Steven Wilson on SHRED GUITAR 

►Love your passion in the comments, but please keep it respectful. This is just Steven's opinion. And he's NOT saying: shredding is not music. He's saying: TO HIM shredding is not music. Big difference! He's only talking for 52 seconds, listen to what he actually says instead of projecting your own meaning onto it. And remember, just like you, Steven is entitled to have an opinion :)

I prefer good melodic structure over mindless shredding but every now and then you’ll find an artist that beautifully combines both the elements and the result is just phenomenal. Artists like Buckethead, Jason Becker etc.

I personally think shredding is good when it's used sparingly and intelligently, in a part where the song's structure calls for it.

The first time I realized Shreding can be emotional was while listening to Acid Rain by Liquid Tensión Experiment. It pumps my blood even now.

Shred guitar and thrash-speed rhythm playing are not a form of communication. It is a form of impressionism. The impressions can be described as metaphorically mirroring elements of life that are: fast paced, chaotic, or even climactic. Examples would include motor sports, close combat, high velocity flight, or any aggressive emotion that has rapid shouting as a lyrical counterpart. The human experience is not always a slow paced stroll, and shred guitar satisfies these elements as a reflected form of impressionism. I would also consider Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata movement III as shred piano, and it accurately captures all sorts of break-neck emotions for me from the tempest, to scrambling on horseback to warn of incoming doom as a cinematic montage. Heck, there are a few great metal-guitar renditions of that piece. It is also a form of entertainment. Take, for instance, a theme and variations Caprice by N. Paganini. The theme is stated, but it is repeatedly reanimated with skillful explorations of the harmonic structure that it hasn't really communicated anything more than the simple statement of the theme. However, the theme is re-stated again and again with so many elaborate additions that it feels like a new theme each time, and we marvel at the ability of the live performer. [edit] I do not intend to disagree harshly, but offer another point of view, because I have heard plenty of wanna-be guitarists who should NOT be "shredding". I understand and even sympathize with the sentiment of Steven Wilson.

I feel like that's sort of the point though. When the communication of emotional dynamics is ceased and replaced with an accentless technical shredding solo, it sustains the last emotional point in the song without losing tempo or having abrupt stop. Often it also conveys a specific aesthetic, such as The Zenith Passage or Jason Richardson, who often use it in a way that brings to mind aliens, robots, and science fiction. Polyphia also manages to convey a lot of emotion and feeling through shredding, such as in Aviator, where the speed increase in moving to the shredding builds up a feeling of tension that makes the cathartic release of the melodic section right after feel so freeing and airborne. It can definitely be misused and does not belong in every song, but it is still a useful tool for musicians to affect the emotional communication of a song, not just a way to show off their virtuosity. Not to mention the countless shredders whose compositional chops (Buckethead, Jason Becker, Marty Friedman, Steve Vai, to name a few) make me seriously doubt that it is inherently an unemotional technique.

The only people saying shredding is not music are the people that can’t shred.

how he ever hired Guthrie Govan is beyond me...dude is shredder extraordinaire....and by far the best guitarist he's played with with best contributions in Regret #9 and Drive Home among others...hard to bash them when you have used them in the past to your benefit...

Allan Holdsworth, Guthrie Govan, Brett Garsed, Richard Hallebeek, Greg Howe, Ritchie Kotzen, Jason Becker, Marty Friedman are all great examples of guitar players who use their speed to evoke great phrasing in their playing.

I think shredding can evoke, but it's knowing when to change into top gear. Players like Guthrie Govan and Nick Johnstone combine very melodic, beautifully-phrased parts, with some crazy chops when the song needs it.

I'm sorry but yes it is music. Maybe it does nothing to you and that's fair enough, not all music touches everyone but you've not felt anger made music coming from a fast guitar solo, or the sheer fun and exhileration coming from old school metal or the sense of awe that complex solo pieces from prog bands can generate. The range of emotions from "shredding" is virtually limitless and it's a real shame it does nothing for you...

Why does this only apply to guitar? A player of any other instrument can rip a fast solo and people marvel but when a guitarist does it it's heavily criticised.

of course it's music, he's just not feeling it. you either feel it or you don't.

Guthrie Govan and Alex Hutchings played for him...they are super shredders..but they have also great feel...

Music is Art, not science or math. There is no absolute definition of good music. It is subjective.

The flaw in Steven’s point here is that music at ANY speed that lacks the qualities he lists tends to be subpar. There are plenty slowhand Clapton-ish solos that are terrible and boring. So don’t throw them all out, yeah? There are plenty of shred solos that are exciting, raw with emotion, and intense. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. (And let’s not forget, Steven had no use for the guitar, supposedly, 2 years ago, then puts out the guitar-laden new PT album. C’mon…)

Yes! Thank you!

Shred guitar is good when the song calls for it. Plain and simple.

I agree with this - one person that comes to mind talent wise is the guitarist from avenged sevenfold. He can shred but he manages to make beautiful arrangements and not have it in every song. He does more with less and lends into the music without taking away from it. He’s extremely underrated usually due to the fact you see others shredding more but if you look more into him and the content out there you realise actually how talented he is. Has tones to die for too

I love Steven, he always talks about stuff shredders do, stuff that requires extreme discipline, stuff that make albums like Raven and HCE the masterpieces they are. Or are you telling me what Guthrie, Minemann and Holzman did wasn't shred?

I respect Steven's position. But I can't help it, I like the work of some shred guitarists. Not because of shredding, more because of their compositional qualities, of which shredding is just a part. Jim Mateos, Marty Friedman, and others.

I thought it would be fun to learn how to shred, at least as an occasional flourish. But then I realised harps exist 😅😅 People were shredding in ancient greece on those :))

Unbelievable how brilliant he is at songwriting, production, composition and even communicating, such a flow with words

I totally agree, I love a melody full of blues and feel with good sound and exprssion. Winning a sports degree on Guitar for the Olympics I'll gladly leave to others, which doesn't mean I don't think technique and good tone is important.

Steven's philosophy for music is spot-on. There are a lot of good guitarists, mechanically, in the sense that they can play the instrument "well" in a loose sense by playing very quickly or precisely. Unfortunately a lot of these guitarists are not good "musicians", they cannot create emotional or interesting music. The analogy to sport is a good one.

Very wise words.

Oh look another legend with a bad take. He's free not to like it, but "that's not music" is the kind of attitude that he can shove straight where the sun don't shine.

Just a sad perspective. No one would say that a chopin piece does not comunicate any emotion. Anger and fury are as valid in musical expression as sadness or grief/ love.

It needed to be said. Bravo. The movement reminds me of other behaviors.

100%. Been saying this my whole life!

Since I can’t shred so fast, I agree 😂

Steven Wilson is a pretentious, closed-minded hack. Just because something is fast and technical doesn't mean it can't also have emotion or feel in it. Just because he personally can't hear it doesn't mean it's not there.

YES

All guitar players that can't shred just felt good about themselves for a minute 😄

Perfect definition,!!!!!!!👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👋👋👋👋👋👋 That's not music, not melody.🤟🎸

I think that some people can pull it off in a very musical way that worth appreciating. I think of Chon and Polyphia boys, Fusion players like Guthrie, Marco Sfogli, Greg Howe, that all have amazing melodic shred capabilities that sound great.

well said .

He read my mind

Confirmo 🤙

Used to really work on speed when I was younger. Got tendonitis and had to slow down. Appreciate different parts of music now and think I agree with this guy on this where 10-15 years ago I wouldn't have

Good lyrics Abstract messages Messages Good melodies Authentic vibes Personality Attributes of true artists

Since the stone age and into the distant future there has always been and will always be somebody that says "--choose something-- is not music".

I agree with you. RU-vid has shown me there’s an endless stream of kids that can play a gazillion notes a second, but there are hardly any they can play anything I’ll remember 30 seconds after they’re done.

Steven is a brilliant musician. What about guitar solo from "Drive Home"? Is it shred? It is the perfect final of the song, it's main part.

I know very little about Steven Wilson as a person or as a musician. However, I've seen 2 short clips of him on this channel where he talks about who should make music and how. He seems to me to have something of a gatekeeper attitude towards others. I'm surprised you provide a platform for that.

There are few "only shredding" solos I actually like, but they do exist. Yngwe malmsteen has many of these

yes

Excelent

everything's good when used appropriately

I agree with everything he said

He's kinda right. As much as I love shredders, few them are actually communicating haha. Randy Rhoads was good and buckethead is good. Their shredding has emotion..

It has its places.

It is equally possible to be boring slow OR fast. It's also possible to be expressive in either. The challenge is always to find ways to express musicality no matter the tempo or context. Musicians who want versatility in their toolbox will aspire to BE ABLE to play fast so that they have the ability to express themselves musically in any context. Musicians that bemoan fast playing are often just masking the fact that they can't play as well as others.

So true.

Nah, hard disagree. Shredding, face-melting solos / riffs have given me more than my fair share of goosebumps, and have gut punched me right in the feels many-a-time. So have “slower-paced” solos / riffs too of course, 100%. Every time I hear this argument (and from Wilson), I can’t help but feel a little sorry for the people who are not able to appreciate “shredding” as much as someone like myself. I don’t mean that in a condescending way either - it’s just a shame to close yourself off from *so much* good stuff, and straight up fun.

Those shredders from the 80z also created the most iconic guitar ballads solos of that time.. And this statement is invalid as for modern guitar players cause they do little bit of everything pretty well..

He’s 100% spot on! For years I’d point to someone like Neal Schon of journey. He most definitely can shed and does live quiet a bit… but his recorded leads are so tastefully done. Those are memorable ones…. That’s why Eddie and Randy were so popular. They could shred but they composed to the song and shredded live

lol I can agree only upto certain extent tho. Certain shredders like Jason Richardson have incredible speed WITH feeling and enunciation or whatever you call it.

And then i would ask: why can it not be sporty? The main problem is not sports but rather arrogant attitudes of people who feel the need to put down non-shred content.

Steve Vai wrote “Ladies Nite in Buffalo” 👌🏼 good melody there

Go all the way back to 1972 and Santana's "Caravanserai" album. The song "Song of the Wind" is probably the greatest example of a guitar player combining skill with emotion to achieve one of the most beautiful pieces of music any guitar player could ever achieve. Prayers for Carlos after collapsing on stage the other night due to heat and dehydration.

Agree 💯

Woah, cool song in the outro. Will definitely be giving the album a listen. Also hard agree on the shredder phenomenon. It is nothing without SOUL.

That’s actually true. I grew up shredding. I still love it, but I don’t find that it could fit into every kind of song. There’s a time and place for it, surely. But it isn’t the only thing I’d like to do.

Awesome outro music. What is it ?

ngl I wish guitar shredding was a sport but sadly we cannot quantify shred-ness, because the essence of shred is thrill, accompanying musicality. I wouldn't be thrilled if I see someone playing 15 notes per second just running through the chromatic scale articulating every note as if it's the same over and over again. Shred requires musicality as well to thrill everyone.

i like bands that are fast tempo-wise but not necessarily super-technical. grindcore is great, since it emphasizes speed, and then you can be technical if you want but its not mandatory

I view extensive technical ability is best to have as another tool in the toolbox. It’s good to have the option to be able to add a complicated or challenging section when a song calls for it, but I think rarely technicality should be the focal point of a song.

I mean a lot of people like this style of music because they like the way it sounds, that is music. If you don’t like it fine I don’t really give a shit but don’t say it’s not music

Which isn’t to say that people can’t be original while shredding, but that shredding by itself isn’t enough.

Sometimes you need to not look at each individual note someone is playing, but what the emotion and intent is of the phrase. It’s why people think Gilmour plays with more “emotion” than Malmsteen. My analogy is, if you stand too close to Van Gogh’s Starry Night, it’s just tiny little paint scratches. Nothing impressive or noteworthy. Take a step back, and you see the flow and intent of the paint strokes. You see the bigger picture at the sum of its parts. Having said that… I don’t think that’s what Steven is talking about. I think he’s criticising music where there’s no exploration for new grounds or creativity in the actual songwriting. Basic chord progressions we’ve heard a billion times before with crazy musicianship over the top isn’t enough to warrant repeated listening. To him.

Yup

I heard a lot of shred boring solos and a lot of slow boring solos as well. Among my favorite guitar works are the Confortable Numb solo and Miles of Machines arpeggio madness main riff. I think musical and melodic quality can be achieved at any speed. It can be harder when it's really fast however.

Thank you!!!!! I personally feel it should be balanced but always shredding gives me an unemotional reaction, like I know you can do it but can you play something I can understand? I gave up on that thing months ago and decided to play something a 5 year old can hum. I love it when people play but I get bored after 5 mins. lol. anyway I miss you guys...lol

Pantera is my favorite band because they kick ass Black tooth grin getcha pull!

This kind of attitude falls apart when you consider how fast some Beethoven or Paganini pieces are played, for example. Or countless other types of music in genres other than rock. No one accuses them of "not being real music". Everything has it's time and place of course, and everything in moderation, but the dumbing down of music is a modern phenomena usually pushed by people who have limited musical ability.

True.

you do you

You know what!! Rap, R n' B, Techno, Grindcore, Trash metal, Vuvuzela or yodel as long as there are people listening and enjoy it, it still call a music. Even some people called music to a V (V8, V10, V12) engine sound, including me. Sport is when you improve you muscle or brain ability by doing such thing, at least that is the main goal. Not the sound it makes. Cheers.

What's the first background music

Shred can be used for interesting harmonic results, being pretty much metal's equivalent of a jazz solo, the problem is people nowadays think of it as you do, just sport, and it now has no soul.

Malmsteen is an example! But I don't see the problem-musically with shredding in feks:"Under A Glass Moon". That solo is phenomenal!! Probably the best metal-solo ever made!!

You can really proficiently create very interesting atmospheres with fast and technical guitar techniques such as sweep picking I love metal, and there are many bands that use their technical abilities to create an elitist, psychological vibe like an orchestrated chaos that has a meaning beyond the empty show he's talking about

I have a shred channel on RU-vid with lessons I agree to a point. It is fun at times but needs a balance. I have played with many Paul Gilbert Becker Friedman were all in my class at Git and was a fun time but look at them now Vinnie Moore ufo , Paul plays blues, Friedman moved to Japan lol . Again it has to be tasteful and balanced! I ended up in a popular dance band myself because we realized we needed money to survive. Lol if done good you can throw it in at times. I try to teach a balance music is music . But doesn’t mean all music sounds great.

so Steve, what's the solo of "The Best of Time" by Dream Theater?

There are moments when you do have to shred. Just check In This River by Black Label Society. Thats just needed that shred for Dimebag. its a beautiful song. If you can shred it doesent mean you have to shred all the time. Its a tool in your toolbox. And its good and cool to have.

When I was first learning to play guitar I wanted to shred. I never could manage it. So my only other option was to be melodic. 40 years later I still can't shred and have no desire to. Very few players can shred and play melodically at the same time.

I’m starting the Anti Shred Squad, also knows as the A.S.S.

My opinion exactly. Guitar is an INSTRUMENT which means it’s a tool for creativity and expression. It is and should not be merely about your ability to ‘play the guitar’ as though it were an end in itself, but to EXPRESS YOURSELF and create something unique and resonant. Watching and hearing guitar olympians outnote each other is like watching ‘builders’ compete in an increasingly bizarre and difficult hammer juggling competition. All this machismo showmanship without even knowing how to use those hammers to create a new space for people to live in. What a strange world we live in.

Andy James proved this wrong

That was a brilliant analogy, music is not a sport. Unlike Guthrie Goven, Buckethead and the likes, most shredders only care about speed.

In the end speed is just a tool, just another dynamic you can use in your music. Sometimes the song calls for something fast, and that's when you want to be able to shred. When you think about it: people who can only shred and use that as a crutch for their writing are no more or less limited than those who can only play slow, wailing solos or rhythm work. One isn't automatically more appropriate for the song than the other.

100% Agree with everything said in this video.

I think he is absolutely right. I don't enjoy most of the shredding stuff because I don't feel anything hearing them. It's a personal choice. I was thinking the same about shredding, it's more like sports of guitar playing, like he says. I do enjoy few shredders like Guthrie and some others, but I think he talks about 'general' shredders which are expressing less or no feelings when playing. It's my personal opinion.

Rick Graham is a great example of someone who tastefully uses his technical abilities

Depends on where you put it... right place, right mean, right time, right power, it all be alright even perfect

You can say that if you want to... but there is this guy named Michael Romeo. He can do anything.

Steven: "you should make music because you're passionate about it. make the music that you want to make." also Steven: "i dont really like shred guitar, it isnt music to me. it's impressive but it doesn't do anything for me." commenters on both videos: "...and i took that personally."

That’s what cool about music, not everyone connects the same way with a given song. Different strokes for different folk🤷🏻‍♂️

I think it's just another timbral texture. And it is more of an emotional symbol than a conveyor of emotion. And as many have said, it should be used sparingly if not sparsely. In fact, the only Dream Theater songs that usually stick with me, are the ones with good melodic motifs, i don't get the hype with Glass Prison. I think, great examples of good use of shred are, The Best Of Times (Dream Theater) and In Exile (The Pineapple Thief).