Strong female Without having to denigrate her male counterparts. She was even able to make mistakes and gasp learn from them. Wth kinda writing is that 😂.
Definitely. She was intelligent, but didn't lord that intelligence over the men in the show. She was attractive, but it wasn't the main reason she was on the show. She was a leader, but didn't demand people follow her. The most important thing about a strong female character, or hell, any strong character, is that you can't force it. You have to make the audience BELIEVE it. Otherwise, temporary suspension of disbelief goes out the window.
In general, Stargate SG1 and Stargate Atlantis both had that positive attitude that today's shows largely lack. Their stories were about self-improvement, becoming better as individuals and as societies, overcoming struggles and solving problems. They were about people and communities pooling their skills and resources to make the universe a better place. It's not just screenwriters who need to watch these shows, but people in general. Humanity could use that kind of optimism these days.
This. Back in the day when they''d make strong female characters they weren''t purposefully writing ''strong female characters''. They were just writing strong characters. That's why every man LOVES Sarah Conor from Terminator 2, Ripley from the Alien movies, female characters like Samantha Carter in SG1 and Atlantis.
This is definitely in my top Best-Written and Superbly-Acted moments in the Stargate Franchise. "And we buried another empty casket". Simply impressive.
That was probably my favourite line from this episode. "With her last breath she took out three of Michael's Hive Ships - and we buried another empty casket." To me I really get the effect that for Rodney, a major victory over Michael was worthless when traded for Sam's life. :(
Daedalus didn't have three hives waiting to open up with everything before they could react. If anything they did a lot of damage before the Wraith could react.
TrveIrrlicht it seems that galactica was a better built ship it took so much shit, most of it primary armor plating missing & had no energy shield. With all of that it never 'sir jump drive is off line'
What happened was, they ambushed her and started firing right as they came out of hyperspace. It does take a few seconds to get the shields up, they got a few good hits in first.
Also she was believable. She wasn't a Mary Sue, she worked her ass off to get where she was, both as a scientist and as a soldier. When did Hollywood forget how to write believable characters?
SGU had a pretty rough season 1 which is a shame because once season 2 started to pick up traction I think it stood a real chance to stand out... But, of course it was too late.
@@shanehughes3511 Comedy or just quite serious is the niche Stargate found in that age of Sci-Fi. Star Trek covered the optimistic, slice of life style and Galactica with Babylon were the darker ones with true struggle. Universe reminds people of Galactica, especially with the timer and bad lighting, but that share of fans already had a show to fan over and it didn't deliver what many fans of the original held dear. SGU wasn't bad in the way people wouldn't watch it, but it just had the wrong target demographic at the time.
This was alternate timeline like the “they all drowned” originally episode “before I sleep”. I didn’t consider this as dark as the SG1 episode in which Baal tortures O’Neill.
Which was originally going to be the phoenix. Don S Davis died of a heart attack so they say in the show they changed the name fro the phoenix to the George Hammond after he died of a heart attack. Quite a nice gesture and still fits with the lore
One of my favorite episodes and it really shows how integral John Sheppard was to the success and survival of Atlantis, that it all went to shit when he "disappeared."
@@nykerianash1590 in this case he was directly saved by the man. Of course Rodney was totally flabbergasted as he hadn't done anything due to timey wimey stuff. lol
That's quite interesting. They did the same "mistake" in that alternate timeline that the ancients did 10.000 years earlier. Rely on their superior technology, but get heavily outnumbered.
It wasn't really a mistake; they had no choice. As Rodney said in his narration, it was guerrilla-style hit and run tactics. They just got caught out at the end. The alternative was to not bother and let Michael take over the galaxy.
@@danielk5780 First off let me say I love the fact this conversation kicked off over a comment from 2 years ago. That being said Earth only had 1 ship and it was hurting the Wraith. The Atlanteans had lots of ships. They could have used the same tactics to utterly destroy the Wraith but did not. They might have had better technology but their tactical ability and understanding of how bad the problem of the Wraith were, was lacking. There were probably multiple avenues to victory early on, the easiest being to direct all forces to wipe out the Wraith the moment they were known to exist. My point is the show was awesome and I love the discussion that STILL goes on between fans.
@@D3voidofsoul Well, the qeustion is: Did the Ancients even have "forces" early on? They were a race of scientists and researchers. While they had developed weapons way earlier, there was no good reason for them to have warships manned and ready for deployment during their period of peaceful expansion in the Pegasus galaxy. So, yes, if the Ancients had the means to dispose of the Wraith early on, I agree with you. But I'd put into question if they even had those means at the time. It's more likely they had a bunch of research vessels roaming around - possibly some ships deploying stargates as well. It seems they were also reacting - and underreacting in that.
@@danielk5780 an excellent point. given there nature to avoid conflict its unlikely they had a fleet of warships ready to go. especially considering they were in peacetime with civilizations no match for even there most basic technology.
Well, technically it never happened. Sheppard managing to travel back in time wiped that timeline from existence. And in the new timeline, she still got command of the ship but it was named the George Hammond instead of the Phoenix. You can see that ship in our timeline in Stargate Universe.
Disney: hey we need a cool concept for a character to heroically sacrifice herself in The Last Jedi. There's no overlap between the Star Wars and Stargate fandoms, is there?
See Disney didn't have a guiding vision for what they wanted with Star Wars the way Stargate's producers had a vision for what they wanted to make. I don't get how Disney were simultaneously egomaniacal and insecure the whole time they botched Star Wars yet with Marvel they had the good sense to trust Kevin Feige to run things his way and deliver the product. From the early days of SG-1 right up to the ends of both SG-1 and Atlantis, there was always the same core spirit to the shows. Disney just floundered in the dark with Star Wars.
The irony is that Battlestar Galactica did this first by having the Pegasus get destroyed in a suicide run, so neither of them are original in comparison.
@@madzac1000000 yeah pretty much. Why sacrifies the best ship you have, which is also a mobile factory and vital for you, to safe an old, rotting hunk a junk ship
From what I could see, Carter and the Pheonix came out close to the atmosphere of the planet. The Hive ships came in from three different directions and were at a higher altitude, catching the Pheonix in a crossfire. They couldn't dive because they would probably lose speed in an atmosphere, and any other direction was covered by Wraith ships. Since Cater had been doing hit-and-run operations for a few months, it's likely that the Wraith managed to figure out what method of arrival the Pheonix would take, and that was how they set up the ambush
Boxed in is an aviation term for kill box this a imaginary box you set up where its killzone where everything within it is fair game especially 3 hive ships disbursed can overwhelm 304 if they dont have the intitive of engagement
they could always fly in pair just for sure and use this tactics... maybe use some nuclear bombs too ? They had better sencors, faster engines, stronger weapons. That hive was destroyed after 4 hits...
They probably wanted one over Atlantis at all times, with another one doing supply runs to Earth and back, which only leaves you with one ship (Phoenix) to be out in the field. Unless they also pull in Odyssey and Sun Tzu and throw their everything onto a single front.
It's Carter, one of SG1 who's pulled Victory out of defeat a few thousand times by that point. She might be teleporting people down to the planet to pull off some crazy jump stunt.
I loved Sam's character from the first time we were introduced to her till the end of Universe/ Such an amazing and strong female character that wasn't a Mary Sure, and had faults. No she was well written and portrayed by such a great actor, Amanda Tapping. In this alternate timeline, she showed what an amazing commanding officer she was, she knew they were all dead. So, instead she got her subordinates safely off the ship and went out like a total badass. RIP Alt Sam. Nothing but respect for her character and her actor.
Strong characters sacrifice for the greater good putting others ahead of themselves and doing what other wouldn't do.They lead by example. Just like Sam Carter and Captain Kurt.
What I'm curious about this timeline is, what happened to the Daedalus and the Apollo? they were at Atlantis disposition at any time and even when its required 1 to deliver supplies to Expedition, there's 3 ships available, also there were the Travelers with his Lantean Cruiser; I'm sure Atlantis and its allies would fight back hard against Michael. Also Earth back then was very well protected, with Drone Chair at Antarctica, the Odyssey with 1 ZPM and the Tok'ra and incoming Korolev and Sun Tzu in development.
Did you miss the whole dialogue where Rodney says that the IOA and the Military didn't want to spend resources fighting a war in another galaxy. More than likely, the Daedalus and Apollo were re-tasked with fighting the Lucian Alliance, which as we see in SGU is serious threat by this point. Although, yes, at this point Earth had 5 ships (Daedalus, Odyssey, Apollo, Sun Tzu, and Phoenix) and probably could have allowed more than just the Phoenix to defend Pegasus, if bureaucracy hadn't had gotten in the way.
In an Alternative Universe I retired as a Brigadier after a 20 year career in the Royal Australian Corps of Military Police. In this Universe I declined the offer of a Commission by Direct Appointment. I’m sure My Alternative self is happier right now than I am.
Yeah, it sucks that the movie never got made. MGM being on the verge of bankruptcy at the time ruined that. By the time everything was sorted out, the sets had been dismantled and the actors had moved on. I don't think Jason Momoa would be available for a straight-to-DVD Stargate movie any more... though I guess it'd be straight to some streaming service these days.
Hebrew Yisraelite Yahawadahite Techically Kamikaze means Divine Wind in Japanese, it is only assocaited with suicidal attacks, because it was the name given to a Special Attack Unit of Japanese who would make sucidal attacks on America warships during WW2. They were given this name by Japanese officals as a propaganda tool, encouraging the Japanese pilots to volenuteer for these sucidal mission, making them believe they would become the living embodiment of the Divine Wind that would would save Japan for the "evil" invaders. Just like it did before, where the Divine Wind saved Japan not once, but TWICE from Mongel invasion, and possible conquest 100's of years ago.
Tactic was awful for a military trained officer, why exit hyperspace leaving little room to manoeuvre because a big fecking planet blocks your way. Pop out early, use your significantly more sophisticated sensors to scout the area or send a cloaked jumper, then devise your attack strategy using up to date intel.
Sam was the most BADASS female lead in a series. I loved SG1 but Sam as smarter and better than all the other women and women around her. God I soooo miss coming home from school and watching new SG1 episodes 😭
Phoenix could not take fire from 3 hives, while Daedalus took 10 of them, while Phoenix lost weapons and got a hyperdrive overload immediately. But it makes sense, considering its construction was rushed.
Daedalus was properly fresh off the line while Phoenix was incomplete so there may have been shortcuts taken by Atlantis personnel to get her running. Add to that they took a number of hits immediately coming out of FTL (so no or weakened shields) and Michael having a better understanding of Tauri designs than the initial contact with the Wraith it is plausible.
It's just as plausible as a fast moving ship being "boxed in" by three big and slow vessels in a three-dimensional space. I guess it's one of those moments in Stargate where you have to stop thinking about it and just enjoy it. :)
@@mckenzie.latham91 why would the system be shut down? If youre jumping into an situation where youre expecting battle, you wouldnt shut off your engines/drive system.
It seems she is not as good ship captain as a scientist, field officer, and base administrator. She ran from one Wraith mothership and didn't retreat from 3...
I guess this ship didn't have a cloak ..I've never understood why Atlantis didn't have manufacturing facilities to make ZPMs ..did they expect 3 ZPMs to last forever ?
Those things go boom, no more PLANET. They were stable once made (sabotage aside) but making them was risky. Remember, the Replicators were on a research outpost they built into a civilization after the Lantians were gone, they wouldn't purposefully put a ZPM factory on an inhabited world like Lantia.
The facilities and insutuctions to build them were in the database. But their was too much data to process in a few years (millions of years of civilisation to read through). Also ZPMs were super hard to make. So it's likely even with the help the humans would struggle to build them taking years if not decades to perfect them. What should have been done is when the replicator home world was destroyed a dozen teams should have beamed down. Each grabs 2 or 3 ZPMs. That's atlantis powered for a few centuries, the earth defense sytstem running for a few centuries and a few ZPMs to power super ships. Could have beamed up a few hundred thousand drones too and stolen some puddle jumpers
With all the fancy Asgard sensors and Ancient sensors you think they would of seen those hives or maybe come out of hyperspace close to the system and then use sub light to enter the system anonymously
I never could understand how Asgard weapons can blow even an Ori ship apart with one pass but Asgard SHIELDS fail after a few hits by Wraith weapons (which were not much more powerful than Goa'uld ha'taks.)
Wraith ships didn't have shields and rigid hulls. They probably absorbed or simply allowed energy to go through them with some losses, but not absorbign that much.
why didn’t carter just jump to hyperspace right away after realising the hive ship was blaring down.... (it doesn’t matter if she was boxed in hyperspace is a dimension shift as we all know) Also she engages in evasive action.... but turns back into the kill box..... if she would have went at full speed under one of the hive ships and got not the other side only one hive ship could threaten her.... and she could escape and or jump to hyperspace.
Yeah, Atlantis always had this problem; it was tied to the original just enough, yet it seemed to disconnected in the most important things. The Asuran and many SG-1 crossover episodes are where this shows most, in my opinion.
Honestly at this point in this series it made zero sense that they would have been destroyed this easily and not being able to have fought back like seriously the shields that they had were super powerful the weapons were incredible and it made canonically no sense that they were able to be destroyed this easily. They did it to be dramatic. Once they got powered up with all the Asgard Shields and weapons it would have taken six or seven hive ships to seriously actually be a threat.
It was a volunteering series of attacks. The ioa would have preferred Atlantis command just sit tight and ignore everything, such we both know Col. Carter wouldn't have none of that.
@@dragonsword7370 what I can't understand is why don't they deploy Asgard beam weapons on smaller platforms? They could deploy a dozen of ground based Asgard weapons in Atlantis or any planets they want. In that way no enemies would dare to rival the tauri colonies.
Was't there a ZPM to power up the shield? Wasn't it also used to make the hyperdrive faster so that the Daedalus came from our galaxy a way earlier than with a normal hyperspace travel?
@@denisruzicka1606 did you miss the prt about the ship being barely functional? Take a Lamborghini that's half built, and fix it without the help of a car shop. And then try and drive it like its perfect. Tell me how that goes
Now had earth built their own Version of ancient warship or super size bc 304 ( all current weapons but 3 times as many)add a zpm or asgard power source could do some serious losses.
Worst part of all sci-fi shows is how badly they butcher space combat. Space is BIG. There's no reason to exit hyperspace right on top of a planet and no way to set up an ambush with just a few ships. If you do get an "ambush" set up, it's likely you enemy is going to arrive hundreds of thousands of miles away, if not further. Consider that the moon is nearly 239,000 miles away. Even if Wraith weapons are traveling at light speed (which they are clearly not), you need several seconds of travel time at those distances. Then your chances of hitting, even a large target, would rely on it being near stationary. Overall, this scene is silly. The Asgard shields have been shown to take a much worse beating than this and Sam doesn't even try to use the beams. Considering how much success the Daedalus class had against Ori Motherships, having 3 hive ships take the ship out here, it's just not believable. Stargate always did have a hard time sticking to previously established rules.
I think certain things cannot be detected in hyperspace. I think to travel they make predictions to arrive at locations. There was an instance where the Odyssey was being tracked by the Ori, but the Odyssey wasn't being tracked through hyperspace, it was being followed by a signature given off by the Asgard core. The Ori were chasing that which could be detected even in hyperspace, not the actual ship itself. It has been well established that ships can't ordinarily be tracked through hyperspace and thats why in SG-S's final epsiode they wanted to disconnect the Asgard tech before making a hyperspace jump, so that they could avoid being tracked by the Ori.
I loved this episode purely for the dark aspects of the wraith war it addressed. Similar to the episode that Dr Frasier was in with the film crew, definitely portrayed a more gritty viewing
@Robert Christian But what if no matter which direction you go, you are within weapons range of at least one hive ship? That sounds like a pretty effective box to me. And don't forget the darts.
@@SpectatorAlius It wouldnt matter. Weapons fire from one hive the Phoenix could take for minutes. So its a very big inconsistency in this scene that doesnt make sense in the overall stargate sense of things.
I just dont get it, if you see its an ambush just fucking go to hyperspace and get out. Whats the point of just flying around gettin hit? Its not like the hyperdrive needs time to recharge you can just open one window after another but she just had insane brainlag and died. What a fucking captain.... Sometimes nothing in this show make any sense.
Because they were being fired upon from multiple different angles. No matter which way they turned they'd be in the firing cone of the cannons of at least one of the hives.
Nothing about Carter's final battle with the Wraith ever made any sense, if we take the show's own continuity into consideration. Never mind that you cannot be "boxed in" while in 3D space. Not possible. But: 1. Even if Carter's ship was rushed, costs were cut, etc, it still had Asgard core, weapons and shields. 2. Even if the ship came out "too close to the atmosphere", they still had LOTS of space to maneuver. 3. It also took the Wraith a few seconds to open fire. Plenty of time to engage the shields. 4. Daedalus tanked 10 hives + escorts + darts like a champ for what seemed like an eternity, while this ship overloads in a matter of seconds. Even without shields, no.. the ship is not made of paper. 5. Phoenix should have easily been able to wipe the floor with these hives in a matter of short order. Guessing the writers just NEEDED a way for Carter to have a hero's death. They didn't care if it violated in universe canon or not.
They were doing hit and run attacks, Sam figured she could get to the planet first and be ready to hit them as soon as they came out of hyperspace but she got beaten to the punch and ambushed
"it's an ambush!" "evasive maneuver" instead of jumping away with the hyperdrive "return fire" instead of jumping away. dead Good thing 90% of all noobs have the same thinking in FPS, taking the fight no matter how bad the ods. It's like picking flowers for me.
TheTSense first the system needs to charge so they can jump. Second you need a clear trajectory to jump so need to evade to get clear of the ship in their path. Third you apparently missed the point where their hyper drive gets damaged while trying to establish that clear trajectory.
That's a tripple no. First, the hyperdrive doesn't need to charge. At the begining, they jumped away like 10s after arriving. And the hyperdrive clear trajectory is obviously a STAR WARS thing. In Stargate, the hyperdrive ignores all objects and goes through them - see Stargate SG1 S5E17 or SGA S5E11 for reference.
"At the begining, they jumped away like 10s after arriving" Actually it was more time then that...it takes a few minutes to kill a hive ship, then get out of there... Second it takes a few minutes to stat up the hype dive as shown when the Deadalous disables Michael's hive ship later on. third as shown the ships open fire on them the moment they exit hyperspace and the damage to the hyper-drive is basically instant...
@@adammckee4192 you need to get clear to jump? Then explain how they once literally jumped an asteroid through the earth? I'm sure that if you can jump with a planet in the way, you can do so with a ship there too.
The isn't an alternate timeline though. This is the future of their current timeline. Sheppard was thrown into the future, not another alternate universe.
It is a possible future, one in which sheppard went missing. Once he returned we continued into a different future, making the events shown here an alternate timeline.
Yeah never understood why they didnt build an entire armada of these ships. Obviously at this point in the series they had the knowledge and the means to do so.
