Starcraft 2 Modders made their own NEW RTS game in Unreal Engine 5 - IMMORTAL: Gates of Pyre Review 

there is definitely a demand for PvE Co-op content . But the health of a game is built around the PvP side of the game. Non-RTS players and RTS players are going to look at the Social Proof of the game and if they see a small PvP scene they won't even want to try the Co-Op content. You can theoretically play Co-Op with an AI as your teammate and that's where the problem lies. You get a 'big RTS' audience that's hidden from the public eye, which is going to be reflected in how many twitch streamers stream the game and how many twitch viewers view the game.. and the end result is that its going to be like SC2 - No one in your social circle will play the game. I hope that one of these RTS trys to change that but its highly unlikely.

​@BrobdingHighlights nah mate, dudes right. Broodwar times have come and gone. You need pve experience that's on par with pvp.

you have to have both that's good. I don't think SC2 had amazing pvp and the Co op content came too late.

I think high APM RTS is dead if not at it's lowest ever in history, after the novelty of how far a human can push APM, they saw it, now they're done with it. People realize they can't be young forever and keep chugging Redbull and after just one game, your eyesight starts to be a a bit blurry. High APM RTS is like a cookie clicker game + rhythm game, but you also need to do it in all directions two screens away. I like RTS but not too many units on the screen and off screen, a compromise would be those units offscreen are invulnerable like some TD game. I played an RTS game where you literally just have one unit. It was fun, just forgot the name of it. RTS is like a Martial Arts Dojo, you need to recruit and keep young bloods interested or the art would just die.

Im one of those that looking for a more casual friendly RTS game.

I think Tempest Rising will satisfy the single player component but they haven't really shown the multiplayer aspect of it. Its so important to have these new RTS succeed. Company of Heroes 3 and Age of Empires 4 both have less playerbase then its previous editions. Its a bad look especially to outsiders looking to get into the RTS genre.

@@BrobdingHighlights Bad look? People play the stuff that appeals to them. Sadly the RTS genre is inherently offputting. With innovation has come conplexity. Gone are the days of Command and Conquer, Warcraft, and even Starcraft where the focus was mostly basic gameplay where you send a bunch of basic untis to swarm the bad guy's base. What made them accessible was specifically the Campaigns where they limited the tools available to the user and limited the opposition they'd encounter. Baby steps to give the average user the power fantasy of commanding an army and decimating their foe. Putting PVP front and center signals this type of player to not even bother looking.

Two RTS Campaigns that come to mind after SC2 were Iron Harvest and Spellforce3 though they both have those WC3 Herounit elements to some degree and aren't rly about pvp.

its for a reason, go watch grant giant games video on it he made like a year or 2 ago about what the next rts needs. sadly the free to play buisness model is king these days but rts always lived and died by its mulitplayer replay ability

There are many single player campaign which I consider legendary and Starcraft 2 Wings of liberty is one of them, not Heart Of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void are just bad, but WoL has everything, good gameplay, creative challenges, a story which is what it is but at least you get sick cinematics I am still asking since I was playing warcraft 2 and drooling of the screen. You can customize your army units as you progress and most importantly it has a feature which I adore and can be found in very few games likes Goldeneyes and Rogue Squadron on N64 where basically the game propose you challenges and if you beat them you unlock stuff but only usefull stuff for the gameplay like new units, I really wish future RTS will take that in consideration it's a huge bonus for single player campaign and there is so much can could be done to extend a single player's campaign lifespan.

Yeah, and it isn't even about the graphics or art style - It's actually about the gameplay and I haven't seen anything that has a chance of having a playerbase that's greater then SC2 which defeats the purpose of making a new game.

It was a great review, in order to make an amazing RTS game: 1. New experience for all players 2. Fun units and factions 3. Better game play You have to make the best game possible, evolve the game further.

jep doesnt look apealing at all. They should just make a new SC 3. and continue the story or start a new one in tha tuniverse. u could also do that with just a few little changes if u dont own the rights. and its still fine. a human race, a alien race and a wild beast race isnt something blizzard can own.

Starcraft 2 Wing of Liberty is one of the greatest RTS campaign of all time. Then the franchise took a bad turn and completely changed the mechanics it's not even worth trying Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the void. Making a good all rounder multi and single player RTS is incredly difficult to produce but I am hoping for a good RTS campaign like we have not seen for a veeeeery long time.

making a mod first is a pretty good way to test your game out before committing to making it in a different engine

Oooh that's a good one. Let's see if any of these RTS has something like that. But let them come up with that idea on their own. I want to see if they are actually smart.

I'll say we're already halfway there, you see examples of this in AoE2:DE advanced tutorials (Art of War), and some custom/workshop mods that have interactive in-game guides to help you learn build orders.

This is an awesome idea and I hope some devs see it and adopt it or atleast mod ability that allows the community to make there own.

Yup , I'm sure these game companies can churn out a polished product with a nice campaign with it ( like Tempest Rising) , but for the Free to Play ones they have to pay for servers and employee costs and I doubt that RTS player pool has enough paying customers for microtransactions to justify making one free. At the very least I hope these new RTS could be have a niche playerbases around ~10k on Steam

Have to bring balance to the universe~ The RTS content creators and players are biased... the RTS content creators know that the financial outcomes of RTS content creation can't be 'Ninja' or 'DrDisrespect' level when the playerbase of RTS has not grown with the releases of the 'new' RTS's like AOE 4 or COH3. You can see it on people's faces- I think the SC2 content creators are bored of playing the same game for more then a decade when the glory days of Starcraft 2 were in its first two years. Its like the patrick spongebob and squidward playing outside meme. I too want to see a RTS succeed, so they need the 'bad cop' routine where they need to put their head down dig deep because if these RTS fail then its basically Over for the RTS genre.

I've seen some gameplay on RU-vid and its nice to see different looking models in the SC2 engine. But as long as its in the Engine its stuck in the hands of Activision / Blizzard so It kind of doesn't matter if any mods become popular. But if that mod has promise they should actually try to make it into another engine someday like these guys did mentioned in the video.

I agree, they should try and bring in some better movement and speed because people don't have the patience for slow moving units these days. Have to find a way to speed up thr game whipe keeping the integrity of RTS. So camera angles and immersion techniques needs something new for a fresh perspective.

@@Valkrill I don't understand what the problem is. RTS are originally slow games in which you need time to grind resources and build a base.

roaches have a melee attack when in close range

@@GameFuMaster so do hydras

Dawn of War will satisfy you with that.

aoe2 is doing pretty damn great and has better team games.

SC2 should have captured the MOBA and FPS crowd , hopefully some RTS in the future does that.

​@@BrobdingHighlightsfps games offer much more in terms of customisation. Also they simply are more team based which people prefer. Rts isn't as team based

Bro, ever heard of Supreme Commander: FA?

Not too sure I agree considering RTS matches are much shorter (15-20 min) compared to LoL or Dota2's (40+ min). - Adûnâi

I think for success you probably just have to make a game like anyother, but not put macro transactions into it (10-30 dollars per item). Most of the current leaders in the industry would be annihilated if a competitor showed up with an equal quality game, with less customer abuse.

"Glorious storm is a turn based real time strategy game." RTS is my favorite genre. IMO, the reason the RTS audience seems small is because most games that enter the genre present themselves like this one; no clue what even makes them qualify for the genre. As an RTS player, if you're not playing ladder, you're not going to be playing the game for very long because there's not much else on offer. Most unique players don't play the ladder, so most resulting metrics tell a story of "dead game", even for titles that sell well. There are a ton of these 'tactics' games in the genre, completely devoid of strategy, trying to compete with StarCraft and Age of Empires and they all seem to think they'll include some ground-breaking new feature that will make their game standout, but they end up missing a cornerstone (or many cornerstones, in most cases) of the genre. The lesser titles are just never what an RTS player wants. Most of the sales are spill-over from RTS players trying to find another StarCraft, Age of Empires or Command & Conquer; we're hoping beyond reason that we'll stumble upon another BlackChain, Dark Colony, or Armies of Exigo indie game. Instead, we have a continuous gauntlet of historical battle simulators that miss 4/5 of the genre-defining features of RTS. We're super jaded to new titles at this point and we're right to be, so it's common to find relatively well-polished games, calling themselves RTS, that don't land with the RTS audience because they're not our genre, they're just using our tag.

@@jacobunderwood4957 You are comparing the game I made all by myself with AAA game in the RTS genre? Is the RTS genre reserved to big indie studio or AAA studios? I have no marketing director, no logistics manager and so on and so on. I am not trying to say that my game is BETTER, I am just saying that it is indeed a RTS. Why? Because, You control an army and you have to destroy an ennemy. You can give your order in real time. You have a choice of units with unique caracteristics...etc etc... You said you want a new Dark Colony or Amies of Exigo. May I tell you that they are made by relatively big studio with plenty of waged people. "INDIE", this word is complex to define. Is it somebody who work Alone or is it a Studio that don't work with big editors? I see myself as a Solo indie game developer. You can compare my game to those made by my kind. I do understand that people have high expectation even big AAA studio struggle with that so imagine my position to see a game you worked hours for month being labeled as shovelware.

@@oedipesgames4950 None of that "AAA" stuff. I'm saying you're using the 'RTS' and 'turn-based' tags abusively. The first sentence in the description of your game doesn't make any sense, the one I quoted - you're simultaneously claiming that your game has contradictory structures. I'm saying your game doesn't belong in the RTS genre because it doesn't have features consistent with RTS titles. It even moreso doesn't deserve "turn-based" tags. Like I said, your game is missing MOST features of RTS. Units attacking each other on a map isn't enough to qualify. RTS players are pretty wise to these genre abuses, where devs just like to use our genre's terms to try to sell their games. This is what makes people think the RTS genre isn't popular; there's always a handful of titles just using the tags and not delivering to the genre's audience, so the audience is harsh about it, like I'm being here. Armies of Exigo came from an relatively unknown Hungarian studio with 7 people. Dark Colony was also from mostly unknown devs, aside from a bit of Rockstar Toronto (at the time an unknown studio), both are thoroughly what 'indie' meant at the time, where individual game development wasn't really a thing. BlackChain is more recent and it's literally one guy (who understood what the RTS genre is). "Indie" directly means independent, but it's become synonymous with "unknown/non-mainstream/not bankrolled by investors". The confusion you express isn't inherent to the term. The term fits my examples and me including those examples makes it clear I'm not comparing AAA to indie in any of my statements, I'm using both to make my point. You're showing your colors with every sentence, just like Glorious Storm. You're taking the words in RTS literally and that's not how genres work. We see what the thing is, it maybe deserves the "strategy" tag (that's arguable), then I think "simulator" would fit way better than RTS. It's a tactics battle simulator. The Wikipedia article for "Real-Time Strategy" fills in the genre context you're missing: "More specifically, the typical game in the RTS genre features resource-gathering, base-building, in-game technological development, and indirect control of units." The genre is defined by it's leading examples and they ALL have these features. All of them. Your game is using inaccurate genre tags to reach audiences that are going to dislike your game and give you criticism; and it's warranted. It's like if Taylor Swift made an album like her others, but that uses a lot of electric guitar, and called it "Classic Rock".

You seem like you played RTS when you were a kid - SC2 was supposed to be the next big RTS when I graduated highschool. I thought a video game like SC2 would be a good way to spend time with friends despite friends going to different colleges and all ,but most people quit SC2 very rapidly after release. Now even if a 'great' RTS was released everyone has grown up. Kind of Sad really, that RTS did not or has not live up to its full potential. I guess that's why I'm creating a channel, so that I can have another reason to play a video game or RTS.

I'm backing Zerospace because it looks like it will make it simple to play. Which I think is a key component for success these days. Another way to capture an audience could be to actually make it anime themed, as that is pretty huge in entertainment. But you wouldn't capture all RTS players, but possible a lot of anime-viewers who don't play RTS.

RTS is like a non-popular martial arts, if you don't recruit and keep young bloods interested, your art and the training and mastery you spend will just die off. The silver lining was RTS is just around 2 decades old so most of it's fans are still alive. I think from the young bloods perspective, there's so many units but killing other units either take so long or dies in an instant for the time, sacrifice and resources to make them. And it doesn't have those flashy skills or cool units if it's not at like 40 minutes into the game. What most if not all devs are trying to do was just trying to make old and tired RTS fans play their game as long as they can. I know these RTS is mostly resource management but if they wanna play resource management and building, Minecraft, Roblox, Terraria already does that and those resources are saved far longer than 40~69 minutes too. To be honest I'm not sure if I'm a true RTS fan, if I watch some RTS esport I usually skip to the last 1/3rd of the game. I just find the resource management and APM at the start a bore and a chore to watch, I dun really care if I miss some rare valuable info/tips. There's so much games and other leisure nowadays it's not a loss at all.

What i have felt playing RTS is that the other opponent doesn't want to interact with the other player and that each player is trying to build up their perfect unit composition (*deathball). Compared to other games, in RTS you see alot less of your opponent for minutes of times. It doesn't have to be 70% fighting over Creeps exactly but there should be some incentives for interaction between players.

IF this game has a competent creation engine AND a robust game to start with, I think people will convert. Blizzard TOS explicitly states they OWN YOU and your works made for the battlenet platform. If this game could reach a state of development that allows custom maps and modding, it could in time overtake the SC2 Community.

They are using Client Server networking so I don't think they have to deal with the floating point determinism problem.

Go play a multiplayer game of grey goo or 8bit armies or any other client server RTS and enjoy the lagfest with high unit counts even 1v1. I hope ue5 networking turns out better, but i doubt it I predict they will be all excited about their game when testing with users on high bandwith connections. Then it'll go into the wild and people will realize you can't play multiplayer on the ladder because of all the lagging in late game. Itll turn into another forgotten PVE RTS. Id love to be proven wrong.. but i doubt it. Stormgate is using deterministic sinulation, so it should be good for myltiplayer.

I have to try Co-Op sometime , people say that "its the most popular mode' and i have to see why.

SC2 was my most played game, even though I didn't feel it lived up to its potential as being a part of the Esports Titans dota , lol , and cs go, I enjoyed the first years of SC2. Tempest Rising seems like its trying to bring in high quality cut scenes and voice acting. I don't think it can top Starcraft 2 in responsiveness and readability while having great graphics.

Honestly, I think the only hope RTS really has is to find a way to follow in the footsteps of the fighting game community, where having 3 or 4 similar games isn't something that divides the playerbase into walled off fiefdoms sniping at each other, but rather creates a foundation for a playerbase that flows between the various games and is able to grow and thrive beyond just one game. Granted that's gonna require more LAN parties or other forms of local, in-person play.

@@dominiccasts That's actually a very valid point! It would be cool to see big names play tournaments in different rts games and all of that! And I think youre right about lan parties and in person play because fighting games are the only ones that have managed to achieve that and the lan parties/in person play seem to be one of the main differences! Really interestimg

"Since competitive RTS is a niche, I'm kinda worried that we all won't have 1 game that we focus on and, instead, the player base is divided further between Zerospace, Stormgate, Gates of Pyre and whatever." That's kind of my gripes with the RTS community and a part of the reason why I did this video. RTS is such a niche genre with niches within it. I see other big RTS content creators with this big platform and all they can do is just focus on their game whether it be AOE or Company of Heroes , Starcraft, or Stormgate - They don't give any new RTS the time of the day unless they believe it will net them money or a following in the future. That goes with the RTS community (players) as well, they want a Great RTS to play yet they are sitting there waiting for the great RTS to come without giving a chance to try other new games. There's really no excuses now with the Free to Play RTS's coming out ( This one and Stormgate). Company of Heroe's Playerbase is 10k , AOE is like 30k , Starcraft is probably like 70k. Imagine if they just all tried one of these new RTS and people saw that popularity on Steam - it would attract new players to the game. But it won't happen. ____ I also think that Starcraft's graphics and art style are pretty amazing - but it would be a predicable thing to happen that if a new RTS came out with very similar graphics people would say SC2 clone negatively.... ____ As for the social component you mentioned .. I also found it very difficult in a 1v1 focused game ( Starcraft 2 ) to teach and bring friends in to play. After SC2 was released I have had many friends try the game, but slowly just stop playing. If only watching your friends was a thing that you could have done back when Starcraft 2 came out... the RTS playerbase would be much bigger then it is now. Hopefully Stormgate will have that and I believe they are.

@@BrobdingHighlights Hey man! Thanks for the reply! I think you are absolutely right about content creators and players needing to give new RTS's a chance. That would change things so much. And yea, the last thing a new RTS wants is probably being called an SC2 clone in a negative way. Not great for marketing

I saw a video on youtube of a SC2 Mod that is something like that. It would be a cool thing to try. Though I think the 'normal' mode has to be popular first before something like a Battle Royale mode can be popular.

Your demand has been heard I put it on my to do list

@@kroooassant9899 thank you, looking forward to it

I heard that they will have decent lore. Like the factions they have right now are Angels and Aztec like Root people. Their next faction is a human faction so maybe that's just easier to identify with. They have a person on their team that does the lore and he was the core part of the team in the very beginning so its not like its a random hire that's jumping on board the project. But ultimately the gamer has to sit down and play the RTS to be interested in the lore - a tough task for any RTS gamedevelopers now.

Sounds like you might like Dawn of War 1 and 2. Warhammer 40K fans loved them so much too.

I've been pretty active on the discord and to say the lore is decent is in my opinion an understatement. The devs are very open that they want Immortal to eventually develop into big, complex universe that can house many different games and other media, not unlike Star Wars. With the added benefit of really solid research and consistent, logical worldbuilding within rules-based framework. Unfortunately, that kind of lore is either hard to translate directly into RTS without a story campaign, which is a 'later' thing, or is a deep backstory and, thus, spoiler.

I think its because today's audience would think it looks bland and the existing RTS audience would say "Broodwar Clone" if you did make the art like Broodwar.

Its too bad the people left playing RTS are so attached to SC2's design and artstyle - it puts game developers into a box and the box isn't even that big. Its like the RTS genre evolved into a Starcraft 2 -shaped crab that only lives in tide-pools. Also, I thought about the thumbnail and title and I think while there is a section where I discuss some problems of the RTS genre I'm trying to find a video style where if I review something is not just a straight up information dump into the viewer, but its almost like a discussion with a friend. So there's a little bit of extra dishes with the main course. I do think I'll do a video to give my take on that topic in the future ( " The NEXT RTS will fail. here's why ")

@@BrobdingHighlights That's gonna be a catchy title for sure! Good luck for your future videos! :)

In all the examples the details are hard to see, even in this game especially when in battle. The only LoL style in Stormgate is the terrain.

I'm not 100% sure and I'm probably wrong but the 'protoss' like faction is more of an angelic faction. That's probably hard to convey without a campaign... Maybe they do have to show it more in their units rather then telling. The other one are supposed to "Root / Plant " people. I think the difficult part when creating factions is that the most common races that people are exposed to are the trope of The Good, the Divine, and the Evil. In Starcraft 2 that's Terran, Protoss, and Zerg. But if they follow these tropes then they run the risk of being compared to Starcraft 2 . So maybe that's why It feels like the Tier 1 units don't look that Angelic or Root ish. The Tier 2 to Tier 3 units look more like their intended fantasy. Tough task to accomplish when there's no campaign, trailer, or finalized select screens with splash art loading screens, but I agree that maybe the units themselves can show a little bit more angelic and rootness. Their 3rd faction (named Jora) is probably going to be a bit more understandable, human, and I think they are going to be a diesel punk type of faction.

@@BrobdingHighlights Thanks for the details. I will say that good, divine, and evil are pretty easy to show visually but difficult to express as concepts mechanically. Maybe evil could be more DoT based since poisons and weapons designed for suffering are largely seen as evil? Seems like an uphill battle to climb.

You're right when you say Gameplay matters most. Even Game Design ( if the game is actually Fun) over responsiveness and unit movement because without that you have nothing. What did you mean when you said that all units are shooting in a straight line? You mean like the actual VFX of the projectile is straight and doesn't curve or something?

I think its so early in development that I can't make a good opinion on it. I have not tried it yet but from what I see the color palette seems a bit drab. For being developed by only two people I think it looks OKAY. I'm not a fan if the Hero is a big part of the strength of your army. But I'll try it once it reaches an open beta pvp, but I probably won't like it that much because of the Hero being super strong aspect.

Lol you're right the trees look really Warcraft 3 . The gold mine too. But I think the end result will look like "if Riot Games made an RTS".

You have a good point, their lore is an actual universe and the guy behind it majored in Linguistics OR something in college so they even plan on having their own languages ... sort of like Protoss has. Their opinion is that gamers want a universe they can explore with like Warhammer and that naming something like a "Root Tank" doesn't fit their vision to the game. It makes it harder for beginners to know what unit does or to teach new players how to play

very good point. I use an immortal in starcraft 2 i won't be surprised it tanks a lot of damage. roaches are hard to kill. zerglings just look fast. marines shoot bullets fast. zealots charge like fanatics into battle. even from tier 1 units its very easy to understand/relate to sc2 units making it at lot easier to get into if you're new both, from a spectator and player perspective.

no problem! i'm going to try all the future RTS as well ( ZeroSpace Tempest Rising etc ) and hopefully any other indie RTS that people haven't heard of

I think that if any new RTS comes out and feels like Starcraft 2, then the same thing will happen with Starcraft 2 - a bunch of people try it , then leave then the RTS stays a niche genre where no IRL people actually play. I do think however the classic formula of Starcraft 2 (pathfinding, unit size / zoom, UI) has the most potential for broad appeal compared to the other formulas AOE , COH , CNC.

Yea it is free to play. We'll see if the free to play aspect of it actually increases the potential player pool.

All the RTS are very different from each other, people are open to trying new RTS but for example AOE players stick to AOE styled games because the skills don't transfer that well to other games. I think people will atleast try Stormgate because its free but whether they stick to it is another question. When Stormgate releases we'll see on SteamDB if the playerbase is a Sum of all these other RTS games like COH and AOE and CnC. But I feel doubtful because people have egos and don't want to suck at a new game. With Tempest Rising I see a potential for another niche RTS like AOE and COH, which I'm all for because the CNC style is more like Starcraft's style then AOE is. The only thing about Tempest Rising is that the Turn Rates are very slow... and that the unit silhouettes aren't very different from one another but I feel above all the game design is most important. We'll see soon... I sense that it will come out in November since that seems to be when video games release in the fall.

I looked up Kohan and it looks like a pretty cool RTS. I never explored other RTS in the early 2000's because Starcraft and Warcraft came out when I was pretty young. When you are that age you only consume the most popular thing. Now we are lucky to live in a time where content creators can highlight projects that aren't from AAA companies, like IMMORTAL

Thanks, Yeah thats what I see in alot of RTS channels. Like they are so in love with being a content creator that they are just forced to have one opinion. They don't have an option since its their full time job so its either a new RTS comes out and becomes popular and in comes thousands of new players and viewership or they are stuck pretending that they still like Starcraft 2 for one more decade. The big Game Journalism companies aren't going to touch the dead game RTS genre so I want to make a channel that highlights a little bit smaller stories that IGN won't cover. IMMORTAL: Gates of Pyre is fully funded so they are going to release something, highly doubtful of its success though (nothing personal to them its just reality there's no energy or hype behind the RTS genre in general). Also Thanks for giving me that idea - I'm going to keep that one in my back pocket "SoyGate". I think I'll use that in a video if I see TOO much fanboying when there isn't actual a full video of gameplay. Maybe I'll use Soycraft 2 if I feel like the remaining dozens of Starcraft 2 fans try to impose their Starcraft 2-ness in any of these future RTS's. As for Zerospace, I like that the founder has skin in the game ( the founder is putting up is own money and he is actually programming the game). The only thing that I don't like is that there's so many SC2 players on the design part of the team.. They are going to subconsciously make it like SC2 (in a bad way) whether they believe it or not.

It probably won't... a RTS like that is sooo Niche. I think there's a new RTS .. Sanctuary ? But trying to be like that sort of RTS is a small piece of a smaller pie.

ya, I'm not sure what the end result they are going for. But they release an update and its like, "Well... its okay i guess"

you can always google it, but I did put another one in that should work. discord.gg/feVBvQYX Also It seems they made it so that you have to verify your discord account by phone in order to send messages in their server sooo.. not sure if that's the best strategy for them

I'm looking forward to trying Zerospace, it seems like out of the three , Zerospace is trying to have the most different gameplay which is the thing that matters the most. While I don't think Zerospace is going to be the next big RTS I hope it comes a RTS with a community where you can get games pretty easily. I just don't think its the right time for a big RTS to be released - it doesn't look like the economy is getting better so people are going to be less focused on leisure. But maybe in the future when people are sick of playing MOBAs on the same map for 20 years or when people get sick of FPS being released one after another, then there might be a chance for a huge RTS success.

Starcraft 2 was very nostalgic. It came out the summer after my high school graduation. But soon quickly it became clear that it was just a niche game - basically only one of my friends would play it and he would only be playing Starcraft 2 when it was 2v2 with me. I wish Starcraft 2 could have been something like a League of Legends , DOTA 2 , and CS GO where it can be a shared experience amongst friends and therefore not a super stressful experience but it didn't happen. You grow up and hit a certain age and ask yourself why would anyone (including myself) spend time in a 1v1 RTS with low player base (comparatively), low social relevance, and even when you play a RTS (including SC2) it doesn't feel like you are a commander of an army ( just my opinion) . I hope that one day a RTS can come out and at least the younger generation can discover the appeal of the RTS genre (controlling armies) combined with doing it with their friends.

this is something i will never understand. the game is as stressful as you want it to be. sc2 community is really nice. and legit: noone gives a crap about your rank anyways. we have some small community discords where we do tournaments and weird stuff and team ranked and whatnot with people ranging from masters to bronze and they all play together because they just want to have fun. when i go into ranked, i literally couldnt care less if i win or lose. i try my best yeah but my maingoal is to have fun and do some weird sht whenever i can so the opponent will actually think like: ''wth is this guy doing??'' and somehow make it work eventually. ofc i play ranked, and ofc i try to win, but do you think i care sht about if i m plat diamond or masters? is my real life any better if i have a masters border instead of a diamond one? does my gf love me less because i have a plat border instead of a diamond one? it literally means NOTHING. just play for fun and then it wont be stressfull either.

Exactly this, you've hit it on the head. The biggest aspect imo is the differences the unit designs and clutter. Everything is distinct and understandable in SC2 to the point where I'm certain Blizzard has had it outlined as one of their core principles in creating the game. It feels like this is lost in just about every newcomer to the genre. It feels like there's an overabundance of effects and graphics just for the sake of it, and it really bogs down the gameplay.

I'm taking notes incase I ever want to make a RTS in the future lol. Maybe they can have that terrain interaction with one factions . And The other kinds of battle (bio engineering, killer viruses, digital viruses, hacking) could probably used in Co-op atleast.

@@BrobdingHighlights I would love to make an RTS. I've been thinking about it for 20 years. I'm a programmer, but not a game programmer and it takes a team, but really really love the RTS genre. It has so much potential, but for some reason I don't understand no one is innovating.

This one should work - its from their Twitter : Discord.gg/UZFa7aM7Pw

Both of the games will be free to play (this one included) so I'm happy to try both as they develop / when they come out. Stormgate's art style is looking a bit Zany but hopefully the final art style looks like everything fits together.

Yeah I've always believed that besides the existing game design issues that Starcraft 2 had , the fact that it was focused around 1v1 meant it was extremely difficult to get friends into the game. No friends are going to want to 1v1 each other since RTS's skill deviations are so great between each player. If any of these future RTS wants to succeed they need to do things like make Team Games a legit mode, or at least try a 1v1 mode where they do a BO3 mode where people can search 1v1 as a party. Would be cool - but would be very surprising since most of these RTS developers have a boomer mindset.

Yeahh.. the Stormgate graphics (so far) feels harsh despite the graphics style being cartoony. And I'm not sure I like the playful art style.

The pathfinding in this game is a tiny bit more like Starcraft 1 then Starcraft 2. Their lore is Warhammer level universe type of lore, I don't know how their campaign will work since their game is going to be free to play.

@@BrobdingHighlights Interesting. Wel see.

Definitely when the next content update comes in their next ALPHA stage. They will probably have Three Factions by then...

@@BrobdingHighlights great, thank you., The 3rd faction is implemented, we can play it but with placeholders instead of 3d models, we have to wait a bit. But there is already 2 co-op maps and a mini-game already interesting to play.

It does feel slightly different when playing, the towers and commander abilities make it feel different - it just needs a little bit More of something to make it special

Because it allows you to build a gigantic deathball behind it. Theirs a commander ability that allows you to make your towers take less damage, so it feels like photon overcharge. It feels like the other player is trying to be an A Hole instead of actually playing the game.

Sounds more like a turtle mech player to me who hides behind turrets and planetaries @@BrobdingHighlights

You go to their discord and there's a channel that tells you how But for some reason It seems that you have to put in your phone number to talk in the discord. Basically if you catch a content creator streaming the game you can ask them and they will probably give it to you. The devs also do a monthly stream where they give some keys away randomly. But just check out the discord.

Go to their discord Discord.gg/UZFa7aM7Pw and you can ask around on how to play it

yeah that's one of the strong points that I didn't highlight in the video since I was just covering an Alpha playtest event that they had. The lore designer seems like a passionate dude and in the next playtest event I can bring up more about the Lore .

They say they are going to make 5 factions.

I don't think they need to bring the sc2 players but they need to find a way to attract new players ( younger players). Its free to play so there's no barrier to entry but they need some sort of catalyst to get people to try and stick with their game.

@@BrobdingHighlights yes, And I think the novelty factor as well as the fact that these developers are known for what they have accomplished before can work in their favor to do just that, I don't think asking for feedback automatically disqualifies their game, to the contrary I think it is a step in the right direction

F2P is exactly what Immortal is doing. Part of the reason why there are "immortals" in the first place is because they are like LoL champions or SC2 coop commanders. You can give them different personalities and flavor and sell them piecemeal. The devs have spoken openly about their business model, design philosophy, and the importance of casual content and onboarding new players, and pieces of this plan can be seen in the current alpha. The video mentions none or very little of this, unfortunately. The other blind spot I see in this video is coop. Most SC2 play in the past few years has been in coop mode, not ladder 1v1s, but SC2 stumbled on coop rather late. Games like Deep Rock Galactic show that you can take what is often considered a PvP first genre (FPS) and make successful, replayable PvE out of it without using a campaign. This is literally an old idea that never got the chance to shine and it is ripe for a new RTS to pick it up. Maybe new RTSes won't drop the PvP entirely but if they have a good coop mode that is something that dad gamers with no time can get behind.

Its less APM Heavy then Starcraft 2, you might like nor not like that - There's some examples like: Workers Build for you Production Buildings are your Supply Buildings as well And their hotkey scheme makes it so that you can control your army without tabbing through your army like SC2. The game is slower paced as well.. Units move slower. Might be controversial to some!

More specifically it's about divided focus. Your build order and production have to be tight, meanwhile you should scout or defend agains early harassement. And later in combat you focus on the combat itself, meanwhile you also should keep production running. This is my concern.

got to diamon with 100 apm. sure i played protoss but still. you dont need keyboard sorcery to be above average on SC2. Most matches my opponets had double my apm

I completely agree. AoE4 launched on console and made a "economic wheel" where you can assign your all villagers to gather resources in different percentages just clicking two butttons. And honestly i feel like that's the future of the genre. Automate the boring "your need 300 actions per minute just so your economy doesn't fall behind" parts and focus on the strategy, the decision making, the fights!

This seems like the closest thing in RTS universe. The right three photos at 00:47 are the concept art of the other factions they plan on making.

Warhammer is a wargame. The Space Marines immediately attack in full force and in good equipment. The Imperial Guard immediately sends a billion soldiers to defend the planet. No one lands two builders who will collect resources on a planet infected with chaos and tyranids.

A realistic RTS is hard to pull off because the instant you do that it becomes less readable. I think there's more mass appeal with stylized art - so that's why StormGate and ZeroSpace is going for that. Some people think that Starcraft 2's graphic style is perfect but if people tried to emulate Starcraft 2's graphics people are going to shout 'SC2 Clone!' and its going to get negative feedback. RTS Game developers are backed up into a corner when it comes to the Art Style.

This was the direction wc3 reforged went in, and it created big issues with ease of differentiating units. Militia and foot men for example are hard to tell apart

I don't have specific ideas on how a game would be at the A rating or above but games like AOE 2 and Starcraft Broodwar have more of the "feeling like a commander of an army" then any other RTS released since then (including AOE4). But they aren't perfect and copy pasting them into modern graphics isn't the way. A Great RTS in my opinion would be a RTS that feels like you are a commander of an army and the current meta of RTS ( Starcraft 2 ) is using some opener in order to do some eco damage and then transition into making an ultimate maxxed out army. There should be more unit interaction and unit trading between armies. And about the feedback and deserving to make a great RTS game, its more because the Genre as a whole has been disappointing so even if we waste our breaths, there's actually a chance that they release a RTS game and it has this spike in players on the first day and then two weeks later bleeds out to whatever player base Starcraft 2 has currently.

never heard of that before , It seems like RTS titles like that got obscured by Starcraft 1 (just like Starcraft 2 obscured anyh other RTS that came out past 2010. I would think that MMO RTS would be hard to do since the pool of players isn't big enough to support that - probably would have to increase the RTS player pool by releasing a PvE / PvP RTS first.

Oh for sure I'll use that in the future lol

@@BrobdingHighlights hehe nice (forgive me, im an english teacher.. sometimes i cant help myself)

Tempest Infantry looks a little small IMO , wish they were tiny bit bigger

Yeah that's one of my criticisms of RTS, why queue up for a stressful game to be more then likely cheesed or deathballed / that's only 1v1 so you bear all of the pressure. You might as well go out and Uber or something like that instead.

yep blizzard isn't blizzard anymore. ever since Mike Morhaime left.

I hope Stormgate gets people to try their game. I remember when SC2 came out and people tried it and then they were soon turned off and never played it again. I do feel however that there isn't a point of getting your friends to try playing Stormgate if they once tried SC2 and just stopped playing it. They would have to try Stormgate as part of their own decision.

The DLC for AOE 4? is that going to be really good something?

@@BrobdingHighlights we will see in about a week. In general, aoe4 got patched into shape by now.

Its going to be Free To Play so you can try it out when it does come out.

@@BrobdingHighlights nice. Imma play it.

why dosen it only have 112 subs?

Because I'm a new content creator lol. The vision for this channel is to become something like a IGN or PCGamer, or whatever but GOOD - and my style mixed in