.
@@xtr.7662 Not really, they have a last gen version in the works apparently and the game still have some game-breaking bugs and pretty bad stability issues, so they'll have to fix shit one way or another
I often dont understand a lot of the technical talk in DF's videos. I just watch them cos they're so well produced and weirdly relaxing! Keep up the good work! 🙂
Why aren't more developers implementing a 120hz 40fps mode, I feel like it'd be a good balance if they want to keep the high visuals along with a somewhat smooth gameplay
@@leanlifter1 120 Hz is a requirement for 40 fps to have smooth frame pacing. Either that or VRR with low framerate compensation, but not all 120 Hz displays support HDMI 2.1 VRR so a 120Hz/40 fps mode is still valuable for PS5 users especially.
Great video. I appreciate ray tracing and enjoy it on some PC games but for my Xbox copy of Jedi I'll happily give up the relatively benign RT for the improved performance. I won't always notice the RT effects during gameplay but I will always notice frame drops and frame time stutters.
well thats pretty funny your picture. Yesterday I was watching videos about Gabe. And they detailed where the Valve sound was a soundclip during a Half Life quest, and the image of the dude with valve on his head and employee you have in your picture were made same time but your picture didn't get used until a decade later !
I feel like this is a situation where the overall look of the game is actively improved without ray tracing. More realistic lighting doesn’t automatically equal a better image. Sometimes contrast at art style are just more readable and visually pleasing when the scenes aren’t as realistically lit.
I've really enjoyed the game since the update. It still looks very good, a marked improvement over Fallen Order graphics now (i used to prefer fallen order on PS5 graphics over the older versions of Survivor due to the its sub par frames and resolution drops). But I think the game, particularly the PS5 version is excellent now and is getting a bit overlooked by other PS5 users who either don't know of the patch or got so burned by previous iterations that it puts them off reinstalling. But they should definitely revisit it.
You seem to imply that artists don't have control over their art style with RT which is incorrect. Not only that, but RT (when done well) fixes a lot of artefacts that happen without it. IMO, those artefacts are often distracting and immersion breaking.
In DMC5 I generally prefer the look of the non-RT lighting. That team has a lot of experience building linear levels with hand placed lights. I understand why a studio like Rockstar might find the ability to light their entire game world largely automatically quite useful. However in games with a more directed focus an artist’s ability to play with scene light would be more important. Having light behave correctly all the time might require work arounds a custom solution would not need.
I wouldn't say it looks better, but I do think in a game with well crafted visuals (like this one) the removal of ray tracing makes very little visual impact.
684p base resolution in the launch version is actually insane. completely bonkers. absolutely embarrassing. i remember everybody giving Quantum Break tons of crap for rendering at a base 720p and upscaling to 1080p. how far we've (jedi) fallen (order)
Great content as always. I'm glad I waited to pick this up. Looking forward to playing once I push through my back log. Should be a decent price around Black Friday/Cyber Monday.
720p to now closer to 1080p base render. Thats almost 2x the amount of pixel detail... while running significantly better. And running higher overall settings 👏 👏
Patch 7.5 performance mode issues: - Heavy sceen tearing in Koboh (first big open area, I haven't tested the other maps yet) - Cutscenes are locked at 30fps and they stutter everytime they load - Occlusion culling bug (white flashes) - Textures load too slow sometimes - Sometimes when I close the menu and I resume playing I see the entire game glitching for 1 second (probably also loading issue?) Positive things: So far the framerate is tolerable, the reflections on water surfaces seem improved and I encountered 0 crashes in 10 hours of gametime The game is so much fun but the screen tearing is ruining the immersion for me...
"40 to 50 fps range in more demanding sections". *Shows a section where absolutely nothing is going on with no NPC on screen and it's still only 50fps* I almost forgot how rough perf mode was at launch.
Yeah...it certainly is a decent update but cracks appear towards the latter third of the game, particularly during and following the mountain base level. On PS5, with VRR engaged, there are noticable framerate drops and screen tearing in the base interior, a drop in resolution and fsr artifacting aplenty. Upon returning to the saloon area in koboh you'll experience screen tearing and some stuttering. Changing between quality and performance modes can drop performance wildly in both modes requiring a reload. That bug can also soft lock your game. Skipping cutscenes can occasionally cause the game to stop loading new areas of the map, locking you into a zone surrounded by invisible walls and doors that don't open. If the game auto saved after the cutscene you need to start a new game from the beginning as loading the save drops you back into the partially loaded level. It's got some issues. Video captures of all these things have been posted on EAs twitter. All that said, it's certainly more playable than it was.
Do you mean that after a certain point in the game, areas that previously ran fine start experiencing issues? I'm playing on the SX with Freesync on, about 30 hours of play (mostly exploring, finding collectibles) and only had a handful of issues. Cinematics tank and there was one force tear area that seemed to drop to about 50-55fps from beginning to end, but everything else has been fine. No screen tearing at all. I'm not sure how far I am through the story, though. If by mountain base, you mean the place on Jedha with the giant drill, that ran like a dream for me, which was surprising. But if there's some part of the story after which point the game sucks, it kinda makes me nervous to progress. I suppose I should try to get most of the collectibles now.
@purringbluzzmuffin8030 the mountain base on Koboh. If you've not been there it's basically a structure in the sky. You go there for a major confrontation about 2/3s through the story. Its also about that time that youll have recruited most allies to the saloon, increasing the npc load. That's when the patch started to show its limitations. Another thing we've found is rebooting the game can often address the tearing in main koboh for a decent period of time, but it returns the longer you play. Of course I must stress it's the PS5 version we've been looking at, so I can't speak on the SX version.
@@chalk-one Thanks. I've done that part of the game now and there were no serious performance issues or tearing for me. Same with the full-to-capacity saloon. The only thing that tanks gameplay performance for me is using BD's flammable gel stuff (it's mostly the flame effect that does it). I got the sense that inside the observatory, the frame rate dropped to maybe 55-57 at times but nothing worse than that and it was only for a minority of the time. I've noticed on quite a few games that a general frame rate lagginess can build up over time. I always assumed it was related to quick resume, though. I've never noticed it on my PS5.
@purringbluzzmuffin8030 that's great. Hopefully with all the vid caps we've sent their way, each with descriptions of the found issues and the mode being used (perf with VRR on and off), they might take a look at it and work on additional stability fixes. I do find it vastly improved overall which is probably why these things stand out so much. There's also an issue with geometry draw mostly in darker cave or corridor areas that result in white flashing on the screen as the environment clips in and out. That's quite annoying as is flashes on the screen unexpectedly. Quite a few folk have let the devs know about that. Again, PS5.
@@FlipFlopGod Wrong, badly implemented RT isn't worth the sacrifice. However in the case of Spiderman, Metro Exodus, Cyberpunk and Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart its definitely a nice to have.
@@JagsP95 what’s funny is every single game you just listed, people would rather play with the 60fps mode instead of the raytracing fidelity mode. In terms of pc, there are 0 PC gamers that actually care about ray tracing over frame rate or resolution. Ray tracing is nice on Minecraft and cyberpunk, but in reality it’s never worth the performance cost. You will never notice it during gameplay.
I hope we see more of this as the generation goes on. The over insistence of "cutting edge" graphics at the cost of performance has been a major issue. Ray tracing is neat but shouldn't be prioritized over performance. It sucks that building a game from the ground up with Ray tracing in mind makes it difficult to just turn off for a performance boost. That should be a choice users have (whether they care more about graphics or performance). Edit: 10:35 This is actually wild with as long as the game has been out by now and how many patches we've been through. I would have sworn it launched in Early Access.
I'm glad they changed this. I'm playing this game right now for the first time and I can't say I'm missing anything visually while playing on performance mode. In fact, the game still looks freaking beautiful without RT! The boost in resolution definitely makes the bigger difference for me. Makes the game look so detailed. Sure, the lighting can look a bit flat here and there, but it's worth it for the stable 60fps and higher resolution.
I wouldn't have noticed the rt changes unless you pointed them out. Just goes to show how unnecessary of a feature it is. Ill take stable performance over lighting and reflections anyday.
I don't know why this has to be continually pointed out to you DF. Progression is shown from left to right. Launch on the left patch on the right. Old on the left new on the right. Ape on the left man on the right. Reading from left to right.
To me, the game looks better without RT in most of the scenes that have been shown. You would barely notice the difference most of the time honestly. I do like Ray Tracing when it's well implemented but I don't see the point of losing stability and consistency for the sake of something you will not notice 99% of the time. Another thing we should mention is that while RT "might be" more realistic, sometimes it's just nice to get something different, from an artistic point of view. Realism isn't always the way to go in video games. 3:05 is a good example of a game that looks better without RT (imo).
Pffft, ray tracing is the TITS. They just need to know how to implement it. This game is still unfinished. If CyberPunk can have it, there's no reason this game can't have it.
@@EricMaletteOh you mean unnaturally oversaturated puddles on the street with obnoxious and overdone lighting for massive performance cost. Its a gimmick like the Physx debacle.
Ray tracing now is more gimmick than real game changer,look where ray tracing really improve lightning in cyberpunk 2077 but for this you have need top tier gpu,that cost more than whole console. So rt is more future technology for next generation
@@dungeonmaster8612 Pretty much you hit the nail on the head. The current consoles get a small glimpse of RT what is to come for the next gen consoles.
I don't get why top games don't just use often updated cube maps rather than SS reflections -- at least as a fallback in places like that water scene where SS reflections look atrocious and buggy. In a recent tech review of Forza Motorsports by this very channel, one of the interviewed people said they primarily use RT reflections but sometimes fall back to stuff like cube maps. Is this just a case of the developer team being incompetent or perhaps competent and pushed too hard to deliver results too quickly for them to implement everything intelligently and with integrity?
New developer game marketing strategy "RAY TRACING AND 60 FPS!!!" The game launches with just a tiny smidgen of ray tracing, and you get maybe 40-55 fps, THEN the update comes and removes the ray tracing so we get a somewhat solid 60. We don't care about the tiny morsel of ray tracing that compromises a smooth 60fps.
Series X, PS5 sub 1080p in 2023 what a joke. I’m super curious when Gears 6 is coming and will most certainly get Unreal 5 going at 1440p 60 on Series S. And just embarrassing these other companies.
Insomniac and Turn 10 managed to get 4K/60fps with ray tracing out of Spider-Man 2 and Forza Motorsport, respectively. Respawn should do some benchmarking.
Thats good. A lot pf people wondered why RT was in Performance. Although Insomniac made it work. I play in Quality mode myself unless the only difference is resolution
Frame rate wise is pretty solid now, day and night compared to the launch version. Tearing happens less but still happens occasionally, especially in Koboh, the white artifacts when panning fast are still there, it still needs more polish.
@@Manue_12they are talking about performance mode which it is actually solid 60fps , and btw the only time it drops to 15 fps is one spot in the ps5 which it is clearly a bug since it is worst then what it was before which it is 25 fps ,clearly it is a bug in there .
nice to hear they're still working on it. i know this was the last game that was under EA's exclusivity deal for star wars games but i hope they get a chance to make a third game to close out Cal's story.
I seriously can't understand how so many Devs are ok with launching a game with such terrible reflections implementations... This has been happening in so many games lately, it's jarring and hard not to notice in-game. We need some some new reflections method fast, cheaper and more effective, or development teams should just put more focus into efficient ray-traced reflections, because this is a real shame.
@@peterGchaves indeed. Before these new technologies, we had many games with believable reflections in previous eras. They were cube maps, but at least they didn’t look this bad!
It is strange that other games with SSR instead of RT, did not get that strange artifact/effects when your character and grass are set against a water background. Seems like something that can be patched out or maybe the engine EA uses is just not good enough for these things..
It could be mainly because of planning and artistic choices. The environment was very much probably built to use rt reflections and the "sudden" switch to ssr shown the obvious limitations of the technology. This is a very bas case because it has 0 cube maps to fall on in case the ssr doesn't work and it shows especially when the character is in the water and it makes that weird aura around him, normally there would be a certain degree of cube maps there but here is 0
RT reflections on console are so low resolution that almost every implementation feels like isn't really worth it, i hope there is a way to put all energy on RTAO, because that really makes a big difference.
These changes are so subtle that I dont think game artists still get the full weight of full ray tracing GI. It's not just a few rays for low res reflection like in early RT games, to get a low noise image with RT GI you need quite an amout of rays, wich are still pretty hard to handle even on mid/high range PC hardware, remaining exclusive for enthusiast grade hardware. The old tricks that game artists came up in these past 30 years of 3D graphics are more than eough to replace RT in several places, reducing the cost on the hardware.
Ray tracing is one of the most useless and overhyped inventions in modern tech history. Wherever it is utilised, it makes minor improvement but sacrifices an incredible amount of performance. Ray tracing was implemented way too early, the idea that you could play a ray traced game with a rtx 2060 6gb is ridiculous. Until Nvidia or AMD even Intel releases a low tier card, Powerful enough that retracing is payable for the masses It should never be a main feature in any title. Developers and publishers should stop seeing it as a buzzword and just focus on optimisation of the shit we've seen lately.
UE5 already implements a pretty good global illumination called Lumen. You can easily test for yourself what it looks like with it or without. I would personally say that the result is quite dramatic, especially in the ease of creating beautiful scenes without a huge amount of work.
@@4mb127 We all have seen how ue5 work with current gen,720p resolution upscaling to 4k in immortals of aveum,There where ue5 works fine and stable is fortnite.
That pond in koboh on ps5 makes no sense whatsoever, there must be something big to fix there, probably RT is being too demanding but still, 11 fps seems too big of an impact in performance. They didn't show PS5's resolution either, it'd be interesting to see the comparison with series x.
On the evidence presented here I can't say I'm bothered about the absence of ray tracing. Anything less than 60fps is a pain with modern games and unacceptable IMO on current gen consoles.
Koboh around the town and near bodies of water has always been a hot mess of stuttering. Even in performance mode it still has issues with SSR artefacts. Everywhere else the game now seems to run fine in both quality and performance mode. I am not sure why Koboh is so ploblematic. Will they ever fix it I wonder. Patch 7 may end up being the last patch. We can only hope they give us at least one more patch to address these issues.
TL;DR it runs a lot better, at a higher resolution but with RT completely disabled in performance mode, which often doesn't affect quality that much, except for bodies of water, where the screen-space reflections tend to have distracting artifacts. In return, you get mostly 60 FPS with occasional slight stutter
This is another sign that the current crop of consoles isn't ready for ray tracing. The feature is just too GPU intensive. Remove RT and performance suddenly becomes very smooth, with an acceptable loss in the graphical department.
Not watched yet, but hoping the Series X version is now playable enough to finally play through this game using a preowned physical copy (EA don't deserve any money after the botched performance). Refunded twice on PC -- most recently yesterday -- as the game is fundamentally a mess there due to the traversal/shader comp stutter. Even when I drop my 4070ti/13600k/32GB DDR5 rig down to low settings, disable RTX and use DLSS 3 Performance @ 1440p it cannot even lock to 60fps due to the stuttering that loading different areas causes.
Judging by how close this game got to 60 FPS with ray-tracing I'm hoping the next batch of upgraded consoles will be able to do it more consistently at a higher resolution.
*Grass,shadows,Texture & AO POPING IN is WAY MORE DISTRACTING and immersion removing than absence of reflections on glass or or artifacts that are way less than the noise artifacts of RT, especially when playing on a large TV screen, 40-60 fps can be resolved with VRR and/or frame generation*
Sometimes the non raytraced light looks more constrasty which I actually prefer. I noticed that often with rt lighting. The water reflections however are unacceptable imo
Whoever thought putting Ray Tracing in Performance Mode was a good idea, needs to get booted off the team. Not only was the frames bad, but that low resolution made it so much worse.
The problem was that ray tracing was forced on to the player in performance mode. Spiderman PS5 and Miles Morales (and prob other games) showed it was possible to have a standard performance mode and an RT Performance mode that both have stable 60fps. But really, the game should just have been delayed to give developers more time.
@@tyrcipher8811 Yea that was a weird choice. They clearly worked hard on a great game, but failed to properly test it. It's possible they didn't care, but surely no developer wants bad publicity? Just confusing all around.
It makes no sense for games to be pushing higher resolution and trying to put all the bells and whistles into that high resolution and then crap on frame rate. 30fps completely takes the point away for having higher resolution with all the trimmings if your picture’s being blurred with a screen door every time you move around. I’ve always favored frame rate over peak resolution. It’s smoother and always looks better no matter what anybody else tries to say. This performance mode now is exactly what it should’ve been on launch. I really feel developers need to get away from doing a high quality resolution mode if it’s only going to lock at 30 FPS. It’s absolutely pointless…
Yeah, I don't get why anyone would want their game to run at 4K30 or whatever, unless it's specifically to take screenshots. What's the point of having more detail, if all that detail disappears as soon as the camera starts to move? It's still good to offer a 30fps mode, however, as some people do care about it. Having more options doesn't hurt!
I just fired this up on PS5 last week after waiting since launch and the amount of upper screen tearing on the Performance Mode was just atrocious. Still an unplayable performance mode IMO.
If Insomniac can optimize Spider-Man 2 with ray tracing and 120fps, I know that Respawn can optimize Survivor if they put a little bit more time and effort.
Hello everyone, I come to you to find out if you too are having problems loading textures and shadows in some places. I also have white artifacts that appear when I turn the camera in dark places. I am on a Samsung tv neoqled qn90b and series x with game mode enabled so vrr etc etc
@Silencer85Here I also noticed that it was especially present in the jedi temples where darkness reigns! I don't want to sound valuable, but these visual issues take me completely out of the game. I am well aware that it is increasingly difficult to optimize games with such a demanding graphic rendering (especially in very open areas). But it bothers me deeply because I never know if it's a problem with my TV or my console, it's a recurring problem in our era of modern gaming. We find ourselves more and more facing broken games, whether with the settings of TV and HDR I feel like I'm struggling as much as computer programming haha (it must be said that I am a poor connoisseur in ^^ technology). Long gone are the days when you just had to turn on your console and play without taking your head
I like both and always look forward to ray tracing & 60 fps on new games, but if the two can't be together I will always choose performance over visuals. You hear game developers?
agreed, I can only think of two games that melded ray tracing and 60fps Metro Exodus -current gen version and ditto Fortnite. That's not alot of games.
Honestly , in some ways the newer non-raytraced perf mode looks better to me from what I see here. There is more contrast in the scene, more shadow, and it gives more depth imho.
Picked this up on PS5 the other day and there have been quite a few bugs and artifact issues that iv started recording and uploading to youtube. There are still areas that halt your progress and you have to reload your save.
Glad they're making improvements but I still can't keep a consistent 60 in the open world planets on my laptop. Meanwhile I can run Fallen Order well above 100 fps consistently.
Are we back to a near 60fps lock being preferable again? DF defended 30fps in Starfield because it was a "creative decision" and now we're finding out that creativity isn't all that. After the Eurogamer review, another two points drop on Metacritic and Todd's masterpiece will be tied with indie Soulslike Lies of P.
Difference is starfield will be a game played for years and years with additional content stories sequels and even tv shows for sure as it has great lore.. 10 hour corridor shooters you forget the next day everyone has its ups and downs
People need to understand that Consoles will need another 2 generations to even get NATIVE 4K and 60+fps. RT is just not going to be possible on consoles at this rate because it is still new and to taxing for these consoles for the price.
This just gives more fuel to the argument that ray-tracing is overvalued. I'm one of those who can see and appreciate the benefits in image quality and ambience, but I'd always rather have amazing performance in the games I play.
Why don’t they give the option to adjust more settings so you can choose what sacrifices you want to make? It works on PC. They could maybe do their own presets but still allow more granular control. It’ll even help if they release more powerful consoles in the future.
It's so ridiculous that Nvidia has convinced us that real-time raytracing makes a huge difference yet even now I'm struggling to see how the old performance mode looks better in any way
Because this game does ray tracing terribly, ray tracing also isn't that necessary for a game like this where you're outside in nature so often, during the day. Only real reflections are puddles and some windows, vs a big city like Night City with windows and puddles everywhere you look
For me, this is the biggest example that we really don't need ray tracing on consoles right now, especially if the visual difference is small, but it will greatly harm game performance.
I agree... for the amount of extra graphics power required, i'd rather put that towards better models/architecture or frame rates. Seems like a luxury feature for when we have properly overkill GPU's.
As someone who held off on getting the game due to performance issues I might purchase it on PS5 now that the game has a stable 60 FPS performance mode. I don't really care that RTX was removed considering it vastly improved the FPS in performance mode. Going from 30-40 FPS in performance mode to a stable 60 FPS is a massive improvement in my eyes and does entice me to purchase the game. As others have said, I play in performance mode for high FPS and not graphic fidelity. I always expect 55-60 FPS for the most part from performance mode in games, not 30-45 FPS. I feel like now that the game has a working and stable 60 FPS performance mode, it'll get better reception, though it might be a bit too late.
I would still go with the 30FPS ray tracing mode, because it just looks so damn good...and it's a very stable 30. That being said, I completely get wanting 60 FPS in an action game like this. I played it on PC...and I was very disappointed with my jittery 40-50, to where I was about to uninstall and revisit after some patches. Then I found a DLSS 3 mod. A literal game changer! My FPS doubled to 100+, and I couldn't stop playing. Now I hear they finally have DLSS built in
