Being a new BB6 user and never having had anything larger than 10's I have questions, but with this approach you've shown the trade offs and options available for these larger subs and a lot will apply to other sizes. It was a good tour of features also. Nice work!
I tend to look at Qtc & Fsc (of any woofer in a sealed box) to determine if a woofer will work or not and size of sealed section(s), depending on overall goals. Biggest mistakes I see with 4th order BP's are too much ported side airspace & port area and not enough sealed airspace. 4th BP's are fundamentally a sealed box; proper sealed volume is most important. The ported side is just a boost to the dynamic of the sealed side, so choose where in the bandwidth of the sealed you want to boost it, and how much. The Fc/Fsc/Frc of a 4th is relative to ported tuning, but if you have a woofer in sealed that has a low Hz Fsc, then if you tune to that, then the whole response will be low. Sometimes you need to tune the ported side a little higher if the sealed side is resonating relatively low to boost higher frequencies. All of it depends on what your goals are. Don't calculate airspace or port area by ratios, but go by how much the woofer can effectively use. EBP is important, but Qtc and Fsc are more important, IMO, when it comes to actual usability of a woofer. Good video, I like the detail. I'd like to see one on parallel and series 6th order BP's :)
I wish I had the knowledge to make video on 6th order design. Something I've done a few times but not enough to develop a real understanding. I will forever be learning and refining my craft. Thank you so much for your detailed response and honest feedback.
@@caraudioresource3818 I've done many series 6th orders. They are a sort of art-form, IMO. Same thing as 4th BP's and Series 6th's, rear chamber is most important. I think true parallel 6th orders tend to excel in home audio type systems. I get exponentially more series 6th order design requests than parallel 6ths. It's honestly hard to give up what I think are the secrets of series 6th's BP's. They can be made so many different ways; all the ports and airspaces all interact with each other, and they're actually more versatile than they get credit for, IMO.
@@buckboxdesigns How does a series 6th compare to 4th in terms of sound? I went to my first audio show last year and recall that of the 6 trucks I demo'd back to back (all around the same db and similar tunings/bandwidths), the ONE 4th order truck seemed to have more cabin/bodily pressure and poked at my ears and sinuses more despite having the same or less windiness. Looking to confirm whether or not this is a general truth, or just a fluke/specific to that particular guy's build. Also, as I understand it, 4ths are potentially a little better for sound quality due to lower group delay and whatnot, at least if you don't have some ridiculous ratio. In fact, I've heard that negative ratio 4ths can be almost "ideal" and that's actually got me wondering about the idea of an infinite baffle bandpass. Basically, instead of a sealed side, run the subs open on the face into the bed/atmosphere, and port the back box into the cab (blow through, I have a single cab ranger) using standard-ish ported box specs.
@@Drunken_HamsterYou’re correct with a lot of what you said. Fundamentally, a 4th BP is a sealed and a series 6th is ported, so expect BP’s to follow the same natures as the primary or foundational chambers. The second part you mentioned gets into complexities that are too much to type.
@@buckboxdesigns Nice. So if I like that body pressure and the crispness of every cycle of a given frequency, I should stick with 4th order, IB, horn, or sealed? Also, what side of the EBP scale should I consider for IB/tapped horn/T-line? And, generally speaking, how should I "tune" sealed and 4ths and whatnot to hit lower? My brother, who did builds in the 90s, says "Up to, 20% bigger than spec box, then dampened" but I also assume it's a bit of woofer choice, so...
Interesting at 10:10 that you say the U series is bad for sealed and Z series is good, because sundown says the opposite. Are there other factors that could make that rule untrue?
I totally agree, there is no one perfect ratio or size it is totally driver dependant. Right now I am looking at a 4th order for my MTX 7512-44 that is currently in a sealed 1.4. I modeled a 1.5 1:1 and out of curiosity I modeled one of my kicker compR 12's and ....utter garbage response.
I obviously need to get bass box pro. Built my 1st 4th order last year for 6 15s in a wall. My own design. Have been wondering if I could do anything to make it better. So thanks for the video. My subs have a high qts at like 1.1. Some people say it's bad and others say it's good. I love they way they play but what does a high qts like that hurt or help?
Bassbox is my favorite but also somewhat of a hindrance with box creativity. A few assumptions will stump you because you aren't confirming data of the environment or drivers, which can vary wildly from stated specs. This can make the "perfect" Q not as ideal as you would think. Many great designs had a Q much higher than you think due to cabin gain. Also, some high EBP drivers in sealed boxes tend to play very naturally in the vehicle and down to frequencies much lower than on paper sans cabin gain. Dayton HO, old-school Solobarics, the list goes on. Conversely, subs with a seemingly perfect Q and EBP can often sound boomy and wind up with less extension because of playing too flat below where the sub should actually dovetail with the car. Of course, this is somewhat subjective depending on the objective of response. Still, many get this wrong. My suggestion is to take more measurements.. cabin gain is NOT an art. It is pure science and must be measured... not assumed as BB6 applies. How you implement it may be an art. Many still get it wrong in their objective
What's your opinion on a 4th order box for a 12" zv6? I want to do a center console build for my GMC Sierra, and I saw a really nice 4th order someone designed on the sundown Facebook group, but doesn't mean it's good sounding. I can easily build just about anything, but designing is a harder feat when it comes to audio specks. I usually just build a ported based on the recommendation from the manufacturer.
People on the internet - "I don't trust professionals because of... reasons, so I'm here asking random strangers for important help on a problem I won't fully explain"
What side of the EBP scale should someone consider for an infinite baffle sub? What about an IB bandpass like I proposed in my other comment? (basically a reg 4th order bandpass, but with the sealed side being 4x-10x or more of VAS.)
HEY BUD! GREAT MATERIAL. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU CAN HELP WITH FIGURING OUT WHAT I AM DOING WRONG WITH MY BASSBOX6 PROGRAM!. all of my graphs are similar to what your look like, except cone displacement. all of my ts input seems correct, there is a green light next to everything, if i go through and delete the parametrs and then let BB^ calculate them they come right back the same-ish but, am i reading my graph wron" by the looks of it, even though i have a ebp of 46 with this 15 inch woofer, and managed to get a Q .706 with typical dampening.. according to the graph for cone displacement.. this subwoofer is going to literally explode hahahaha 532.6 in/18.75hz at 1,000 watts or it will play at 2.079khz per 0.18in im not going to build a 4th order, i am more or less just trying to undersand the program. i build mostly kerf ports with an isobaric setup, one sub firing out the front of the box and one sub phase flipped firing down into the box right above the front firing sub.looks cool, loud as fuck.. idk people look at my setup around my city and go.. wtf is that? thats sick!!!! i want that how much... im sure you alredy know.. if you get back to me i would really appreciate it. is there some way to send you my facebook? or current phone number?
You should be able to find me on Instagram under cardio resource. Although I'm not Super Active there anymore. Tell you what Ira track business and our company lines can receive text messages. That number is 657-777-2869
What abt doing a windy build with a 4th order, single 12" trunk build strictly rated at abt 1200wRMS..cancyou help me design.. im eager to get in touch
It would be equally awesome if people wouldnt post videos on RU-vid tryin to sell designs. Put that junk on classifieds & forums, if business is so bad that a video format ad is needed, reevaluate...maybe make some bird houses and sell em at the local nursing home.
He was using laymans terms. I know because this is how i though/described the sound of sealed enclosures, before i knew the proper meanings. Example: An avg. person says tight, when they mean boomy(but they dont know the real meaning/definition)like sound from a sealed enclosure with a Qtc of 1.2. Then the other way, an avg. person says that sealed enclosure sounds sloppy(but its actually taut, or over damped) like sound from a sealed enclosure with a Qtc of .5
