Stop Griefing in D&D! - Dnd Horror Stories 

Thank you very much Kobold Quest for sponsoring this video! Kobold Quest Kickstarter: www.kickstarter.com/projects/amarik/kobold-quest-from-ashes-to-empire?ref=discovery

I have no idea why people enjoy that. Some of the most fun moments I’ve had in D&D involved helping my friends do something incredibly awesome or stupid.

I think my most hilarious and frustrating example is early in a campaign, the DM planned an encounter for us. I won initiative, and on my turn, I made an intimidation roll and roleplayed to immediately resolve the encounter. The DM confirmed the enemy was going to stand down, but we were still in turn order. The DM said "alright, X, it's your turn." He says "uhh...I go up and attack with my hammer." Sigh...........

There was a player in my games that used to fart on another player in game. I use the “consent rule in my game, where if something is actively hostile toward another player, I ask the person who the player is “attacking” whether it’s ok or not. If they decline, then it doesn’t happen. The player obviously declined every time but the farting player kept trying. That player eventually left due to not being in the same high school as us and effectively ghosting us. I definitely feel like I should have dealt with it better but this was my first time dealing with a toxic player, so it was a learning experience at least.

There was one character in "Dungeons & Doritos", the Tiefling warlock Jen'Ifer (played by the famous Brian Clevinger, creator of "8-Bit Theater" and "Atomic Robo") who was very much the "Chaotic Stupid" and "Stupid Evil" type. He would almost always take the evil option in every situation, regardless of the immediate or future consequences, even doing such things as interrupting or disrupting his own allies attacks during combat, even with his own life on the line. To be fair though, the players and DM all went into this game fully aware and approving of this character (the other party members were a good-hearted Goliath shaman, a self-centered Dragonborn sorceress obsessed with shiny things, and a former chair that had been recently transformed into a Dwarf).

Example of how things can work out. Our campaign we have a dude named Shadowthorn. Works for raven queen and hunts down anymore messing with breaking the cycle of life and death. My character is a half elf artificer who grew up exiled from his kin of both sides. His only friend was a lion he befriended and has outlived. He managed to trap it's soul in a stone and crafted an eternal body to implant the soul in (The Steel Compion I call a forge lion). Sensing our characters inevitable conflict we talked it over and he agreed that his character would not pick up on the necromancy enegy from the stone somehow so we could play together. And when I do rez the lion in a Steel compion our characters who are now like brothers would have a fateful showdown then and his only goal would be to kill the lion and mine to run. So no griefs. A little compromise can make for an amazing arc for your characters.

"It'S wHaT mY cHaRaCtEr WoUlD dO!" This generally means "I made a character that doesn't work well with the game.".

DM hated ranged rogues, thinking they were cheap, which I didn't know at the time. Still, I made a halfling rogue and he accepted it. So I would shoot my shortbow from range, and bonus action hide... When we returned to town to restock, oh, would you look at that, there's another arrow shortage. Okay, good thing I'm a carpenter with woodworking tools... But I'm not a blacksmith to make the arrowheads, apparently, and oh golley gee, the blacksmith is already swamped with work. Later on in the campaign we found a magical light rapier, and as the only one who could use it, I got it... Only to find out it was cursed the moment I attuned to it. When sneaking, roll a D20. 10 or lower, and the blade would light up because it thought sneaking was dishonorable, revealing my position. Leave it in the cart with the rest of our loot? Oh look, a minute later it's back on my belt, because it needs to be within a certain proximity of it's wielder. Most infuriating, passive aggressive DM ever. Oh, and since I could reroll 1s as a halfling, he made 2s a critical fail for me.

Session 0 can only cover so much. I agree, just communicate when the situation arises. Communication fixes most issues at a table.

Half-orc Warlock, GOO patron, Pact of the Tome, insane. Other players thought I was trolling/griefing. They hated him until they figured out his insanity meant he literally couldn't say "No" or refuse an order. Became MVP afterwards.

New 1st level spell: Protection Against Griefing.

A point that could have been a grief on my part: Party was in a dungeon. Our wild magic sorcerer’s familiar had just been attacked by giant spiders around the corner, because he sent the familiar to go scout. Naturally, Sorcerer panicked and rushed in to save his friend, and party rushed in to support our party member. I forgot that we were in a cave. I “fired off a breath weapon” to eliminate the cobwebs as best I could so the party could charge in. Now, I was playing a Way of the Ascendant Dragon Monk. I did not have to use Fire damage for the Breath Weapon, I could have used Acid for the same effect. But… I FORGOT TO SAY THE DAMAGE TYPE. And DM heard “I FIRE OFF a Breath Weapon” and assumed I lit the webbing on fire. In a natural cave. Underground. WITH NO OBVIOUS OXYGEN SOURCE. THANKFULLY the party stopped out-of-character for a moment once the goof was discovered so we could check the rules, and we realized that because we were Adventurers we could hold our breath for several rounds of combat without issue (there’s rules about that, something like 1 minute which is ten rounds of combat at a minimum I think before you would start to struggle to breathe?) So the battle continued normally, and it played into my character’s 8 Intelligence (I loved that dude, he was so much a well-meaning dunce who could suss out intentions better than most 😂)

The fire to web thing has an example I can point out for your next planning: the web lasts for 1 round after you use the fire damage around it. So if you as a team believe that you won't need the control the next turns and instead want the damage boost that comes from webs burning, go for it! But indeed, you should ALWAYS plan that stuff with players or discuss about your mistake after, and of course you need to be nice to your team.

Ok but listen: Web gives the restrained effect, so an enemy trapped by web is going to roll that dexterity saving throw from fireball at disadvantage, that could change the whole combat. Also the webs take 1 round to burn and deal additional damage to the creatures trapped

There's a reason the uninvolved players didn't speak up. "...Accordingly, all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." - Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence People don't want to make waves and cause friction because they might be hurt directly, in other words. It doesn't affect them at this exact moment, so they'll go along to get along.

Right now I’m playing a character that by all means should have been executed on sight by town guards, at least one party member, and a majority of the different NPCs. I’m playing a Warforged barbarian that’s the animated steel grafted to the bones of a dead Bhaal cultist and who is very obviously 1: a skeleton, 2: a barbarian, and 3: has the literal symbol of Bhaal emblazoned on his fuckin forehead. But the DM gave me the go ahead and it’s played out so well. Being part of my party is what allowed my character, who was an automaton but has gained sentience and wants to be a hero, to develop into a full fledged person. Together around the table we’ve seen the Self Aware *redrum* Machine or SAMM grow from barely able to speak to people and constantly being on the edge of being arrested just for who he is, his processed voice and general “evil” appearance, to now little kids watching the arena of Nyanzaru wear wooden masks painted with shiny silver paint to look like his completely skeletal face. Everyone knows him as SAMM, they know he’s a good person and a strong fighter, and he even got blessed by a new god in Ubtao, Titan of Chult and he’s now a Wild Magic Barb 8 Twilight Cleric 4. NONE of this would have worked to tell such an awesome story for my character if it wasn’t for my DM and fellow players allowing me to experiment and all of us being on the same page about how the story should go. Communication and consent and interaction are key to a good game, and griefing is not part of that.

The DM's job is to help facilitate a player's character choices, from creation to roleplay. If the DM then goes back on that player, it's a betrayal of trust. If I play a goliath, and the DM tells me that goliaths are ostracized from society, then immediately attacks and kills me with city guards the first time I show up, the DM has set me up for failure.

DM griefing is crazy, too many DMs go on powertrips and think they're like dictators instead of friends trying to have fun

8:22 GATOR, GET OUT OF THAT VEHICLE RIGHT NOW! YOU ARE NOT A LICENSED DRIVER! >:[

Probably the worst case of griefing I’ve ever experienced was with a fellow player playing a life domain cleric ‘pacifist’. He wasn’t even really trying to actively sabotage (at first), but he clearly thought playing a healer who refused to participate in combat in a cooperative game was somehow okay. To give a few examples of things that actually happened in this campaign: -Party fights some skeletons. Cleric is afraid of undead, runs into the next room and barricades the door, then proceeds to spring a pitfall trap that nearly kills them while the rest of us are still fighting. -After getting inadvertently split from the party in a dungeon, overhears the party getting into a fight and proceeds to outright decide ‘I won’t see if they need help because I don’t want to fight, so I’ll go explore a different room instead.’ Proceeds to walk in on a bunch of bugbears who try to attack them. They decide they’re going to run towards the rest of the party, bringing the bugbears with them as the rest of us are already dealing with a hard fight, leading to a player death and a near TPK. -After some ‘character development’ where they decide they now hate undead, the party encounters a flame skull and some other monsters and want to avoid fighting them, so the ranger makes clever use of shape water to seal the door they’re behind shut with an ice block…only for the cleric to use Destroy water to remove the ice block because ‘I have to destroy all undead now’, resulting in a fireball hitting all of us and again nearly killing everyone. At some point I just couldn’t understand if it was a deliberate choice to sabotage or if they were just that out of touch with the unspoken rules of the game.

This is an amazing video. I'm going to save this and add it to my notes for points to bring up on a session 0 and I know of some DMs who could use this information. I think awareness is the best way to approach these topics, and will lead to better games for everyone.

was in a session recently where the problem player, after leveling, just obtained modify memory. immediately as soon as the session started used it to mess with the other members of the party. After voicing dissent for this, the dm was saying in their "obviously trying to hide story stuff" way that there was a reason he was being such a bastard. I had an argument with him about how, then that's his fault (the dm's) for allowing/enforcing troll-condusive character building.

With the thumbnail, I thought that it was a typo of "grieving". This is a first for me hearing the term.

I can finally put a name to what happened to my second ever DnD character (he was an exact copy of my first who died in session 2 after accidentally encountering a boss monster alone). Another one of the players grew to dislike me and so his character was constantly using his very high Persuasion skill to convince mine of various stupid things and convince NPC's to not trust me. Ultimately he convinced a brand of orcs that I alone in the party was their enemy and so as my character was tied up and beaten up my character yelled out that if he survived this then that guy's character was dead. This guy's character then convinced the orcs to kill mine. I was willing to move on since it was just a game, but it still irks me that he seemed to do everything that he the player wanted to do to me in the game and the DM went along with this. We finished the semester and I never played with that guy again though I did have some fun with some of the other people and that DM in another short campaign.

It has happened to me while playing a swarm keeper that a playing threw fire on my web while sounding optimistic. After combat I asked him "why?" and he said really happy that it was to deal more damage. It happens. He didn't mean harm. I explained to him that if they are stuck we get more turns to attack them and that does more damage than burning the web and his mind was blown! Everyone won that day.

As a player of many years, the biggest problem with resolving any game issue by leaving the game can mean risking losing everyone at the table as friends. It's been my experience that over time a game group can gel and become friends outside of their game. These friendships can last beyond the end of a campaign/ game. However, if the game ends badly and someone leaves the group...in EVERY circumstance, I have seen the friendships end, because the main reason they became friends was because they gamed together. Once they can no longer game together and the actual problem between them is the game.. well, it pretty much means they simply can't be friends anymore. This is not an issue so much with online games or games at a game shop where no real friendships develop outside of the game itself, but otherwise it's a risk that extends beyond the game.

As a DM, I sometimes grief a player. I do this by picking an enemy that player is weak against, but another is strong. I do this so everyone can have fun in combat every once in a while. For example, the Fighter recently changed classes to a Paladin-Fighter multiclass. I put them in a rowboat, knowing the Aaracokra would scout ahead and guide them through the rocks. He spotted the disguised ambush and decided to help the shipwrecked maiden. Turns out, she was a Siren, and had undead sailors under her charm and command. The Paladin and third player (once the rowboat came into range) were able to use his Aura of Protection to let him save (sorry third player), and he got a Crit Smite on the Undead Captain for ludicrous make-Player-grin-like-a-loon damage (I do the Max + Roll optional rule, rather than doubled dice).

Had a story like this. Player got a fancy new item that was basically the hookshot from Zelda, they could use a bonus action and move in a straight line up to 30 feet. They are an attention hog and tried to do something drastically bad for the party during a fight. Cutting a rope bridge down that is the only main path forward across an insta death drop, on the first round. There were two basic fodder orcs on the bridge as his rational and after arguing the DM just said for us to drop it. Which is fair, that was the 2nd argument that day we had. What ended up happening is my strength build mr no dex fighter nearly died because it was deemed an acrobatics thing to get across (which I agree with, ruling wise) and the DM then had me make a dex save after my failed acrobatics, and I failed that because I again have 0 dex. My DM felt bad that my character was nearly gonna die in such a shitty way that he bs'd an excuse to save them. Immediately after that, I made a mistake and snapped at the guy who cut the rope bridge when he, as I said he would, tried to show off his new fancy magic item immediately after, like my character's near death wasn't his fault. He was kicked for constantly doing stuff like this, and getting into constant arguments with other players.

A very good and topical video. Appropriate for all tables. Thank you for your always awesome videos (:

Random poison idea, use as you'd like: James Gel; deals 1d4 acid damage to affected creature or mechanism for every action they take over the next 3 rounds. Upgraded to 3d4 on construct type mobs, or complex machines. James Gel is a nearly clear, faintly yellow goop which hardens into a simple crust while oxidizing. It's most notable feature is that its PH shifts wildly when compressed. Peridically produced as a byproduct of creating certain poitions. Despite the countless rumors, nobody is quite sure why it's called James Gel. Any god willing to speak on the matter has confessed ignorance to the origin of the substance, and its moniker.

I love Gator so much! A video doesn't feel complete unless they are in it

I once had an openly chaotic evil character who would bathe herself in blood given the chance. She had no interest in hiding her intentions with the party, even the lawful good paladin. One session, the paladin pulled her to the side and was like "Hey I know you like your murder, and you're good at it... but maybe you could ask me before you murder someone in the future?" She was reluctant about it, but ended up agreeing, and after that they became the best of friends. I feel bad for RBull. My evil little murder hobo being told not to do something by daddy paladin was probably some of the most fun I've had role-playing during my 10+ years of d&d. I wish RBull's story turned out like mine

Ha, I was just browsing Kickstarter and looking at Kobold Quest as I was watching this, and surprised to see it mentioned at the end. Backed.

I was playing in a multi-group, pvp campaign, but more of a group-vs-group thing. I had a genious int 20 @lvl 1 (rolled stats) paranoid Divination wizard and in one of our quests we found out that a vampire lived in the city we were in. The martial in our group had a secret side arc where he made a pact with the vampire, betrayed us all and in the only session I had to miss, I was executed as a cinematic by the state wizards. The whole group stopped playing afterwards. I had a whole mini-session with my DM about how I had my tower filled with exit points, glyphs of warding and blind spots that only I and the handsomely paid dwarven architect know about. We paid a fee for the campaign and DMing service as well!! Noice! I never played there again

I need those Grief Seeds to purify my Soul Gem tho

Currently playing a Sorcerer with an Intelligence of 8 (it has been hilarious to be the "Magic Dummy") but I've been trying REALLY HARD not to be a detriment to the party/let that Intelligence be more of a roleplay aspect, like saying dumb things here and there and being abit slow realizing things. When it comes to interactions tho he's been 100% cooperative, helping with plans like making the Rogue invisible so it can better sneak in the noblemen's house, taking combat seriously and not wasting time nor spell-slots on "quirky decisions", forcing an enemy to flee to their base with Suggestion so we can follow them and locate said base, etc. I'm very glad to say the party loves him, 8 months playing and haven't griefed by accident!

At the start of this year, I had to leave a D&D game for reverse of the LG Paladin story in this vid. I was asked by the DM, to play a LG Paladin (for some story arch reason) rather then the ranger I had rolled up. Right off the bat the rest of the party would RP demeaning my paladin for being both a paladin and being LG. I ignored it, and played stoic. The NE Wizard seemed to be trying to provoke me in to doing something against him or the party every session. Even trying to get me killed in combat, by dragging mobs to me, and then using AoE spells on me and the mobs. He even used the old excuse, "Its what my Evil Wizard would do." I kept it cool, and continued to play stoic to the antics and a passive LG alignment. This only seemed to make the wizard more determined and frustrated he could not get a reaction out of me, or accidentally kill my character (I was just to tanky). The harassment got very old tho... After a time, I feel the poor attempts at bullying the Paladin became attempts to bully me. At that point I was done! I was not having a lot of fun. I was not playing the character I wanted, the other players felt hostile toward the character I was asked to play by the DM, and the DM was letting happen (saying, it was just RP when I talked to him about it). I politely left the table/game soon after. Without a word the next day the DM unfriended and blocked me from all contacts. *Shrug*

THIS IS MAKING TONS OF ASSUMPTIONS BUT FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT I HAD A THOUGHT: That Fighter attacking the sleeping wolves could be using some form of a Coup-de-Grace rule, where an Incapacitated enemy can be Beheaded as an action, thus killing them outright. Being asleep is Incapacitated. Fighter could have thought “Those sleeping wolves are sitting ducks, we can eliminate them without them waking up.” THIS ASSUMES THAT SUCH A RULING WAS ACCEPTED IN THE PARTY. Sure in the moment the 5 alert wolves are a problem, but the Fighter is theoretically tanky and can withstand their attacks for a round of combat while eliminating future threats (I know, melee danger plus martial disparity makes this unrealistic but a newbie could assume this). Plus the noise of combat could wake up the three sleeping wolves, unless Sleep just makes them zonked out completely and can only be awakened with an Action from an ally? Sure 3 wolves peeling off to wake their comrades is a possibility, and sure that takes 6 wolves out of the combat for a round, but if the Coup-de-Grace ruling is accepted then that’s 1 less wolf the party has to kill. Instead of eventually facing 8 wolves, now you’re facing 7. Every kill counts in the end, and the power of a kill is probably more impactful than temporarily distracting 6 wolves at most, 3 at minimum. Point is there’s an advanced argument that could be made, ONLY IF SUCH RULINGS MATTER. What do you all think?

The importance of "except for bullys", they allways try to use the "is for every one" as a shield to let them bullyng and griefing. Great video, wil be great have more like this.

who griefs at a tabletop? you're within ass-kicking distance of all your victims.

So in a game when I was basically a revenant, a guy used Turn Undead on me in order to stop me from slaughtering evil cultists. We had been building up to this awesome moment for like 30 irl minites too. And this dude was like "Fuck this guy". Dude was also such a munchkin too. He could not have any negative stats.

The first example of burning the web, was something that was done in game we all faild our strength save besides the Barbarian but he couldn't get out past the web. Everyone was freaking out, I offered to burn the web because that's all I could do the party majority agreed so I burned the web then used my movement speed to catch up with our escaping enemy.

Good vid I recently joined a party and they are great, one guy definitely fireballed my web, but it was toward the end of the fight. I really didn’t mind but they apologized and made sure I was okay with it.

i had a curious case as a game master its a group from college who plays with eachother with a good frequency, and one player is so heavy on roleplaying(i wouldnt say good but heavy) that 50% of his combat actions are roleplay(playing music, laughing at the enemies face, dancing or smth like that) and he really feel fun playing that way, and we masters agreed to balance encounters not counting him as a player in the difficulty(bc he is the newest player and dont know how to optimize even his combat action turns, leading to a reeeealy low dpr increase to the party) i proposed to start a new campaign based on some artifact, the first one i gave the option no one was really interested, so i changed it, the second one the players loved it, but the only one who could really use the artifact didnt wanted bc he wanted a greatsword and not a long, and said to give the new player the artifact the campaign would be harder bc of the artifact and i feel i would be griefing as a master giving the one who will not use really the thing that ballances the campaign so i tried to make the item more flexible(making it capable of being a short, long or greatsword), have i done the right thing?(the players ended giving the sword in form of a short to the third player)

A situation: I was playing a caster, and wanted to use an AOE damage spell on the monsters, and said so; the player of a melee paladin had a choice of 2 spots to stand, one which would be in my AOE, and one that would be outside my AOE. He chose to stand in my AOE, and block my spell. So I blasted him anyway. He was angry about it, but I said, you chose to stand in my way, when you had a choice not to. Learn anything? Also: NOT a new player, he knew what he was doing. Who's the A$$hole?

{Note: everyone is close longtime friends, of between 15-40i years... The campaign started maybe 4-6 months into the pandemic, and lets face it... Everyone went at least a little crazy in our own unique ways at the time... High strees and/or cabin fever?} 'Luck Favors The Bold' 'I always land on my feet' 'Friends Are Worth Dying For' 'jumps in with both feet without testing the waters. Chaotic Good Halfling Ranger(5)/ Rogue(1), playing the Acquisitions Inc. campaign... Dandy (me) was always making 'questionable judgement' calls, like climbing in the poison Jacuzzi in ch. 1, or jumping in to hold off 3-4 enemies so our warlocks were safe... Or running too far ahead of the group on the first roundnof combat to take out enemy archers/etc. (gloomstalker class bonus movement and attack use-it-or-lose-it)... Reckless little phuq, but tried to make sure not to jeopardize otheers in the party. Anyhow... We fiinish up with the grove (near the end of the campaign) and are talking to an NPC... I asked if the waters were no longer corrupted and received affirmation. I state Damdy is walking down to the water, everyone else is asking the NPC about other things. I state that I fill a canteen, store it away, then cup my hands, scoop some water, and take a drink for myself... (Hey, Dandy was thirsty, NPC implied it was no longer tainted, and I wanna make sure it is safe for if/when my friends use it later... DM: Wait, you actually do that?! Me: Yep DM: (frustrangrily) That's stupid. I thought you were joking when you said that... Youre Really going to drink from their sacred waters? Me: c'mon, its TOTALLY what Dandy would do! And the deed is done. (Mumbled agreement from a few others over Discord) DM: (huffs) Fine, make a percentile roll, I need to find the relevant table... DM doesnt find one in the campaign, looks thru the DM handbook, finds one he doesnt hate the results of, I roll, DM looks at the corresponding result and rejects the option, goes to an adjacent bracket, doesnt like it.. picks another nearby bracket, doesnt fit. Third time is the charm? Guess so. DM: Dandy goes into a deep sleep and iis unable to be roused for [d] days. Make a copy of your character sheet and adjust it so Dandy is back to being level 1 (rogue) Summary: I was going to have to do some soul searching and make reparations so my character would have some epiphany and mellow out/learn fear or something... I state that Dandy would have NO reason to think that way... He'd see it as a blessing or favor... I mean, the last time he was that age he didn't have the friends, connections, resources oragical equipment... He'd see it as a do-over in life where this time he has all these advantages... I tried to appease him somewhat by having our cleric teach me to pray and speak with her god to find out why my luck has seem dnti change (leas effective in combat, no spells, damage seems to take a higher percentage of my total HP, etc. Luck doesnt know, hasnt don wnythin g... So we try to contact the mother of halflings god - the roll sucks so best we can glean is that she wasn't connected with it either... A dead end... [Some of the other players were grumpy at this point, one mentioning the whole thing was a [Minotaur's solid waste product] they lhad looked it up and the campaign had no negatives attached to my irreverant hydration, the table the DM used had shown my roll actually giving me a positive outcome, until cherry -picked to a nearby result, tthat DM tacked on the magical coma, and fabricated the down-leveling as there was nothing that causes a loss of levels, short of -1 when you die. I agtee and thank him, but mention its hthe DMs campaign, its within his right to make sure bitrary changes and DMs have the hardest job, and final say.. just happy that we were still able to get together for our Friday Night Gaming ritual, even if virtual... Blahblah happy stuff... I was enjoying it im a masochistic nihilistic way... Well, we get to the final arch of the final chapter... Intellect devourers... I do rath well on my rolls until near the end of battle, where one goes in for a mental enack of lvl 1 goodness and my save doesn't quite make the cut. Next round save is at disadvantage which I failed (due to ddisadvantage) Level 1 Dandy'e intellect has been devoured. Slain on the spot without a way to revive short of a wish spell ora high level itual magic ... The party forges on, and in the last battle doesn't do so well - our Bard dies, but still has a brain so they can be resurrected. The rest of the group, down two members, is pretty much toast until the DM story-modes their success (it was close, a few of the bad rolls near the end were retcon'd)... After the narrow ?victory? the group makes it back to town. Yadda yadda bare com s bqck with -1 level, somehow using our connections they get Lvl 1 Dandy brought back as well. So we hit the final milestone and 🔔ding, leaving the party as lvl 7s, bard level 6, Dandy level 2... A long, fun campaign was derailed and turned into a frustrating and wholly unsatisfying end (saved by retcon the following week doesn't sit well, and the hand-me-down final rewards and level ups for characters being immediately archived... Meh, who freaking cares? But... !!! Dandy is a legitimate level 2 character with plenty of gold, two or three rares, and a handful of top notch unncommons, commendations, fame and renown, and is in the prime of his youtth, barely considered an adult ... A character which could be used in future low level campaigns... Who can also elect to take a different path in life when reclaiming levels 3-6... See? Its true... Dandy DOES always land on his feet, leading a charmed existence, favored by the gods... Even afte being subject of a griefing which ultimately killed the vibe for everyone in the final weeks of a 5-6 month long campaign.

I wish I had this word back with an old group. Would’ve saved a lot of time and it would have given me a way to call the other players out on their bullshit.

You'd think an in person game where the player being griefed or trolled can stand up and deck the griefer would naturally weed out the trolls, but reddit horror stories prove otherwise.

I hesitate to label the paladin-sorcerer story as griefing (given the limited details presented). Griefing, from a video game background, is done with the sole intent of ruining everyone else's fun, e.g. continually killing a quest NPC in order to force others to sit and wait. In the paladin-sorcerer story, it sounds like there was a legitimate roleplay reason for the conflict. Unless the paladin character was made with this specific goal in mind, I would not consider it griefing - just a very poorly handled PvP situation. Saying conflicts between characters' ideals should never happen is hindering roleplay and character development. But at the same time, characters in a party who are fully incompatible have to either reconcile or be separated (e.g. one becomes an NPC, leaves the party, and the players reroll). If the PCs were a real-life group, it would have split up.

If my character dies because another player is being a prick and the DM just plays along with it my rerolled character is gonna be powergamed to the fucking heavens and I'm murdering the paladin.

The example of the new player attacking the sleeping wolf is not griefing. If it isn’t intentional it is not griefing.

In addition to greifing, can we also say "stop playing unoptimized characters."

I have a question about if this is bad/griefing I played as a 7 int dwarf cleric (we roled stats) and we were in a tomb of my ancestors searching for a ancient weapon in the kings coffin. We were in a fake coffin room with a coffin that appeared to be the kings but said in dwarvish (only i could read it) a poem that ended with "He defended his nation to his last breath" or something like that. I as a player was pretty certain this was a trap but kept that to myself and read it to the group then said out of character im gonna open the coffin does anyone say anything. No one did it was a trap and encounter we beat it and found the real coffin behind a secret door in the wall of this room. Is this griefing I knew it was a trap and activated it but my 7 int dwarf was obsessed with finding the weapon and has 7 int so prob would have fallen for it and I read the message out to the group. Am I in the wrong?

Reminds me when I retired a character in a game due them being largely useless due to how they were built mechanically in conjunction with the type of sessions the GM liked to run. So I built a new character (and therefore lower stats in comparison to the more veteran characters) to fill a role that we often found was missing in a lot of sessions, only for another player to purchase a helmet that basically game them the same abilities my character was built for combined with what their character could already do. Player even bragged, "I bought this helmet and I can now do everything you can and better!" That and other things the group did overall eventually made me leave and I honestly should have done it sooner.

My D&D group calls ourselves Gamers and Griefers lmao

If you're unsure whether another player is griefing you: If they justify their action which make the experience for you or the party worse by saying, "It's what my character would do...." They're not just griefing. They're inting.

I get that some people live in areas where their options for D&D tables are limited. Nevertheless, over time it is the optimal choice to leave tables where griefing and bullying are accepted. While it can be daunting to leave a table when you don’t know where your next option is coming from, you will be more motivated to find a new table if you are currently not playing at all. Meanwhile, the table you leave experiences actual consequences for their antisocial behaviour. If all non griefers/bullies do this, eventually what happens is: a) griefers and bullies are only able to find other griefers and bullies to play with b) with those players quarantined, other tables can have fun playing D&D and abiding by the social contract of the game c) the griefers and bullies either have a miserable time playing with each other and stop, or reform so that they can actually play with other people d) better D&D experiences for everyone (since no D&D is better than bad D&D)

This is tough because sometimes story greifing can also be a problem. Rogue characters are the stereotype for it, but that’s due to how crime is seen as part of the class. Who hasn’t dealt with a rogue who might be too pickpocket happy, or likes lying to the party or making deals behind the party’s back, only to make sure none of our party can do anything about it because they have a great deception check? Now the party has to clean up the rogues mess and it becomes unfun for everyone. Would that be considered greifing? It can be tough to say for sure

That DM that did the RBull arbitation needs to go to DM council. Both the polymorph and the subtle spell should've worked. Even leaving aside letting one PC do that to the other that's just unfair arbitation. I wish I met PCs like these honestly, any paladin tries that in my game will be met with nearly universal oath breach. Even the most lawful stupid deity will consider such tactics as backstabbing a ally in need to be disgraceful and worthy of scorn. Heck even evil deity's would disaprove, unless their entire thing is betrayal.

In Grade 7 I was the new kid in school and joined a D&D campaign with some guys I saw looking through the Top Secret box set at school. I will admit that playing a CG female ranger as a 12 year old boy in 1982, while the rest of the party are CE halfling thieves, was a poor choice. I thought it would be fun, I guess? They found me annoying (fair enough, I could tell you the stupid stuff I did but just assume they had their reasons) but kicking me out of the group by role playing the r*pe and murder of my character as the send-off left me dissociated and even lonelier than I was before. Hurrah for ADHD. I don't think I ever played D&D again until I picked it up a couple years ago to teach my nephew. I've had a fun and stressful time running a campaign for a bunch of adults I gathered from a Facebook group and I although I am going to take a break for a bit, it definitely helped wash the bad taste out of my mouth. Don't be mean to annoying players. Find another way to deal with the problem.

Yes I'm the type of player to fire bolt web... as readied action for right before its duration ends, since we were going to loose it anyways.

i used to super anti-min max and would go out of my way to make bad builds or just builds purely for rp. one time we had just traveled super far and my character had to pull a cart, so i rp'd super tired. then just before a big combat, I thought it'd be funny if my character passed out from exhaustion. rest of the party barely survived before i woke up and helped out. from that point on i learned that my shitty builds and over the top rp moments don't only affect me, but the entire group as well. so now i relish in min maxing and just meta game or play the build sub-optimally when it's too busted

Can we talk about how some people get so "deeply committed" to a perspective? I've been shouted at for saying that barbarian rage also reduces magical physical damage and don't get me started on drow, whenever I even hint at wanting to play one there's this one guy who shouts: NO EVIL RACES" like dude, what did Faerun do to you?! There's other settings

I can't make this up. At the end when Gator said he stole Kobold's car, a car alarm went off in my neighborhood at that exact moment! I held my phone up to my ear to see if the alarm was coming from the video 😂

thx for sharing the story, i hope nobody has to suffer like that in games thats just not cool

It sucks, but you have to work with the group, and sometimes kick a player or leave the table.

Griefing is not intentionally sabotaging a party by playing as your character would. It's when there is MALICIOUS intent towards the other players/dm that makes it griefing.

I have had a couple people try to grief in my games, and one that targeted me specifically. Unfortunately for them, I have a better working knowledge of the game than most people (thanks autism!) and very strong personality under my reserved exterior (double thanks autism!). They thought I was easy pickings because I was friendly and chill and they removed themselves from my table quickly when I not only wouldn't let them push me around but actively protected the rest of the players (a couple of whom were relatively new and not confident) from their bullying. Stand up for yourself if you can. If you can't, have a friend who can do so for you. If you don't have a friend at the table who can stand up for you, then you're better off finding a new table; you should always have friends who support you. You deserve it.

I have a question, or rather, I would like to ask the internet for advice. Me and my friends have started playing recently (sub-10 sessions in), and one of us, a melee build paladin, has problem with our party composition, because apart from him, we have a beastmaster ranger with longbow, a gloomstalker ranger with light/hand crossbow, a wizard and an undead warlock. The paladin player does not like that he is the "only tank" for the party and gets hit, though we only had 2 people go unconscious, those being both rangers. It is not really a gamebreaking problem, as a lot of fights we do are asymmetric, ambushes and similar weird stuff, but it is an issue I would like to solve, for his sake and ours.

I think letting Gator finish the videos is optimal.

Keep up the great work!

I comment so Kobold can animate more often. Also, Gator have stolen your car.

Dropped a table last week due to that

I think for the story you shared it is a matter of discussing which characters are gonna play in the party before the game even starts. Some people want to play the super lawful paladin that has some story against demons or whatever, when someone shows up with a demon character, OF COURSE things aren't gonna work out. Expecting the paladin player to change his character entirely isn't reasonable either, characters should be shared and discussed before the game starts if you wanna stop that from happening.

The first time I used my turn undead ability as a cleric, and all the undead ran away, my fellow players all took their opportunity attacks as the skeletons left their range, immediately undoing what I'd done. But it went like you described - I explained to them how the ability works, they got it and stopped doing it in the future. Never assume malicious intent when it could easily just be a misunderstanding.

I play with a bunch of new players which tend to make suboptimal decissions. I think that is fine as long as they survive and learn something, which they do. There were a couple of moments, where I had to remind them of the consequences, but in general I do not like it, if people discuss their turns with one another. It slows down combat, makes the game to easy and gives an unrealistic experience of a fast pass fight. Outside the combat we can discuss any optimization in character or out of character.

Oof played with a monk like that, they would not let anyone else do anything fun or exciting during combat because they were constantly in the aoe for spells and refused to disengage. The expectation is every combat someone casts haste on them and lets them bonk everything to death. I feel bad for our rogue cause casting haste on them would actually be better than hasting the monk due to the double sneak attack shenanigans. The monk gets an AC buff they don’t need and a single extra attack. The rogue who’s ac is like 3 lower than the monk gets another 6d6 from sneak attack alone. As bard I’ve just started casting spells with them in the aoe. Most of them are dex saves anyway so it not a big deal while they are hasted.

Oh no Kobold your car!

I feel like "It's what my character would do!" should always be followed by ", if you're okay with that?" instead of an exclamation point ("!"). I mean, sure, maybe my character wants to do surprise violence, or give another character a smooch, or throw a pie at the monarch. However, I prefer it if my fellow players have a say in that, can pick up on it, and put their hand on mine to remind me now is not the time, avoid the surprise smooch if they're not feeling it, or snatch the pie because that is a terrible waste of a good pie and you should at least let them have a slice of the pie before you start the revolution. 😂 It's a social game, try not to make others feel unwelcome or uncomfortable. It really brings the mood down!

Yeah uh… if it’s not deliberately intended to spoil other players enjoyment by intentionally playing in a disruptive or aggravating way, it’s not griefing. I think the intent is what’s important there. Also, if we’re saying that not building optimal characters is fine, then why is not playing optimally not fine?

"Lawful stupid" can work... IF the DM and players understand this is a character flaw that will need to be changed or "redeemed" through story.

Love you sruff and use some of you vids in my servers code of conduct

Yesterday we fought 3 enemies as a party of 6. I casted (cast?) Web on top of two enemies and two allies, one ally was down making dex saves. Was that griefing? I thought the monk had pretty good chances of making that save, the two enemies were casters. He didn`t tho and had a round with disadvantage. After the 2 enemies made the save I just dropped concentration.

Omg kobold kickstarter love💖

Left a game I wanted to stay with after being sabotaged. The rest of the group and the DM did nothing. It’s just people being shitty, and F them. Don’t waste time on assholes, your time is worth more than that.

Ok, but I feel like if your paladin sees your warlock doing some evil acts like stealing, aiding the enemy, or harming innocent npcs, and you step in, it's the warlock's fault. If the warlock didn't behave like an enemy, then he wouldn't get treated like one

Stop yelling at me.

Yay.. kobold quest!

Are you going to be in the Kobold Quest book?

i keep accidentally griefing the party with fog cloud. example: we encounter a bunch of enemies, on one side are melee fighters, on the other side are archers, i decide i'm going to put up a fog cloud right where all those archers are so the fighters can attack the other fighters without being waylayed by arrows...the fighters decide they are going to attack both of the groups...i can't fog cloud anyone without also fogging my allies...i still cloud the archers because i don't want to get peppered with arrows but the ally in the cloud with the archers is angry. another time, same thing, we are in a canyon there are sheer walls on both sides, the fighters are over on one side fighting someone and getting peppered with arrows, i make it pretty clear i'm going to put a fog cloud over by the archers, before my turn comes the rogue with his slippers of spiderclimb runs down the cliff, across the canyon, up the other cliff, and i'm just like "you had warning" and put up the cloud anyways.

True. Just true

while i may be an "optimizer" i try to avoid meta builds like coffeelock or human/half elf champion fighter. i prefer to do builds that could be considered meme builds. i have a teleporting barbarian, a bunny illusionist, a pyromaniac sorcerer who prefers point blank annihilation. i have a ranger who is better at melee than a fighter, and a fighter who is better at range than a ranger. my only true "meta" builds are a dragonborn vengeance paladin and a tabaxi speedmonk with like 5 different ways to boost his speed to mach fuck.

I think there's a lot of grey areas with these. On face value the first story seems awful but if a player is doing evil acts in a good party then you do kind of need to stop and say to everyone, "Either we have intra-party conflict or you are basically telling me to change my character without telling me - which might be fine - but let's be open about it."

Should do a video on the perfect session zero!

I dont think any of those examples are griefing, griefing has to be done very maliciously, not because you're dumb or just make a mistake. For example party is fighting boss and every time they attack him one player heals the boss, and when asked why and they give an answer of "i dont care" or "its fun" that is griefing. Casting fireball in a small room with your entire party in it for lols is griefing. A griefer usually does something so blatantly assholish for no reason or explanation that it would be baffling if they weren't kicked immediately from the table or have their character killed outright.

Theres a zealus barbarian in my party and his character really hates they my wizard is messing around with biomancy and creating homunculuses. Ita fine tho eventually it will come to ahead and ill beat him up in game 😂

All my homies HATE Gnomies! Good grief!

Oh, it's a gamer term, i didn't get that at all 🐊, I'm not a native speaker, so for me, griefing = sadness for a loss 😅

Yip-yipyip!

thank