Star Wars: The Clone Wars Does Not Hold Up (Part 1) 

You got it

What's being missed exactly? I figured the point was that Anakin's history as a slave should inform his character a little more than not at all, which doesn't seem all that contentious to me. All it amounts to in the prequels is effectively the need for a pod race scene to get him off Tatooine, and obviously TCW did nothing but tease the thought of doing something with that part of his life. I do have a bit of a bone to pick with the idea that slavery should necessarily be portrayed as 24/7 suffering all day, every day. The fact that slavery is fundamentally distasteful to our individualistic values leads to a lot of misinterpretation and misrepresentation of the actual practice. The only slaves that were actually treated like dirt 24/7 were mining and farming slaves, and that's because they were used for mindless labor anyone with working limbs could do, so they were a dime a dozen and needed to be worked like dogs to get your money's worth considering their "maintenance" costs. Household servants and especially skilled craftsmen, however, often had standards of living not all that different from their free citizen counterparts. You can't just whip a blacksmith into working faster or better because you don't know the craft and can't really tell if he's making the best he can or intentionally sabotaging a product because he hates you, and if you could tell then you wouldn't need the slave in the first place. You could hire a free blacksmith to oversee his work, but at that point why not just hire him to DO the work? Paying a dude to run around with a whip to keep several dozen laborers in line is a far cry from paying a skilled craftsmen to oversee a single/small number of crafstmen because you feel like working them 20hrs a day regardless of the quality of their work rather than treating them like a human. The economics just don't work out. It's also a pretty bad idea to make the people serving your food and medicine and who are intimately aware of your personal life hate you. So when it comes to, say, Anakin, who does menial tasks and skilled mechanical work, Watto really doesn't benefit from just beating him senseless and making his life a misery to satisfy some petty power indulgence. He's a businessman and wants his slaves productive, there's no reason their relationship HAS to be antagonistic just because Watto technically owns him. This is all to say that we shouldn't be reducing slavery in fiction to, "it's always bad and nothing but bad, the end". There's WAY more we can do with the subject, even if there's also plenty to do with the unjust aspect of it that should be a primary motivation for Anakin given that he becomes a man characterized by a pathological/authoritarian obsession with order and justice. When Anakin reunites with Watto in AotC, Watto seems genuinely happy to see him. He probably saw himself as something of a father figure to him, not at all unreasonable considering that he factually was his most prominent male role model. It's perfectly believable that Watto might've treated Anakin more fairly/nicely than other slaves because whatever his moral failings, he probably still has SOME capacity for empathy and a desire to not make the lives of fatherless slave children any more miserable than they need to be. You can do something with that. Have Anakin be way more vindictive about their former relationship than Watto is. Anakin obviously has justification for it given he was the slave, but make it clear that he's just flat-out misrepresenting their history to justify his anger. Watto can bring up how Anakin's childhood wasn't nearly as bad as it could've been with a different owner and that there were plenty of non-slave children on Tatooine that had it as bad or worse. He can bring up a whole bunch of little things he did for Anakin at no benefit to himself because like any normal person he doesn't like to see kids hating their lives. He can mention all kinds of facts and Anakin just doesn't care. He doesn't want to hear it. Slavery kept his mother from him for most of his life and Watto facilitated it, so he's the villain. That scene can be used to showcase the whole reason he turns to the dark side: he is personally traumatized by injustice such that he closes himself off from all the nuance that needs to be considered to actually solve it and just divides the world into just and unjust; that which must be preserved and that which must be crushed. Or you could do something entirely different. Have him be a labor slave living in absolute misery 24/7. Have the jedi be absolutely horrified that such a thing is happening anywhere in the galaxy and free him as a moral imperative to do SOMETHING against it while they're on Tattooine. Have them genuinely want to go back to free his mother at the least, but by the time the jedi council can convince the slow, bloated bureaucracy of the Republic to fork over the cash, she's already been worked to death. He could easily conclude that his mother died because the Republic wasn't invested enough in imposing order and justice on lawless worlds. That the greatest tragedies of his life never would've happened if Tattooine was forced to comply with Republic law by whatever means necessary. That every second spent considering the complexities of expanding Republic rule effectively and efficiently is another second of pointless suffering for millions of people on lawless worlds. The point being, there's much more to slavery than mistreatment by owners and thus much more that can be done with it.

not all forms of slavery has to be whipping and chains. indentured servitude was more common practice than chattel slavery in times of antiquity

I Love Sla.... Democracy

Uh oh, the ''slavery wasnt always bad'' bros are already here I see.

To be fair the "you're shorter than I expected" line in episode 3 was pretty bad

Well that's true, but at the same time, it's only a nit pick. Nit picks are nit picks, and they're easy to ignore or not even notice in the first place.

@@XavierDaSalla Nah, the “shorter than I expected” line was pretty cool, mostly because of Hayden’s delivery

​@@KingSlayer_.That's not a not pick kiddo... That's a pretty big issue for the canon....

@@KingSlayer_. It completely invalidates a line in the movie. You're right in that it doesn't ruin the enjoyment of the scene, but it shows how lopsided their creative priorities were.

I’m already pissed. LETS GO!!!

Not me. I've always thought the Clone Wars TV show was a little bit overrated.

@@SpFlash1523Same. I figured that it's mostly popular because of nostalgia.

This is gonna be so much fun to watch unfold

@@Lobsterwithinternet Yeah shows mostly had through the first two seasons save for a couple arcs.

Maul still should've never returned. It was interesting to see him back because he had a cool demon design but outside of that he was just a one note character George literally made to just function as a final boss that dies.

I mean, it might've been shocking to the teenage audience who already thought the "red double lightsaber man was totes rad and cool", sure. But there's nothing to be gained by bringing him back from the dead except a revenge arc (yawn) or a redemption arc (no way that was happening). He's designed as a one dimensional character for a movie fight, and they brought him back under such awful pretenses and gloss over how he survived such a ridiculous scenario as being literally bisected and then fall down a miles long tube with "well too angry to die dark side powers lol". Like, the whole "too angry to die" meme with certain characters like Doom Slayer is funny because it's baked into their core as a character. But Maul didn't have ANYTHING to work with as far as the movies were concerned. And the show doesn't do him any favors going forward. Absolute lame fan service.

​@@PANCAKEMINEZZ"Too angry to die" has its place in Star Wars. It's sort of par for the course for Dark side users. I mean, just look at Sion from KOTOR II. Dark side users are repeatedly and consistently mutilated or chopped up yet continue to persist because of the Dark side (or I guess because the plot demands it)... yet you can have people like Qui-Gon who is just stabbed in the tummy and dies, so I don't think Maul surviving is as far fetched as you're implying. Though I do agree with what OP is saying, it's a bit silly how everyone can survive lightsaber wounds and/or comes back to life. I'm sure that eventually we'll see Mace Windu returning, somehow.

@@pyerackI’m glad he returned because of that

@@Dylan-xx2tk bad comparison. Sion from KOTOR II is a totally different beast from Darth Maul the Sith assassin who was literally cleaved in half and had blood spatter out from his intestines. Bringing him back was stupid, shoddy storytelling and screams of creative bankruptcy, which we now know is par for the course with Dave Filoni. TCW turned Star Wars into Marvel, when Star Wars was never Marvel and never meant to be Marvel.

I remember how during the Inhibitor Chip Arc that Fives was with that droid the entire time and I thought they were going to touch on the similarities between the two. While I think it was IMPLIED at the end, they never really adressed it like I hoped they would. Just a single short convo about it would have been enough but they didn't. I've noticed that that's kinda the problem with most of star wars. A lot of motivations and development seem to be implied but never properly adressed, and with some slight tweaks it would improve the franchise so much.

It’s made for kids, not for boring adults, who peel it apart with logic…

​@@MappingEagle thats what andor does so well. Actually treats you like an adult. Good stuff

​@@ncard00 how does wanting logic and depth in stories= boring? How old are you? 8?

@ncard00 for kids? That is a pathetic argument. Batman TAS was 4 kids but it was not bloody boring!

It was frankly bizarre how underdeveloped he was in TCW, it legit felt like Feloni and friends flat out hated the character or something. Not only was he a one-dimension mustache-twirler who ran away at every chance he got and was a horrible commander despite supposedly being a tactical genius, but he can't even fight worth a damn. It was to the point where I was genuinely surprised when he managed to defeat Kit Fisto's padawan. But frankly for a show that loves to point out how flawed the Jedi are, you'd think that a character who has a deep seated hatred for the Jedi as a result of their blindly carrying out the Republic's orders instead of understanding the situation would be a fantastic way to showcase how the Jedi have lost their way and how they created one of their worst enemies through their mistakes. Hell it could also serve as an interesting tie-in for Rush Clovis's arc. As someone who is dedicated to the Banking Clan and believes those who raised him are good people, how would he react to the revelation that Dooku and the Banking Clan intentionally crippled Grievous in order to turn him into their loyal enforcer, selectively picking which memories he was allowed to keep in order to ensure he was singularly focused on destroying the Jedi.

And they retconned mace crushing his chest into that gungan bullshit

I mean, the character was pretty consistent to what Lucas had him be in Revenge of the Sith. Honestly, I want to say that the EU material involving him that came out pre-RotS played a major part in giving people the wrong idea about him, especially since the guys working on that EU material wouldn't have known much aside from whatever concept art of the character was finished at the time. Creative divergence spun from a lack of communication that can be somewhat pinned on Grievous still being under development at the time with nothing precisely concrete.

​​@@Hellaframes Also, they retconned nothing aside from Grievous always having a cough, which isn't even a retcon to begin with since the idea in Revenge of the Sith was that he was an imperfect cyborg; more or less created as a mirror in general for what Anakin would become in that regard, which I've seen someone make a case for Dooku and Maul being that as well.

Have you ever heard about the tragedy of General Greivous the Clankest? Its not a story TCW fans would tell you. He was able to onetap Sha'agy, but he couldn't save himself from the gungans and younglings.

That's how many characters are in the Disney shows: Boba Fett, Fennec Shand, Reeeva, Bill Burr. Even that robot in Mando.

We should not forget Vader himself, too.

Kylo Ren. (I literally had to look that up because I forgot his name, and plus I don't even know what was going on in the last movie so I'm not sure whether he turned good.)

@@-taz- even in the clone wars bo becomes a different character

If she had a conscience she would have killed herself after the bullshit she had caused.

She wore a mini skirt everyday so we told her there were no panties in space

A fine piece of jail bait in a more civilized age.

@@loserinasuit7880 💀

My God man, get help.

This is a reference to the Obi Wan AI generated video of him talking about Ahsoka 😂

It’s such a good idea. He suffers a tragedy in war…classic set up for a fall to the dark side. Literally the entire premise of the KOTOR games.

except the fact that this is a kids show + ahsoka went on to be a main franchise character which helped so many other characters like thrawn, the rebel crew and many develop their characters more

@@SecretsssI’m gonna need you to define the meaning of “help” if by help you mean made a mockery of the canon and ruined several characters then hell yea brother she helped tf outta them.

​@@Secretsssyou mean ruined

Because Anakin is such a good undercover agent, am I right? That's why he isn't let in on the whole Hardeen debacle, because he has such good control of his inner feelings....... oh

I thought they made the scene seem sad was because before she died, she claimed that Anakin was still a slave. It was more towards his feelings towards the order

@@helenwhs Comparing some random slave queen bitch to the death of his master, brother, and best friend? They wanted to keep Anakin in the dark because they knew how he'd react. It would sell the idea of Kenobi being dead even more. Lying through their teeth when they said "he wouldn't be able to control his emotions".

He LITERALY says that he doesn't care about this slaver scum.

@@shadowmandeathstroke8232 That’s actually a good point. That is true because Anakin is always a slave. He’s not free until he kills the Emporer

Fire idea. I wish there was more justification behind that youngling scene. I like that Anakin himself had to do something absolutely irredeemable personally, but like... it just came out of no where, as Sheev said, lol

​@@techzone1552I disagree. There's mulitple ways to justify it. Anakin could think there’s no way to save the younglings, because they'll either be hunted down by the clones or others. Or that he thinks that the Jedi are so bad that the only way to "save" the younglings is by killing them, in a very twisted view of saving them. Or maybe he just hates the Jedi that much already.

Interesting thought but in the end your idea just waters down the stronger concept of Anakin just doing it himself. Your idea is more like when Kylo was about to kill Leia, but decided not to, but then the other fighters do it anyway. It would have been better to just have Kylo do it.

@@-Patali- the difference is that Kylo seemed to not fire at the last second. Whereas here, with Anakin, hes stopping himself from actively stopping the troopers. Perhaps even have one of the padawan call out to him, which causes him to start to move only to stop and realise that he cant. He needs to save his wife so he let's the troopers kill the padawans. That theres evidently conflict but the idea is that, unlike Kylo who stopped himself from killing his mother, Anakin stopped himself from saving the padawans

I can't believe it needs to be said, but when he kills the younglings he's Darth Vader, not Anakin. Not that it really matters, because Anakin was an asshole all along. If anything is wrong about the legacy of the Anakin Skywalker story at all is that he's seen as sympathetic. He's not, he's a monster and was always going to be one. He was a feckless, weak murderer. He always was, but when he becomes Vader there's no remorse. There should be no excuses or apologies for him and it's pretty sickening how far people will bend over backwards in an attempt to do so.

Man…Durge was so cool lol

Instead we have to read comics :/

They didn't have the budget

Didn't they create Cad Bane to kinda replace that wild mercenary character that would have been Durge? What a fucking downgrade man

@@RingoSkye because they didn't have the budget to do durge

Trust me he ain’t the only one besides you who sees it 😂 I been saying this to people for years

We should give him is own moniker like “jake sky walker” or something

I think that’s because Hayden’s portrayal sucked. It was acceptable in Episode 3 and horrendous in Episode 2. CW’s interpretation feels different and seems closer to what Lucas intended for Anakin but couldn’t execute

Thats my favorite part of the show, i feel he is done way better here, kinda sad they cant finish his arc cause that happens in ROTS

They tried to make anakin cool, but to me he never need to be. He is not supposed to be "cool" he is supposed to be tragic and socially awkward

Especially since ashoka already had a friend in the lore (scout).

I didn't even know that barris was in the movies.

@@matthiuskoenig3378 Who is her friend?

So weird. Just give her a new Apprentice?

@@Grandof-the-PentastarAlignment scout aka Tallisibeth Enwandung-Esterhazy

Soooo true. It would have been so much better and make more sens

Not anymore, thanks to retconning Filoni. Barriss is now 14, not 19. WHYYYY?

That's right. "Improve the prequels" would've included showing a realistic network or potential to have a network, and maybe his lack of friends (that don't just stroke his ego and bring out the good in him) could've been a part of his fall. That's another weird thing about the Clone wars I will never get. Jedi are growing up around each other, and would share similar interests and values, and would naturally be friends. -- And I don't want to hear some retard say that isn't allowed: 1) Buddhist monks make friends in the temple, 2) Luke was never told to not have friends. --

Or assassinating her character entirely with the temple bombing.

​@@ECSOrder66Filoni likes em young

Along with that, they grossly diminish the CIS as a legitimate threat by having the Republic constantly win over the course of the series. How are we supposed to be intimidated by an antagonist who can’t gain a full victory half the time? It’s pretty much the same problem Kylo Ren had on a much bigger scale

CIS legit just enslaves every planet that sides with them, they're as evil if not more than the Empire lol

The changes to the clones and Geonosians felt pretty cowardly. Order 66 had the complicated morality of child-soldiers (who kind of seem like indoctrinated slaves) turning on comrades in the name of the government whose allegiance was drilled into them from birth. (Or from cloning pod. However you call it). The issue is that George Lucas never intended for the clones to be the unironic heroes in a children’s show. (Or if they were, this wouldn’t be the first time he didn’t think out the ethical implications of something in his movies). They were suppose to be a warning about people being raised like the Spartans of old would end up becoming tools for fascism. Instead, we got an Evil Mode biochip. The scenario becomes the Treehouse of Horror skit with the Krusty Doll. No morale questions or logic, just a switch set to “kill.” The Geonosians started as a species of individuals who just happened to be insects. CW turned them into a “Queen leading a hive mind” setup. Besides that being SO played out in sci-fi, it’s just a cop-out so the protagonists can kill them without looking bad. And it doesn’t match up with why their leader is clearly and old male like Poggle.

I’m fine with making the CIS look evil, so it will make sense that the Jedi would fight them, but the Republic was literally supposed to be “becoming the Empire” during the Clone Wars. It should become progressively more and more authoritarian, until you can tell that it’s just like the Empire.

Yeah, as much as people say it “isn’t a kids show”, they definitely stripped away much of the nuance from everything I’ve even heard a theory that TCW is actually a Republic propaganda show to make the CIS look incompetent and evil, and the Jedi and Republic look good (obviously certain scenes like Palpatine being evil wouldn’t be included)

NAH 💀

Maul: "Door goes woosh/slice lol"

Ahsoka Wayne: "I won't kill you. But I don't have to save you."

😂😂

“I won’t kill the clones, but I will release the dude who staged a coup and took over the legitimate government of Mandalore, ran a criminal empire, and brutally killed more people than I can count. Because I’m a good guy!”

yeah maul kills them not her XD completely different... kinda

Grevious in Tarkovsky was an absolute BEAST!

Agreed. And it makes me sad that so many people are unaware of it or just disregard it as "TCW, but with less content." Genndywars feels like a true Star Wars 2.5, and was created within that context. TCW feels like an excessively long fanfiction by comparison

They should have retconned the war lasting more than 3 years. I mean, conquering and liberating hundreds of planets take some time anyway. In this case we could have kept a large chunk of the 2003 cartoon (until Anakin becoming a Jedi Knight), then we could have introduced Ahsoka and starting the animated series. . If I remember correctly, there's already a time jump between knighting Anakin and the Outer Rim sieges that is immediately before episode 3, so there would have been room to expand the original idea further instead of rewriting the whole thing. I don't exactly know how much such a change (the war lasting for 5 years instead of 3) would have altered what the other media established (books, comics), but I personally headcanon things like this to be honest and it also makes the war more bloody and mentally/phisically tolling, creating the illusion of a really endless war (Palpatine is in charge of both parties, so time doesn't really matter to him I guess.), not to mention character developments. Also, considering WW1 lasted for 4 years (+2 years of chaos) and WW2 lasted for 6 years (+2 years of chaos), a 3-year-long galactic war that changed the entire history of the galaxy so drastically just doesn't seem to be... realistic for me. Not to mention Anakin fought on a different planet in every 2 or 3 episodes simply because they won on the previous one. Like how?

fr. Tho that's most likely cuz it was made before Star Wars 3

Well too bad you're wrong the 2003 series is garbage 😊

And that is something that Dave Filoni chooses to ignore. That’s why I dislike The Father as a concept…

@@paradox2210 the whole mortis shit is super lame and breaks so much canon. Easily the worst part of TCW.

@@keshonhend2047 Yeah. Filoni wants us to believe that The Father being 'balance' means he’s 'not light and not dark and just in the middle' or something stupid like that. We’re also expected to believe that The Son, being an embodiment of darkness, had lived 100% peacefully with The Daughter, an embodiment of light, for THOUSANDS OF YEARS before Anakin shows up.

@@paradox2210well, they did, it’s in the show

@@soybajo-kira8585 What kind of argument is that? Just because the show says something doesn’t mean that it makes logical sense. The Father conceptually makes no sense as he is designed based upon the false notion that 'balance' in the force is both light and dark when balance is actually a complete absence of darkness. The Son and The Daughter having lived peacefully for thousands of years makes no sense as the darkness and the light are supposed to always be in conflict until the light surpasses the dark. Edit: fixed spelling

Because "plot"

Because she changed and is trying to stop Maul now. You sure? She never wanted him to rule it.

finally someone said it, thank you 🙏

Bo is just racist to Zabraks

True. True. True

Oh, good. Now you understand why I and many others like The Last Jedi.

@@Halo_Legend as a stand alone movie it’s fine, as how it fits into the trilogy, or even just follows up on the what was built by TFA if you wanna make the same argument in its defense against Rise (which is an even worse movie tbf) it’s just shit

@@Halo_LegendI’ve got a brother who enjoys and defends the sequels, especially the last Jedi, so I understand that people can enjoy the movie, however I cannot see myself ever having fun with it, it’s not even dumb nitpicks or even actual plot criticisms that stop me I just have some sort of adverse reaction to the movie, it’s the only Star Wars movie that makes me actively mad watching it… So good on you that you don’t have that problem and can enjoy it while I am cursed to despise it.

@@loganmapes2307 Honestly, looking back on it, it should have been its own one-off movie. Like literally everything inside the movie was set up and resolved, the thing that made it hated was because it messed up the trilogy that was set up by being smack dab in the center when it carries more of a finale vibe. I mean imagine if instead of making the second part of the doomed sequel trilogy, Rian was set to direct a stand alone story that doesn't directly involve our favorite characters (kind of like Rogue One) and did his subverting of expectations there? The blow would have been much softer due to it being a stand-alone story, heck, Star Wars fans might have been more fond of it if it was just a stand-alone story about one ship trying to escape the first order.

@@bananarama1425 agreed

Says who

The revenge of the sith novel, in the deleted scenes, he is responsible for the death of jedi master Shaak Ti, the battle of hypori, hundreds of lore battles were ignored which showed the ruthless and capable commander ​@@SamuelCollins

You could argue that slavery doesn't really violate "peace", honestly. Trying to abolish slavery across a galaxy though... But regardless isn't it kinda the point that the Jedi are kinda hypocrites? Or at least just not being as good as they should be.

Because the Jedi are beholden to the senate and not their code after the Vallorum reformations

Because the republic is corrupt and the Jedi have grown complacent. That’s why the Jedi were destroyed in the end

Name a single free society that never owned slaves

@@anon2427 By society do you mean a continuous government? Because there are plenty of governments out there that have never owned slaves in their history.

The details in the novels retcon the movies, though, same as Clone Wars. Having Anakin demand to be a Master because of secret Jedi knowledge to save Padme makes him more reasonable, but Anakin already said as early as AotC he hates the Jedi because they won't treat him like he's special and give him a promotion. The novel makes him sound like he's worried about Padme when the previous movie shows he primarily craves power and status and privilege. This is a huge problem with using the novels as canon. They rewrite Anakin as much as the animated series does. Sheev Talks is confused about Anakin killing Jedi children, but notice how he readily admits Anakin MURDERED ALL OF THE TUSKEN CHILDREN. The point of him killing Jedi children is that Anakin is already the kind of person who will kill your children in revenge for something you did. The Tusken children are just as innocent as the Jedi children and Anakin doesn't care. It's also coloring how Sheev Talks discusses Palpatine as "leveling" with Anakin. Palpatine isn't being honest, he's telling Anakin what he wants to hear because the truth is that Anakin is a terrible Jedi. This also kind of ruins the reading of Mace. Mace keeps being treated as embodying the failures of the Jedi, except Mace is the only Jedi to protest them being conscripted into the military to fight a war. His distrust of Anakin is completely valid because teenage Anakin is a serial killer who hates democracy.

That RotS novel is absolutely amazing. Unfortunately, it has to kinda play fast and loose with the story depicted in the movie because it's trying to make sense out of the sheer nonsense of the movie. Yeah, I said it. RotS is a bad movie. The only reason why people praise it is because it's a 6/10 whereas tPM and AotC were 4/10 at best.

@@MrBazBake unaliving younglings made way less sense than unaliving Tusken children, though both are of course morally depraved. Anakin really should have seen himself in those younglings, while Tusken children just looked like his mother's killers (afaik he didn't know any Tuskens). ig my best explanation (not having read the novelizations) is that Anakin was just willing to follow through with anything Palpatine told him to do because of his lies about saving Padmé. why is hating democracy deserving of distrust? late Republic-era Star Wars does a pretty good job of showing the many faults of democratic government. Windu himself would be a bit loony if he had no misgivings about the structure of the Republic following the beginning of the Clone Wars that u rightly admit he opposed as well as the concentration of power in the Chancellor. i do agree with u overall that the Star Wars canon is a complete mess and seems to have been a free-for-all since the original trilogy. can the countless contradictions even be described as retcons? does the 2008 series overtake the prequel films where they seem to contradict?

⁠@@MrBazBake”the novel makes it sound like he’s worried about Padmé when the previous showed he primarily craves power, status, and privilege” he spends the ROTS movie being worried about Padmé anyway, that’s literally his whole motivation for the things he does during it

@@syedshahrukhraza2923 "...it's trying to make sense out of the sheer nonsense of the movie." No, it doesn't. The novel was released before the movie.

I mean yeah it’s fine to like EU over TCW but you do realize there’s an official pre-Disney canon hierarchy right? Movies then shows then books

Yes but that was put in place specifically so Filoni and the show could do whatever they wanted. It should be removed from the Legends continuity and left in only the Disney canon

@@peetsaman8889 Sure, but when you work something into your continuity so you can completely retcon how it functions within the universe at large- for example, retconning the Dathomiri to be their own species instead of a colony of tribal humans, and retconning the Zabraks to be from here instead of Iridonia- which did all kinds of chaos with the lore of Eeth Koth, Maul, the Nightsisters, and the old Republic continuity- you've basically used the lore to desecrate the lore. Like how modern Star Wars tries to claim Thrawn is still the terror he was in legends, but they've removed what made him that way: his anonymity, his wealth of knowledge, his secret manipulation of the existing imperial factions, and his ingenuity with technology like cloaking shields and life-forms like the Noghri and the Ysalimiri.

While it is irritating, Lucas did it all the time. He did have final say on what did and did not go into the show. And before anyone says something, no, being the creator doesn’t make it okay to break your own continuity.

@@user-pv3nh5rd1m Ridley Scott: :\ BTW I completely agree.

You could also add some parallels to Padme’s death, which would give Anakin something more solid than “it was revealed to me in a dream”

You know what's weird? Ahsoka was promised to be killed by Season 2's end. It was in the Star Wars insider, she was specifically stated in it with an interview with Lucas that she was supposed to be killed off as 'internal closure for Jar Jar and Little Anakin haters' when the show came out. The interviewers even stated she was 'intentionally annoying' etc.

No I actually like the original idea, that she survives order 66 by nothing but an ironic twist of fate.

@@WereScrib Season 2??? 😂

@@harrambou9468Yep, literally. She was supposed to die in 'season 2' according to early interviews (Mind you I think it was planned that the series was only going to be three seasons long)

Agreed!

I mean it’s kinda hard for it NOT to lol

It's the surperior version of CW for me. It's so good and connects beautifully with the films without changing them. You can never go wrong with Genndy!

Not only that, it’s…fucking awesome.

Agreed. CWMMP >>>>>> TCW.

I don't mind that Anakin has an apprentice and they actually do have a pretty good reason for why. In-Universe, it's to teach Anakin to be more patient and to let go of attachment. Out-of-universe, it's to make Anakin more likeable due to his bad reputation from the movies and much more of an "older brother" figure to the young audience. The problem is that Anakin's voice and personality is inconsistent. His personality in TCW is a mix between Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. That's actually the direction they told Matt Lanter (Anakin's voice actor) to go with. Anakin from the movies and CWMMP is introverted and mentally unbalanced, while the Anakin in TCW is down-to-earth and extroverted. Anakin in the movies has a much higher voice with slight mid-atlantic accent and a monotone speaking pattern to the point of nearly mumbling, while Anakin in TCW has a deeper voice with a typical American accent and speaks much more confidently. To make a comparison, Movie Anakin is the shy bookish type while TCW Anakin is the star quarterback of the football team.

​@cantnevercould9660 j See, I can't see the Canon reasons as sensible. They're in a war. It's just a terrible time to become responsible for a child in general, and I don't know how giving someone care of a person they *must* be attached to for that person's own healthy development is going to help someone overcome attachment. I can't think of a culture that gives young unstable soldiers needy children to care for over a period of several years as a way to help them learn to let go. Unless we're going super dark here and the whole point was for ahsoka to die. Teaching a padawan is heavily implied to be a decade long investment at the least. Obi-Wan was still a padawan at 23-ish. And since padawans follow their masters everywhere, it's a full time, fully-dedicated, long term important commitment. Also, this is just my personal take. But I always read movie Anakin more as sullen than shy. He's pretty outspoken, to me, it's just his voice isn't loud or harsh. But he never seemed shy or studious to me. I always saw him as reckless, stubborn, impatient, greedy, and insecure. That was always just my personal read on him - but I agree that tcw Anakin is a whole different person sort of sharing his backstory.

Holy moly this would’ve been so much more interesting than what we ended up getting in the show

@@cantnevercould9660 The dude who plays Anakin in TCW played a rapist murderer football player on Heroes, which makes that comparison a little too apt.

Okay, this would be amazing, especially if Obi-Wan basically dumps Ahsoka onto Anakin at every opportunity to teach him responsibility, only for Anakin to view every interaction like he's babysitting her.

but clones never saw themselves as slaves. if you never see freedom, you never miss it. clones only knew one thing: white, sterile environment, people telling them what to do, learning how to fight and serve an ominous "Republic". Why would they miss something they dont know?

Clones aren’t slaves?

​@Jedi_Johnny Of course a jedi would say that lol

​@Jedi_Johnny They pretty much are. They were bred and raised for the sole purpose to live and die serving the Republic. Cut's desertion and Slick's betrayal clearly showed that they do not have a choice in the matter

I hate how I didn’t get a miniscule reaction from Anakin about Slick. He should have some kind of heated argument with Obiwan and jedi council.

And 50/50 on the truth of the matter”chosen one”. The father, daughter and son are actually a tease to the previously introduced Mother that Luke fought.

Schaffrillas doesn't know this

I'll say that the CWMMP is vastly superior to this Clone Wars TV show by miles

I love the microseries. So good. 👍 The Multi-Media Project was good as a whole. Quinlan Vos>>> TCW’s version.

NGL, the fight between Ventress and Anakin being set on Yavin 4 is a really nice touch. The same worlds conquered by Jedi-turned-Sith like Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun. Both ambitious men that Anakin would eventually resemble.

Give Gendy Tartakovsky (also responsible for Samurai Jack) the credit he deserves as an artist, amazing series and one of the best Star Wars pieces of media EVER. It's amazing how that series, as a bridge between ep. 2 and 3, managed how to tell amazing stories in a short amount of time, before ep. 3 even released, what a great preparation.

That series did more with Grievous in a 20-second training sequence than TCW did with 6 seasons. The most obvious criticism of it is that it is mostly an excuse for action scenes and yet it STILL manages to have more substance than FIloni's version and fit in better with the established canon.

You sir are 100% right

Hey hey JJ Plagiarisms!

This is JJ Abrams

@@user-ux8ey5oi5i lol

dont forget the part where ahsoka took a droid gunship blaster shot and just shruged it of like it was nothing

I think you missed the point. Saw Gerrera is portrayed as a densitized himbo who can’t make sense of why the people aren’t rallying with them. His sister obviously realizes the distraught the violence causes but does not want to bring Saw’s spirit down by telling him this or waste their time complicating the matter so instead she makes up the point of ”They do not believe we can succeed.” in order to channel Saw’s energy and effort better and solely to the cause without interruption. She is an effective leader and the person who understood how Saw thought and could control and channel his thoughts. After he lost her, he also started to slowly lose the plot as well.

@@kungolaf4499 I'd agree with you if it wasn't for that later in the episode,Steela was proven right. They said the power generator was responsible for powering the droids, and that destroying it would bring the droids to a standstill. They didn't mention that the generator was _also_ powering the whole city, and destroying it caused a citywide power outage. Hospitals, food storage, and everything else was without power for who knows how long. Despite this, the citizens were now cheering for the rebels doing the same thing as before, but at night. Your analysis isn't wrong, though, I'd just say that moment is a weak example. The himbo to Forest Whittaker pipeline is very real though, check on your himbos.

​@@lokay7233 the shot from the droid gunship wasn't at full power, but I bet it definitely still hurts.

@@merafirewing6591 dumbest explanation ever

I showed my wife the prequels and TCW in order, TPM, AOTC, TCW, and finished with ROTS. She agreed with all your points, she liked Anakin MORE in the movies than the show.

THANK YOU! Anakin wasn't a stable-minded war hero; he was a man who was traded from childhood slavery to abiding by the rules of strict space monks. He just wanted a normal life with a wife and kids, but he was being manipulated into believing that it would be taken away to the point where he did things that led to it out of his own lust for power. He had a tragic story because he wanted his own personal happiness, but everybody else wanted him to play their desired roles for him in the bigger picture. Side note: bringing Maul back was another mistake. He wasn't meant to be a fleshed-out character because he was merely a tool for Palpatine's plan. Before it was retconned, Obi-Wan was promoted to Jedi Master BECAUSE he'd killed the first Sith in 1,000 years.

I still say Clone Wars radicalized Star Wars fans at the worst possible time. When we're watching in the news that Americans are torturing people, often innocent, and experts keep repeating that torture is useless and the CIA reveals that torture revealed no actionable intel, The Clone Wars steps in two years later and says, "Torture and war crimes are good actually, see how much fun Anakin and Obi-Wan are having committing war crimes and crimes against humanity?" Filoni was the wrong guy to handle this material because he walked the fanbase back into Vader apologia through his BS destiny nonsense until fandom decided Anakin is the hero actually and nothing he did was bad 🤢🤮

I agree. The flaws he already had were okay. It made it believable that he was susceptible to the dark side, and how Palpatine was able to prey on his uncertainty and need for affirmation. Plus, at least in my opinion, the prequels are meant to work in context with the originals, because if you know the warnings and trials Luke faced (in Return of the Jedi), it's easier to see how Anakin failed. So that's why on their own the flaws of the writing make the story totally incoherent.

Anakin seemed stable to you in TCW? He certainly had a veneer of confidence, but that seems pretty easy to read as him putting on a front he learned to help keep up morale. Or maybe he did become genuinely confident for awhile only to get worn down by things like how strained his relationship with the order had become and worries about the visions he was having regarding Padme's death and withdraw into himself and become sullen. I feel like the way he was acting during the first act of RotS is pretty close to how he acted in the TV show, for example. With him showing off and being hyper confident about things like being able to pull off the maneuver he used to scrape those droids off Obi-Wan's ship. But yeah, he definitely was not stable. Look at things like him snapping and giving a prisoner of war a beat down to compel him to give out information, for example. His old flaws are still there in TCW, he just momentarily managed to get into a mental space where he could somewhat handle controlling them.

He’s a fraud from the start.

@@mazkeraid4039 True. Looking back at it, it is obvious that his previous worked because of the other people and giving him total control was a mistake.

Filoni getting control of Star Wars has eliminated any hope for the franchise. Star Wars at this point is pretty much a cursed IP.

@@daytonaofcv6856 just like halo lol

Wats funny is ppl say the prequels weren't as good as Lucas didn't have a team that overlooked him 😂. So we need Lucas to overlook filoni who needs to be looked by another team of writers and producers

Same I’ve been rewatching it recently as an adult and it isn’t nearly as good as I remembered

As someone who was too young to grow up with this series, I heard a lot of great things about it. Then I sat down and watched it. It was still pretty good at times, and the last four episodes of S7 were fantastic, but the previous seasons lacked a lot of coherency and overall quality.

@@taliablack4080Yeah. My experience is precisely the same. I really didn’t enjoy it all that much despite what people said.

Bro seriously? I rewatched it like 12 times😂 Shit goes so hard

I just finished rewatching the series in the chronological order, and besides a very few arcs, I enjoyed it more the second time around then the first.

For real. Everyone says it's amazing but it really isn't.

"somehow, Ahsoka came back"

Filoni introduces what's effectively fucking time travel, and something that could easily be used as an avenue for a "What If" series or just a weight to explore alternate story beats at all, and the only two times it's used it to save Ahsoka from death.

I believe they do this somewhat; This might have just been an old SWT video from years ago, but I vaguely remember something about Anakin's ROTS outfit being unfitting of a Jedi, as the dark robes and overall color palette are more befitting of the sith, where as the jedi wear the brown cloak/beige tunic

@@Nickster300003 I think you're sort of right. But when I saw RotS, I assumed they got a better wardrobe stylist, since they were annoyed at how every Jedi was dressed the same in AotC. I know Anakin's dark colours are supposed to be a symbol he's falling to the dark side, but his clothes are still very "jedi-like". I'm thinking the effect would have been more pronounced if someone (Mace Windu, for example) actually commented on his lack of decorum, or his style choice. Or if Obi Wan said somehting like "the Masters are expecting us, go change and we'll meet there" and then Anakin doesn't change. Something like that...

This is another reason why I wished they had used armor in Revenge of the Sith like we see them wear in TCW. You can have everyone wear their normal Jedi robes since they're not on the battlefield, but Anakin still wears his armor since he's now more of a warrior/soldier than a Jedi peacekeeper.

@@nagger8216 Yes, excellent point. The costuming should have included them wearing protective armor while on missions, and could have been used to great effect to show Anakin's gradual fall.

The Jedi are so incompetent its tragic.

Either way the Jedi were idiots.

I agree. The fact that the Council believed a jedi ordered the creation of an army was enough. They were not supposed to know who made it and that they were programmed to kill jedi, while season six shows it being outright discovered. It does make the jedi look stupid and *diminishes* the Order 66 scene bcoz they were supposed to be fooled and their best intentions being used against them. It's inferred that Palpatine has strong foresight and has sway on both sides. Also, that the Jedi were distracted by the war and *tragically* destroyed. The CW series makes the Jedi appear to embody sloth and lack all sense of self preservation bcoz Americans can't get enough of the "Ooh, big bad corporation" trope. In addition, I dont know if the CW Jedi going out of the Republics territory to resolve things is good or bad. On one hand it shows that the Jedi are taking initiative, but on the other hand it contradicts the whole "The Republic has no power here" line in Phantom Menace and could incriminate the Jedi and their allies. Or maybe Hutt space is worse than Zyggarian space........ ...we will never know.

The changes to the clones and their ‘allegiance’ felt cowardly. Order 66 had the complicated morality of child-soldiers (who kind of seem like indoctrinated slaves) turning on comrades in the name of the government whose allegiance was drilled into them from birth. (Or from cloning pod. However you call it). The issue is that George Lucas never intended for the clones to be the unironic heroes in a children’s show. (Or if they were, this wouldn’t be the first time he didn’t think out the ethical implications of something in his movies). They were suppose to be a warning about people being raised like the Spartans of old would end up becoming tools for fascism. Instead, we got an Evil Mode biochip. The scenario becomes the Treehouse of Horror skit with the Krusty Doll. No morale questions or logic, just a switch set to “kill.”

@@jiado6893 I completely agree

How is Eren similar to Anakin?

@@bboi1489 both are whiny kids who feel trapped and want freedom. Both loose their mother and go on rants about “slaughtering them all like animals” (with Eren the titans and with Anakin the Tuskins.) Both show signs of being incredibly violent at a young age (Anakin killing the tuskins, Eren killing the bandits) but these violent tendencies are ignored by the ones around them due to the understandable circumstances. Both are not trusted by their government but are reluctantly put in a position of power out of desperation (with Anakin he’s promoted to knight because the republic needs more generals and with Eren he is essentially dubbed humanity’s greatest asset because they know so little about how to defeat the titans.) Both get glimpses into the atrocities they will eventually commit taking a significant toll on them mentally (Anakin’s vision in the cave in the 2003 clone wars and Eren’s vision at the awards ceremony.) They’re obviously not exactly the same but my point was that they are a similar type of character. A violent kid with a black and white view of good and evil who is meant to turn evil as time goes on. Something like Attack on Titan proves that that concept can work and the clone wars didn’t need to tone down the more violent and psychotic nature of Anakin and mature him to be a big brother figure. A show with a main character like that can work it just needs to be well written.

Captain Fordo/Manda-LORE explained that years before this video. Not trying to say what Sheev says is lesser, just saying.

Not really

Not the first, but it's nice to have a solid video take down for the series. It's been on its hollow throne for far too long. About time we got a well structured video that lays out a lot of its big flaws.

Just the first you've seen.

@@PANCAKEMINEZZ Nah that throne is a good one, I think what this needs is a good response really. One that gives counter arguments really.

The Republic comics should be mandatory to every aspiring SW fan.

Yeah I recently read them and they are great! Siege of Saleucami was my 2nd favorite just behind the Jabiim story!

Quinlan Vos‘ Double Agent Story was hella good too. Also the first battle of Kamino. I used to dislike Rex because I grew up with the comics and Alpha was just such a badass. Also, I’m kinda glad we never got TCW Durge because they just would’ve nerfed him hard.

So true bro

I used to love star wars until I analyzed the prequels and went "tf is going on?" I was told Clone Wars would explain everything and ended up sitting through 5 seasons episodes of inconsistent sludge that I just couldn't tolerate. Glad this videos telling people how Disney didn't just waltz in and ruin everything, no, they gave the fans what they wanted and the fans just gagged it all out.

Teras kasi probably doesn't exist in disney, let alone Filoni's mind.

​@@fiddlesticks7245Qi'ra uses it in Solo: A Star Wars story. It's canon.

@@optillian4182 Disgusting

@@fiddlesticks7245 Why?

@@optillian4182 That disney shelved the EU in the name of creative freedom just to rip it off every chance they get? Insulting the work of countless writers just to have their ideas recycled by incompetent ones? Yeah I just don't know how that's disgusting.

The funny thing is that usually what fans of the show say are the best Story Arcs weren't even done by him. Lucas himself had a big role in making and approving things and even his daughter wrote a good portion of those story arcs people consider the best along with another guy named Henry Gilroy who never gets any credit for his work on the show. It's funny they always make him to be the sole person who did anything on the show.

I can’t wait for the MCU-esc crossover between Ahsoka, Mando, Grogu, Ezra, Sabine, and probably a fucking resurrected Maul in order to fight off the evil Admiral Thrawn’s rise to power. Capeshit ain’t got nothing on this. What would be a good name for it? Slop Wars?

@@HamanKarn567 Exactly, Dave doesn't deserve the praise he gets

Pretty much. Dave saw an opportunity to insert his ideas and did not hesitate since DAY ONE. Literally the debut TCW movie introduces Ahsoka in the first few minutes and we've reached a point where she might as well be the protagonist of the series lol.

@@HamanKarn567 Funny since Henry Gilroy wrote the Slavers Arc and was responsible for alot of Season 1 eps, he really knew what episodes would be an interesting topic to discuss and he left after Season 2 which is a shame since i felt his comic did more character development to Ahsoka and Anakin than anything the show had to offer.

Imagine when Lucasfilm does enter the public domain. Oh Filoni will be malding very badly.

​@@merafirewing6591how much longer till that happens?

@@moonshadow0078if it’s ahsoka then not until 2090s but episode 4 will be available in the 2060s im pretty sure

@@sagebaker6426 thanks for responding

Perhaps, but I also think that character trope is often lacking, especially since there's not much in Anakin's backstory that would give way to that. "A man not made for peacetime" usually works best with a person changed by war, who's unable to integrate back into civilian society. Think Rambo 1, the Punisher, or the dozens of stories of veterans who get back from war, then spend a good part of their lives chasing it in other armies or as mercenaries... I think at least a measurable part of those changes come from the bond experienced in a combat environment, feelings of helplessness in the midst of combat, and a learned proficiency in combat that makes you really valuable on the battlefield, but those skills don't really translate to civilian life, at least not at face value in a way that would be recognized like they would by fellow servicemembers. BUT, that also gets topics such as PTSD, or at a bare minimum, something learned about oneself in war that in star wars is really only ever explored in the clones themselves (and even still, looking back on the series after going to Iraq, I see that the development of the clones lends itself to oversimplification sometimes, though handled really well at others.) Also, anakin isn't really setup for that kind of character development, taking those earlier mentioned factors into consideration: anakin doesn't build much of a brotherly bond the way it's explored with the clones, it's comparatively distant. The feeling of helplessness isn't really there either, aside from single comment with the Sith, anakin is pretty much invulnerable and unshaken in the face of combat (there's no baptism of fire moment where he's getting shot at for the first time and internally reflecting later) and he's not really setup for a somewhat lackluster return to civilian society and any dissatisfaction resulting from it leading him back to it... Overall though. I find issue with the "warrior at heart/man not made for peacetime" trope because there's a poor setup for anakin, opens a can of worms that the show doesn't explore much at any level except for some moments between the clones, and doesn't really impact the rest of his story, it wasn't a learned proficiency for warfighting that lead him to palpatine nor are those traits part of his character... Especially in episode 3 and after. I'm not much of an example, because I didn't go through the craziness of the earlier years in the middle east and haven't done anything particularly crazy myself... But I did go through the lackluster return to civilian society which returned me to the defense industry, and I've worked alongside dozens of people who did serve when things were hot back in the surge and have met some people that been shaped by their experiences, but there's nothing in Anakin's character that lines up with or sets up that trope across anything in star wars.

What’s the guide? Did i miss something?

@@SunsetBearProbably the viewing order of the episodes

@@SunsetBear most people who try getting people to watch the show point at some fanmade guide on which episodes to skip and which to watch in what order. This is the only show I've ever seen that has something like this.

@fishybook2055 It's absurd how much homework thus show demands, and how many people refuse to acknowledge how absurd it is.

@@FishyAltFishy The only exceptions I've seen are really in Anime like Naruto, which are loaded with filler, or The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, which was deliberately released out of order to mess with the audience.

Same. A lot of the lessons or debates between characters don't even reach a clear conclusion that I remember. There is a physical conflict introduced at the start, it draws people with different views together in the second, but it is often not paid off in the third act. And I was left implying what the point of the debate even was based on the episode's fortune cookie quote at the start. Yeah, rushed

Nah, besides Andor every star wars episode on disney plus feels too damn short.

@@josedavidcastillo9241 For me, it's a little more complicated. I feel like the stretch their run time without adding more good dialogue scenes. This is most noticeable for me with Kenobi, Ahsoka, and BOBF. It's like instead of cramming everything into 25 minutes, they took the same amount of content and stretched it over an hour.

The real "animated clone wars" will always be the 15 minute 2D shorts that came before

@@JC-oq5ex Same. Those are good

Besides a few arcs, it's a Saturday morning cartoon. Particularity S1 and S2.

Well we're looking through Yoda's perspective and what he was seeing that was in a vision.

For all we know Jedi and Sith can suppress/hide their force and life energy. Palpatine is a example of that.

​@@user-ol7bt4wp1j If you're gonna just pretend that Anakin couldn't sense Obi-Wan's death, a very distinct sensation that's so potent Yoda and Obi-Wan both reacted to despite being light years away from the actual events, you are arguing disingenuosly.

@@fiddlesticks7245 Another simple answer is Anakin at the moment of obi wans death was simply so pre occupied with him being dead that he simply didn’t check wether he was dead or alive with the force Listen kiddo, we can just as easily argue as to why the show did hold up as we can that it didn’t. Current Star Wars lore and canon is janky and inconsistent enough either way.

Okay but he doesn’t do that in show, so clearly he couldn’t sense it

A much younger and less experienced Anakin was instantly able to sense two tiny venomous worms entering Padme's chamber through a wall multiple feet away, but couldn't sense Obi-Wan not dying right in front of him. Filoni doesn't understand Star Wars.

Greivous was cooler in ROTS than the show, tbh

Yeah, because Legends Grievous was just stupid. He could canonically attack like over 100 times per second with his 4 arms. That was official old lore. 100 lightsaber swings per second. There would never even be a reason to not just replace your arms with mechanical ones.

​@@Elfenlied8675309Sure but TCW Grievous was a bit of an overcorrection don't you think?

@@Elfenlied8675309 2003 Grievous was never meant to be taken as literal canon. Its meant to be more of an exaggeration of what happened canonically. What was meant to be taken as canon and is still supposed to be canon is that hes a deadly jedi killer which is never depicted in the show apart from when he cheap shots Nadhar Webb. Even in Canon TCW comics grievous is much more powerful than he is in the show. And also people wouldn't replace their arms because that only worked for grievous because of tech they put in his brain. Also they did do that for Vader.

​@@Elfenlied8675309are you saying that the ROTS book is legends?

INDEED, Siri deserved more respect

TCW has so many of the same problems as post-Disney Star Wars, where they took better stories, filed the serial numbers off, and pretended it was their own work.

@@AJadedLizard THIS EXACTLY

Yeah, Satine is a really weird case. I mean....THAT is the woman that you would have left the Jedi Order for, Obi-Wan? Her? Seriously?

They are not remotely the same, what?

He wasn't as deep into it, but he was already very doubtful and unsure about the order as a whole. Imo, that's something that the movies established pretty well. For all the good the Jedi did, their order was fundamentally deeply flawed to the point that it made Anakin very easy to exploit. Padme was the tipping point, sure, but it was not the start of his resentment towards the Jedi. That said, it's something that TCW and the movies should've expanded upon more so than they did. For a lot of it, the Anakins in the movies and TCW feel like entirely different characters.

@@bigchungus6827 Yes Anakin in TCW does also not trust the council he always disobeys them and critize their choices that is way he is not different from the Anakin we see in the starting of revenge of the sith.

@@gonzaw8539 Eh, to me personally it felt more arrogant and confident in TCW, than in RoTS, or rather it felt off to me because Anakin in TWC felt far more confident and self assured.

@@bigchungus6827 I do think so as well but just a little bit because I think that at the beginning of ROTS Anakin and obi wan talk about something in an elevator (I'm no completely sure if that is the part) an he tells him how he has a charm with women or something like that. IMO if ROTS was longer they would have definitely touched more on Anakin's arrogance and confidence.

It seems someone actually understands the characterisation levied in TCW. This is absolutely the case. It's a derivative from his ROTS iteration, before he experiences traumatic problems again.

I would agree, except that the Tup and Fives Arc exists and the Jedi are just actively blinding themselves regarding the Clones after that.

"At that point, she may have assumed they all betrayed her" Before the horrific inhibitor chips, that's because they did. In the Prequels, there are no inhibitor chips, they all betrayed the Jedi because they believed the Jedi became their enemies. The clones had this nuance of killing the good guys because they believe the Jedi are actually the bad guys, when in truth, the clones have become the bad guys, and the clones don't realize it, due to them being conditioned to be less independent than Jango himself, with little free will to decide for themselves they are doing the wrong thing.

@@helenwhs She wasn’t there for those arcs.

@@ECSOrder66 Which again doesn't make sense since they could see the jedi themselves...after years they wouldn't just blindly believe that. They always had some free will though...and they aren't dumb either.

@jaydenc367 Yes, they had some free will. SOME. Only enough for the clones to make their own decisions, but not enough to refuse to carry out an order. It makes perfect sense, no, they are not dumb, but they have been conditioned to blindly follow orders. There is no "But they wouldn't do that" They HAVE to do that, there is literally no way to refuse. They were created to be totally obedient. You're looking at this through the eyes of a normal human. They are not normal humans, they are supersoldiers loyal to the Republic that are guaranteed to be 100% obedient to their superiors. They don't think the same way we do. The only reason they can still think is so they are not human droids. But they will always be obedient.

“disney bad, give likes”

@@ToasterLad_ Shove your likes where the sun don't shine but yes. Disney, their copyright lobbying and all of their bullcrap has been bad for decades

@@ToasterLad_ "Somehow Palpatine Returned"

​@@Noelll"I don't like sand."

@@optillian4182 ‘But we can’t turn back, fear is their greatest defense, I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.”

"You can't just return everything to zero after every episode" Yes, you totally can. When you think about it, the whole war itself doesn't really matter one bit. The only thing that's relevant was how it started and how it ended - the prequels skip the whole in-between part without missing anything. The whole show is just a giant bloated filler where Dave Filoni plays with his favourite action figures.

That's why it's best to watch it in the chronological order

@@spartanx9293 That's the only way I watch it anymore.

Not all Talz have to come from that one planet or that one tribe. It's like with the Zabraks on Dathomir instead of just Iridonia or how humans are the predominant species on most planets, there could be several possible explanations as to how these lifeforms ended up there and living some place else simultaneously.

@@Grandof-the-PentastarAlignment I believe that is the current lore explanation, but that episode went out of its way to make the Talz seem like a new species just so they could do a crappy colonization episode (one of the weaker eps in season 1 for me, and that's saying something).

I've always figured that a moment like Anakin choosing not to confide in Obi-Wan about his dreams in Revenge of the Sith (which seems to be because of Obi-Wan's lack of help when he was dreaming of his mother dying making him believe that Obi-Wan is only going to respond with Jedi platitudes. I get the impression, particularly with talk about the contrast between Anakin calling Obi-Wan a father-figure in AOTC and then Obi-Wan calling Anakin a brother in ROTS, that to Anakin, Obi-Wan is his friend, a guy whom he'd banter with and for whom he would risk his life in a heartbeat, but whom he'd never confide in in the same way he does with Padmé and Palpatine because he believes Obi-Wan's loyalty is ultimately to the council more than it is to him - regardless of whether that is actually true. I suppose stuff like the Rako Hardeen arc might touch on that, but it's why I think that while fleshing out Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship as TCW does and people have argued the movies should have done more is nice, it also risks upsetting that fragile balance of maintaining an element of flawedness that contributes to Anakin's final fall to the Dark Side and severance of ties with Obi-Wan.

Not for force users

No you didn't. You may know now if you watched it but not before you did.

@@AthEE_One Why not? The show exists in the same way for all people, so it's not unreasonable to think that multiple people looking over it with a critical eye could've noticed the same issues throughout it, especially in a series as long running as TCW.

@@bigchungus6827 That's not what he said though. He said he knew what the video was about. He couldn't possibly have known that before watching the video itself. All he could have done is assume based on his own criticisms, preconceptions and presumptions about Sheev, and then declare that these assumptions must be correct, which is a dangerous gateway to bad faith arguments.

@@AthEE_One Assuming that is kind of a bad faith assumption by itself, though. There's no real way you can 100% know from their wording that it wasn't because they themself recognize many flaws in the show.

@@bigchungus6827 You misunderstand my meaning. You cannot know what someone has to say before you hear them say it. That is completely impossible. I'm not myself, in bad faith, assuming bad faith on the part of OP. I merely point out that his assumptions may be correct, but must not be stated to be correct before they're berified, lest bad faith creeps in.

He was able to run an entire criminal organization while hiding his presence for some time

​@@cara-setun quite an achievement for a zabrak man of violence.

I mean that was essentially why bringing him back was stupid because he should have realized that Palpatine is more responsible for his suffering over Obi Wan and he could have easily exposed Palpatine as the other Sith, but doesn't? Like he tries to subtly, (not really) create a criminal empire to rival Palpatine because reasons? Like i couldn't stand Maul because he just makes constant dumb decisions. That however is alot if TCW characters in general.

​@@sergioruiz733well Maul was groomed to be an obedient dog. Sith are meant to be evil and harmful to eachother which is what he'd try excuse it. Him being replaced, any hate Palps would have for him, him being a mad spider for years. All of it lies on loosing to a padawan after killing his master. Which is his own fault. But he pins it all on Obiwan, because he's still mad.

@@AnonTDegenerate The problem I have with that then is that he isn't really a true Sith then. The Sith are meant to be eventually overthrow another or surpass their masters or die trying. The Master is meant to pass onto his apprentice the knowledge they know whilst also seeking new knowledge to maintain their position. This is essentially why I only see Maul as a Sith Assassin then anything of an extreme power house that people put him on a pedestal for. He was meant to be thrown away considering Tales of the Jedi conforms Palpatine was already grooming Dooku to be his new apprentice but even he sought to eventually overthrow Palpatine via his training of Ventress. And even if he pins it on Obi Wan his actions of creating a criminal Empire and later in Rebels trying to lure Ezra and seeking to try to eliminate Palpatine shows he is aware that Palpatine has caused him harm, I just don't find him very intelligent in both series.

It's good, Republic Commando is good, Star Wars Republic is fantastic. There was so much good in the Multimedia Project.

@@AJadedLizard Well I did try watching it, but I couldn't really get into it. The 2-D really gave me high hopes for Episode II, but then Episode II sucked IMO. Grevious who was soooooo awesome in the cartoon was lame in the movie. :(

@@-taz- Same, I found it insulting to my intelligence.

@@extantfellow46 It was "a long time ago," and I was quite interested in watching the 3-D Clone Wars shows. (I got a stair stepper, and needed something to watch!) That was after I enjoyed the first run of The Last Airbender. The Clone Wars, even though I really love the animation style, didn't have much going on with plot or characters. Plus the movies, even the prequels, really pushed me away from Star Wars. I'm not saying it's bad. (Disney Star Wars is bad. Beyond bad.) But it just doesn't pull me in.

@@extantfellow46 3 episodes maybe. I also started watching Bad Batch since a coworker recommended it.

that wasn't balance

@@JoshuaKevinPerry balance is meaningless. It is without definition.

This is kind of why i love kreia from swtor 2, she rightfully saw the endless amounts of carnage and repetiveness in the starwars universe and she found the only one that was guilty of doing so, the force itself. It is a pretty neat explanation as to why the star wars universe seems so same-y why there is the token good guys versus bad guys why the order dies and revives why the sith do so as well why the darkside is 'evil' and etcetera it's too high of a concept for the resuctionist view the star wars franchise gives to it's own setting and morality system such a shame it wasn't ever truly explored

The Jedi in the prequels is supposed to represent their order at its worst

@@Yuki_Seraphimprobably because kreia wasn’t supposed be seen as right

Clone Wars was so much better than The Clone Wars, part of why was because everything was exaggerated so you didn't have to take everything literally. The Clone Wars seems to be a 1:1 story that's supposed to be taken seriously 100% of the time and it really fucked with the lore, especially the Kaminoans. Changed them from a Nazi-esque eugenics oriented species to a bleeding heart hippy species. Old canon wouldn't have had a hunchback clone, he'd have been killed offscreen before he made it out of the cloning tube.

The OG Clone Wars is vastly superior 💯

The multimedia project is far superior. I get people like the clones in TCW, but Filoni does the Jedi dirty. In the Republic comics for example, the Jedi are far more complex, and you get the sense that they aren’t just a bunch of fools. They’re normal folk struggling to do what’s right and that sense of right leads them right into Palpatine’s trap. They’re intelligent, which makes Palpatine even more intelligent. In TCW they have almost no redeeming qualities.

CW is so cool

you are not alone, bro! Multimedia-Project over TCW ANYTIME!!! We might be fewer, but we have higher standards!

As you said, she was stressed, made a mistake, but she was not going to hurt them willingly after that, like its simple, how does a heroic act make you sick when she knows freeing maul was a mistake but its too late Edit: bad batch is actually really good and bad, its very hit m miss but worth watching

She didn't kill them though Maul did. She had no other choice though if she was gonna live and she tried getting the least amount of clones killed. Nah it makes a lot of sense really. Not really that final season was good overall.

@@jaydenc367 Let me repeat that I didn't really have a problem with freeing Maul until that line, where she absolves herself of ANY responsibility. If I free a dangerous prisoner and he ends up killing his guards, he is the one who killed them. But to me it would be ridiculous to say I had no part in killing them. And if Ahsoka had accepted SOME responsibility in their deaths, I would have no problem with, I would think it well written in fact. I still would if the show at least acknowledged she is dodging culpability.

@@sealco Yeah, but unless I remember it wrong, she never acknowledges that freeing Maul was a mistake or that decision is why every clone trooper on the ship, except Rex, will end up dead. She never has a "what have I done?" moment. About the Bad Batch, that is just me personally. Even if it was an objectively great show, I saw the four episodes in Clone Wars final season and it just wasn't something I was interested in seeing more of. And it annoyed me that Disney would so shamelessly devote a third of the final season to advertise a spinoff. But it is no indictment against anyone who likes Bad Batch, happy if people enjoy it. It just isn't for me.

@@jacobp8383 I mean...it's a complicated situation really I can't really blame them for writing it that way tbh.

Even in arcs I like, like the citadel arc, there are problems with it fitting into the cannon. The fact that Anakin has not only seen a carbon freezer in use but has been inside of one along side a group of people definitely fucks with the TESB and it wouldn’t have even been a hard fix.

​@@millionamax1Not really because he just freezes Han. He never actually says anything about it.

No. He freezes Han to test if it’ll be a suitable way of transporting Luke. Lando says they use the chamber for carbon freezing and that Luke could die if he’s put in, to which Vader responds that he’ll test it on Han first (since he doesn’t want Luke to die or be damaged) If you factor in the Clone Wars arc where he goes into the carbon freezing chamber that is the exact make same as Lando’s as cannon then it’s weird for him to do that and kind of illogical, as it’s just wasting time when he already knows it’s safe, which is out of character.

dont you understand star wars is a mythlgdgy canon and legends its amyth being documented in the galaxy far far away

@@ChosenOne-il4bm Way to shift the goal posts from 'it's not canon breaking' to 'but who cares about canon it's a mythos so there will be inconsistencies.'